We need Helm. His contract is a bit high but let's not judge the player based on his salary cap over his on-ice contributions. Particularly if this season he's utilized on the PK and for his speed and chaos, and not as a playmaker or goal scorer.
Lol this article is meaningless. Let's ask a very small sample size some questions about every team, most of which they're inequipped to answer, and then draw conclusions from this data. How does this s*** get published? I'm done with this thread lol
The biggest issue I think is our lack of franchise players. Datsyuk is done. Kronwall and Zetterberg are shells of their former selves and should probably be solid complimentary pieces at his stage in their careers instead of heavy lifters. We have potentially Larkin and potentially Mrazek coming in to fill big roles, but even with their early promise they're both still big "IFs" and it still puts us down one franchise defensman and one franchise forward. Those types don't make it to free agency. They're very rarely traded. And unless you have a top 3 overall pick they're tough to pluck out of the sea of mediocrity that is the draft. Statistically our best bet is unfortunately probably to hope for finding a star in the draft. Who was the last franchise guy to make it to free agency? Praise and Suter? And even when that rare moment happened you're still competing with a handful of other teams for these type of players. Trading a franchise guy has become less common since parity redistributed the odds of success in the league. Why should a bottom-feeder drop their 1st line center for prospects and picks if they're only 4 points out of a playoffs spot in February? How often does that happen these days? Subban was traded. But he was traded for Weber.
I mean if I was GM I'm not sure my main strategy would be much different from Holland's. I wouldn't necessarily be locking up all this bottom-six talent, but I think my main focus for landing a franchise player would continue to be in the draft, and just keep vigilant on those rare moments if and when a big fish becomes available in the league.
Agreed with the bold but we've been progressively getting worse and locking much of the same roster. Which is why I'm not surprised at the rating. Even the most level headed fans are wondering why certain things are going on. You know it's true too.
We like our team.
I mean I agree. I'm not happy with where they're at and thing more needs to be done to bring in players we lack. But I feel like naming more than nine teams in worse shape than us isn't remotely far fetched. And I also hate the "we're happy to make the first round and call it a year" argument. Especially if it's followed by some form of "Wings just need to miss the playoffs that will fix everything", (which admittedly didn't happen in this thread, but has def been occurring more frequently than it should and I'm generally in a bad mood right now anyway so I'm going to ***** about whatever I want).
Ive never been able to understand this whole "content to make the playoffs and fold" argument. I don't think anyone is content just making the playoffs. The players have all been vocal about it, it diminishes Holland's reputation, and the Illitches get less income from postseason revenue. Everyone's best interest is going as deep in the playoffs as possible. Holland hasn't had the best success over the past decade at getting our team to take that next step, but treading water while we continue to look for the right fit is a hell of a lot better than drowning, which seems to be what at least a few folks would rather see. I don't know if there's this mindset that missing the playoffs would someone free the shackles from management's arms and allow them to improve the team, like its somehow not possible to improve while still making the playoffs, but trying to make logic of it makes my brain sad.
In any event, I'm surprised the rating is that low. To say that there are only nine teams managed worse than the Wings seems like our fan base is made up of a bunch of prima donnas. Actually on second thought maybe that rating is right where I should expect it.
The PK under Babcock was fine up until 2011 or so. Things started changing to more passive/ "shot block to save a goal" bullcrap once we started transitioning from Datsyuk/Zetterberg to Miller, Eaves, then Glendening. It's fine, we didn't have anyone to fill in for D and Z's role. But now with Larkin, AA, and Helm signed for 5 years, there is absolutely no excuse not to use capable speedy, skilled players on the PK.
One thing I liked about Draper more than Glendening/Miller was not only was Draper a good defensive 3rd/4th liner but the guy knew how to drive offense and often times converted his PK time into offensive opportunities. His 21 shorthanded goals and Selke trophy as a damn 4th liner (unheard of) speaks for itself.
