2019 Offseason Rebuild Thread, Pt. 2 - What's the Yzerplan?

[mackel 681]

46 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Hell No!

A trade for Point costs us what? Larkin, McIsaac and a pick? Or Mantha, Hronek and a pick? No thanks...

You know how I feel about Karlsson... Stay far away.

 Who writes this s***?

"The Red Wings also have some prospects that interest the Winnipeg Jets. Ryan Kuffner is one player of interest along with Matt Puempel"

Why would we add a 2nd with those two stud prospects? Kuffner and Puempel for Trouba straight up. Jets get two high end prospects. Wings get a pending UFA defenseman. Seems fair to me...

Are those two "high end prospects"?  I've considered both AHLers in th making.

[Wings3:16 318]

33 minutes ago, mackel said:

Are those two "high end prospects"?  I've considered both AHLers in th making.

 

 

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

If we can get in the top 10, let’s say #8 with Edmonton since they wanna win now by say trading AA , would you do it? And if so for who? 

say if we got 2 of zegras/cozens/podkolzin/broberg/caufield/boldy in the top 8 would that be something to move AA now for or we stick with the course and keep team as is and keep building and hopefully land some gems with the next four picks after #6 

Edited May 26, 2019 by nyqvististhefuture

[LeftWinger 4,962]

Trading AA...No.

Winnipeg is going to trade Trouba.  They have to get some value, but they will accept what will seems like pennies on the dollar because he will walk in 2020 for free.  If they are looking for a prospect(s) and a pick for Jacob, then Rasmussen (or less,) Saarijarvi and a 2nd should get it done.  Kuffner just may be on Winnipeg's radar, you never know.  They need ELC's that won't be looking for HUGE paydays for a few years. They want to re-sign Myers, they will have to pay Laine $10M-$12M AAV.  Not to worry about trading the 2nd, they will get a pick back in the Callahan deal, and possibly be able to help Toronto out by absorbing a 1 year cap dump in exchange for a pick. Stevie might even be able to dump off a extra forward for a pick as well.

Trouba is not a pending UFA, he is a pending RFA and if acquired by Detroit will immediately sign an 8 year extension for between $8M and $9M.

 

And that opens up plenty of cap space for Tampa, Winnipeg and Toronto. Tampa to attempt to get Karlsson, and Toronto to be able to re-sign Marner and Winnipeg to easily re-sign Myers, Copp, Tanev and Laine, and possibly make a splash in July. It's a win for everyone involved.

Edited January 7, 2021 by LeftWinger

[LeftWinger 4,962]

Edited to the other post

Edited May 26, 2019 by LeftWinger

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

34 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Trading AA...No.

Winnipeg is going to trade Trouba.  They have to get some value, but they will accept what will seems like pennies on the dollar because he will walk in 2020 for free.  If they are looking for a prospect(s) and a pick for Jacob, then Rasmussen (or less,) Saarijarvi and a 2nd should get it done.  Kuffner just may be on Winnipeg's radar, you never know.  They need ELC's that won't be looking for HUGE paydays for a few years. They want to re-sign Myers, they will have to pay Laine $10M-$12M AAV.  Not to worry about trading the 2nd, they will get a pick back in the Callahan deal, and possibly be able to help Toronto out by absorbing a 1 year cap dump in exchange for a pick. Stevie might even be able to dump off a extra forward for a pick as well.

Trouba is not a pending UFA, he is a pending RFA and if acquired by Detroit will immediately sign an 8 year extension for between $8M and $9M.

And that opens up plenty of cap space for Tampa, Winnipeg and Toronto. Tampa to attempt to get Karlsson, and Toronto to be able to re-sign Marner and Winnipeg to easily re-sign Myers, Copp, Tanev and Laine, and possibly make a splash in July. It's a win for everyone involved.

Ya I don’t think that jets trade is realistic at all , don’t think they’d have any interest in kuffner or saarijarvi , they want players that’ll help them compete now , only way we get marleau is if he somehow agrees to be dealt here so we can eat some salary and move him elsewhere at his age he won’t wanna waive his ntc to end up in Detroit 

[LeftWinger 4,962]

Get it done Stevie!

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Trouba is a 25 year old, 50 pt, RFA Dman. These rumored/suggested trades for his rights are beyond laughable.

His RFA compensation is at a bare minimum a 1st, 2nd, and a 3rd.

