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2020 Offseason Rebuild Thread

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6 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

I'm not expecting much from Yzerman for at least this season - possible a few seasons. 

if I´m not completly mistaken, did he say something like "I will get an overview of what we have this year and go from there"

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4 minutes ago, ely s said:

if I´m not completly mistaken, did he say something like "I will get an overview of what we have this year and go from there"

Yup, and in his press conference he mentioned that the fan base needs patience...It'll take a few seasons, but I have faith that Yzerman will turn things around.

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25 minutes ago, ely s said:

if I´m not completly mistaken, did he say something like "I will get an overview of what we have this year and go from there"

 

19 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

Yup, and in his press conference he mentioned that the fan base needs patience...It'll take a few seasons, but I have faith that Yzerman will turn things around.

Yep.

My take is that he wants to start being a better defensive team, at least, while he's trying to figure out everything else he's got to work with. Signing Nemeth and Filpulla should help knock the GAA down a bit.

 

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1 hour ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

 

Yep.

My take is that he wants to start being a better defensive team, at least, while he's trying to figure out everything else he's got to work with. Signing Nemeth and Filpulla should help knock the GAA down a bit.

 

More stop gap players. We been stopping gaps for nearly a decade now.

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30 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

More stop gap players. We been stopping gaps for nearly a decade now.

And have one of the better prospect pools in the league. Of course we still need a lot of things to go right, but we're headed in the right direction. If the majority of our prospects develop the way we expect them to, we should be a playoff team within a couple years, and a contender shortly after that.

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37 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

More stop gap players. We been stopping gaps for nearly a decade now.

So? That wasn't my point. 

8 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

And have one of the better prospect pools in the league. Of course we still need a lot of things to go right, but we're headed in the right direction. If the majority of our prospects develop the way we expect them to, we should be a playoff team within a couple years, and a contender shortly after that.

According to.....? 

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6 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

So? That wasn't my point.

Sorry I didn't really have a point. Just an observation.

 

7 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

According to.....? 

Him.

Remember when Jurco and Pulkkinen were future top 6 snipers. Smith was gonna save the back end. And Mrazek was Hasek 2.
Don't worry though. I'm sure this group of prospects will all workout according to plan 100%.

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3 hours ago, F.Michael said:

I'm not expecting much from Yzerman for at least this season - possible a few seasons.

I dunno man.  I expected more than this.  If Ken Holland had reached on a draft pick, signed a 35 year old former Wing who isn't very good, a depth defenseman, and an AHL goalie people would be losing their minds.  In fact, it was exactly those kinds of moves that made people sour on Ken Holland in the first place.  But now that Yzerman is doing it everyone seems to have years worth of patience.  Just saying it seems like a pretty lackluster offseason for a team that's supposedly trying to get out of the basement soon.  

 

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1 minute ago, kipwinger said:

I dunno man.  I expected more than this.  If Ken Holland had reached on a draft pick, signed a 35 year old former Wing who isn't very good, a depth defenseman, and an AHL goalie people would be losing their minds.  In fact, it was exactly those kinds of moves that made people sour on Ken Holland in the first place.  But now that Yzerman is doing it everyone seems to have years worth of patience.  Just saying it seems like a pretty lackluster offseason for a team that's supposedly trying to get out of the basement soon.  

 

Totally agree.

It's clear to me the game plan hasn't really changed. Yzerman is doing the same thing I would have expected Holland to do. Sign a few depth players. Continue the tank and wait for bad contracts to expire.

It's pretty much like ownership simply made a PR move. Everyone has the warm glow of Yzerman in their veins. If Holland had the same off season the masses would be frothing at the mouth.

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3 hours ago, F.Michael said:

Yup, and in his press conference he mentioned that the fan base needs patience...It'll take a few seasons, but I have faith that Yzerman will turn things around.

Patience is fine, nobody is expecting him to fix the team over night.  But doing nothing at all just kicks the "few seasons" can further down the road.  There are always things you can do it improve your team.  Some are big, some are incremental.  Yzerman hasn't done anything of note this season.  Unless you consider selected a draft pick something of note.  But considering pretty much every team drafts in the first round I'd say it's about the least you can do. 

