Dylan Larkin Is Soft

[Jimmybigrigs69 366]

Hockey guys breakdown of the wings struggles is pretty brutal.

One thing he flat out admits = Larkin is not a 1C. Something a lot of fans have been trying to get across for years...

We've essentially built this teams foundation on a pillar thats not strong enough. Trotting out a 2C and pretending he's a 1C has not worked for an entire DECADE now. That's how long it's been. Time to wake TFU.

>just get a 1C then

Pretty much impossible unless you draft one high. And unfortunately we are now setup for perpetual mediocrity drafting outside the top 10.

And even worse, the oppurtunity to correct this error has come and gone. Larkin should have been sold in 2023 for multiple chests of gold, instead of being re-signed to a massive contract with an NTC that takes him till 2031. The picks gained from that would have accelerated the build massively, hurt us in the short term, but it would have reset our foundation (away from holland era, and towards SY era).

Seider is turning 24 and Raymond is turning 23 within the month. Theyre in their prime, and we are no closer to the playoffs and trending worse. And strategically, this team is worse off than a basement team drafting high. 

>but yzerman didnt win a cup until he was 384 years old!

LARKIN. AINT. YZERMAN.

I said it years ago, this team will not win a cup with Larkin on the roster. At this point we are stalling so Pizzaman could keep his top jersey seller on the team. 

Until this fundamental problem is adressed we are wasting our time. Unfortunately I dont think SY can do anything meaningful to address it anymore. 

Thank gosh the lions are good. 

[Jimmybigrigs69 366]

Unless Kasper/Danielson/Lombardi are better centers than Larkin... we're pretty much fuqqed

And I think you all realize theyre not.

We need a true 1C. Were on 7 years of Yzerman and no freak Datsyuks or Zs have emerged. 

This organization made a mistake not trading Larkin when his last contract was up. Its beyond obvious. And now we will waste years and then trade him for peanuts outside of his prime. 

Im honestly more interested in the Tigers at this point and I hate baseball. SY has bungled this pretty badly. Its goung to be "another 5 years" for the next 30 years and counting. 

Im almost more disillusioned than the depths of the blash years at this point.

Unbelieveable. 

 

[town123 231]

So..... I guess Larkin maybe shouldn't have voiced his displeasure regarding the TDL and SY's reluctance to overspend needlessly.     I get that he's been mauled by other teams since he's been our best player and has been a good captain, but complaining in public instead of privately is not a good for the team.

 

Considering the Canucks dillema with Pettersson would anyone take a straight up Larkin for Petey? (25% retained)

 

[Jimmybigrigs69 366]

1 hour ago, town123 said:

So..... I guess Larkin maybe shouldn't have voiced his displeasure regarding the TDL and SY's reluctance to overspend needlessly.     I get that he's been mauled by other teams since he's been our best player and has been a good captain, but complaining in public instead of privately is not a good for the team.

 

Considering the Canucks dillema with Pettersson would anyone take a straight up Larkin for Petey? (25% retained)

 

Thanks for bringing it up. I've been meaning to rant about it!

If anyone hasnt seen it, Larkin seems to be a bit disillusioned with the yzer"plan" as well:

 

>When asked about what he thinks about the young guns being added and coming up:

"I'm not going to play with some of these draft picks. Like guys drafted in the 4th round this year, by the time they develop... theyre going to be good players and its good what we got, but yeah..."

I'm not going to play with some of these draft picks is a BOLD statement to say the least. Larkin is about to turn 29 this summer and has 3 seasons remaining on his contract. He references the late picks from this draft, which take 5+ years to develop. He's not going to be here at 33? 34? 35? Does he not plan on re-signing? The obvious reading between the lines here is that he is no longer interested in this teams future building. He has 3 years left on his contract. Get something thats going to impact in those 3 years, because after those 3 are gone, well, who knows...

>When asked how its been missing the playoffs again 9 years in now

"Its been difficult. Yeah it's probably... *very long pause*... something I think about everyday. For a long time during days. It's something I go back and forth in my head about... but that doesnt do you any good, you just gotta go out there and play and win, and we came up about 5 or 6 wins short this year"

*record scratch* going back n forth in his head about what??? Whether or not he wants to make the playoffs? That doesnt make much sense. Of course he wants to make them. So what is he mulling over in his mind so much about when he thinks about this team missing the playoffs again...?