Despite all the flak he gets (and likely myself too because I'm bringing it up) but Darren Helm was that guy in the first half of his career. He would get short handed breakaways on a regular basis. Might not convert on most of them, but at the very least if you're skating the puck down into the other zone I would call that effective penalty killing. I am 100% on board with Helm getting some more PK time along with some of these younger kids who are a threat to tilt the ice in the opposite direction.
Wow quite a lot of money. He has to be one of the most enigmatic players for LGW. On one hand he's a fourth liner. Period. On the other, Babcock and now Blashill are more than comfortable giving him extended minutes in all situations atypical for a fourth liner. One coach doing it is maybe poor judgement, but two? I'm happy he will remain with Detroit but this seems like overpayment.
I still maintain that the only way he will stick in the NHL is if he diversifies his skill set right now, and gives Blashill a reason besides a heavy slap shot to put him on the ice. The only way he's going to learn to score regularly in the NHL is with regular opportunity, and the only way he's getting regular opportunity is if he demonstrates value to the team in some form right now.
I took a quick look at some more numbers from the 2011 draft, specifically how many players drafted that year have gone on to play at least 60 games in the NHL. 60 is an arbitrary number, but I picked it so those players who just last year found their niche in the NHL wouldn't be excluded from the list for only playing in half of the season last year. I would say the vast majority of players who haven't played at least 60 games in the NHL by now likely haven't established themselves in the NHL, and in most cases they probably won't find permanent NHL jobs. I don't know if its the most definitive way to classify someone as a bust as I'm sure there are a handful of players who may still slip through, but its at least one way to do it and for its convenience its what I looked at. ANYWAY:
-In the first round 11 of the 30 players picked have played less than 60 games thus far.
----Colorado's 11th overall pick Duncan Siemans has played 1 NHL game.
----Buffalo's 16th overall pick Joe Armia has played 44 NHL games.
----Chicago's 18th overall pick Mark McNeill has played 1 NHL game.
----Ottawa's 21st overall pick Steven Noesen has played 2 NHL games.
----Toronto's 22rd overall pick Tyler Biggs has played 0 NHL games.
----Pittsburgh's 23rd overall pick Joe Morrow has played 48 NHL games.
----Ottawa's 24th overall pick Matt Puempel has played 39 NHL games.
----Toronto's 25th overall pick Stuart Percy has played 12 NHL games.
----Chicago's 26th overall pick Philip Danault has played 53 NHL games.
----Minnesota's 28th overall pick Zach Phillips has played 0 NHL games.
----Vancouver's 29th overall pick Nicklas Jensen has played 24 NHL games.
Things to note: Players who have established themselves in the NHL by now really thinned out after pick 15. Only 5 of the back 15 have played more than 60 NHL games, whereas 14 of the first 15 have (and many of those are in the 200+ games played range).
11 of 30 players in the second round have played more than 60 NHL games, which is a hair higher than the success rate of the back 15 of the first round (essentially the same rate). In other words, your odds of picking an NHL-calibre-player-by-2016 is essentially the same from pick 15 to pick 60, at least in this draft year. Kudos to Holland for trading one shot in that 33% success range to two shots (for a total of three shots, all in the second round). Holland's personal success in this frame currently mirrors the league: 33% success rate of this three picks between 15 and 60. That is Jurco has played more than 60, and Ouellete and Spoul have played less.
Notable picks in the second round: Brandon Saad at 43rd overall by Chicago Matthew Nieto 47th overall by San Jose, and Nikita Kucherov 58th by Tampa Bay.
5 players from the 3rd round have played more than 60 games: Vincent Trocheck, picked 64th by Florida; Adam Lowry, picked 67th by Winnepeg; Klas Dahlbeck, picked 79th by Chicago; Andy Andreoff picked 80th by Los Angeles; and Nick Shore picked 82nd by Los Angeles.
4 players from the 4th round have played more than 60 games: Jean-Gabriel Pageau picked 96th by Ottawa; Reid Boucher picked 99th by New Jersey; Jonny Gaudreau picked 104th by Calgary; and Tobias Reider picked 114th by Edmonton.
