2024 Offseason Thread

[kipwinger 8,560]

Just now, Scott R Lucidi said:

50+ mil hard to turn down.

I've been wrong many times before, so maybe I'm galaxy braining this. But I think it's a little easier to turn that money down if you think you're going to get 10+ million per year (on an 8 year deal) when you're 27.

[stephen-gregory-yzerman 100]

2 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I'd be surprised if either Raymond or Seider sign 8 year deals. Raymond's offense kicked into hyperdrive at the end of the season after being pedestrian the two previous years. Seider's offense suffered from the hardest usage in the league. It's pretty easy to imagine a reality where the next three seasons are miles more productive than the last three and their value skyrockets. So why would they want to be locked in long term at a lower value? I think both these deals fall in the 4-5 year range just in time for their big payday in UFA.

Stability/guaranteed money is why Ray and Seider would sign longterm. The exact reason you stated is why Yzerman should do everything in his power to convince them to sign longterm. These 2 are studs and would be worth every penny of the aforementioned contract and might be enough to entice them to put pen to paper.

2 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I've been wrong many times before, so maybe I'm galaxy braining this. But I think it's a little easier to turn that money down if you think you're going to get 10+ million per year (on an 8 year deal) when you're 27.

Injuries are still a thing and while its probly not on the young invincible players mind it should be on the agents mind.

[Scott R Lucidi 535]

6 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I've been wrong many times before, so maybe I'm galaxy braining this. But I think it's a little easier to turn that money down if you think you're going to get 10+ million per year (on an 8 year deal) when you're 27.

Im thinking the talk goes like this:

SCAM: Lucas, we want you to retire a Red Wing.  That's how we do it in Detroit.  We are thinking 8 years, 50 million.  Then another 8 years, 56 million. 

Raymond: Done.

[Axl Foley 253]

20 hours ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

Im thinking the talk goes like this:

SCAM: Lucas, we want you to retire a Red Wing.  That's how we do it in Detroit.  We are thinking 8 years, 50 million.  Then another 8 years, 56 million. 

Raymond: Done.

 No

[Scott R Lucidi 535]

21 minutes ago, Axl Foley said:

 No

How do u think the convo goes?

[Axl Foley 253]

24 minutes ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

How do u think the convo goes?

By not offering 16 total years to a 22 year old player. Not even sure that is possible.

Edited May 19 by Axl Foley

[Scott R Lucidi 535]

6 hours ago, Axl Foley said:

By not offering 16 total years to a 22 year old player. Not even sure that is possible.

If youre the SCAM, what do u offer?

[LeftWinger 4,975]

What we know: Raymond and Seider won't be going anywhere but here. No matter the price or term.

What I wish: Kane and Stamkos are Red Wings. 

Rumor has it Pesce might explore UFA.

[diehardredwingsfan58 144]

9 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

What we know: Raymond and Seider won't be going anywhere but here. No matter the price or term.

What I wish: Kane and Stamkos are Red Wings. 

Rumor has it Pesce might explore UFA.

Waddell wants to re-sign Guentzel and Jarvis both will get big money. So he'll trade Martin Necas and let Brett Pesce walk.

[LeftWinger 4,975]

18 hours ago, diehardredwingsfan58 said:

Waddell wants to re-sign Guentzel and Jarvis both will get big money. So he'll trade Martin Necas and let Brett Pesce walk.

Interesting. Wonder what the return would look like for Necas RFA rights and Pesce UFA rights?

Edited May 21 by LeftWinger

[diehardredwingsfan58 144]

On 5/21/2024 at 11:20 AM, LeftWinger said:

Interesting. Wonder what the return would look like for Necas RFA rights and Pesce UFA rights?

I'd do a 3rd for Brett Pesces UFA rights, Kind of hard to tell on Martin Necas probably have to start with your 2024 1st at the very least. Not really sure what the Canes needs would be. If they'd be seeking D prospects or forward prospects. Maybe something like the 1st and Berggren and Wallinder with a cap dump to open up cap space to sign Necas.

[Scott R Lucidi 535]

Looks like Buffalo is making a push for Kane and Gostisbehere.  Im ok with both of them being gone, tbh.