All the Jets have to do is qualify him and then let him field offers on the market and they will get that compensation. If we want to woo them with a trade we should be offering what they want: cost-effective players who can contribute next season.

That's: Zadina, Rasmussen, Hirose, Cholowski, Hronek, Mantha, AA, Bertuzzi

We should be prepared to give up Rasmussen + Cholowski + more in such a trade

Anyway, I seriously doubt our chances at getting Trouba this season. The Jets are in the driver seat. They have him under RFA control and they have the cap space to re-sign him. Trouba this season is a pipe dream. The only real chance we have at him is he doesn't want to be a Winnipeg lifer, signs a short RFA bridge deal this summer, and returns home via UFA in a few seasons.

 

Edited May 26, 2019 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

38 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Get it done Stevie!

Read the article didn’t say anything about Steve calling , just mentioned probable trade scenarios and how we have multiple picks and jets are lacking them 

I still think they’d do something that helps them win in the now if they move him and I’m still holding out for us getting him in 2020 as a ufa , 2019-2020 are going to be deep drafts and since we’re rebuildng and he’s so close to walking I’ll wait it out and see what happens, if this was trouba at 22 it would have been a different thing

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

12 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Trouba is a 25 year old, 50 pt, RFA Dman. These rumored/suggested trades for his rights are beyond laughable.

His RFA compensation is at a bare minimum a 1st, 2nd, and a 3rd.

All the Jets have to do is qualify him and then let him field offers on the market and they will get that compensation. If we want to woo them with a trade we should be offering what they want: cost-effective players who can contribute next season.

That's: Zadina, Rasmussen, Hirose, Cholowski, Hronek, Mantha, AA, Bertuzzi

We should be prepared to give up Rasmussen + Cholowski + more in such a trade

Anyway, I seriously doubt our chances at getting Trouba this season. The Jets are in the driver seat. They have him under RFA control and they have the cap space to re-sign him. Trouba this season is a pipe dream. The only real chance we have at him is he doesn't want to be a Winnipeg lifer, signs a short RFA bridge deal this summer, and returns home via UFA in a few seasons.

 

I don’t know if anyone would give up a 1st,2nd and 3rd unless he’s signed up but he’s these kuffner type stuff is ridiculous 

i don’t think we should be moving those guys at this stage of the rebuild, I mean I can see Rasmussen being a chip cause personally I’m not high on him and from what I’ve seen not many wings fans are + yzerman wouldn’t feel too attached to the guy since he’s new but I think dealing cholowski would be dumb at the stage we’re in , we land him next year we can have trouba hronek cholowski mcisaac for possibly next decade 

i can understand people wanting to move in on trouba but I’d personally be hoping yzerman is calling his agent with a burner phone and telling him if trouba can toughen it out at this point one more season it would help the team he wants to join in the longterm immensely ... we’ll see what happens this summer , can’t imagine trouba going to training camp and then being moved 

and for trouba signing multiple seasons, I’m pretty sure at this stage he can get his one year deal if he wants, we’ll see 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

17 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

i don’t think we should be moving those guys at this stage of the rebuild,

i can understand people wanting to move in on trouba but I’d personally be hoping yzerman is calling his agent with a burner phone and telling him if trouba can toughen it out at this point one more season it would help the team he wants to join in the longterm immensely ... we’ll see what happens this summer , can’t imagine trouba going to training camp and then being moved

I agree, it's not the right time to execute a massive trade/offer-sheet that will cost us prospects and/or picks. A major UFA signing is about the most we can hope for.

17 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

I mean I can see Rasmussen being a chip cause personally I’m not high on him and from what I’ve seen not many wings fans are + yzerman wouldn’t feel too attached to the guy since he’s new but I think dealing cholowski would be dumb at the stage we’re in , we land him next year we can have trouba hronek cholowski mcisaac for possibly next decade

Most fans were not high on Bertuzzi either. I think most would have included him in a trade as an after thought just a season or two ago. Now he's a player who could garner us a 1st rounder in a trade. My point being, personal emotions aside, it's way way way too early to sell Rasmussen like it is most of our prospects. I'm not very high on Zadina at the current moment, but I'm still absolutely unwilling to sell him. The chances I could be wrong about him are far too great.

I think the Callahan trade is realistic because of the situation Tampa is in. But Winnipeg does not have their hands tied in the same way. Trouba will probably be with the Jets for the immediate future.