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3 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I dunno man.  I expected more than this.  If Ken Holland had reached on a draft pick, signed a 35 year old former Wing who isn't very good, a depth defenseman, and an AHL goalie people would be losing their minds.  In fact, it was exactly those kinds of moves that made people sour on Ken Holland in the first place.  But now that Yzerman is doing it everyone seems to have years worth of patience.  Just saying it seems like a pretty lackluster offseason for a team that's supposedly trying to get out of the basement soon.  

 

Those people would be stupid.

 

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26 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

According to.....? 

16 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Him.

Well considering we were top 10 on most boards last year, I would assume we moved up a bit since then. I'd think we're top 5 or so in the league in prospects, with a solid young core already graduated.

16 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Remember when Jurco and Pulkkinen were future top 6 snipers. Smith was gonna save the back end. And Mrazek was Hasek 2.
Don't worry though. I'm sure this group of prospects will all workout according to plan 100%.

I was high on Jurco and Smith (Sproul too), not so much Pulkkinen though. You love bringing up when people were wrong, but never when people were right. Remember when everyone was super high on Ouellet and Marchenko and I said they both sucked. I also said for year's that Jensen was the best of the lot, and he clearly was. I also said Saarijarvi wouldn't amount to s*** and Hronek would be very good. You can keep bringing up the times I was wrong, but I've been right plenty as well...

Of course not all of our prospects will pan out, but we haven't had prospects of this caliber for over 20 years, maybe longer. So yes, I'm very optimistic with the group of players / prospects we have in the organization.

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1 minute ago, kipwinger said:

Patience is fine, nobody is expecting him to fix the team over night.  But doing nothing at all just kicks the "few seasons" can further down the road.  There are always things you can do it improve your team.  Some are big, some are incremental.  Yzerman hasn't done anything of note this season.  Unless you consider selected a draft pick something of note.  But considering pretty much every team drafts in the first round I'd say it's about the least you can do. 

LOL Dude. He's been GM of this team for all of three months. Eff me. 

Also, let's be honest. You're trying to be a little iconoclastic here no? It's sort of your thing right? 

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6 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Well considering we were top 10 on most boards last year, I would assume we moved up a bit since then. I'd think we're top 5 or so in the league in prospects, with a solid young core already graduated.

I was high on Jurco and Smith (Sproul too), not so much Pulkkinen though. You love bringing up when people were wrong, but never when people were right. Remember when everyone was super high on Ouellet and Marchenko and I said they both sucked. I also said for year's that Jensen was the best of the lot, and he clearly was. I also said Saarijarvi wouldn't amount to s*** and Hronek would be very good. You can keep bringing up the times I was wrong, but I've been right plenty as well...

Of course not all of our prospects will pan out, but we haven't had prospects of this caliber for over 20 years, maybe longer. So yes, I'm very optimistic with the group of players / prospects we have in the organization.

That's exactly my point. About half the prospects you're excited about and have "slotted in" a future role, are going to fail. Banking on Zadina being a top sniper. Veleno a 2C. Or McIsaac top 4. Is a fools errand IMO. Until they're in the NHL they're nothing but risky stock options.

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4 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

LOL Dude. He's been GM of this team for all of three months. Eff me. 

Also, let's be honest. You're trying to be a little iconoclastic here no? It's sort of your thing right? 

Iconoclastic in what way?  I've always been against bringing in Yzerman as the GM. Primarily because he had exactly 1 finals appearance on his list of accomplishments despite being gifted a superstar center/goal scorer and Norris caliber defenseman before he even moved his "World's Best GM" coffee cup into his new office.  The magnum opus of his GMing came this year when his version of "best team ever assembled" got SMASHED by a clearly inferior team because...wait for it...the big, slow, unskilled, defensemen he seems to love so much couldn't (shocker) withstand an aggressive forecheck. 

ALL of which I've pointed out over and over while all you dorks were gushing over "The Captain is coming home...durrrr".  There were plenty of reason NOT to like Steve Yzerman as the GM but you'd have to actually be open to the idea that he might not be a good idea, and doing so apparently makes you an iconoclast. 

