Official 2018 Off Season *Rebuild* Thread

[The 91 of Ryans 3,015]

6 minutes ago, kliq said:

I don't think the Wings are serious about being competitive in 2018/19.

I don't think they're serious about winning. But they'd probably like to be in a few more games. 

 

[Buppy 1,720]

1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

Nah, not booing Holland at all. @Buppy you got it all wrong. But I appreciate your post.

I'd take any one of Hughes and or Boqvist if my 1st 2 choices were already. I never said we'd be a loser if we took any of the four, but I, like everyone, have my pecking order.

Can't have it both ways. You said taking Hughes over Bouchard/Dobson would be the same old Holland. 

So either you're so obsessively anti-Holland that you're going to criticize him even for moves you don't think are bad, or you think it would be a bad move. Pick one and stick with it.

[SwedeLundin77 460]

14 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

If he's serious about remaining competitive Holland has three non draft related  jobs this summer. 

1. Replace Tatar's 20 goals.

2. Find another 30 somewhere

3. Find a better backup goalie for Howard.

 

1. Larkin +5 goals over last year
    Mantha + 5 goals over last year
    Athanasiou + 5 goals over last year
    Rasmussen + 15 goals added

2. Rasmussen + 5 goals
    Bertuzzi + 10 goals
    Hicketts + 5-10 goals
    Hronek + 5-10 goals

3. Carter Hutton or Jonathan Bernier

[marcaractac 3,963]

16 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

If he's serious about remaining competitive Holland has three non draft related  jobs this summer. 

1. Replace Tatar's 20 goals.

2. Find another 30 somewhere

3. Find a better backup goalie for Howard.

 

As long as the goals are added through youth and not more veteran UFA signings, all is well. Goalies on one year contracts should become the norm until a prospect is ready to jump in and give the team the chance to win most nights. 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

21 hours ago, F.Michael said:

Rumor has it this guy might be available...

You're right. His Wikipedia page doesn't say anything about him married, so I guess he is available.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Kessel

I am not into dudes, so I am not particularly excited about this tho.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

He went to Pioneer high school I think. Kessel's basically a Michigan guy.

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

6 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

He went to Pioneer high school I think. Kessel's basically a Michigan guy.

Did he really? He would've been there while I was there, interesting.

[Andy Pred 48 337]

Okay guys to get back on topic. I'm hearing over here in euroland that Quinn Hughes basically passed his Red wing audition during the world's and that he, not Bouchard will be taken at 6 if he's still there. Also for those that like a sleeper pick or Hakan special, look out for the name Bulat Shafigullin . 

[MileHighWingsGuy 178]

On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 9:52 PM, kliq said:

I don't think the Wings are serious about being competitive in 2018/19.

Unfortunately this has been quite a few years of the same thing. I really always thought the Wings held themselves to a higher standard and were driven to win cups. Their decisions and the fans complacency is bringing this storied franchise more in-line with the Lions than a winning organization. We need a change at the top and someone with a vision or plan of where we are headed. We have entered rebuild mode and will remain there so long as the leadership can hide behind it. Isn't Hughes a much smaller guy than Bouchard? I'm really hoping they'd have a reason to take Hughes other than he's a local guy.

Edited May 28, 2018 by MileHighWingsGuy
add on

[BinMucker94 302]

3 hours ago, MileHighWingsGuy said:

Unfortunately this has been quite a few years of the same thing. I really always thought the Wings held themselves to a higher standard and were driven to win cups. Their decisions and the fans complacency is bringing this storied franchise more in-line with the Lions than a winning organization. We need a change at the top and someone with a vision or plan of where we are headed. We have entered rebuild mode and will remain there so long as the leadership can hide behind it. Isn't Hughes a much smaller guy than Bouchard? I'm really hoping they'd have a reason to take Hughes other than he's a local guy.

Hughes is an elite skater. He can exit the zone using his speed or by making good outlet passes. I’ve heard he uses a longer stick which seems to take away from his shot but he is able to create chances every time he enters the offensive zone. His defensive game needs work but he has the edge work and agility to stay with players in one on one situations. I’ve only seen him play 5 or 6 times and he is fun to watch. There are plenty of reasons they would take him besides the fact that he is local. I’d still prefer they take Bouchard if he’s available but will not be mad at all if it’s Hughes. 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

9 hours ago, Andy Pred 48 said:

Okay guys to get back on topic. I'm hearing over here in euroland that Quinn Hughes basically passed his Red wing audition during the world's and that he, not Bouchard will be taken at 6 if he's still there. Also for those that like a sleeper pick or Hakan special, look out for the name Bulat Shafigullin . 

Yes. He showed them his college ID. That said, I wouldn't be disappointed with Hughes at #6. It's just that I would literally prefer every other player mentioned over him.

On 5/26/2018 at 10:52 PM, kliq said:

I don't think the Wings are serious about being competitive in 2018/19.