>When asked about the teams struggles in March

"It was hard. We didn't do anything. And then I felt the group, we didn't gain any momentum from the trade deadline, and guys were kinda down about it. It'd be nice to add something. To bring a little spark onto the ice, and maybe a morale boost as well."

In polite hockey interview language this is akin to a straight up call out of his GM. He didn't like Yzerman's inaction at the TDL very much...

 

The combination of these three answers is pretty damning. He' making it clear he doesnt like the direction SY is taking the current group, and if the plan is still that we are years away, then he's not going to be around for that. 

I have been a Larkin "hater" for much of my time on this board. I don't hate him, but I've always questioned his 1C status, leadership, and his defensive acumen. However I gained a ton of respect for him as a leader, and as a person/athlete after this interview. I have a helluva ton of respect for a guy who stands up for his career and commitment to a team, and for the group he is leading, and says enough is enough. Management needs to get their s*** together and give us what we need otherwise.... well, the threat is implied. 

Lastly, I posted this in another thread, but there is a semi credible rumor out there that Larkin threatened this team with a trade demand after enjoying 4nations and being angered by the TDL. This interview is making that rumor seem much more believable. And when he says he's "going back n forth in his head a lot" about something in reference to missing the playoffs, it very much suggests to me that that something is whether or not he wants off this team...

GET YOUR FUQQING MIND RIGHT YZERMAN

[kipwinger 8,754]

Larkin is getting torched on Reddit for saying something that any Red Wings fan with eyes could see for themselves the last two seasons. The TDL is a time of extreme stress and uncertainty for players on bad teams. These guys genuinely have no idea whether they're going to lose friends, or have to uproot their families, or just "fold" on the season because your GM decided you were a "seller" again this year. So to put them through it year after year after year without committing to any particular direction is completely tone deaf.

It drives ME nuts to see a flawed team that neither sells nor adds. I can't imagine how the players feel about it. What even is the point? It's clear going into the deadline that we're not good enough, everyone (including SY) can see it so obviously , and yet he decides to...bring in Craig Smith? Why even bother? Wouldn't the team have been better off just keeping Veleno...a guy they all loved?

Edited April 22 by kipwinger

[Motor City Mullets 303]

16 hours ago, town123 said:

So..... I guess Larkin maybe shouldn't have voiced his displeasure regarding the TDL and SY's reluctance to overspend needlessly.     I get that he's been mauled by other teams since he's been our best player and has been a good captain, but complaining in public instead of privately is not a good for the team.

 

Considering the Canucks dillema with Pettersson would anyone take a straight up Larkin for Petey? (25% retained)

 

Larkin for Pettersson??!!

 

Serious note - I'm glad DBoss expressed his opinion on the matter...Ever have that boss that's an idiot, f***s people over in order to make themselves look good, micromanages?

That's probably what DBoss is feeling in Detroit...The best player on the team, the Captain, shouldering the responsibility of keeping that sinking ship afloat with the mixed crew that Admiral Yzerman has given him...Some good, some so so, and some bad.

Both Larkin and Yzerman need to share the accountability here.

[town123 231]

28 minutes ago, Motor City Mullets said:

Larkin for Pettersson??!!

 

 

 

No?    How come?   Splain urself Lucy.

[Motor City Mullets 303]

43 minutes ago, town123 said:

No?    How come?   Splain urself Lucy.

The availability and scrutiny surrounding Pettersson in itself sorta telltale sign of 'run away'...His on ice performance has been erratic these past few seasons and it's been rumored that the Canucks screwed up and traded away the wrong guy (JT Miller) and it should have been Pettersson getting shipped out (locker room drama).

Sending Larkin to Vancouver for Pettersson would be a big mistake.

[kipwinger 8,754]

Not to mention he's nowhere near as good as Larkin on a much worse contract. Hard pass. But...

Given that Marco is looking really really good, I'd take Pettersson for something centered around Danielson tho. Larkin, Pettersson, Kasper down the middle would give McClellan a million options next fall. Let Larkin take the tough matchups, which he's used to (and that Pettersson can't handle). Give Pettersson the sheltered offensive minutes, which he's better at than Larkin anyway. And then absolutely cook teams with something like Sodorblom-Kasper-Berggren/Mazur on your third line.