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15 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I dunno man.  I expected more than this.  If Ken Holland had reached on a draft pick, signed a 35 year old former Wing who isn't very good, a depth defenseman, and an AHL goalie people would be losing their minds.  In fact, it was exactly those kinds of moves that made people sour on Ken Holland in the first place.  But now that Yzerman is doing it everyone seems to have years worth of patience.  Just saying it seems like a pretty lackluster offseason for a team that's supposedly trying to get out of the basement soon.  

 

it´s a bit unfair to judge Yzerman that early. After the first of October we will see if he has a different approach. I think there will be opportunities when more of the RFAs have signed, because there are a few teams heading into cap problems.

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4 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Iconoclastic in what way?  I've always been against bringing in Yzerman as the GM. Primarily because he had exactly 1 finals appearance on his list of accomplishments despite being gifted a superstar center/goal scorer and Norris caliber defenseman before he even moved his "World's Best GM" coffee cup into his new office.  The magnum opus of his GMing came this year when his version of "best team ever assembled" got SMASHED by a clearly inferior team because...wait for it...the big, slow, unskilled, defensemen he seems to love so much couldn't (shocker) withstand an aggressive forecheck. 

ALL of which I've pointed out over and over while all you dorks were gushing over "The Captain is coming home...durrrr".  There were plenty of reason NOT to like Steve Yzerman as the GM but you'd have to actually be open to the idea that he might not be a good idea, and doing so apparently makes you an iconoclast. 

Jesus. What a pile of bulls***. 

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2 minutes ago, ely s said:

it´s a bit unfair to judge Yzerman that early. After the first of October we will see if he has a different approach. I think there will be opportunities when more of the RFAs have signed, because there are a few teams heading into cap problems.

I'm not judging his tenure as Red Wings GM, because that's still ongoing.  I'm judging how he handled the draft and free agency.  And since those are both things he's already done I see no reason why we can't judge them on their merits. 

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Maybe so.  But one page ago you pointed out that we have a hole at 2C, acknowledged that Yzerman didn't fill that hole, but then gave him credit for improving "depth" by signing a center who is worse than the s***ty 3C we already have (who is obviously not good enough to be a 2C). 

Saying that moved sucked DEFINITELY makes me a contrarian around here.  But acting like he did something good by NOT fixing a problem, and unnecessarily signing some pud who's worse than some of the other puds we have on the team, is probably a bit overly optimistic on your part as well. 

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25 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

That's exactly my point. About half the prospects you're excited about and have "slotted in" a future role, are going to fail. Banking on Zadina being a top sniper. Veleno a 2C. Or McIsaac top 4. Is a fools errand IMO. Until they're in the NHL they're nothing but risky stock options.

And my point is that we've never had this many prospects of this caliber before.

Seider, Hronek, Cholowski, Zadina, Veleno are all prospects that won't fail. Certainly not half of them... They may not all reach their ceilings, but I'd bet on at least a couple of them to, and the ones that don't will still be good NHLers.

McIsaac, Regula, Lindstrom, Tuomisto, Svechnikov, Berggren are the prospects we're used to having in the system that we get really excited about. Some of them could pan out, but half of them could completely flop, like we've seen in the past.

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1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I think what's going unsaid is that Yzerman wasn't trying to improve the team this year beyond stop gaps

I mean, that's pretty obvious based on everything he's done since taking over the team. Is sucking for another year a good thing?  There are definitely some drawbacks. 

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39 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I'm not judging his tenure as Red Wings GM, because that's still ongoing.  I'm judging how he handled the draft and free agency.  And since those are both things he's already done I see no reason why we can't judge them on their merits. 

what else could he have done? If he wants to give his young guns a chance to play and see what he´s got in the folder.

we don´t have a solid bottom 4 LD in the prospect pool as of today, so he took Nemeth for 2 years. That is never going to hurt, so I´m ok with that. If someone has a fantastic camp you can bring him in and Nemeth still won´t hurt.

Fil is questionable, a depth aquistion that won´t hurt but probably unnecessary.

We don´t even know what he really wanted to achieve, like we don´t know the real Yzerplan ;)

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