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The 91 of Ryans

New New Prospects Thread

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19 minutes ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

2 things:

1) The rest of the teams caught up to us in European scouting.  There are no secrets over there anymore.

2) A player drafted past pick #20 has almost zero chance of having a solid NHL career.  That's just the way it is.  Once in a while, you might find a needle in the haystack.  But it's a crap shoot.  

Well aware on both counts. Like I said yesterday I dont mind missing on late round picks but I do mind going o-fer in 60+ attempts since Nyquist. I bet every team in the league has more hits in R3+ since 2008 then the Red Wings. Luckily SY is about to hit a homerun with his 6 round pick in 2019 Soderblom.

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14 minutes ago, redw1ngs said:

Well aware on both counts. Like I said yesterday I dont mind missing on late round picks but I do mind going o-fer in 60+ attempts since Nyquist. I bet every team in the league has more hits in R3+ since 2008 then the Red Wings. Luckily SY is about to hit a homerun with his 6 round pick in 2019 Soderblom.

word.

 

https://sanjosehockeynow.com/san-jose-sharks-linus-oberg-ufa-free-agent-rights/

 

Sven, how do you feel about this guy?

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10 minutes ago, redw1ngs said:

Well aware on both counts. Like I said yesterday I dont mind missing on late round picks but I do mind going o-fer in 60+ attempts since Nyquist. I bet every team in the league has more hits in R3+ since 2008 then the Red Wings. Luckily SY is about to hit a homerun with his 6 round pick in 2019 Soderblom.

Since 2008 I'd consider both AA and Jensen hits (4th and 5th rounds respectively) that were drafted by Holland. You'd also think Regula (3rd) will play in the NHL as well given he's been pretty solid in the AHL. Under Yzerman we've drafted better in the late rounds, though I'd attribute that to the pandemic. Players weren't scouted as well, and better players fell. Sodorblom, Sebrango, Viro, Mazur, Savage, and Zito all have a shot at playing in the NHL. Some better than others.

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6 hours ago, redw1ngs said:

Stacked LD but RD looks pretty wide open. I said before tho Cotton shoulda switched to RW would have a much better shot at cracking a NHL lineup as a W then D imo. Either way no big loss with him or Eliasson/Kivenmaki.

Side note- this org used to be the best in the biz at drafting talent deep in the draft. It feels like weve been the worst for the past decade or so its been real bad. We havent had a significant hit top6F/top4D beyond R2 since 2008 when we drafted Nyquist in R4. We havent even had many R2 hits outside of Bert and Hronek- 2 players most of the fan base wants traded. SY needs to find a Kucherov/Point in R2/3 to get this team back on top.

We need to poach Yzerman's scouting staff from Tampa

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13 minutes ago, TLGTrico said:

We need to poach Yzerman's scouting staff from Tampa

Al Murray is supposedly the brains over there. Dont think we or Verbeek will be getting him. 

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3 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Since 2008 I'd consider both AA and Jensen hits (4th and 5th rounds respectively) that were drafted by Holland. You'd also think Regula (3rd) will play in the NHL as well given he's been pretty solid in the AHL. Under Yzerman we've drafted better in the late rounds, though I'd attribute that to the pandemic. Players weren't scouted as well, and better players fell. Sodorblom, Sebrango, Viro, Mazur, Savage, and Zito all have a shot at playing in the NHL. Some better than others.

Like I said in the previous post Im talking top6F/top4D not players that simply made it.

AA was for a couple seasons but I wouldnt consider AA or Jensen impact players also wouldnt count on Regula making it anything more then bottom2D.

Every year fans talk about d+1 players that have a shot at making it. Give it another year and half those players will be forgotten just like every other year. The only 2 Im counting on from that bunch now are Soderblom and Mazur the rest are garb.

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3 hours ago, redw1ngs said:

Like I said in the previous post Im talking top6F/top4D not players that simply made it.

AA was for a couple seasons but I wouldnt consider AA or Jensen impact players also wouldnt count on Regula making it anything more then bottom2D.