 

Edited May 26, 2019 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

4 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I agree, it's not the right time to execute a massive trade/offer-sheet that will cost us prospects and/or picks. A major UFA signing is about the most we can hope for.

Most fans were not high on Bertuzzi either. I think most would have included him in a trade as an after thought just a season or two ago. Now he's a player who could garner us a 1st rounder in a trade. My point being, personal emotions aside, it's way way way too early to sell Rasmussen like it is most of our prospects.

I think the Callahan trade is realistic because of the situation Tampa is in. But Winnipeg does not have their hands tied in the same way. Trouba will probably be with the Jets for the immediate future.

 

I know most fans weren’t thrilled we drafted bertuzzi so soon but I’m surprised most would of included in him in a deal few yrs ago , I mean he didn’t score close to 20 but I think even before this past season he gives us a different dimension we lacked, that kid will be a playoff warrior once we start getting in again 

oh I agree with you it’s too early to trade Rasmussen , it would look bad and make us look like we made a mistake but I’m just saying I don’t think yzerman would care too much as he doesn’t have a connection to these prospects but I’m just hoping trouba holds out,  maybe I’m being naive but if it was me Trying to get back to my hometown team who’s rebuilding I’d tell them to wait it out a year and keep assets and keep rebuilding

that being said though if I was trouba and July 1 2020 came and I felt my home team was disrespecting me and being cheap with the contracts thinking they can get a steal I would be pissed and bail so can’t ever take it as 100% guarantee he’ll come but I say it’s very close 

callahan is realistic but only if we can flip him right away cause I can’t see him wanting to be a redwing , as for trouba jets can’t force him to sign longterm at this stage he can play hardball till he gets his one year contract offer , I can totally see trouba missing training camp and such, can’t see him being pushed around into signing 2-3-4 year deal 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

19 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

I know most fans weren’t thrilled we drafted bertuzzi so soon but I’m surprised most would of included in him in a deal few yrs ago , I mean he didn’t score close to 20 but I think even before this past season he gives us a different dimension we lacked, that kid will be a playoff warrior once we start getting in again 

oh I agree with you it’s too early to trade Rasmussen , it would look bad and make us look like we made a mistake but I’m just saying I don’t think yzerman would care too much as he doesn’t have a connection to these prospects but I’m just hoping trouba holds out,  maybe I’m being naive but if it was me Trying to get back to my hometown team who’s rebuilding I’d tell them to wait it out a year and keep assets and keep rebuilding

that being said though if I was trouba and July 1 2020 came and I felt my home team was disrespecting me and being cheap with the contracts thinking they can get a steal I would be pissed and bail so can’t ever take it as 100% guarantee he’ll come but I say it’s very close 

callahan is realistic but only if we can flip him right away cause I can’t see him wanting to be a redwing , as for trouba jets can’t force him to sign longterm at this stage he can play hardball till he gets his one year contract offer , I can totally see trouba missing training camp and such, can’t see him being pushed around into signing 2-3-4 year deal 

I don't think that's a contingency at all.

Callahan has put up 39 pts in his last 137 games. He's a 20-25 pt player with defensive acumen. In that sense he's basically an older version of Abdelkader but for $1.8 mil more a season. He doesn't really have the clout to decide anything about where he plays. He's lucky just to have a job. Tampa will likely buy him out if he can't be traded.

If we can retain salary and flip him I'd be fine with it. Not sure how many competitive teams want to spend about $3 million on 34 year old Abby type players though. I'd be content to eat his entire salary for one year, and I'm sure he'd love the opportunity to re-ignite his career on a team that's not as deep as Tampa is. 

Edited May 26, 2019 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

19 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I don't think that's a contingency at all.

Callahan has put up 39 pts in his last 137 games. He's a 20-25 pt player with defensive acumen. In that sense he's basically an older version of Abdelkader but for $1.8 mil more a season. He doesn't really have the clout to decide anything about where he plays. He's lucky just to have a job. Tampa will likely buy him out if he can't be traded.

If we can retain salary and flip him I'd be fine with it. Not sure how many competitive teams want to spend about $3 million on 34 year old Abby type players though. I'd be content to eat his entire salary for one year, and I'm sure he'd love the opportunity to re-ignite his career on a team that's not as deep as Tampa is. 

