2021 NHL Playoffs

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Scheifele's reaction is so modern day and soft.  

 

 

 

[Gniwder 168]

1 minute ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Mark Scheifele "tried to kill a guy, now I feel bad"

Well then, play on dude. 

Clean hits = trying to kill a guy

I guess you missed the part about overreactions

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

5 minutes ago, Gniwder said:

Clean hits = trying to kill a guy

I guess you missed the part about overreactions

Just sayin'. No one feels sorry for him. Except you, his parents, maybe his team mates, and a few loser ex hockey players

[Gniwder 168]

1 minute ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Just sayin'. No one feels sorry for him. Except you, his parents, maybe his team mates, and a few loser ex hockey players

I don't feel sorry for him. My playoff team is the Habs this year. @Akakabuto, @marcaractac, and @F.Michael can vouch for that.

I feel sorry for the state of the game when big clean hits get this type of condemnation from fans and the league feels forced to hand out big suspensions.

You cannot cite one thing about the hit that is illegal besides a possible charging call. To hand a player a 4 game suspension in the playoffs for a questionable charge is patently mental.

[Gniwder 168]

>And JJ Watt with a big tackle to sack the QB
ATTEMPTED MURDER
>Flag for false start on the play
EVIDENCE OF ATTEMPTED MURDER
>After review JJ Watt was over the line of scrimmage, 1st down, 5 yard penalty
MURDER CONFIRMED
>QB hurt on the play, will not return to the game
HOW CAN JJ WATT GET AWAY WITH THIS

The NFL has determined that the sack is totally legitimate, but notes that it was hella big, therefore JJ Watt will be suspended 4 games.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

11 minutes ago, Gniwder said:

I don't feel sorry for him. My playoff team is the Habs this year. @Akakabuto, @marcaractac, and @F.Michael can vouch for that.

I feel sorry for the state of the game when big clean hits get this type of condemnation from fans and the league feels forced to hand out big suspensions.

You cannot cite one thing about the hit that is illegal besides a possible charging call. To hand a player a 4 game suspension in the playoffs for a questionable charge is patently mental.

I would be 100% totally fine if I never saw a hit like this again. And this has nothing to do with being pro or anti hockey violence. 

When people are dumb, and people get hurt it's a turn-off for me. 

You obviously have no issue with this. Well, obviously the being dumb part anyway. 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

Apparently, he has no disciplinary history. I would agree that a 4 game suspension is excessive.

[Gniwder 168]

11 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

I would be 100% totally fine if I never saw a hit like this again. And this has nothing to do with being pro or anti hockey violence. 

When people are dumb, and people get hurt it's a turn-off for me. 

You obviously have no issue with this. Well, obviously the being dumb part anyway. 

Yeah yeah Evans got hurt so you don't like the play now. If Evans gets back up and skates it off does it warrant a suspension in your mind? It's not a pro or anti violence thing. You're on the slippery slope of anything that causes injury should be eliminated/punished because you don't wanna see it.

Honestly it's a very rare play. Evans in deep alone attempting a wrap around with defenders rushing in from the top of the zone to stop it.

My honest question for you is, what alternative would have been acceptable for you?

1. Stop skating or peel off and make no attempt at a defensive play?
2. Go for the poke check and slam into Evans anyway?

If there's a 3rd option I'm not seeing, feel free to clue me in on it.
 

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Gniwder

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

13 minutes ago, Gniwder said:

Yeah yeah Evans got hurt so you don't like the play now. If Evans gets back up and skates it off does it warrant a suspension in your mind? It's not a pro or anti violence thing. You're on the slippery slope of anything that causes injury should be eliminated/punished because you don't wanna see it.

Honestly it's a very rare play. Evans in deep alone attempting a wrap around with defenders rushing in from the top of the zone to stop it.

My honest question for you is, what alternative would have been acceptable for you?

1. Stop skating or peel off and make no attempt at a defensive play?
2. Go for the poke check and slam into Evans anyway?

If there's a 3rd option I'm not seeing, feel free to clue me in on it.
 

 

How about use your brain, realize the pucks going in and let up on that hit a bit? Not only did he not let up, he digs in at the last minute to hit harder. Scheifele never looks at the puck or stick. Not once.  I swear it's like he's never seen a wrap around EN goal before. He literally looks like he participating in a different game when he makes that hit. 

It's not that there was an injury. It's that the injury was 100% unnecessary. 

