Rumors Thread

[Jimmybigrigs69 371]

@kipwinger @Dabura

Every conversation about this I've seen (not just here) always boils down to the same thing:

"But muh prospect pool"

No one doubts Yzerman has built a strong one. And if you're content to continue to be a patient and wait for the kiddos, you're probably smarter than I, because that's obviously "the plan".

What annoys me about this line of thinking is that it's the same reductive line of thinking thats persisted for the last 10+ years. DONT WORRY FELLAS, JUST WAIT TILL Pulkkinen, Backman, Sproul, Jurco, Frk, Athanasiou, Mantha, Svechnikov, Cholowski, Rasmussen, Petruzelli, Veleno, and Zadina GET HERE... then we'll be good. 

My point =

1. The grass doesnt always get greener. SY is about to select his 7th Wings draft class. Of his picks, so far he's graduated a 4th overall, two 6th overalls, and an 8th overall. That's it. Many would argue that's par for the course. Until some of his other picks start making an impact, it's difficult to argue that our prospect pool is something to hedge our bets on. And the last 10+ years of prospect hype and subsequent let downs, is evidence why we shouldnt give Yzerman an automatic win based on prospect hype. 

2. This argument (excuse) has a timeline. And the pressure to produce on Yzerman is building... naturally. Patience will run out. I dunno that he has a leash long enough from the fanbase to make it another 3-4 seasons without some pretty serious results. Tik tok. Tik tok. 

3. Development. Doesnt matter how filled up your pool is if you cant teach the kids to swim. Again, we've only graduated top10 picks so far... but further, I question the enviroment/situation we've established to incubate these prospects. GR is GR, but Detroit is a mess. SY held onto a legitmately bad head coach in Blashill for quite a while... only to install another mediocre/bad coach in Lalonde... only to panic replace him midseason with a coach pulled off his couch. These are our teachers/leaders/developers for our premium prospects? And now we have a lockerroom being led by a depressed fed-up captain and an ex-superstar who quits on coaches midseason. I'm not sure Yzerman understands the enviroment he's cultivated. 

[kipwinger 8,756]

2 hours ago, Jimmybigrigs69 said:

@kipwinger @Dabura

Every conversation about this I've seen (not just here) always boils down to the same thing:

"But muh prospect pool"

No one doubts Yzerman has built a strong one. And if you're content to continue to be a patient and wait for the kiddos, you're probably smarter than I, because that's obviously "the plan".

What annoys me about this line of thinking is that it's the same reductive line of thinking thats persisted for the last 10+ years. DONT WORRY FELLAS, JUST WAIT TILL Pulkkinen, Backman, Sproul, Jurco, Frk, Athanasiou, Mantha, Svechnikov, Cholowski, Rasmussen, Petruzelli, Veleno, and Zadina GET HERE... then we'll be good. 

My point =

1. The grass doesnt always get greener. SY is about to select his 7th Wings draft class. Of his picks, so far he's graduated a 4th overall, two 6th overalls, and an 8th overall. That's it. Many would argue that's par for the course. Until some of his other picks start making an impact, it's difficult to argue that our prospect pool is something to hedge our bets on. And the last 10+ years of prospect hype and subsequent let downs, is evidence why we shouldnt give Yzerman an automatic win based on prospect hype. 

2. This argument (excuse) has a timeline. And the pressure to produce on Yzerman is building... naturally. Patience will run out. I dunno that he has a leash long enough from the fanbase to make it another 3-4 seasons without some pretty serious results. Tik tok. Tik tok. 

3. Development. Doesnt matter how filled up your pool is if you cant teach the kids to swim. Again, we've only graduated top10 picks so far... but further, I question the enviroment/situation we've established to incubate these prospects. GR is GR, but Detroit is a mess. SY held onto a legitmately bad head coach in Blashill for quite a while... only to install another mediocre/bad coach in Lalonde... only to panic replace him midseason with a coach pulled off his couch. These are our teachers/leaders/developers for our premium prospects? And now we have a lockerroom being led by a depressed fed-up captain and an ex-superstar who quits on coaches midseason. I'm not sure Yzerman understands the enviroment he's cultivated. 

