2021 Season

[Akakabuto 1,842]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

By the looks of this, the lines to start the season (assuming no injuries) could be...

Bertuzzi - Larkin - Mantha

Ryan - Fabbri - Zadina

Namestnikov - Filppula - Gagner

Helm - Glendening - Erne

The defense pairings are less clear, but maybe something like...

Nemeth - Hronek

DeKeyser - Merrill

Staal - Stecher

I wouldn't mind Stevie taking a shot at Vatanen. Could be a good trade piece and make our defense look alot better.

Nemeth - Hronek

DeKeyser - Vatanen

Merrill - Stecher

[LeftWinger 5,132]

I am surprised that Hoffman hasn't gone somewhere for a year by now. Unless teams are just waiting for camps to thin out, you would think that some team that he would want to play for would have offered him something he could live with. Yzerman should say here is $4M for a year ad we'll deal you at the TDL to a Cup favorite team, if we cannot get a trade you can go back to UFA in the summer. I am sure many teams have offered him deals similar, I just don't get what his hold up is...

[Akakabuto 1,842]

7 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I am surprised that Hoffman hasn't gone somewhere for a year by now. Unless teams are just waiting for camps to thin out, you would think that some team that he would want to play for would have offered him something he could live with. Yzerman should say here is $4M for a year ad we'll deal you at the TDL to a Cup favorite team, if we cannot get a trade you can go back to UFA in the summer. I am sure many teams have offered him deals similar, I just don't get what his hold up is...

He is bound for STL. He signed a PTO with a full contract ready to be signed. The hold up is technicalities regarding maximazing St Louis cap space though players going on LTIR when the season starts.

Edited January 1, 2021 by Akakabuto

[krsmith17 7,191]

41 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

I wouldn't mind Stevie taking a shot at Vatanen. Could be a good trade piece and make our defense look alot better.

Nemeth - Hronek

DeKeyser - Vatanen

Merrill - Stecher

If we're scratching Staal, I'd just assume give Cholowski another opportunity to grab the spot, and hopefully hold onto it this time...

[Akakabuto 1,842]

11 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

If we're scratching Staal, I'd just assume give Cholowski another opportunity to grab the spot, and hopefully hold onto it this time...

Thats up to Cholowski isn't it? No matter if he is to battle with Staal or Merrill he has to grab the spot. 7th d-man with some minutes here and there should be a good starting point for him this year.

Injuries will also happen so he will get his chance for sure. I hope we get to see Staal as little as possible.

[Larkness Monster 11]

15 hours ago, WRusco said:

It's going to be an interesting season for sure. Will the Wings be better. Yes. How much we don't know, and that's the exciting part. 

The discusions  will be interesting between  the subtractions or the additions bring the most influential. I'm looking forward to this discusion.

Even with the subtractions and additions we will most likely finish 31st, maybe 30th at best. If they finish any better than that, Blashill gets a contract extension.

 

 

I'm looking forward to it all. I miss hockey in general and for the first time in a few seasons, there are some reasons to be excited.

I'm not sure if we will finish 30th or 31st again but it's certainly possible. As long as there is some growth and some competitive hockey, I will be happy. It would be nice to see some things go right for Blashill. 

As for the whole Pierre Luc Dubois discussion, he would be a great fit on any team. I wish we could land someone like him. Hopefully Raymond and some of other recent/upcoming picks hit their ceiling.

[krsmith17 7,191]

2 hours ago, kipwinger said:

That third line. Woof.

Yeah, I'd prefer to see...

Namestnikov - Rasmussen - Svechnikov

Helm - Glendening - Gagner

33 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

Thats up to Cholowski isn't it? No matter if he is to battle with Staal or Merrill he has to grab the spot. 7th d-man with some minutes here and there should be a good starting point for him this year.

Injuries will also happen so he will get his chance for sure. I hope we get to see Staal as little as possible.

It would be nice if it were always up to the player, but it's really not. We see younger players outperform older players all the time, and they still ride pine. We'll likely see a lot of Staal because of his "veteran presence" and "experience"...

Cholowski should be in the lineup most nights, if for no other reason than his ability to quarterback a power-play. The only other defenseman on the roster that can even do a half decent job on the PP, is Hronek. Cholowski obviously isn't anywhere near Hronek, but he is our next best option.

[Akakabuto 1,842]

30 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

It would be nice if it were always up to the player, but it's really not. We see younger players outperform older players all the time, and they still ride pine.