 

21 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Apparently, he has no disciplinary history. I would agree that a 4 game suspension is excessive.

It's funny because the NHL has long been accused of having a double standard for it's star players. 

Edited June 4, 2021 by The 91 of Ryans

[Gniwder 168]

16 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

How about use your brain, realize the pucks going in and let up on that hit a bit? Not only did he not let up, he digs in at the last minute to hit harder. Scheifele never looks at the puck or stick. Not once.  I swear it's like he's never seen a wrap around EN goal before. He literally looks like he participating in a different game when he makes that hit. 

It's not that there was an injury. It's that the injury was 100% unnecessary.

So let me get this straight. Your complaint about the hit is literally... it was too hard.

Where were you when Kronwall put Havlat to sleep? Why didn't Kronwall let up a bit? Hell Kronwall doesn't even look at the puck or Havlat's stick. Not once. He even turns his back and digs in to hit harder! It's almost like that's the point of hitting or something! The concussion Havlat sustained from that was totally unnecessary. What was Kronwall thinking that big dumby?

I already complained that Scheifele did not attempt to play the puck. If I was Maurice I would scold him for that. But that collision is coming whether he plays the puck or not. Scheifele isn't stopping on a dime and he does stop skating at about the faceoff dots. But instead of playing the puck Scheifele braces for and leans into the hit. Completely understandable to do so, and he did it cleanly. Sorry that big hits upset you. It's part of the game.

Edited June 4, 2021 by Gniwder

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

5 minutes ago, Gniwder said:

So let me get this straight. Your complaint about the hit is literally... it was too hard.

Where were you when Kronwall put Havlat to sleep? Why didn't Kronwall let up a bit? Hell Kronwall doesn't even look at the puck or Havlat's stick. Not once. He even turns his back and digs in to hit harder! It's almost like that's the point of hitting or something! The concussion Havlat sustained from that was totally unnecessary. What was Kronwall thinking that big dumby?

I already complained that Scheifele did not attempt to play the puck. If I was Maurice I would scold him for that. But that collision is coming whether he plays the puck or not. Scheifele isn't stopping on a dime and he does stop skating at about the faceoff dots. But instead of playing the puck Scheifele braces for and leans into the hit. Completely understandable to do so, and he did it cleanly. Sorry that big hits upset you. It's part of the game.

Kronwall never Kronwalled anyone after a play was over. This puck was going in. The hit was unnecessary. You keep ignoring me when I say this. I've said it three times now. 

Also, Kronwall took 2 steps into a guy and was usually mostly stationary before this. 

The first thing I thought when I saw the hit was "ah man, he didn't have to do that". 

[Akakabuto 1,751]

Is it okay to think that the hit was clean but Scheifele was an idiot for making it?

[Gniwder 168]

22 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Kronwall never Kronwalled anyone after a play was over. This puck was going in. The hit was unnecessary. You keep ignoring me when I say this. I've said it three times now.

The play was not over. Evans does not even have the puck over the red line (coming from behind the net) and out of the trapezoid when Scheifele is already at the top of the crease. Scheifele is literally within a foot away from connecting with Evans as the puck crosses the goal line (ending the play).

That collision is happening whether you deem it necessary or not. The play does not blow dead and Scheif magically stops on a dime. Only way it doesn't happpen is if Scheifele realizes he has no chance of breaking up the play while Evans is still behind the net and decides to abandon the play.

But the most frustrating part is Scheifele DID have a chance to break up the play. He was well within reach to make a play with the stick and prevent the goal but didn't. If that was your hang up on the hit I'd understand completely. But the collision is still happening in that scenario as well.

The collision is absolutely necessary to make the play. Scheif just chose to brace for the hit instead of making the play he should have.

I've explained this probably 3 times as well. Either refute it or just admit you don't like hard hits and move on.

8 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

Is it okay to think that the hit was clean but Scheifele was an idiot for making it?

Isn't that kinda what I'm saying? He should have poked the puck and dealt with the ensuing awkward collision. Instead he (stupidly) does not make the stick play to prevent the goal and embraces the hit.

Had Scheifele made the stick play no one would be crying about this. Even if Evans got hurt. And had the goal been successfully prevented there be highlights of "amazing defensive play by mark scheifele" (and oh yeah Evans got hurt) on your news feed.

But instead it looked mean and mean is bad and bad boys get punished.