[LeftWinger 4,975]

21 hours ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

Looks like Buffalo is making a push for Kane and Gostisbehere.  Im ok with both of them being gone, tbh.

How are they making a push? Are they looking to acquire their UFA rights?

I honestly can see a scenario where they are both back in Detroit, along with Perron. They just want term. Obviously they aren't gonna sign for minimum, but with term, they AAV can be less. 

Kane 3x$5M

Ghost 3x$4M

Perron 2x$2M (with a job with the team after)

You get Raymond and Seider signed for 8 yrs each at a combined $15M-$17M. Then you sell off a couple of contracts (or buyout) to be able to bring up a few kids and re-sign Berggren and Veleno. 

The cap will continue to rise over the next three years, giving you room to re-sign the Kasper’s, Danielson's and Mazur's of the team.

Who else to better mentor Berggren than Kane? I feel it's of utmost importance to get him re-signed.

[Scott R Lucidi 535]

28 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

How are they making a push? Are they looking to acquire their UFA rights?

I honestly can see a scenario where they are both back in Detroit, along with Perron. They just want term. Obviously they aren't gonna sign for minimum, but with term, they AAV can be less. 

Kane 3x$5M

Ghost 3x$4M

Perron 2x$2M (with a job with the team after)

You get Raymond and Seider signed for 8 yrs each at a combined $15M-$17M. Then you sell off a couple of contracts (or buyout) to be able to bring up a few kids and re-sign Berggren and Veleno. 

The cap will continue to rise over the next three years, giving you room to re-sign the Kasper’s, Danielson's and Mazur's of the team.

Who else to better mentor Berggren than Kane? I feel it's of utmost importance to get him re-signed.

Gotta stave off Buffalo's push, tho.

[TLGTrico 632]

4 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

How are they making a push? Are they looking to acquire their UFA rights?

I honestly can see a scenario where they are both back in Detroit, along with Perron. They just want term. Obviously they aren't gonna sign for minimum, but with term, they AAV can be less. 

Kane 3x$5M

Ghost 3x$4M

Perron 2x$2M (with a job with the team after)

You get Raymond and Seider signed for 8 yrs each at a combined $15M-$17M. Then you sell off a couple of contracts (or buyout) to be able to bring up a few kids and re-sign Berggren and Veleno. 

The cap will continue to rise over the next three years, giving you room to re-sign the Kasper’s, Danielson's and Mazur's of the team.

Who else to better mentor Berggren than Kane? I feel it's of utmost importance to get him re-signed.

Giving Kane 3 years could potentially be disastrous.  Signing ghost for three more years does nothing but further block defensive prospects for making the team

[LeftWinger 4,975]

4 hours ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

Gotta stave off Buffalo's push, tho.

Detroit has much more to offer both of them.

[LeftWinger 4,975]

31 minutes ago, TLGTrico said:

Giving Kane 3 years could potentially be disastrous.  Signing ghost for three more years does nothing but further block defensive prospects for making the team

Who does it block? If you get rid of 2 D contracts that leaves plenty of room. Edvinsson and Johansson will be here next season, they aren't being blocked in you sign Ghost for 3 years. Once Maatta falls off the books in a year and Chiarot in 2, there's room for ASP and another. They may not even re-sign Walman when his contract is up.

Kane 3x5 makes sense for player development. Healthy he's still a PPG player. Even if he falls off in year 3 to .5 PPG he's still super valuable to the young players. $5M AAV isn't bad either.

[Scott R Lucidi 535]

On 4/2/2024 at 5:27 PM, kipwinger said:

I think it's fair to say that the Stanley Cup winning, Jack Adams winning, veteran coach with the reputation for getting a whole lot out of marginal rosters would be a better option right now than the rookie coach who's still trying to figure out how to run a NHL bench and locker room.

I think it's okay to admit that you think Lalonde is a better long term option, or that he'll get better. Just don't kid yourself that he's comparable right now to one of the league's most accomplished veteran coaches.

But I'm mostly being cheeky with you. Both Lalonde and Torts are comfortably employed. I just wish Derek were willing to be a little harder on the team. Some guys do respond well to the Ted Lasso style of coaching. And many others just need a kick in the ass. I think we fans sometimes forget that more than a few of these players are Western Canadian hicks, or South Boston trash bags, or whatever and they need a little more than "awww shucks, I know you've got more in you" to get motivated.