It's not about "being content" with it. It's just obvious that's what's going on. When Larkin, Seider, Raymond, Dcat, Edvinsson, Kasper, etc. get us to the playoffs...then we'll go big game hunting in FA to add the elite talent. And it's not like that's a crazy idea. Elite offensive guys like Rantanen and Marner are available almost every year.

My personal preference would be to go get Pettersson right now while the price is (presumably) low. I saw some hockey media guy said the other day that Pettersson isn't well thought of around the league. Good. Buy low. I think you'd have to do something around an unprotected 1st OR Danielson but not both. That would give us this to build around:

???-Larkin-Raymond

Dcat-Pettersson-???

Sodorblom-Kasper-???

Compher-Copp-Ras

 

???-Seider

Edvinsson-???

Chiarot-???

 

And before we even think about UFA we have Mazur, MBN, Plante, Lombardi, Buchelnikov, ASP, Wallinder, Buium, Finnie, Cossa, and Augustine (I might be missing some too)  to plug some of those holes. THAT'S a pretty solid place to build from. Add Provorov/Gavrikov and Will Cuylle from outside and you've got a genuine contender IMO.

[LeftWinger 5,132]

Soderblom and Johansson are also Yzerman's picks that are full-time NHL players. He drafts well, very well! Need to win some UFA signings! Well, he did win the Kane UFA signing. 

[Jimmybigrigs69 371]

3 hours ago, kipwinger said:

It's not about "being content" with it. It's just obvious that's what's going on. When Larkin, Seider, Raymond, Dcat, Edvinsson, Kasper, etc. get us to the playoffs...then we'll go big game hunting in FA to add the elite talent. And it's not like that's a crazy idea. Elite offensive guys like Rantanen and Marner are available almost every year.

My personal preference would be to go get Pettersson right now while the price is (presumably) low. I saw some hockey media guy said the other day that Pettersson isn't well thought of around the league. Good. Buy low. I think you'd have to do something around an unprotected 1st OR Danielson but not both. That would give us this to build around:

???-Larkin-Raymond

Dcat-Pettersson-???

Sodorblom-Kasper-???

Compher-Copp-Ras

 

???-Seider

Edvinsson-???

Chiarot-???

 

And before we even think about UFA we have Mazur, MBN, Plante, Lombardi, Buchelnikov, ASP, Wallinder, Buium, Finnie, Cossa, and Augustine (I might be missing some too)  to plug some of those holes. THAT'S a pretty solid place to build from. Add Provorov/Gavrikov and Will Cuylle from outside and you've got a genuine contender IMO.

This is kinda my point. 

Is it a pretty solid place to pull from? Many have argued in the past the same thing, and almost every single of those guys didnt even come close to working out...

So when I see "but our prospect pool so good" in reponse to angry fans, I don't really buy that as a valid excuse. Until those kids actually play I'm not sold.

What I'd like to see is some creativity and action by our GM to address some very obvious current problems. Whether that's getting Pettersson or Marner, or getting tougher, or shaking up leadership... i dont care. But more nothing TDLs and summers of signing bad vets to bloated contracts, and hunting for our 200th goalie in 5 years, and I will call it firing time. 

[Dabura 12,232]

16 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Article just dropped this week that said Larkin had the 2nd hardest forward usage IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE. Dude does yeoman’s work, and was injured at the 4 nations, and still scored 30 goals and 70 points. Most years he scores 80+ with that usage. As we get more depth that usage will ease and he’ll score 90+ on a winning team. Where does the depth come from? Maybe the 20 year old 2C who just broke out this season under McClellan. Raymond will score the same, 80-90 pts. Cat will score 35+ goals. Ed and Seider will lock down the back end. All we need is for our goalies to pan out and our core looks good. Then we just need to flesh out the lineup with quality depth and thankfully we have a ton of pieces to make it happen. 
 

Every team would be better with a MacKinnon or McDavid for sure. But lots of teams are winning playoff games right now without those guys so I don’t think the lack of a premium piece is our issue.

But surely you get the concern, right?

FORWARD

Larkin's not getting any younger, so we're gonna need Kasper to actually be every bit as good as we're hoping he is (and then some).

DeBrincat and Raymond are good.

