Official 2018 Off Season *Rebuild* Thread

[LeftWinger 4,965]

This July 1, outside of making a run at JT,  there really isn't anyone that I can see Holland signing from outside the organization.  And really, this will be one of the first UFA day's that I actually have nobody I am hoping for, of course unless we get JT, but, ya....weird times!

[The 91 of Ryans 3,015]

2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

This July 1, outside of making a run at JT,  there really isn't anyone that I can see Holland signing from outside the organization.  And really, this will be one of the first UFA day's that I actually have nobody I am hoping for, of course unless we get JT, but, ya....weird times!

John Carlson's made me a believer. I think he's a legit #1 D and, rebuild or not, would have zero issue with Kenny giving him 7 x 8. ZERO. 

 

edit to add: it totally won't happen or anything, just saying that I like him. 

Edited May 31, 2018 by The 91 of Ryans

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

[krsmith17 7,191]

11 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

John Carlson's made me a believer. I think he's a legit #1 D and, rebuild or not, would have zero issue with Kenny giving him 7 x 8. ZERO. 

edit to add: it totally won't happen or anything, just saying that I like him. 

I've always been a big fan of Carlson, and felt he was extremely underrated. I'd love to sign him this summer, however, I don't think I'd go near that contract. I'd give him $6.5-7M for 5 years. Of course he likely wouldn't accept that because there will be better offers on the table, but I don't think this team can afford any more big dollar, long term contracts, even if it's to add a player of Carlson's caliber.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Athletic Article (Paywall)

Summary:

• Detroit willing to move down from 6 spot

• Packaging Vegas's 1st and a 2nd to move up likely moves us into the 18-20 range

• Kotkaniemi is one of Detroit's targets

• Focus is on center and defense, making it less likely we take Wahlstrom or Tkachuk

• Bridge deal with Mantha is close, likely two years and less than $4million AAV.

• Talks with Green and his agent firm. Since Mantha is going to be signed pretty cheap they probably don't mind bringing back Green.

• Talks with AA and his agent were positive, but feelings are his deal is further behind in the process than Mantha's

• Xavier Ouellet is being shopped. Ouellet wants a fresh start and Detroit wants a spot for a young guy

 

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Athletic Article (Paywall)

Summary:

• Detroit willing to move down from 6 spot   -   It better be a damn good return if they move down. I don't think they will.

• Packaging Vegas's 1st and a 2nd to move up likely moves us into the 18-20 range   -   I'd do it if someone we really like falls.

• Kotkaniemi is one of Detroit's targets   -   Take one of the defensemen or Wahlstrom.

• Focus is on center and defense, making it less likely we take Wahlstrom or Tkachuk   -   Take one of the defensemen...

• Bridge deal with Mantha is close, likely two years and less than $4million AAV.   -   I'd prefer a long term contract, but we all knew it would be a bridge deal.

• Talks with Green and his agent firm.   -   I'm okay with bringing Green back, as long as it's a short term (1-2 year) deal.

• Talks with AA and his agent were positive, but feelings are his deal is further behind in the process than Mantha's   -   Trade Athanasiou in a package to move up into the middle of the 1st round.

• Xavier Ouellet is being shopped. Ouellet wants a fresh start and Detroit wants a spot for a young guy   -   Good

 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

6 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

 

To clarify the 3rd bullet, it says Kotkaniemi and the 4 Dmen (Bouchard, Hughes, Dobson, Boqvist) are Detroit's targets. My guess is Holland would like to trade off the vegas 1st and a 2nd to move up in order to take Kotkaniemi.

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

To clarify the 3rd bullet, it says Kotkaniemi and the 4 Dmen (Bouchard, Hughes, Dobson, Boqvist) are Detroit's targets. My guess is Holland would like to trade off the vegas 1st and a 2nd to move up in order to take Kotkaniemi.

Yeah, I read the article yesterday. I was going to post it, but was too lazy... Thanks for the talking points.

I'd be okay with trading up for Kotkaniemi if he falls to the late teens, but even then, I think I'd prefer to wait it out to see if Bokk or Kaut fall to us at 30. Or maybe trade the 30th and 67th to move up a few spots...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Listening to Horcoff talk about prospects on Red n White authority...

• Sounds like Hronek is #1 D prospect right now. Cholowski will have to come in and play very well in GR to prove he's number 1 and unseat Hronek from that spot.
• Sounds like Hicketts is definitely on the Red Wings next year. Now that he's had a taste the Wings wanna see if he can hold up during an 82 game season.
• The Wings love Kotkansalo's personality.
• Swedish coaches have almost exclusively used Gustav Lindstrom in defensive shutdown roles. The Wings think he has a lot more to offer than just a defensive mind. Red Wings will try to develop his offensive skills so he becomes a solid two-way Dman.
• Givani Smith needs to work on skating and conditioning if he's gonna be an NHL player
• Goalies are weird and take a lot of time to develop

[SwedeLundin77 460]

2 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Listening to Horcoff talk about prospects on Red n White authority...