Nor should they be. I remember when the complaints were about them trying to stay competitive when they should be rebuilding. Now that they are rebuilding we shouldn't be complaining about them not being competitive. (Not that you are)

Edited May 28, 2018 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[kliq 3,755]

11 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Nor should they be. I remember when the complaints were about them trying to stay competitive when they should be rebuilding. Now that they are rebuilding we shouldn't be complaining about them not being competitive. (Not that you are)

Couldn't agree more.

[kliq 3,755]

4 hours ago, MileHighWingsGuy said:

Unfortunately this has been quite a few years of the same thing. I really always thought the Wings held themselves to a higher standard and were driven to win cups. Their decisions and the fans complacency is bringing this storied franchise more in-line with the Lions than a winning organization. We need a change at the top and someone with a vision or plan of where we are headed. We have entered rebuild mode and will remain there so long as the leadership can hide behind it. Isn't Hughes a much smaller guy than Bouchard? I'm really hoping they'd have a reason to take Hughes other than he's a local guy.

We were contenders from 1992-2012, everything done inside that window was done to win a cup. Our leadership inside that window was amazing.

If you want to argue that between 2013-2016 we become mediocre and appeared more concerned with the streak then winning a championship, I wouldn't argue with you. I think that the 2013 playoff run was a major reason for that along with the fact that guys like Nyquist, Tatar, Smith etc. appeared to have more potential then they did. Regardless of why, that was a down period where mistakes were made, especially with the consecutive contracts given out to Abby, Nielsen, and Helm. Outside of the Datsyuk trade, that was a bad summer.

You said it, we are in re-build more. Not sure why you are accusing anyone of "hiding" behind it. Either Holland and co. lead us to becoming contenders again, or they don't. It's pretty black and white. If we don't get better, I'm sure Holland will be gone. If we get better, he will likely stay. What I won't do, is judge Holland purely on a 3-4 year window when he has been with us since 1998.

I dont know enough about Houghes vs Bouchard to comment on your last question.

[LeftWinger 4,963]

remember when Holland drafted Kindl  in the 1st round? 

This is what I'm afraid of. Him bypassing the better player again. But, if he and his scouts feel Hughes is the way to go, ok. Please just don't draft a player with injury issues...

Edited May 29, 2018 by LeftWinger

[chaps80 1,591]

18 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

remember when Holland drafted Kindl  in the 1st round? 

This is what I'm afraid of. Him bypassing the better player again. But, if he and his scouts feel Hughes is the way to go, ok. Please just don't draft a player with injury issues...

Kindl, Smith, McCollum, Sheahan. 

[The 91 of Ryans 3,015]

23 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

Kindl, Smith, McCollum, Sheahan. 

Those were Jim Nill picks. 

 

55 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

remember when Holland drafted Kindl  in the 1st round? 

This is what I'm afraid of. Him bypassing the better player again. But, if he and his scouts feel Hughes is the way to go, ok. Please just don't draft a player with injury issues...

Nill drafted Kindl.

[chaps80 1,591]

3 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Those were Jim Nill picks. 

 

Says a lot about GM Hollands decision making capabilities that he let his Assistant make the first round picks during a time when they were scarce for Detroit. But I guess it could also be even worse if Nill wasn't there to draft the late round gems that kept the team in contention.

[kliq 3,755]

2 hours ago, chaps80 said:

Says a lot about GM Hollands decision making capabilities that he let his Assistant make the first round picks during a time when they were scarce for Detroit. But I guess it could also be even worse if Nill wasn't there to draft the late round gems that kept the team in contention.

So the picks that Nill made that are bad, you say:

"Says a lot about GM Hollands decision making capabilities that he let his Assistant make the first round picks during a time when they were scarce for Detroit."

When he makes picks that are good, you say: "guess it could also be even worse if Nill wasn't there to draft the late round gems that kept the team in contention."

it doesnt matter the outcome or the situation, you will always put a negative slant on it to make Holland look bad. Your bias is ridiculous. Holland has made mistakes, no doubt. But you can't say that every trade he loses is his fault, every trade he wins is because of the other GM, every good draft pick is because he assistants did it, every bad pick is on him because he is GM. Do you seriously not see the bias?

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

18 hours ago, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

Did he really? He would've been there while I was there, interesting.

Yeah he went there while with the USA development program I'm pretty sure. Saline high school alum here what up.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,015]

Cap to go up as much as 7M

Just enough to help the Leafs sign Tavares lol   

 

 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

14 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

remember when Holland drafted Kindl  in the 1st round? 

This is what I'm afraid of. Him bypassing the better player again. But, if he and his scouts feel Hughes is the way to go, ok. Please just don't draft a player with injury issues...

 

13 hours ago, chaps80 said:

Kindl, Smith, McCollum, Sheahan. 