That's our forward core at present.

Is it good? Sure. Is it "This is how you build a perennial contender" good? I think that's up for debate. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it), no amount of debate's gonna settle the question right now. We need more data.

In terms of forward depth...

Soderblom could be Franzen, but he's probably not. Which is fine. But we don't have Datsyuk and Zetterberg, so the need for each of our forwards to hit their ceilings is a bit greater than it would've been back when we were a powerhouse.

Berggren's not the impact winger we'd hoped he'd be.

Rasmussen has potential to be an x-factor shutdown guy, but more often than not, he leaves me wanting.

The jury's completely out on Mazur, Danielson, and the Norwegian. That's not really a knock on them or even Yzerman. We just don't know yet.

We can and should and will use trades and free agency to fill holes. But...so will every other team in the league.

DEFENSE

Seider and Edvinsson are cornerstones, which is great. But we're gonna need more.

I really hope ASP is a beast. He doesn't need to be a great all-around defenseman, since we have the poster boys for that in Seider and Edvinsson (maybe Johansson too). But he does need to be able to more than hold his own in a top-four role.

I'm not expecting anything from any of our other D prospects.

GOAL

Total crapshoot.

[kipwinger 8,756]

On 4/30/2025 at 2:00 AM, Dabura said:

But surely you get the concern, right?

FORWARD

Larkin's not getting any younger, so we're gonna need Kasper to actually be every bit as good as we're hoping he is (and then some).

DeBrincat and Raymond are good.

That's our forward core at present.

Is it good? Sure. Is it "This is how you build a perennial contender" good? I think that's up for debate. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it), no amount of debate's gonna settle the question right now. We need more data.

In terms of forward depth...

Soderblom could be Franzen, but he's probably not. Which is fine. But we don't have Datsyuk and Zetterberg, so the need for each of our forwards to hit their ceilings is a bit greater than it would've been back when we were a powerhouse.

Berggren's not the impact winger we'd hoped he'd be.

Rasmussen has potential to be an x-factor shutdown guy, but more often than not, he leaves me wanting.

The jury's completely out on Mazur, Danielson, and the Norwegian. That's not really a knock on them or even Yzerman. We just don't know yet.

We can and should and will use trades and free agency to fill holes. But...so will every other team in the league.

DEFENSE

Seider and Edvinsson are cornerstones, which is great. But we're gonna need more.

I really hope ASP is a beast. He doesn't need to be a great all-around defenseman, since we have the poster boys for that in Seider and Edvinsson (maybe Johansson too). But he does need to be able to more than hold his own in a top-four role.

I'm not expecting anything from any of our other D prospects.

GOAL

Total crapshoot.

I don’t really get the concern actually. I just watched the Jets win the President’s Trophy with a 30+ year old 1C who’s not THAT much better than Larkin (if at all). Kyle Conner is just Lucas Raymond with a few more years of development under his belt. Josh Morressy isn’t any better than Seider. Edvinsson is actually better than any other defender Winnipeg has. Who’s their 2C? Adam Lowrey? Gabe Vilardi? 
 

But Kip, what about the goalie ? We certainly don’t have Hellebyuk but goaltending is actually a strength of our organization going forward. So maybe we don’t get a superstar there but I’m as confident in our goalie pipeline as you could possibly be given that they’re still prospects. So again, not concerned. 
 

Here’s the main difference between us and them. Their best players are 3-5 years older than ours. And that experience counts for a lot. Are rookies Kasper, Edvinsson, Sodorblom and Johansson as good as they’re going to be? Not even close. You think Marco Kasper just had a career year at age 20? Of course not. When he’s 23 he’ll score 30 goals. Same is true to a lesser extent with Seider and Raymond. Lucas will score 90+ points really soon. Seider will score 60+ soon too? Why haven’t they already? Because they’re young and our team sucked. That’s why. 
 