Well he’s got a ntc from what I recall so he does have control, i don’t think Tampa wants to waste any cap space next two seasons with point and vasilevsky needing new deals and these Karlsson rumours , don’t know if he’d waive his ntc for Detroit to be his end game , that point he’d take the buyout and sign somewhere else for 1-2 per 

Personally I can see Florida being a team Callahan would accept a move to since he’s already in Florida and I can’t think off the top of my head but I don’t recall many veteran leadership guys on the panthers so it could be a fit 

we’ll see what happens , no problem if he’s a redwing all season though  it’ll give us more of a chance to get a top pick 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

15 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Well he’s got a ntc from what I recall so he does have control, i don’t think Tampa wants to waste any cap space next two seasons with point and vasilevsky needing new deals and these Karlsson rumours , don’t know if he’d waive his ntc for Detroit to be his end game , that point he’d take the buyout and sign somewhere else for 1-2 per 

Personally I can see Florida being a team Callahan would accept a move to since he’s already in Florida and I can’t think off the top of my head but I don’t recall many veteran leadership guys on the panthers so it could be a fit 

we’ll see what happens , no problem if he’s a redwing all season though  it’ll give us more of a chance to get a top pick 

True with the NTC, he has a 16 team trade list. We'd have to be on it for him to get here.

I personally doubt Flroida because they're rumored to be going all in on Panarin and Bobrovsky. I would think they want to keep their cap wide-open because of that.

I could see returning to NYR as a destination. They get their captain back and some more nice picks in the process. Or Buffalo, he's from upstate NY so it would be a home-coming and the Sabres have cap to burn as well.

If he wants to win now, most cup teams won't want him, and the buyout is more likely. Tampa saves $3.1 in a buyout scenario this season.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

True with the NTC, he has a 16 team trade list. We'd have to be on it for him to get here.

I personally doubt Flroida because they're rumored to be going all in on Panarin and Bobrovsky. I would think they want to keep their cap wide-open because of that.

I could see returning to NYR as a destination. They get their captain back and some more nice picks in the process. Or Buffalo, he's from upstate NY so it would be a home-coming and the Sabres have cap to burn as well.

If he wants to win now, most cup teams won't want him, and the buyout is more likely. Tampa saves $3.1 in a buyout scenario this season.

I think Tampa will want to save every penny as possible , can be wrong ... might be wrong and he would accept a trade to Detroit and I’d have no problem with that as I think as a lottery pick would be the absolute best thing even though it would suck to go through another brutal season of tv viewing 

[LeftWinger 4,962]

5 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Trouba is a 25 year old, 50 pt, RFA Dman. These rumored/suggested trades for his rights are beyond laughable.

His RFA compensation is at a bare minimum a 1st, 2nd, and a 3rd.

All the Jets have to do is qualify him and then let him field offers on the market and they will get that compensation. If we want to woo them with a trade we should be offering what they want: cost-effective players who can contribute next season.

That's: Zadina, Rasmussen, Hirose, Cholowski, Hronek, Mantha, AA, Bertuzzi

We should be prepared to give up Rasmussen + Cholowski + more in such a trade

Anyway, I seriously doubt our chances at getting Trouba this season. The Jets are in the driver seat. They have him under RFA control and they have the cap space to re-sign him. Trouba this season is a pipe dream. The only real chance we have at him is he doesn't want to be a Winnipeg lifer, signs a short RFA bridge deal this summer, and returns home via UFA in a few seasons.

 

He is not going to sign a bridge deal. That day has come and gone. If he is not traded, he will go to arbitration AGAIN, get a 1 year deal AGAIN and leave as a UFA in 2020. Winnipeg must get something for him. No One is giving up significant pieces for a 1 year guy who wants to play closer to home. To me, that puts Yzerman in the driver's seat, he's getting him one way or another, Winnipeg best take the draft picks. 

[LeftWinger 4,962]

Take a look at capfriendly Winnipeg page. Despite having a lot of cap, Laine is taking about $11M of it. They want to re-sign Myers, plus they have a good amount of players that are key guys that they need to re-sign. I'm sure they'd love to re-sign Trouba, but they want to underpay him and long term. He doesn't want to be a Jet long term. That's quite obvious. Winnipeg will be ready to move on from him if they cannot come to a long term deal. They better take what they can get, or they'll get less in a year, then nothing come July 2020.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

Take a look at capfriendly Winnipeg page. Despite having a lot of cap, Laine is taking about $11M of it. They want to re-sign Myers, plus they have a good amount of players that are key guys that they need to re-sign. I'm sure they'd love to re-sign Trouba, but they want to underpay him and long term. He doesn't want to be a Jet long term. That's quite obvious. Winnipeg will be ready to move on from him if they cannot come to a long term deal. They better take what they can get, or they'll get less in a year, then nothing come July 2020.