Yeah, I guess, but I'm certain that this team under this general manager is all about "the best player plays - the younger the better". We have nothing to fear from disgruntled veterans, they are in no way part of this teams future - short term or long term  - and I think that is clear to all. I have heard Blashill state in several interviews that the Red Wings won't make decisions based what is gonna help them win the game on tuesday night but on what's good for the future so I'm gonna hold him to his word.

 

41 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Cholowski should be in the lineup most nights, if for no other reason than his ability to quarterback a power-play. The only other defenseman on the roster that can even do a half decent job on the PP, is Hronek. Cholowski obviously isn't anywhere near Hronek, but he is our next best option.

That's why I thought Vatanen could be a good fit. Cholowski should need to grab a spot on the team first before anybody thinking of him quarterbacking the PP.

[WRusco 43]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

Cholowski should be in the lineup most nights, if for no other reason than his ability to quarterback a power-play. The only other defenseman on the roster that can even do a half decent job on the PP, is Hronek. Cholowski obviously isn't anywhere near Hronek, but he is our next best option.

I feel Cholowski is on his last shot. He needs to grab the bull by the horns and take his spot in the lineup. With his lack of defensive awareness, I don't see it happening. 

•  3

[krsmith17 7,191]

9 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

Yeah, I guess, but I'm certain that this team under this general manager is all about "the best player plays - the younger the better". We have nothing to fear from disgruntled veterans, they are in no way part of this teams future - short term or long term  - and I think that is clear to all. I have heard Blashill state in several interviews that the Red Wings won't make decisions based what is gonna help them win the game on tuesday night but on what's good for the future so I'm gonna hold him to his word.

I hope Blashill stays true to this, but I'll believe it when I see it.

9 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

That's why I thought Vatanen could be a good fit. Cholowski should need to grab a spot on the team first before anybody thinking of him quarterbacking the PP.

Vatanen is another right-handed defenseman though. We already have one of those (Hronek) quarterbacking the other unit. We need a lefty to feed our two best shooters (Mantha and Zadina). Cholowski has already proven to be more than capable in that role.

Cholowski may never be great defensively, but he's damn good offensively. Let him play to his strength. Give him sheltered minutes on the 3rd pair with a reliable partner like Merrill or Stecher, offensive zone starts and power-play time, and he'll thrive. Stop trying to turn players into something they're not...

[Akakabuto 1,842]

10 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Vatanen is another right-handed defenseman though. We already have one of those (Hronek) quarterbacking the other unit. We need a lefty to feed our two best shooters (Mantha and Zadina). Cholowski has already proven to be more than capable in that role.

My main attraction to Vatanen is his possibility as trade bait. Make up the powerplay however works. 

 

 

11 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Cholowski may never be great defensively, but he's damn good offensively. Let him play to his strength. Give him sheltered minutes on the 3rd pair with a reliable partner like Merrill or Stecher, offensive zone starts and power-play time, and he'll thrive. Stop trying to turn players into something they're not...

I agree with this wholwheartedly and I don't think I proposed to such a thing even though I don't see that same level of talent in him offensively as you do. All I'm saying is take it step by step. All in good time etc etc..

Starting off as a seventh defenseman with regular opportunities due to the very tight schedule is where he is at imo. He will inevitably get a good chunk of ice time due to the injuries that will sideline Nemeth and DeKeyser some portion of this season.

 

[krsmith17 7,191]

13 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

My main attraction to Vatanen is his possibility as trade bait. Make up the powerplay however works. 

That's fine. I'm all for adding trade bait / acquiring more assets.

How the power-play has worked in the past, especially utilizing our biggest weapon (Mantha), has been Cholowski or another capable left-handed QB feeding him from left to right.

34 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

I agree with this wholwheartedly and I don't think I proposed to such a thing even though I don't see that same level of talent in him offensively as you do. All I'm saying is take it step by step. All in good time etc etc..

That comment wasn't meant to be directed at you, but more so the Red Wings organization, trying to mold every player into a two-way stalwart.

38 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

Starting off as a seventh defenseman with regular opportunities due to the very tight schedule is where he is at imo. He will inevitably get a good chunk of ice time due to the injuries that will sideline Nemeth and DeKeyser some portion of this season.

I can see him starting as the 7th defenseman, but I can also see him earning a spot like he has in each of the past two training camps. He just needs to do a better job and hold onto it the next time he does get it, whether that's in 12 days or 12 games in...