Edited June 4, 2021 by Gniwder

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

41 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

Is it okay to think that the hit was clean but Scheifele was an idiot for making it?

He was certainly guilty of charging since he was skating full speed toward Evans before he delivered the hit. You could argue he was also guilty of roughing.

The thing is, he was doing what he's supposed to do, hustling to make a play to prevent a goal. I believe him when he says it wasn't malicious and that he was just trying to keep Evans from scoring. But he did injure a player while commiting a "personal foul" so to speak. And that deserves a suspension. He also delivered a devastating hit on a defenseless player without making an attempt to lessen the impact. And it's arguable that it was an unnecessary hit as Evans was going to score anyway. 

I don't think it was a "dirty" hit as I don't think he was acting out of anger or retaliation or that he was intending to injure. I wouldn't consider it a "clean" hit either because he made no attempt to lessen the impact and it was during the commission of a penalty. So he deserved disciplinary action, but a 1 or 2 game suspension at most, considering it was his first offense and it was not "dirty" or malicious.

Just my 2 cents.

[Gniwder 168]

34 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

He was certainly guilty of charging since he was skating full speed toward Evans before he delivered the hit.

The thing is, he was doing what he's supposed to do, hustling to make a play to prevent a goal.

Exactly why it's even a questionable charging call. He was doing exactly what he was supposed to be doing, and it was a weird rare play that ended in a collision. Not an intentional charging play where a player unnecessarily skates down from the blue line to deliver a hit in the corner.

34 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

You could argue he was also guilty of roughing.

How? Roughing is for on ice altercations, not hits during a play.

34 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

But he did injure a player while commiting a "personal foul" so to speak. And that deserves a suspension.

What's the personal foul? Delivering a hit to player with the puck?

34 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

He also delivered a devastating hit on a defenseless player without making an attempt to lessen the impact. And it's arguable that it was an unnecessary hit as Evans was going to score anyway.

Defenseless? How? He's square on to Evans. Not Scheifele's fault Evans not watching the defenders. And where is this all coming from that players need to hold back on hits and attempt to lessen impacts? That's not a thing.

The puck crosses the goal line about 0.5 second before Scheifele makes contact with Evans. This bit about it "it was going in anyway" is pure malarchy. A half second sooner and the goal may not even happen without a poke play.

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Gniwder

[Scott R Lucidi 454]

Watch the ref on the goal line.  He doesnt even put his arm in the air.  That's how clean that hit was.  Big guy knocking down a small guy who put his head down and forgot he was playing a contact sport.  I am not a big Sean Avery fan, but he has the correct take here.  This isnt Scott Stevens taking elbow shots at heads or Ulf Sammuelsson sticking legs out to wreck ACL's.  The is Evans forgetting he is playing a playoff game in the NHL and getting trucked by an opponent who was playing until the whistle.  Shoulder to chest.  Whamo.  The injury sucks, but you better keep your head up and on a swivel if you are gonna play hockey.  It's not curling.

[Scott R Lucidi 454]

3 hours ago, Gniwder said:

Exactly why it's even a questionable charging call. He was doing exactly what he was supposed to be doing, and it was a weird rare play that ended in a collision. Not an intentional charging play where a player unnecessarily skates down from the blue line to deliver a hit in the corner.

How? Roughing is for on ice altercations, not hits during a play.

What's the personal foul? Delivering a hit to player with the puck?

Defenseless? How? He's square on to Evans. Not Scheifele's fault Evans not watching the defenders. And where is this all coming from that players need to hold back on hits and attempt to lessen impacts? That's not a thing.

The puck crosses the goal line about 0.5 second before Scheifele makes contact with Evans. This bit about it "it was going in anyway" is pure malarchy. A half second sooner and the goal may not even happen without a poke play.

 

The whistle had not blown, Schiefele had stopped his strides 15' prior to impact, and the hit was shoulder to chest.  The proof that this play was very arguably clean is the official at the goal line keeping his hand down.  If it was egregious, the arm would have gone up immediately.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

3 hours ago, Gniwder said:

Exactly why it's even a questionable charging call. He was doing exactly what he was supposed to be doing, and it was a weird rare play that ended in a collision. Not an intentional charging play where a player unnecessarily skates down from the blue line to deliver a hit in the corner.

How? Roughing is for on ice altercations, not hits during a play.

What's the personal foul? Delivering a hit to player with the puck?