Im not concerned, Im impatient. Im tired of losing and I wish SY would stop shooting us in the foot instead of investing in the team. He shouted out Montreal and St. Louis in his presser and failed to mention that both those teams invested significant assets to get players from outside their organizations. Suzuki, Laine, Buchnevich, Bromberg, Holloway, Newhook, Dach, Anderson, Schenn, Fowler. Those are good to great players that those organizations ponied but assets to acquire. Our GM has done that ONCE (Debrincat). Otherwise all he’s done is bring in junk to bridge the gap. But it’s kinda irrelevant now because all his young talent is finally arriving on the roster and most of them are as good (or better) than advertised.

Edited May 1 by kipwinger

[town123 235]

This today pretty much confirms it.   Any clues as to what it would cost to get him?

 

Tampa Bay Lightning general manager Julien BriseBois believes it is unlikely that Isaac Howard will sign with the team.

[Jimmybigrigs69 371]

14 hours ago, town123 said:

This today pretty much confirms it.   Any clues as to what it would cost to get him?

 

Tampa Bay Lightning general manager Julien BriseBois believes it is unlikely that Isaac Howard will sign with the team.

It'll take something between a 2nd - 4th round pick. Top Dmen like Adam Fox went for a 2nd + 3rd, but forwards usually go for like just a 3rd or something similar.

I'd say give TBL Bergrren, but they have no room for a forward, which is probably one of the reasons Howard isnt signing. They need RHD... send them Tuomisto or Anton Johansson + 4-6 pick. This team needs a man named Howard. 

[town123 235]

I would hope you're right, but it seems a little light considering McGroarty/Yager.

 

How about Tom Willander while were at it.

Edited May 3 by town123

[AtlantaHotWings 1,126]

3 hours ago, Jimmybigrigs69 said:

It'll take something between a 2nd - 4th round pick. Top Dmen like Adam Fox went for a 2nd + 3rd, but forwards usually go for like just a 3rd or something similar.

I'd say give TBL Bergrren, but they have no room for a forward, which is probably one of the reasons Howard isnt signing. They need RHD... send them Tuomisto or Anton Johansson + 4-6 pick. This team needs a man named Howard. 

Based on the bolded the hot dog vendors just doubled their orders for next year not realizing its not Jimmy but another Howard.

[LeftWinger 5,132]

On 5/2/2025 at 5:31 PM, town123 said:

This today pretty much confirms it.   Any clues as to what it would cost to get him?

 

Tampa Bay Lightning general manager Julien BriseBois believes it is unlikely that Isaac Howard will sign with the team.

I'd give a prospect, a 3rd and a 7th. If we acquired him at this draft, we have those assets available. I'd even send them Berggren instead of the prospect if they wanted him. I would definitely pay up to acquire him.

[Jimmybigrigs69 371]

10 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

I'd give a prospect, a 3rd and a 7th. If we acquired him at this draft, we have those assets available. I'd even send them Berggren instead of the prospect if they wanted him. I would definitely pay up to acquire him.

Agreed.

However, Perbix is really the only piece departing Tampa. And you can ask any Bolts fan; they need a RHD to replace him. And from what I've gathered, they want someone that can provide more offense than Perbix did. 

Therefore, IMO, I think it would be prudent to offer them Gustafsson at 50% retained as well. 

To DET: Negotiating rights to Isaac Howard and Nick Perbix

To TBL: Gustafsson (50% retained) + 3rd + 7th + Negotiating rights to RFA Tuomisto

Why this trade is perfect: Gustafsson @ $1mil is no risk for them. He can fill that limited minutes 6th spot hole for them, and he fits that offensive style they want, and he's a cheap option that they can easily waive to the AHL if necessary. If I was Tampa I would pencil Gus in at the 7 spot and then go hunting for a better option at the 6th spot this summer. But if you cant find a better guy for that spot at the right price, or they dont workout, *whew* "at least we picked up Gustafsson".

Then you also get a backup for your backup in Tuomisto, a guy you can sign cheap to play in the AHL, and, @ 25 years old, he can possibly take over the reigns in the 6/7 spot from Gustafsson in 1 years time. 

For us, saves another 1mil to go big game hunting this summer by unloading Gus, and a younger and a much better RHD in perbix... if we can get a deal done. 

Lastly, when it comes to Isaac Howard, we'd of course have to confirm he wants to sign here. Which should be easy to do with our connections in the MSU program. And, we'll have to be willing to give him Tarsenko's spot in the lineup next year (2026/27). 