• Sounds like Hronek is #1 D prospect right now. Cholowski will have to come in and play very well in GR to prove he's number 1 and unseat Hronek from that spot.
• Sounds like Hicketts is definitely on the Red Wings next year. Now that he's had a taste the Wings wanna see if he can hold up during an 82 game season.
• The Wings love Kotkansalo's personality.
• Swedish coaches have almost exclusively used Gustav Lindstrom in defensive shutdown roles. The Wings think he has a lot more to offer than just a defensive mind. Red Wings will try to develop his offensive skills so he becomes a solid two-way Dman.
• Givani Smith needs to work on skating and conditioning if he's gonna be an NHL player
• Goalies are weird and take a lot of time to develop

So Hronek is for sure in GR next season? I was really hoping he'd crack the lineup with Hicketts and we'd not waste money on Green again.
Kotkansalo should hopefully be a solid D-Man for us in a couple of seasons
Is Lindstrom playing in Sweden again, or coming over?
Smith is on the Griffins this fall, right?
Having been one, we goalies are a weird bunch

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

6 minutes ago, SwedeLundin77 said:

So Hronek is for sure in GR next season? I was really hoping he'd crack the lineup with Hicketts and we'd not waste money on Green again.
Kotkansalo should hopefully be a solid D-Man for us in a couple of seasons
Is Lindstrom playing in Sweden again, or coming over?
Smith is on the Griffins this fall, right?
Having been one, we goalies are a weird bunch

Sounds like Green will be re-signed and Hicketts will take Ouellet's spot. Hronek will be #1 call up unless Cholowski can steal that from him. The Wings rarely ever insert a new young player without that player first spending a year as the so call designated call up (Hicketts job last year). Hronek will probably get his first taste of NHL hockey this year.

Lindstrom is on loan to the Swedish team Frolunda next season

Smith will probs be a Griffin, but it sounded like they had some clear issues with his conditioning. Hopefully he works hard this summer.

Do you talk to your posts?

[SwedeLundin77 460]

38 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Sounds like Green will be re-signed and Hicketts will take Ouellet's spot. Hronek will be #1 call up unless Cholowski can steal that from him. The Wings rarely ever insert a new young player without that player first spending a year as the so call designated call up (Hicketts job last year). Hronek will probably get his first taste of NHL hockey this year.

Lindstrom is on loan to the Swedish team Frolunda next season

Smith will probs be a Griffin, but it sounded like they had some clear issues with his conditioning. Hopefully he works hard this summer.

Do you talk to your posts?

I have been known to give a pep talk from time to time... but nothing serious.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, SwedeLundin77 said:

So Hronek is for sure in GR next season? I was really hoping he'd crack the lineup with Hicketts and we'd not waste money on Green again.
Kotkansalo should hopefully be a solid D-Man for us in a couple of seasons
Is Lindstrom playing in Sweden again, or coming over?
Smith is on the Griffins this fall, right?
Having been one, we goalies are a weird bunch

 

1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Sounds like Green will be re-signed and Hicketts will take Ouellet's spot. Hronek will be #1 call up unless Cholowski can steal that from him. The Wings rarely ever insert a new young player without that player first spending a year as the so call designated call up (Hicketts job last year). Hronek will probably get his first taste of NHL hockey this year.

Lindstrom is on loan to the Swedish team Frolunda next season

Smith will probs be a Griffin, but it sounded like they had some clear issues with his conditioning. Hopefully he works hard this summer.

Do you talk to your posts?

I actually think keeping Hronek in GR is best for his development right now. He'll hopefully turn out to be more than a depth defenseman. If that's the case, then he needs big minutes over a lot of games against competition he can handle. He'll get that in GR. Not with the big boys. Bringing him up now either means he gets sheltered minutes or he gets absolutely destroyed by NHL competition considering who his D partners would be. Neither scenario would be good for his development IMO.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

49 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

 

I actually think keeping Hronek in GR is best for his development right now. He'll hopefully turn out to be more than a depth defenseman. If that's the case, then he needs big minutes over a lot of games against competition he can handle. He'll get that in GR. Not with the big boys. Bringing him up now either means he gets sheltered minutes or he gets absolutely destroyed by NHL competition considering who his D partners would be. Neither scenario would be good for his development IMO.

I tend to agree. He had a great first season in the minors. Now let's see if he can build on it while playing 10 or so games with Detroit. If he does well, he'll more than likely follow Hicketts on to the team in fall 2019.

[krsmith17 7,191]

4 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I tend to agree. He had a great first season in the minors. Now let's see if he can build on it while playing 10 or so games with Detroit. If he does well, he'll more than likely follow Hicketts on to the team in fall 2019.

Hronek AND Cholowski need to get some reps in with the Wings at some point this season. I expect them both to make the team in 2019-20.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

6 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Hronek AND Cholowski need to get some reps in with the Wings at some point this season. I expect them both to make the team in 2019-20.

CHOLOWSKI CAN WAIT HIS TURN

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

5 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Sounds like Green will be re-signed and Hicketts will take Ouellet's spot. Hronek will be #1 call up unless Cholowski can steal that from him. The Wings rarely ever insert a new young player without that player first spending a year as the so call designated call up (Hicketts job last year). Hronek will probably get his first taste of NHL hockey this year.