All for the cost of a really good prospect that we'd no longer need.

Edit: Basically look at the trade that sent Sam Reinhart to Florida. A lottery protected 1st and a good but not great prospect (Devon Levi). I'd imagine any trade for Pettersson would look something like that.

Edited April 22 by kipwinger

[Motor City Mullets 303]

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

Not to mention he's nowhere near as good as Larkin on a much worse contract. Hard pass. But...

Given that Marco is looking really really good, I'd take Pettersson for something centered around Danielson tho. Larkin, Pettersson, Kasper down the middle would give McClellan a million options next fall. Let Larkin take the tough matchups, which he's used to (and that Pettersson can't handle). Give Pettersson the sheltered offensive minutes, which he's better at than Larkin anyway. And then absolutely cook teams with something like Sodorblom-Kasper-Berggren/Mazur on your third line.

All for the cost of a really good prospect that we'd no longer need.

Edit: Basically look at the trade that sent Sam Reinhart to Florida. A lottery protected 1st and a good but not great prospect (Devon Levi). I'd imagine any trade for Pettersson would look something like that.

Interesting take...I'm under the assumption Vancouver would retain some salary?

[kipwinger 8,754]

1 hour ago, Motor City Mullets said:

Interesting take...I'm under the assumption Vancouver would retain some salary?

Or we'd send someone on an expiring contract, like Tarasenko, to offset the cost. There's always somebody thrown into each trade just to make the money work.

[town123 231]

I wouldn't mind a trade like you've mentioned, but it only takes one dumber/desperate GM to overpay for Petey.   I could see the Sabres offering more without retention.   Most Nucks fans want a ransom.   Saner Nucks fans would be willing to pay to get out of that contract.

[stephen-gregory-yzerman 133]

Pettersson at $11.6m is a disgusting overpay. No thanks. Also no thanks to Marner at $15m.

Yzerman should be aggressive this summer and trade a 1st and/or top prospect but not for an overpaid primadonna.

[kipwinger 8,754]

4 hours ago, stephen-gregory-yzerman said:

Pettersson at $11.6m is a disgusting overpay. No thanks. Also no thanks to Marner at $15m.

Yzerman should be aggressive this summer and trade a 1st and/or top prospect but not for an overpaid primadonna.

Look, I don't love Pettersson as a player. I think his game is too soft to be an effective 1C. And I think Larkin's offensive game isn't quite good enough to be a high-end 1C. AND we aren't getting a MacKinnon, Barkov, Matthews, etc. any time soon. So we are going to have to do things by committee to some extent. Pettersson has shown that if you have another center to log the heavy minutes (something Larkin has been doing for years) that he can deliver elite offensive outcomes...something we badly need. 

Trading one for the other would just be an exercise in "digging one hole to fill in another", but together they might add up to a winning recipe. I don't like the contract either, but I'd take solace in the fact that A) the cap is going way up, and B) we have Larkin, Raymond, and Seider on less-than-market-value deals already. If you can get them to take a bad contract (Tarasenko) in return to make the trade work then Pettersson's deal isn't really that big of a problem going forward.

[Akakabuto 1,842]

Trade him to the BJs so he can play with his good time buddy Zach.

I’ll take Fantilli or Kent Johnson+. 

[kipwinger 8,754]

I feel like this Pettersson situation is a lot like the Eichel one with respect to how the Wings should view it. I recall everyone in the league being afraid that Eichel's injuries would prevent him from living up to his lofty contract. Scared more than a view potential suitors away. But we're a team without an elite offensive center, and those players are REALLY hard to get ahold of. It was clearly a gamble for Vegas, but it was worth the risk in acquiring Eichel because they didn't have an elite center either. Nobody is going to hand you a top end 25 year old stud center for no good reason. Anyone available is going to have a question mark or two. With Pettersson the question mark has never been about his scoring. It's more than he doesn't really have that "killer instinct" that any decent 1C needs to thrive in the NHL. He's wilts when he's the top guy. But Larkin is the compliment to that. He's been getting nearly crippled (Jamie Benn? Mathieu Joseph?) for years because of all the hard minutes he plays and HE STILL scores 70-80 points. Give him the hard minutes and Pettersson the soft ones. It's the same deployment Edmonton uses with McDavid and Draisaitl. Watch them play, McDavid gets the soft minutes because he can score a zillion points if he doesn't also have to check top players (something he blows at). Meanwhile, Edmonton has a workhorse 2C that can eat the hard minutes AND provide offense. It's not a bad "direction" for the team IMO.