Every year fans talk about d+1 players that have a shot at making it. Give it another year and half those players will be forgotten just like every other year. The only 2 Im counting on from that bunch now are Soderblom and Mazur the rest are garb.

Berggren seems to be legit

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13 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Berggren seems to be legit

Lets hope but hes also a high R2 pick.

SY needs to find elite players outside the top50 like he did twice in Tampa. Its almost expected that top4 6 even 8 picks be top line/top pair players. To get back on top we need to find those players beyond R1/2.

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25 minutes ago, redw1ngs said:

Lets hope but hes also a high R2 pick.

SY needs to find elite players outside the top50 like he did twice in Tampa. Its almost expected that top4 6 even 8 picks be top line/top pair players. To get back on top we need to find those players beyond R1/2.

I think we are better off overpaying them in UFA whike we have cap space

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16 minutes ago, redw1ngs said:

Lets hope but hes also a high R2 pick.

SY needs to find elite players outside the top50 like he did twice in Tampa. Its almost expected that top4 6 even 8 picks be top line/top pair players. To get back on top we need to find those players beyond R1/2.

Dont really care what round they come from. Just gotta draft as many as we can. 

So far SY hasnt whiffed on any first rounders, which is big considering Hollands history of choices. At least make those 1sts count big and the draft is a sucess. Everything after is a bonus. 

If we can nab another piece on the same level as Ray, Ed, and Mo this year we will be sitting pretty pony boy. 

There will be plenty of Wallinders, Johanssons, Cossas, Berggrens, and Soderbloms to fill in the gaps after that 

1 minute ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

I think we are better off overpaying them in UFA whike we have cap space

1. Acquire multiple $10 mil forwards

2. Put them all on the same line

3. Ignore the rest of the roster

4. Profit

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57 minutes ago, bIueadams said:

Dont really care what round they come from. Just gotta draft as many as we can. 

So far SY hasnt whiffed on any first rounders, which is big considering Hollands history of choices. At least make those 1sts count big and the draft is a sucess. Everything after is a bonus. 

If we can nab another piece on the same level as Ray, Ed, and Mo this year we will be sitting pretty pony boy. 

There will be plenty of Wallinders, Johanssons, Cossas, Berggrens, and Soderbloms to fill in the gaps after that 

1. Acquire multiple $10 mil forwards

2. Put them all on the same line

3. Ignore the rest of the roster

4. Profit

exactly

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10 hours ago, bIueadams said:

Dont really care what round they come from. Just gotta draft as many as we can. 

So far SY hasnt whiffed on any first rounders, which is big considering Hollands history of choices. At least make those 1sts count big and the draft is a sucess. Everything after is a bonus. 

If we can nab another piece on the same level as Ray, Ed, and Mo this year we will be sitting pretty pony boy. 

There will be plenty of Wallinders, Johanssons, Cossas, Berggrens, and Soderbloms to fill in the gaps after that 

1. Acquire multiple $10 mil forwards

2. Put them all on the same line

3. Ignore the rest of the roster

4. Profit

Hit on as many as we can would imply that you need to hit on later round picks which is exactly what Im saying. Unless your acquiring multiple R1 picks which is what SY should be doing. 

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2 hours ago, redw1ngs said:

Hit on as many as we can

Its a little like saying we should score as many goals as we can right? Surprise it needs to be said.

2 hours ago, redw1ngs said:

Unless your acquiring multiple R1 picks which is what SY should be doing. 

Not really. My point was that if you can nail your 1sts your golden. You should still do all you can in later rounds, its just a crapshoot down there. 

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2 hours ago, bIueadams said:

Its a little like saying we should score as many goals as we can right? Surprise it needs to be said.

Not really. My point was that if you can nail your 1sts your golden. You should still do all you can in later rounds, its just a crapshoot down there. 

You want to hit on as many picks as you can but your likely only gonna hit on R1 picks and not trade for any more R1 picks.