At the very least I know they'd finish a goddamn check under Torts.

 

 

 

I'm with this.  I like that Torts at least will say "This guy SUCKED tonight and make an adjustment for the next game to send a message."  Lalonde is a stoolie, so that's never going to happen.  Jeff Petry and Ben Chiarot go minus 4 in a 6-1 loss and are on the ice for 5 of the opponent's goals, and NOTHING CHANGES for the next game.  20 more minutes the next game together.  All you have to do is watch 3 consecutive games against teams in the top 20 with a focus on what #8 and #46 do inside our blue line, and you will see that these 2 guys create 90% of this team's solvable issues.  It's not like trying to solve a rubix cube or decipher hieroglyphics.  It's like doing a 3 picture draw a line associating in pre-school.  Match the defender to his suckiness level = 1) Seider, 2) Chiarot, 3) Petry.  Answers: A) Good Defender, B) Lazy and Sucks, C) Lazy, Sucks, and Has 2 Years Left of a Terrible Contract.  Draw a line to the description that fits.  The SCAM put Lalonde in a no win situation.  He can't just sit 10% of our salary cap and tell the GM that these 2 players aren't the best option we have.  He has to play the guys the GM signs.  But damn it.  Torts wouldn't.  Torts would be in the GM's office screaming and letting the press know that these guys gotta step up or their butts are gonna be in the press box regardless.  We don't need a "nice guy" coach.  We need a guy that optimizes the line up and drives them to excel.  We didn't get that last year.  Let's see what 2024-25 brings.  Johansson and Edvinsson gotta come up.  Maatta and Holl are still under contract.  I have a feeling that Jeff Petry will not see the same workload.  And I also think that Ben Chiarot will have his minutes reduced greatly.  Those 2 things should help.  Walman-Seider, Edvinsson-Johansson, Maatta-Holl would be the optimal line up as of now.

[TLGTrico 632]

6 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Who does it block? If you get rid of 2 D contracts that leaves plenty of room. Edvinsson and Johansson will be here next season, they aren't being blocked in you sign Ghost for 3 years. Once Maatta falls off the books in a year and Chiarot in 2, there's room for ASP and another. They may not even re-sign Walman when his contract is up.

Kane 3x5 makes sense for player development. Healthy he's still a PPG player. Even if he falls off in year 3 to .5 PPG he's still super valuable to the young players. $5M AAV isn't bad either.

There's no telling when Kane's going to start falling off.  For all we know it could be as soon as next season.   Bringing back Ghost and moving two other guys likely still leaves Johansson as the 7th d

[Scott R Lucidi 535]

2 hours ago, TLGTrico said:

There's no telling when Kane's going to start falling off.  For all we know it could be as soon as next season.   Bringing back Ghost and moving two other guys likely still leaves Johansson as the 7th d

Chiarot and Petry being roster guys at defense creates the big problem.  If we can make them 4th line forwards, it opens up a whole realm of possibilities.  The SCAM needs to see this.

[Jimmybigrigs69 92]

For the 300th time, SY and Newsy both want to improve team defense. Ghost is an overpriced PP specialist, and by far the worst defender at actually playing defense on the team. He won't be back. And his PP spot will go to Edvinsson.

Kane im sure is wanted back. But SY is still thinking beyond next season, and im sure is very hesitant to give a 35 year old a contract with term. Probably gone, but there remains a chance he's back.

It would be VERY much like Buffalo to dump all their rebuilding money into an aged superstar like Kane and flawed defender like Ghost. Watch Kane regress to a 50 pt slow winger and the Sabres Dcorp get even worse with Ghost. 

They should be out investing in steady core guys like Copp and Chiarot, but Buffalo is too smooth brained for that

[LeftWinger 4,975]

Our future goalie headed home from.GRR to YEG (Edmonton)

[LeftWinger 4,975]

52 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Our future goalie headed home from.GRR to YEG (Edmonton)

[Scott R Lucidi 535]

4 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Sweet.  I want a seabass stick.

[LeftWinger 4,975]

2 hours ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

Sweet.  I want a seabass stick.

Well I had them in my hands! But not worth losing my job of 30 years!