Only Andrew Shaw, picked 139th overall by the Blackhawks, and Nikita Nesterov, picked 148th overall by Tampa Bay have played in more than 60 games from the 5th round.
Josh Manson from Anaheim, picked 160th by Anaheim is the only player from the 6th round.
The 7th round produced four 60+GP players:
-Iiro Pakarinen, 184th Florida
-Jyrki Jokipakka, 195th Dallas
-Alexi Marchenko, 205th Detroit
-Ondrej Palat, 208th Tampa Bay
Overall I'd say Tampa Bay had the most successful draft that year. Chicago also did quite well (although they struck out on both of their first round picks).
Another thing I noticed between five years ago and now is the knowledge base of these prospects from a fan's perspective is much broader. In 2011 there seemed to be only a dedicated few who even felt they were knowledgable enough to voice an opinion. This year it seems like many more of these prospects are known throughout the fanbase. Admittedly, I'm still not one of them. The two defensman whom people are debating over taking in this year's draft in the first round are just anonymous blanks in my head right now.
Prologue: There has been a lot of ongoing discussion in the 2016 entry draft thread regarding the decisions that Holland and co made or did not make. Some folks think his moves were solid moves and will pay off in the future. Others think that he messed up and he should have did X, Y, and Z. The thing about decisions at the draft is none of us will definitively know the outcome of these decisions until well in the future when we can see see which prospects were home runs, which were busts, and which needed some seasoning but turned into solid acquisitions. I don't know what the accepted timeline is to determine that, but I think by five years we will have a good idea of what kind of player we have. We obviously can't fast forward five years to see how things turn out, but we can rewind five years and revisit what the discussions were regarding the 2011 entry draft. I think this might be a fun thing to do annually, especially because there isn't a whole lot of other exciting things to talk about in the offseason on a hockey forum. That means all your goofy and ridiculous comments are fair game to be quoted five years from now!
Anyway here are the threads for the 2011 entry draft:
1st round pick (24th overall): Traded to Ottawa for 35th and 48th picks
One poster wanted the Wings to pick Jaime Oleksiak with our first round pick, and projected him as a top 3 NHL defensman (currently part of the Dallas Stars organization but has endlessly bounced back and forth between the AHL and the NHL). He was picked 14th overall, well before our 24th pick, anyway.
There was lots of love for Jurco leading up to our pick (even in the first round).
Opinions were mixed regarding the Wings trading down. Some folks thought it was smart, some folks thought we were better off using our first round pick on a player. It caused a bit of a stir. Today that first round pick is Tomas Jurco and Xavier Ouellete.
There was also lots of love for Joe Morrow, who ended up going to the Pens, who picked 23rd. Hes currently a part of the Bruins organization, and has played 48 games total in the NHL, including 33 last season.
Everyone seemed to love the second round. People were high on Jurco, Ouellete, and Sproul. There was some hope for Saad to be drafted as well.
Some folks believed that Tvrdon and Quine were the steals of the draft.
Something I found particularly entertaining regarding that last bit:
It is hilarious how every draft people on here start going "OMG steal of the year hur hur hur hur" Yeah, I'll see in 5 years how these steals worked out for us.
Go check HFBoards right now and see who they said the steal of the draft was last year, I'll give you a hint It starts with Teemu and ends in Pulkkinen. Check out this years "steal of the draft", I'll give you a hint, his name starts with Marek and ends with Tvrdon.
well here we are.
The knuckle-draggers loved the Nedomiel pick. He had a knack for being a tough stay and home defender, apparently, with lots of fights under his belt.
Folks didn't seem to know how to take the Marchenko pick. Some thought it was a solid pick up considering he was highly ranked in the previous year's draft, but others thought that was a bad sign that he wasn't drafted and taken in the last round by us the following year. There was also some question on whether he would even be interested in coming to the NHL, also.