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

On 12/31/2020 at 2:59 PM, Akakabuto said:

I mean, trading Mantha and Larkin wouldn't be the absolute worst thing that could happen to this franchise.

We’d only fall back more as i think we need some players who are vets who can actually play who arent just 4th liners stuck with all 18-21 yr old kids but i do think i can see yzerman trading mantha after this season at some point and  getting a great value for his services if zadina pans out and raymond looks good etc... 

cant fit everyone in the top 6 , surely bertuzzi can be an easy drop to the 3rd line but again we all know not every prospect pans out but all depends if berggren takes a massive step and becomes a top 6 guy , niederbach,soderblom etc.. if we land a wright or who we get in a trade someone like mantha can become expendable .

Cant see yzerman naming larkin captain and trading  him right away , part of me thought he might just keep delaying until he sees seider in a wings uniform and how he performs. Hes still very young but he looks to have future captain material written all over him

[Akakabuto 1,842]

50 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

We’d only fall back more as i think we need some players who are vets who can actually play who arent just 4th liners stuck with all 18-21 yr old kids but i do think i can see yzerman trading mantha after this season at some point and  getting a great value for his services if zadina pans out and raymond looks good etc... 

cant fit everyone in the top 6 , surely bertuzzi can be an easy drop to the 3rd line but again we all know not every prospect pans out but all depends if berggren takes a massive step and becomes a top 6 guy , niederbach,soderblom etc.. if we land a wright or who we get in a trade someone like mantha can become expendable .

Cant see yzerman naming larkin captain and trading  him right away , part of me thought he might just keep delaying until he sees seider in a wings uniform and how he performs. Hes still very young but he looks to have future captain material written all over him

Oh I wasn't advocating for it and I don't think trading both will happen. Just saying that the reward would be handsome.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

17 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I hope Blashill stays true to this, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Vatanen is another right-handed defenseman though. We already have one of those (Hronek) quarterbacking the other unit. We need a lefty to feed our two best shooters (Mantha and Zadina). Cholowski has already proven to be more than capable in that role.

Cholowski may never be great defensively, but he's damn good offensively. Let him play to his strength. Give him sheltered minutes on the 3rd pair with a reliable partner like Merrill or Stecher, offensive zone starts and power-play time, and he'll thrive. Stop trying to turn players into something they're not...

Weren't Kindl and Smith supposed to be good offensively too?

5 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

We’d only fall back more as i think we need some players who are vets who can actually play who arent just 4th liners stuck with all 18-21 yr old kids but i do think i can see yzerman trading mantha after this season at some point and  getting a great value for his services if zadina pans out and raymond looks good etc... 

cant fit everyone in the top 6 , surely bertuzzi can be an easy drop to the 3rd line but again we all know not every prospect pans out but all depends if berggren takes a massive step and becomes a top 6 guy , niederbach,soderblom etc.. if we land a wright or who we get in a trade someone like mantha can become expendable .

Cant see yzerman naming larkin captain and trading  him right away , part of me thought he might just keep delaying until he sees seider in a wings uniform and how he performs. Hes still very young but he looks to have future captain material written all over him

No way SY trades the one top 6 C this team has. Even if you think Larkin is better suited to a 2C role, we'd still be left with absolutely no one to center the top 2 lines.

[krsmith17 7,191]

2 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Weren't Kindl and Smith supposed to be good offensively too?

What's your point? Kindl and Smith sucked, so Cholowski will suck? 

[F.Michael 4,590]

3 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

What's your point? Kindl and Smith sucked, so Cholowski will suck? 

We’ll find out soon enough...

[krsmith17 7,191]

58 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

We’ll find out soon enough...

Well yeah, that's how these things generally go...

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

4 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

What's your point? Kindl and Smith sucked, so Cholowski will suck? 

Yes. That and the fact that he hasn't played any better than either of those 2 up to this point. I don't really care about his PP presence. We need a defenseman who can actually play the entire position. And so far, he hasn't even been able to take a spot away from the likes of Ericsson, Daley, Biega, etc. And I don't think SY would have signed Stecher and Merrill and traded for Staal if he thought Cholowski was going to have any impact on the roster.

 

[xault 272]

Going to be another rough season to watch... At least its short.