If the draft was such a crapshoot why bother making the selections why not just assign players to teams out of a hat? Theres obv skill involved in drafting in the later rounds SY has proven to have that skill in the past on multiple occasions. I just want him to show that same skill in Detroit hopefully he already has with Johansson Wallinder Soderblom etc.

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1 hour ago, redw1ngs said:

You want to hit on as many picks as you can but your likely only gonna hit on R1 picks and not trade for any more R1 picks.

If the draft was such a crapshoot why bother making the selections why not just assign players to teams out of a hat? Theres obv skill involved in drafting in the later rounds SY has proven to have that skill in the past on multiple occasions. I just want him to show that same skill in Detroit hopefully he already has with Johansson Wallinder Soderblom etc.

Ur jumping to extremes here. Im not suggesting drafting in the later rounds doesnt take skill. Im saying its statistically unlikely these players will ever play, enough that you shouldnt count on these picks in your grand strategy. Land your 1sts and everything else is bonus. 

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1 hour ago, bIueadams said:

Ur jumping to extremes here. Im not suggesting drafting in the later rounds doesnt take skill. Im saying its statistically unlikely these players will ever play, enough that you shouldnt count on these picks in your grand strategy. Land your 1sts and everything else is bonus. 

Yup.  You have 9 positions on a team that need to be rock solid.  Your first 2 lines and your first 3 defensemen.  If your GM cant fill in the rest of the roster spots with UFAs and later round picks, then the GM is performing poorly.  

 

Vrana, Larkin, Raymond, Bertuzzi

Edvinsson, Seider

 

We are currently missing (3) pieces of that puzzle.  The only way Yzerman can for sure fill one of those 9 spots in the upcoming draft is to somehow grab Jiricek.  Wright and Jiricek are the only 2 guys right now that look ready for NHL duty at some point in the 22-23 season. 

 

Lets say we trade Zadina + 8oa for 4oa and we get Jiricek.  Then we are a center and a wing away from the 9 rock solid spots.  Sign Forsberg.  Tank for Bedard.  Rebuild over starting 23-24 season.  Now all Yzerman needs to do is mold the bottom 6 and last 3 defensemen.  His available players there are Veleno, Berggren, Rasmussen, Fabri, Sundqvist, Soderblom, Smith, Hronek, Lindstrom, Walman, Juolevi, Johansson, Wallinder.  

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6 hours ago, bIueadams said:

Ur jumping to extremes here. Im not suggesting drafting in the later rounds doesnt take skill. Im saying its statistically unlikely these players will ever play, enough that you shouldnt count on these picks in your grand strategy. Land your 1sts and everything else is bonus. 

Statistically unlikely when talking 1 late round pick sure but what about 60+ picks rounds 2-7 in 10+ years? Weve been bad at hitting on these later round picks we need to be better. SY needs to bring some of that magic he had in TB. I disagree that you can build a contender without hitting on at least some later round picks. No team builds a contender with just R1 picks.

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24 minutes ago, redw1ngs said:

Statistically unlikely when talking 1 late round pick sure but what about 60+ picks rounds 2-7 in 10+ years? Weve been bad at hitting on these later round picks we need to be better. SY needs to bring some of that magic he had in TB. I disagree that you can build a contender without hitting on at least some later round picks. No team builds a contender with just R1 picks.

Colorado has (13) 1st rounders out of (26) roster players.  Youre absolutely 100% wrong on this.  ALL winning teams build around their first round picks.  This isnt 1989-91 with defecting Russian hall of famers going in the 4th round.  In todays game, you got 3-5 picks that are surefire impact players, another 15 that are surefire NHL steadies, and then you enter the needle in a haystack range past pick 20.  For every Bertuzzi that blossoms, there are 50 second rounders that wither and die.  Just the way it is.