Defenseless? How? He's square on to Evans. Not Scheifele's fault Evans not watching the defenders. And where is this all coming from that players need to hold back on hits and attempt to lessen impacts? That's not a thing.

The puck crosses the goal line about 0.5 second before Scheifele makes contact with Evans. This bit about it "it was going in anyway" is pure malarchy. A half second sooner and the goal may not even happen without a poke play.

 

Charging is essentially a personal foul. It resulted in a player injury. That's the whole point of the DoPS: Handing out disciplinary action in these types of scenarios.

Roughing occurs when a player uses unnecessary force in contacting another player. It can happen during play. It doesn't have to occur after a whistle.

Evans was moving the puck on a wraparound. Both hands were on his stick. He had no way to protect himself from the hit.

It was close, yes. But Sheifele was far enough away that it was unlikely he was going to prevent that goal. He also knew, or should have known, that if he made contact with Evans, that he was getting a penalty nonetheless.

I like the hustle. Every guy should play that hard. But he took the body instead of going for the puck. Even you admitted that. The only way he was stopping that goal without a penalty was if he poked the puck away and let up on the contact. He did neither. 

It sucks, but players are expected to do their best to protect one another. This isn't the first time a "hockey hit" resulted in disciplinary action and it won't be the last.

32 minutes ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

The whistle had not blown, Schiefele had stopped his strides 15' prior to impact, and the hit was shoulder to chest.  The proof that this play was very arguably clean is the official at the goal line keeping his hand down.  If it was egregious, the arm would have gone up immediately.

If he stopped skating 15 feet prior to impact, then he had plenty of time to play the puck and/or let up on the hit (which players are expected to do now). He did neither. That's why he got suspended.

[Gniwder 168]

9 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Charging is essentially a personal foul. It resulted in a player injury. That's the whole point of the DoPS: Handing out disciplinary action in these types of scenarios.

IMHO I wouldn't call it a charge at all. Scheifele was doing exactly what he was supposed to, rushing to make a defensive play. That's not traveling a great distance for the purpose of leveling a hit. Furthermore, as both Scott and I have pointed out, Scheifele stops taking strides about 15 ft prior to contact. At the same time bringing his stick in and bracing for the hit. That's the moment he decides he's no longer racing back; he's taking the body. And he does exactly what he should do in that moment: lets off the gas and stops taking strides.

The only way you can argue it's a charge is because of the distance traveled. But there's many similar scenarios where players travel great distances and make contact - and those aren't considered charges. Because they're racing for the puck or something like this. The play lacks the intention of traveling far just to make a hit. Exactly the same in this case.

Calling charging on that play is a very weak/questionable call.

22 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Roughing occurs when a player uses unnecessary force in contacting another player. It can happen during play. It doesn't have to occur after a whistle.

A clean hit isn't considered roughing.

23 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Evans was moving the puck on a wraparound. Both hands were on his stick. He had no way to protect himself from the hit.

What are you even talking about? This isn't a thing.

Performing a wraparound doesn't exempt you from contact. And I'm willing to bet 9/10 players hit ever have both hands on their stick when receiving contact. Why? Cause they almost always have the puck or have just released it. Go watch Kronwall's hits. Nearly every victim: both hands on stick.

Where do you even come up with this stuff?

30 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

It was close, yes. But Sheifele was far enough away that it was unlikely he was going to prevent that goal. He also knew, or should have known, that if he made contact with Evans, that he was getting a penalty nonetheless.

Not at all. The most frustrating part about the play is not the big clean hit, it's the fact that Scheifele was well within reach and timing to make a stick play and prevent the goal, and didn't do it.

However, had he played the puck, the two are absolutely still gonna collide. And there should be no call for that contact either.

35 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I like the hustle. Every guy should play that hard. But he took the body instead of going for the puck. Even you admitted that. The only way he was stopping that goal without a penalty was if he poked the puck away and let up on the contact. He did neither.

I suspect the call that Scheifele made on the play was to protect himself. You do that by stop taking strides and bracing for impact. Exactly what he did. If he makes the poke play the collision still occurs - but now with him in an extended, awkward, position. Evans sacrificed his body to make the play. Scheifele did the opposite. Opting to hit instead of collide awkwardly. And if I'm Paul Maurice I would have words with him - not about hurting an opponent - but about not being willing to sacrifice the body to make that play. That's what little ******* do.