[krsmith17 7,191]

8 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Yes. That and the fact that he hasn't played any better than either of those 2 up to this point. I don't really care about his PP presence. We need a defenseman who can actually play the entire position. And so far, he hasn't even been able to take a spot away from the likes of Ericsson, Daley, Biega, etc. And I don't think SY would have signed Stecher and Merrill and traded for Staal if he thought Cholowski was going to have any impact on the roster.

Svechnikov hasn't played any better than Jurco up to this point either. We should just waive him now. He's obviously headed down the same path...

You don't care about his power-play presence? Do you also not care about a defenseman's penalty-kill presence, if he's bad in the offensive zone? You think every player should be two-way? That's simply not the case. There are more defensemen (and forwards) in the league that are good offensively and not so good defensively, or good defensively and not so good offensively, than defensemen that are really good both offensively and defensively. 

You really think that "the likes of Ericsson, Daley, Biega, etc." outplayed Cholowski in any capacity last season? They didn't. At all... Those three defensemen are the rare bad offensively and bad defensively... At least Cholowski provides something offensively.

This team is going to be bad with or without Cholowski, but if Blashill stays true to "the Red Wings won't make decisions based on what is gonna help them win the game on Tuesday night but what's good for the future" Cholowski most definitely should be in the lineup over Staal and Biega.

Yzerman signed Stecher and Merrill because he lost Green, Daley and Ericsson. The Staal trade was a cap dump to acquire a 2nd round pick. None of those moves should have much of an impact on Cholowski. 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

3 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Svechnikov hasn't played any better than Jurco up to this point either. We should just waive him now. He's obviously headed down the same path...

You don't care about his power-play presence? Do you also not care about a defenseman's penalty-kill presence, if he's bad in the offensive zone? You think every player should be two-way? That's simply not the case. There are more defensemen (and forwards) in the league that are good offensively and not so good defensively, or good defensively and not so good offensively, than defensemen that are really good both offensively and defensively. 

You really think that "the likes of Ericsson, Daley, Biega, etc." outplayed Cholowski in any capacity last season? They didn't. At all... Those three defensemen are the rare bad offensively and bad defensively... At least Cholowski provides something offensively.

This team is going to be bad with or without Cholowski, but if Blashill stays true to "the Red Wings won't make decisions based on what is gonna help them win the game on Tuesday night but what's good for the future" Cholowski most definitely should be in the lineup over Staal and Biega.

Yzerman signed Stecher and Merrill because he lost Green, Daley and Ericsson. The Staal trade was a cap dump to acquire a 2nd round pick. None of those moves should have much of an impact on Cholowski. 

I haven't written off Svech. But at this point, I think it's fair to say that he won't be an impactful player. I think 3rd line winger is best case scenario for him.

I don't think being a PP presence is enough for any player to justify a full time roster spot. Cholowski is supposed to be a defenseman. I expect him to be good at defense. I realize there are offensive defenseman. But unless Cholowski has the offensive abilities of a Mike Green (he doesn't) it doesn't make up for his inadequate defense.

Yzerman had no problem with demoting a long term Wing, in Ericsson, to the AHL. He would have had no problem doing the same with any of the other sub-par D on the roster. The fact that Daley and Biega (both of whom would have cleared waivers) were given opportunities over Cholowski is concerning at best. 

Cholowski was demoted to the AHL each of the last 2 seasons following poor play. Last season he was sent down with Brian Lashoff and Gustav Lindstrom still on the Wing's roster. He wasn't recalled even after Mike Green, and his blueline offense, was traded away. That's telling.

Also, if Cholowski is supposed to be an offensive dman and PP specialist, then SY shouldn't have needed to sign both Stecher and Merrill, and trade for Staal, to replace Green, Daley, and E. Cholowski should have been given Green's roster spot. Stecher would have been an upgrade over Daley, and Staal was a salary dump to replace E. Should have been no reason to sign Merrill.

I still have hope for Cholowski. I hope he has a good camp and makes the roster. I just see another Brendan Smith in the making. Poor defense, without the offense to make up for it.

I hope I am wrong.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[LeftWinger 5,132]

13 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I don't think being a PP presence is enough for any player to justify a full time roster spot.

and this is exactly why Holland drafted Rasmussen. I certainly hope he turns out to be a well rounded player, but if he is one dimensional (PP player) then I can live without him.

re: Svechnikov, I say we trade the kid while he has "potential" value. But that is waning each season.