[LeftWinger 5,132]

9 hours ago, Jimmybigrigs69 said:

Agreed.

However, Perbix is really the only piece departing Tampa. And you can ask any Bolts fan; they need a RHD to replace him. And from what I've gathered, they want someone that can provide more offense than Perbix did. 

Therefore, IMO, I think it would be prudent to offer them Gustafsson at 50% retained as well. 

To DET: Negotiating rights to Isaac Howard and Nick Perbix

To TBL: Gustafsson (50% retained) + 3rd + 7th + Negotiating rights to RFA Tuomisto

Why this trade is perfect: Gustafsson @ $1mil is no risk for them. He can fill that limited minutes 6th spot hole for them, and he fits that offensive style they want, and he's a cheap option that they can easily waive to the AHL if necessary. If I was Tampa I would pencil Gus in at the 7 spot and then go hunting for a better option at the 6th spot this summer. But if you cant find a better guy for that spot at the right price, or they dont workout, *whew* "at least we picked up Gustafsson".

Then you also get a backup for your backup in Tuomisto, a guy you can sign cheap to play in the AHL, and, @ 25 years old, he can possibly take over the reigns in the 6/7 spot from Gustafsson in 1 years time. 

For us, saves another 1mil to go big game hunting this summer by unloading Gus, and a younger and a much better RHD in perbix... if we can get a deal done. 

Lastly, when it comes to Isaac Howard, we'd of course have to confirm he wants to sign here. Which should be easy to do with our connections in the MSU program. And, we'll have to be willing to give him Tarsenko's spot in the lineup next year (2026/27). 

I'd do that trade, but I would offer more as well. I want to make sure I get Howard, and nobody out-bids me. Nice thing is, we have some parts here that are expendable. And I'm talking about Rasmussen, Tarasenko, Berggren.... because not only do I want Howard, and I like your acquisition of Perbix's UFA rights, I want Gourde's UFA rights. 

to TPA : Rasmussen, Gustafsson, Tuomisto RFA rights, 3rd, 7th

to DET : Howard rights, Perbix UFA rights, Gourde UFA rights

Like you said, Howard does one more season at MSU and get Tarasenko's roster spot in 26/27. Then Perbix and Gourde bring in experience and familiarity with Yzerman, and, I feel, making the team better. Maybe 3 year deals each?

Edited May 5 by LeftWinger

[AtlantaHotWings 1,126]

4 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

I'd do that trade, but I would offer more as well. I want to make sure I get Howard, and nobody out-bids me. Nice thing is, we have some parts here that are expendable. And I'm talking about Rasmussen, Tarasenko, Berggren.... because not only do I want Howard, and I like your acquisition of Perbix's UFA rights, I want Gourde's UFA rights. 

to TPA : Rasmussen, Gustafsson, Tuomisto RFA rights, 3rd, 7th

to DET : Howard rights, Perbix UFA rights, Gourde UFA rights

Like you said, Howard does one more season at MSU and get Tarasenko's roster spot in 26/27. Then Perbix and Gourde bring in experience and familiarity with Yzerman, and, I feel, making the team better. Maybe 3 year deals each?

So how do we get this idea in front of Stevie? 

[town123 235]

A good chunk of teams will be lining trade offers to the Nucks and Bolts for sure.    Hopefully SY has an insiders edge with TBay, assuming the rumour of Howard wanting to team up again with his best pal Frank Nazar isn't true or that limiting.

[Jimmybigrigs69 371]

11 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

I'd do that trade, but I would offer more as well. I want to make sure I get Howard, and nobody out-bids me. Nice thing is, we have some parts here that are expendable. And I'm talking about Rasmussen, Tarasenko, Berggren.... because not only do I want Howard, and I like your acquisition of Perbix's UFA rights, I want Gourde's UFA rights. 

to TPA : Rasmussen, Gustafsson, Tuomisto RFA rights, 3rd, 7th

to DET : Howard rights, Perbix UFA rights, Gourde UFA rights

Like you said, Howard does one more season at MSU and get Tarasenko's roster spot in 26/27. Then Perbix and Gourde bring in experience and familiarity with Yzerman, and, I feel, making the team better. Maybe 3 year deals each?