[Jimmybigrigs69 366]

Speaking of Larkin's EOY presser...

Where is Yzerman's???

Never taken him this long to do it in the past... fuqqing coward. 

[Jimmybigrigs69 366]

 

 

If our whiny baby captain who dissapears every March actually wants out... IMO this is who's next in line for the C. 

I've said it before, but he has NHL coach written all over him. Articulate, insightful, honest... and yet measured. He's a true student of the game, and is superb with the media. 

He came here and was asked to basically sacrafice all his personal stats to be THE shutdown center. Has he ever complained once about that? No. 

What happened when he went down for the season this year? Team totally collapsed. 

This is a hometown kid, good soldier, and leader in the lockerroom. 

My favorite interview of his will always be between periods after he scored his 100th goal.

Q: Andrew, what does it mean to you to have 100 goals?

A: It doesn't mean s***. Hopefully the next 100 come faster. 

Copp is a fuqqin G

[town123 231]

6 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I feel like this Pettersson situation is a lot like the Eichel 

Nucks are looking to add 2nd line C so I'm guessing they really don't want to lose/trade Petey.   His full no-trade clause kicks in July 1st though so...

 Contract is a joke and the Nucks moving him would need to cover 25% to keep him under our self imposed salary structure. 

  Tom Willander falls under the Isaac Howard category.   He's headed back to Sweden supposedly because VCR is cheap and won't include performance bonuses.

 

I don't know what this kind of deal would look like seriously.    Pettersson  25% + a signed Willander for what?   Danielson, Ras/Compher +  protected 2025 1st?

Flame away.

 

 

[Jimmybigrigs69 366]

9 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

Trade him to the BJs so he can play with his good time buddy Zach.

I’ll take Fantilli or Kent Johnson+. 

I doubt they wanna move Fantilli or Johnson. Theyre basically younger versions of Larkin so thats be a lateral move at best. 

BJs do make a lot of sense though. Theyd be adding a vet leader their young group needs after losing Gaudreau, and uniting butt buddies Dylan and Zach. They also have an extra 1st this year, so sending one to us is something they can easily afford.

To CBJ: Larkin

To DET: C Cole Sillinger + RW Mathieu Olivier + 1st

Sillinger is the young replacement center we can develop. We drafted his dad Mike way back when, and he narrowly missed winning a cup with us in the 90s. Mike would be familiar with our entire nepotistic front office, and has done scouting work in the past, so might as well give him a job too.

Olivier is probably the best pound for pound fighter in the league, outside maybe Rempe or Reaves. Except Olivier can also put up 30+ pts a season unlike those two goons. We could nab him now b4 his NTC kicks in. 

Dcat - Kasper - Raymond

Soderblom - Sillinger - JTC

Mazur - Copp - Olivier

Berggren - Ras - Tarasenko

 

[Jimmybigrigs69 366]

And then say fuq it and trade for Rempe too. This team needs a radical new identity. Larkin leaving is the perfect time to flip that on its head. NYR cant re-sign all their boys and may very well be losing Rempe anyway. 

To NYR: Berggren + Rasmussen + the extra 1st acquired from CBJ

To DET: RW Rempe + LHD K'Andre Miller

Johnny Bergers and Ras are too soft and gray for our teams new in your face mentality. Go do your perimeter scoring in the big apple. 

Miller has been on the block with NYR bc they likely cant afford his extension. But we can. Big 6'5" scary black man who can score. Welcome to the D big pimpin.

Dcat - Kasper - Raymond

Soderblom - Sillinger - JTC

Tarasenko - Copp - Olivier

Mazur - Danielson - Rempe

 

Edvinsson - Seider

Miller - Chiarot

Ajo - Gustafsson

Is this lineup going to win you the cup? No. Will it get pushed around while Kasper, Danielson, Soderblom, Sillinger, Mazur, Edvinsson, and Ajo develop? FUQ NO!

That lineup would be littered with highmotor young guns in big roles, with nasty shopwreckers to back them up.

Its okay to lose - but push the other teams s*** in every night and make them pay for it.