[Gniwder 168]

Re-watching the hit and paying attention to where Evans is. The moment Evans retrieves the puck and it's clear he's taking it far side for the wrap around, Scheifele stops skating. Stops skating at the top of the circle. Big hit, but absolutely clean and within the rules.

Evans knew those defenders were baring down on him and made the play regardless. Good on him.

>Play still live
>Player has the puck
>Doesn't accelerate into the hit
>Shoulder to chest contact

Absolutely clean and legal.

[Scott R Lucidi 454]

Thats how I see it too.  Schiefele can dive and poke check to dave the goal, more likely injuring himself crashing into the boards, post, or Evans' skates.  He chooses to slow up and try to check Evans before he can get around the net.  He doesnt get there in time to stop the goal, but does deliver a perfectly legal hit.  Evans was willing to sacrifice, Schiefele wasnt.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

56 minutes ago, Gniwder said:

What are you even talking about? This isn't a thing.

Performing a wraparound doesn't exempt you from contact. And I'm willing to bet 9/10 players hit ever have both hands on their stick when receiving contact. Why? Cause they almost always have the puck or have just released it. Go watch Kronwall's hits. Nearly every victim: both hands on stick.

Where do you even come up with this stuff?

I didn't say that a wraparound exempts you from contact. But Evans was still in a position where he could not protect himself nonetheless. And the league takes that into account when handing out discipline. You can't demolish a defenseless player. Period.

If a defenseman is standing in front of the net and checks Evans as he is coming around the net, that would be a legal hit. And Evans would have seen him there, and expected the hit, before attempting the wraparound. Entirely different scenario.

Scheifele was near the blue line when Evans had the puck. Evans either never saw him, or saw him but was expecting a poke check or for Scheifele to let up on the hit. Neither happened. That's the problem.

36 minutes ago, Gniwder said:

Absolutely clean and legal.

Which is why he was suspended?

Edited June 5, 2021 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[F.Michael 4,590]

8 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Apparently, he has no disciplinary history. I would agree that a 4 game suspension is excessive.

2 would’ve been adequate 

[F.Michael 4,590]

8 hours ago, Gniwder said:

I don't feel sorry for him. My playoff team is the Habs this year. @Akakabuto, @marcaractac, and @F.Michael can vouch for that.

 

 

Yes - I can vouch for this.

He even went on to say that he’ll change his last name to Bergevin if the Habs win the Cup.

[Gniwder 168]

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I didn't say that a wraparound exempts you from contact. But Evans was still in a position where he could not protect himself nonetheless. And the league takes that into account when handing out discipline. You can't demolish a defenseless player. Period.

Absolute from between your cheeks bollocks. Please explain to me how Evans is anymore defenseless than when Kronwall slept Havlat? Does standing next to the net instead of the half wall somehow magically make Evans unable to defend himself? A defenseless hit is taking someone from behind or hitting a guy already down. None of that happens here. Scheifele is square to the shooter and lays shoulder to chest.

So far you've cited wrap around: not exempt from a hit
And having two hands on his stick (lol what?): not exempt from a hit

Please reach deep into your crack and give me your next lame excuse about how Evans is turned 9 degrees north making him ineligible to be hit.

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

If a defenseman is standing in front of the net and checks Evans as he is coming around the net, that would be a legal hit. And Evans would have seen him there, and expected the hit, before attempting the wraparound. Entirely different scenario.

Oh wait... so Evans wasn't defenseless now? Cause if a Dman had done it it would be legal... oh okay. Makes total sense...

I also wasn't aware that players receiving a hit have to be made aware that a hit is coming. News to me. Maybe Scheifele should have called out to Evans and let him know he was about to hit him? I know Konstantinov used to do that "watch out comrade I will hit you now!".

Honestly, where are you pulling this make believe from? If you want to argue it's a charging call lets just do that and forget this BS.

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Scheifele was near the blue line when Evans had the puck. Evans either never saw him, or saw him but was expecting a poke check or for Scheifele to let up on the hit. Neither happened. That's the problem.

100% false. Re-watch the hit. Scheifele is already between the hash marks half way through the circle when Evans first touches the puck. But you are correct, Evans never once picks his head up before or after retrieving the puck to look down ice at what's coming at him. But that is exactly zero percent of Scheifele's problem. You skate with the puck and your head down you're asking to get leveled. There is absolutely no rule that Scheifele can't take the body on that play. The only argument you can make is for charging, and I'm happy to dive deep and hash out exactly why the play isn't charging either.