Maybe they’ll be comfortable playing out the year with him and him walking , it’s happened before ....and if they wanted to deal him at the deadline they can probably fetch a 1st+

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

He is not going to sign a bridge deal. That day has come and gone. If he is not traded, he will go to arbitration AGAIN, get a 1 year deal AGAIN and leave as a UFA in 2020.

Players can only go through arbitration once.

2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Winnipeg must get something for him. No One is giving up significant pieces for a 1 year guy who wants to play closer to home. To me, that puts Yzerman in the driver's seat, he's getting him one way or another, Winnipeg best take the draft picks. 

You're operating under the assumption that Trouba wants to be a Red Wing. There is absolutely zero evidence to support that, just speculation by us.

2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Take a look at capfriendly Winnipeg page. Despite having a lot of cap, Laine is taking about $11M of it. They want to re-sign Myers, plus they have a good amount of players that are key guys that they need to re-sign. I'm sure they'd love to re-sign Trouba, but they want to underpay him and long term. He doesn't want to be a Jet long term. That's quite obvious. Winnipeg will be ready to move on from him if they cannot come to a long term deal. They better take what they can get, or they'll get less in a year, then nothing come July 2020.

Laine had a 50 pt season this year. He's not getting $11 mil or anywhere close to it. They have plenty of space to re-sign Trouba to a big contract if they want to. And no it's not obvious he doesn't want to be a Jet, it's obvious he wants to be paid well, and deservedly so.

52 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Maybe they’ll be comfortable playing out the year with him and him walking , it’s happened before ....and if they wanted to deal him at the deadline they can probably fetch a 1st+

They'll fetch more than a first for him

 

 

We're not getting Trouba this season unless it's for a significant price. Please think for two seconds. This is a 50 pt RFA controlled Dman. Those players do not fall into your lap for Matt Puempel and a 2nd under any circumstance. It's amazing that I have to point this out. There's also absolutely zero evidence suggesting he wants to be a Red Wing.

Edited May 27, 2019 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Since you fools wanna be foolish, here is what they're saying over at the Jets boards

To Detroit:
Jacob Trouba

To Winnipeg
Joe Veleno, Filip Hronek, 2019 2nd

If you're ok with a deal like that ok, I'm not

[krsmith17 7,191]

12 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Since you fools wanna be foolish, here is what they're saying over at the Jets boards

To Detroit:
Jacob Trouba

To Winnipeg
Joe Veleno, Filip Hronek, 2019 2nd

If you're ok with a deal like that ok, I'm not

It's foolish to think that Puempel, Kuffner and a 2nd would be enough to get Trouba. It's also foolish to think Trouba (under these circumstances) would get anything close to Hronek, Veleno and a 2nd. Realistically, it's likely somewhere in between. Hronek is off the table. Yzerman will work his magic. Trouba will be a Red Wing. 

[LeftWinger 4,962]

On 5/26/2019 at 8:38 PM, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Players can only go through arbitration once.

 

Arbitration Eligible...

https://www.capfriendly.com/arbitration-calculator/2019/WPG

Edited January 7, 2021 by LeftWinger

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

31 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

It's foolish to think that Puempel, Kuffner and a 2nd would be enough to get Trouba. It's also foolish to think Trouba (under these circumstances) would get anything close to Hronek, Veleno and a 2nd. Realistically, it's likely somewhere in between. Hronek is off the table. Yzerman will work his magic. Trouba will be a Red Wing. 

Lol don't pretend like the two are similar.

Kuffner + Puempel + 2nd is a complete joke and is honestly completely retarded

Veleno + Hronek + 2nd is completely in the realm of possible even if you don't like it

You guys need to realize Trouba is going to come at a hefty price. Young 50 pt proven NHL Dmen are like the hope diamonds of the NHL.

 

10 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Arbitration Eligible...

https://www.capfriendly.com/arbitration-calculator/2019/WPG

Ok is this loophole because the player elected or club elected? Either way I'm fine. Let him arbitrate. Best way to get him is in one year as a UFA

Edited May 27, 2019 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

AA + Lindstrom + 2019 2nd for Trouba