Lindstrom is on loan to the Swedish team Frolunda next season

Smith will probs be a Griffin, but it sounded like they had some clear issues with his conditioning. Hopefully he works hard this summer.

Do you talk to your posts?

As long as he stays out of Starbuck's bathrooms, he should be fine.

 

[The 91 of Ryans 3,015]

10 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

As long as he stays out of Starbuck's bathrooms, he should be fine.

 

zat supposed to mean? 

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

And you'd offer Karlsson 8 years at 6.75 million, and he likely wouldn't take it.  And you'd offer Drew Doughty 8 years at 6 million, and he likely wouldn't take it.  And you'd offer John Tavares 8 years at 5.5 million, and he likely wouldn't take it.  

 

You make Ken Holland look like Merlin, KRSmith.   

 

Say something that DOESN'T make me say "no sh$t" as I read it!

To be fair, Carlson isn't in the same league as those you chose to list. Not until he repeats this year a few more times. I'm not ready to pay him superstar dough.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Wheelchairsuperhero

[LeftWinger 4,965]

Tavares more like 8 years $10.5M per.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

3 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Tavares more like 8 years $10.5M per.

JT will only get that from NYI cuz only they can sign him to an 8 year deal. That extra year allows them to pay him a slightly less AAV. If he signs anywhere else,he is getting 11-12, I gare-own-tee.

[krsmith17 7,191]

4 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

And you'd offer Karlsson 8 years at 6.75 million, and he likely wouldn't take it.  And you'd offer Drew Doughty 8 years at 6 million, and he likely wouldn't take it.  And you'd offer John Tavares 8 years at 5.5 million, and he likely wouldn't take it.  

You make Ken Holland look like Merlin, KRSmith.   

Say something that DOESN'T make me say "no sh$t" as I read it!

I don't think the Red Wings should get into a bidding war for UFA's, so no I don't think they should overpay, or in most cases, pay at all. We're rebuilding, stay the course and build through the draft. We don't need any quick fixes. I guess it makes sense that you disagree with me so much. I like Holland's mentality of "kicking tires", which you hate. I'd love to have Carlson, Karlsson, Doughty or Tavares, but no I don't want us to massively overpay for any of them.

[LeftWinger 4,965]

Keep drafting players we don't need, kenny...

[krsmith17 7,191]

9 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

And Holland has led us into bottom feeder land.  Which is why I don't like him.  I like you.  Just want you to stop acting like him!

That's the problem with you and a lot of Red Wings fans in general. This fall into "bottom feeder land" was inevitable. Do you honestly believe any other GM or YOU could have kept this team competitive longer than the two decades that he did? Not a chance. We had to bottom out, and the best thing for this organization is to continue to bottom out for another couple years. The worst thing this team could do is try for quick fixes, and massively overpay for 2 or 3 UFA's. Continue to hope for it though. It's not gonna happen.

[kliq 3,755]

1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

I would rather see us pay a couple UFAs 10 mil each than see us pay Abdelkader, Nielsen, Nyquist, Dekeyser, Ericsson, Kronwall, Daley, and Howard 35 million.  I'm not opposed to a rebuild.  I'm opposed to not letting it happen because a bunch of crappy overpaid vets are getting the ice time and cap hit.  You act like Holland has NOT overpaid UFA's.  You're just ignoring the fact that they were Red Wings UFA's.  It's easy to do,   and a lot of Holland apologists do it to fool themselves from truly seeing the plague he has spread.

Read krsmith's posting history, he has given Holland plenty of crap for some of the contracts he has given out, and rightfully so.

"Holland apologist" is such an weak term used by people, the context usually attached to it is if you don't just bash the s*** out of Holland, then this is a label thrown at you to marginalize/weaken the argument with something other then facts. 

The reality is that Holland has made a lot of dumb moves, and he's made some good moves. It's too bad people are so bias with their thinking that they are unable to assess Holland properly anymore. 

As far as the players you mentioned (some UFA's, some RFA's, some who got extension's) he is my honest unbiased take.

The summer he signed Nielsen/Helm after he already signed Abby to that 7 year deal was probably the worst string of moves of Holland's tenure. They were a string of desperate move made to keep the streak alive and failed, no argument from me. Every team has some bad contracts, but to sign these when he already had some was dumb. I don't know if Holland was told to do this, or if he wanted to do this, but this is the first time that the streak ended up hurting the team and is why IMO the streak is not looked upon in the same light that it used to be.

The Daley move was meh IMO, he'll likely fetch us a return at some point, so I dont hate it, but I could have done without it.

DD I dont blame him for, D are not cheap, and at the time DD looked like a legit top 4 guy. He still probably is with the right coach/partner.

E, I wish he was never re-signed, but I understand why it happened. After losing Lidstrom, Rafalski, and Stuart, Holland didn't want to lose 4 top 4 D-men. Should have let him walk though in hindsight.

Howard was paid like a top 15 goalie, and was a top 15 goalie. Can't blame him for that deal. Plus Howard should get us a return at the TDL.

I'm happy to debate this with you, but if you start trolling me I'm done.