Very selective examples here. You mention these 4 former 1st rounders as reasons why Holland can't draft.

1. All were drafted prior to 2011, back when the team was more competitive. All 4 were in the bottom half of the first round (19th, 27th, 30th, 21st). We all know that these guys are bigger risks. It's not like Holland missed on a top ten pick here.

2. 3 out of the 4 played significant time in the NHL, so they weren't "flops" or "busts", despite your narratives.

3. Sheahan is still in the league as a serviceable 3C at only a 1.05 mil salary. Not bad for a guy that everyone predicted as a bottom 6 F even before he was drafted.

4. You conveniently left out all of the 1st round draft picks since 2010. Rasmussen (9th), Cholowski (20th), Svechnikov (19th), Larkin (15th), and Mantha (20th). All of whom either are, or will become, major parts of this team's rebuild - Literally every 1st rounder drafted since Sheahan. Not one "bust". But I guess they don't fit the Anti-Holland agenda so they weren't mentioned.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,015]

18 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

 

Very selective examples here. You mention these 4 former 1st rounders as reasons why Holland can't draft.

1. All were drafted prior to 2011, back when the team was more competitive. All 4 were in the bottom half of the first round (19th, 27th, 30th, 21st). We all know that these guys are bigger risks. It's not like Holland missed on a top ten pick here.

2. 3 out of the 4 played significant time in the NHL, so they weren't "flops" or "busts", despite your narratives.

3. Sheahan is still in the league as a serviceable 3C at only a 1.05 mil salary. Not bad for a guy that everyone predicted as a bottom 6 F even before he was drafted.

4. You conveniently left out all of the 1st round draft picks since 2010. Rasmussen (9th), Cholowski (20th), Svechnikov (19th), Larkin (15th), and Mantha (20th). All of whom either are, or will become, major parts of this team's rebuild - Literally every 1st rounder drafted since Sheahan. Not one "bust". But I guess they don't fit the Anti-Holland agenda so they weren't mentioned.

All guys drafted after Nill took the GM job in Dallas and Holland hired Tyler Wright as Director of Amatuer Scouting. 

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

9 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Yeah he went there while with the USA development program I'm pretty sure. Saline high school alum here what up.

fight me bro.

[LeftWinger 4,963]

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

 

Very selective examples here. You mention these 4 former 1st rounders as reasons why Holland can't draft.

1. All were drafted prior to 2011, back when the team was more competitive. All 4 were in the bottom half of the first round (19th, 27th, 30th, 21st). We all know that these guys are bigger risks. It's not like Holland missed on a top ten pick here.

2. 3 out of the 4 played significant time in the NHL, so they weren't "flops" or "busts", despite your narratives.

3. Sheahan is still in the league as a serviceable 3C at only a 1.05 mil salary. Not bad for a guy that everyone predicted as a bottom 6 F even before he was drafted.

4. You conveniently left out all of the 1st round draft picks since 2010. Rasmussen (9th), Cholowski (20th), Svechnikov (19th), Larkin (15th), and Mantha (20th). All of whom either are, or will become, major parts of this team's rebuild - Literally every 1st rounder drafted since Sheahan. Not one "bust". But I guess they don't fit the Anti-Holland agenda so they weren't mentioned.

You quotes two people, I only mentioned Kindl. He was a bust from day 1, but was the #5ish ranked European. 

I am far from anti-Holland, just skeptical-Holland. But they're the pros, so they'll draft who they think is the best at that spot. I just don't want to chose a player because Michigan/Sweden or anything. I want the best player at #6, we may not get a pick this high in a long time. They know more than we do, but I trust the insiders at TSN, if they say Bouchard or Dobson are the best pick, then I believe they are.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

4 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

You quotes two people, I only mentioned Kindl. He was a bust from day 1, but was the #5ish ranked European. 

I am far from anti-Holland, just skeptical-Holland. But they're the pros, so they'll draft who they think is the best at that spot. I just don't want to chose a player because Michigan/Sweden or anything. I want the best player at #6, we may not get a pick this high in a long time. They know more than we do, but I trust the insiders at TSN, if they say Bouchard or Dobson are the best pick, then I believe they are.

1st bold: We'll have to disagree here. He played 331 games over 7 seasons in the NHL. I don't consider that a "bust". If he was the 5th ranked European that year, then I would say that picking him at 19th would have been considered a steal. If a player ranked that high drops that far, you take him. I wouldn't fault Holland at all for that.

2nd bold: If you truly believe that they'll pick who is best at 6th, then you shouldn't be worried about a  Michigan/Sweden thing.

3rd bold: Yes they do. So let's not get too worked up about it. Not yet anyway.

5 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

All guys drafted after Nill took the GM job in Dallas and Holland hired Tyler Wright as Director of Amatuer Scouting. 

I thought Nill was a much better GM than Holland tho. At least that's what I heard.