I'm not sure TBL can afford Ras's cap hit. 

I'm also not handing Gourde a 3 year deal. Because of his age, but also because after this coming season we have to give Edvinsson a big contract. 

I would give Perbix 3 years though. Assuming ASP is two seasons in GR away from full time roster duty, much like Edvinsson (1 year overseas, 2 in GR), 3 years is perfect for him. 1 season of overlap between ASP and Perbix, then Perbix is expendable. 

To DET: Rights to Perbix, Gourde, and Howard

To TBL: Rights to Lyon + RFA rights to Berggren and Tuomisto + Gustafsson (50% retained) + 3rd + 7th

Then trade Rasmussen away in a seperate trade purely for picks, because we need the cap space. 

Award Gourde $4.5×1 and Perbix $4.5x3

Buyout Tarasenko and Holl because we need the cap space. 

Then go into UFA with Kane un-signed in order to hunt for Marner. Should be just enough cap space remaining to offer Marner $14×7 and bridge AJo and Soderblom. If Marner chooses elsewhere then circle back and re-sign Kane $4×1 and LHD Dimitri Orlov $7×1.

Debrincat - Larkin - Raymond

Kasper - Gourde - Marner/Kane

Soderblom - Copp - Compher

 Mazur - Danielson - Watson

Edvinsson - Seider

Chiarot - Perbix

Orlov/Buium/Wallinder - Johansson

[LeftWinger 5,132]

15 hours ago, town123 said:

A good chunk of teams will be lining trade offers to the Nucks and Bolts for sure.    Hopefully SY has an insiders edge with TBay, assuming the rumour of Howard wanting to team up again with his best pal Frank Nazar isn't true or that limiting.

That would suck to lose him to Chicago... they have the 3rd OA pick too? How the hell are we falling behind these teams in prospects? Well, we may not be in real life, but it just seems like it. We need to ditch some contracts ASAP and get younger!

I hope Yzerman is on the phone with Brisbois (and Howards agent) right now!!!

Edited May 6 by LeftWinger

[kipwinger 8,756]

Is Isaac Howard actually good? His calling card is his offense, which has been okay in the NCAA but nothing amazing. It took him 3 seasons to best Dylan Larkin’s 19 year old campaign in the NCAA.

Edited May 6 by kipwinger

[LeftWinger 5,132]

53 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Is Isaac Howard actually good? His calling card is his offense, which has been okay in the NCAA but nothing amazing. It took him 3 seasons to best Dylan Larkin’s 19 year old campaign in the NCAA.

Most experts agree he has become a top prospect. I think it's worth the trade gamble, if he'd sign with Detroit that is.

[town123 235]

TBay will probably deal Howard at the draft since waiting for him to be a free agent will only get them the 31st pick in the 2nd round of the 2027 draft.   (comp)

 

I like the proposed deals from Lefty and BigRigs

[TLGTrico 661]

3 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

That would suck to lose him to Chicago... they have the 3rd OA pick too? How the hell are we falling behind these teams in prospects? Well, we may not be in real life, but it just seems like it. We need to ditch some contracts ASAP and get younger!

I hope Yzerman is on the phone with Brisbois (and Howards agent) right now!!!

We're falling behind because we have one top five pick during our rebuild

[town123 235]

Gary owes us.

[LeftWinger 5,132]

The problem is, Chris Ilitch is NOT Mike Ilitch. The NHL doesn't like Chris Ilitch, he does nothing for the sport or the growth of the league.

[Jimmybigrigs69 371]

Rumor out there that the Wings will sign SHL goalie Arvid Holm this offseason. 26 years old. Former Winnipeg draft pick. Just won SHL goalie of the year. 

[LeftWinger 5,132]

20 hours ago, Jimmybigrigs69 said:

Rumor out there that the Wings will sign SHL goalie Arvid Holm this offseason. 26 years old. Former Winnipeg draft pick. Just won SHL goalie of the year. 

I saw that too... Yzerman is always trying to find the diamond overseas, but you'd think if he was good, he'd already be in the NHL. I guess we'll see... I don't remember a UFA player he has signed from overseas that has worked out though.