17 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

still have hope for Cholowski. I hope he has a good camp and makes the roster. I just see another Brendan Smith in the making. Poor defense, without the offense to make up for it.

I fear his time is short here as well. Maybe Yzerman can deal him to a Western Canada team, where is from, and maybe he can ignite some kind of career. I know drafts are crap shoots for the most part, but (I know Holland wanted to dump Pav's salary) most of us, if not all, wished that Holland would've just drafted Chychrun. Here's to hoping that we aren't saying the same thing about Zadina and Hughes 4-5 years from now.

[mackel 763]

2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

and this is exactly why Holland drafted Rasmussen. I certainly hope he turns out to be a well rounded player, but if he is one dimensional (PP player) then I can live without him.

re: Svechnikov, I say we trade the kid while he has "potential" value. But that is waning each season.

I fear his time is short here as well. Maybe Yzerman can deal him to a Western Canada team, where is from, and maybe he can ignite some kind of career. I know drafts are crap shoots for the most part, but (I know Holland wanted to dump Pav's salary) most of us, if not all, wished that Holland would've just drafted Chychrun. Here's to hoping that we aren't saying the same thing about Zadina and Hughes 4-5 years from now.

Why wait, when it's readily apparent right now!?!

[krsmith17 7,191]

59 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I haven't written off Svech. But at this point, I think it's fair to say that he won't be an impactful player. I think 3rd line winger is best case scenario for him.

I agree, but he should still be in the lineup over players like Filppula, Nielsen and Erne in my opinion. Likewise, Cholowski should be in the lineup over players like Staal and Biega. I'd much rather see a young player playing that might be bad, over an older player that is bad... This should be another developmental season. Treat it as such. Playing Rasmussen, Svechnikov and Cholowski over older washed up players should be a priority this season. We need to find out what we have in them, and this is the year to do it.

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I don't think being a PP presence is enough for any player to justify a full time roster spot. Cholowski is supposed to be a defenseman. I expect him to be good at defense. I realize there are offensive defenseman. But unless Cholowski has the offensive abilities of a Mike Green (he doesn't) it doesn't make up for his inadequate defense.

There are special teams players on every single team in the NHL. Players that are on the team strictly because they can kill penalties or contribute on the power-play.

If you're talking about prime Green in Washington, that's a high bar. If you're talking older Green in Detroit, I think Cholowski could maybe be close to that.

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Yzerman had no problem with demoting a long term Wing, in Ericsson, to the AHL. He would have had no problem doing the same with any of the other sub-par D on the roster. The fact that Daley and Biega (both of whom would have cleared waivers) were given opportunities over Cholowski is concerning at best. 

Yes, that is very concerning, but not because they outplayed Cholowski, but because Cholowski outplayed them, and he still got demoted. Probably for the reason you mentioned though. Daley and Biega would have had to clear waivers, and Cholowski was / is waiver exempt.

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Cholowski was demoted to the AHL each of the last 2 seasons following poor play. Last season he was sent down with Brian Lashoff and Gustav Lindstrom still on the Wing's roster. He wasn't recalled even after Mike Green, and his blueline offense, was traded away. That's telling.

Please tell me you don't actually think Lashoff was better than Cholowski last season...

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Also, if Cholowski is supposed to be an offensive dman and PP specialist, then SY shouldn't have needed to sign both Stecher and Merrill, and trade for Staal, to replace Green, Daley, and E. Cholowski should have been given Green's roster spot. Stecher would have been an upgrade over Daley, and Staal was a salary dump to replace E. Should have been no reason to sign Merrill.

Again, those signings and trade likely had nothing to do with Cholowski. Stecher and Merrill should be the Daley and Ericsson replacements (upgrades), and Cholowski should, in my opinion, be the Green replacement. Staal was a trade specifically to acquire a 2nd round pick. I'm sure Yzerman wants some competition in camp, and he shouldn't just hand Cholowski a spot in the lineup. Cholowski should absolutely have to earn it. Hopefully he does.

3 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I still have hope for Cholowski. I hope he has a good camp and makes the roster. I just see another Brendan Smith in the making. Poor defense, without the offense to make up for it.

I hope I am wrong.

I can see the similarities, but I'm not going to assume that to be the outcome. None of this is even an argument for Cholowski specifically. It's an argument that we need more offensively capable defensemen. Maybe Cholowski becomes that. Maybe he doesn't. But I think he should be given every opportunity to prove himself, and this is the year to do that.