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20 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Colorado has (13) 1st rounders out of (26) roster players.  Youre absolutely 100% wrong on this.  ALL winning teams build around their first round picks.  This isnt 1989-91 with defecting Russian hall of famers going in the 4th round.  In todays game, you got 3-5 picks that are surefire impact players, another 15 that are surefire NHL steadies, and then you enter the needle in a haystack range past pick 20.  For every Bertuzzi that blossoms, there are 50 second rounders that wither and die.  Just the way it is.

Ya you build around your R1 picks. No one is saying build a team any other way. Were going to build around Larkin Vrana Raymond Seider Edvinsson all R1 picks. Thats our core 5 players. Are we gonna wait another 5 years worth of R1 picks to round out our top6F/top4D or are we going to hope/need to hit on at least a couple later round picks? Or make trades to acquire more R1 picks or former R1 players? 

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28 minutes ago, redw1ngs said:

Ya you build around your R1 picks. No one is saying build a team any other way. Were going to build around Larkin Vrana Raymond Seider Edvinsson all R1 picks. Thats our core 5 players. Are we gonna wait another 5 years worth of R1 picks to round out our top6F/top4D or are we going to hope/need to hit on at least a couple later round picks? Or make trades to acquire more R1 picks or former R1 players? 

Great question.  We struck out on Lindholm.  Do we strike out on Forsberg?  Yzerman has taken on zero risk with the former first rounders he has signed so far, but has also received next to zero reward.  I would love to see us draft Jiricek, sign Forsberg, then completely throw all our games next year for Bedard.  

 

Vrana-Bedard-Forsberg

Bertuzzi-Larkin-Raymond

Berggren-Veleno-Fabri

Soderblom-Rasmussen-Sundqvist

Smith/Hirose

 

Johansson-Seider

Edvinsson-Hronek

Walman-Lindstrom

Wallinder

 

Ned

Cossa

 

We are contenders with that line up.

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2 hours ago, redw1ngs said:

Statistically unlikely when talking 1 late round pick sure but what about 60+ picks rounds 2-7 in 10+ years? Weve been bad at hitting on these later round picks we need to be better. SY needs to bring some of that magic he had in TB. I disagree that you can build a contender without hitting on at least some later round picks. No team builds a contender with just R1 picks.

 

1 hour ago, redw1ngs said:

Ya you build around your R1 picks. No one is saying build a team any other way. Were going to build around Larkin Vrana Raymond Seider Edvinsson all R1 picks. Thats our core 5 players. Are we gonna wait another 5 years worth of R1 picks to round out our top6F/top4D or are we going to hope/need to hit on at least a couple later round picks? Or make trades to acquire more R1 picks or former R1 players? 

>no team builds around just 1st round picks

>ya you build around your first round picks

Yawn

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1 hour ago, bIueadams said:

 

>no team builds around just 1st round picks

>ya you build around your first round picks

Yawn

he misspoke.  he meant that we cant draft and play 20 first rounders.

 

But thats kind of captain obvious too.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

he misspoke.  he meant that we cant draft and play 20 first rounders.

 

But thats kind of captain obvious too.

 

 

>You need to draft good in all rounds

I thought we drove the r slurs nerds and youth from this board long ago

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8 hours ago, bIueadams said:

 

>no team builds around just 1st round picks

>ya you build around your first round picks

Yawn

'build' and 'build around' are 2 very diffrent things. A core of a team is usually what 4 or 5 players? Thats usually your high R1 picks. Your not rounding out top6F/top4D with just R1 picks also need to hit on some later round picks. Were all hoping Berggren Soderblom Wallinder Johansson are those top of the lineup later round picks but nothings certain with any those players either.

7 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

he misspoke.  he meant that we cant draft and play 20 first rounders.

 

But thats kind of captain obvious too.

 

 

Not what I meant.

7 hours ago, bIueadams said:

>You need to draft good in all rounds

I thought we drove the r slurs nerds and youth from this board long ago

Your saying we dont need to draft good in all rounds? Every team spending millions on scouting would disagree. Why do gms acquire picks beyond R1? Why do we even have a draft beyond R1?

If you think this team has been good enough finding players in the later rounds i disagree.

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