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i expect them to look like they give a s***.

You forgot Dallas Drake. An unforgivable lapse.

wings fans have higher standards, and with good reason. we aren't the ******* blue jackets here we expect more.

No one here thinks he's the reincarnation of Terry Sawchuk, nor did anyone think so when we re-signed him. We needed a back-up goalie for Howard after Ozzie retired, and we got one.

At the same time, people seem to think questioning lack of effort means the OP is saying "being 5 and 2 sucks!" His original post was mostly about lack of effort. Yet most of the responses were essentially "we're 5-2. Shut the F up!" and basically ignoring what I think is a relevant point regardless of their record. Made even more relevant based on Babcock's reaction to last night's game. It seems like most people reacted to the post title (which was probably poorly chosen) and not the content of his actual post.

Helm doesn't have the offense to play on the top line. He creates plays with speed and tenacity, not pure skill. Z is still better than 90% of the league. If that's nothing special, I don't want to know what you think of the rest of the roster.

Me too. Those were the days before the thought police started patrolling.* The only players acceptable to rip on are Ericsson and sometimes Hudler. Osgood used to be fair game too but sadly he retired. I understand that no one wants a forum of mindfly's around here, but there's still constructive talk to be had when the team doesn't play well, even if it's critical. A forum full of "Holland is great! Babcock is great! The Wings are great! I'm sure it'll get better!" doesn't interest me much. I don't think a trade is necessarily a solution, but Babs was obviously pissed by the players lack of effort last night. We're not imagining it. The first couple seasons Babcock had guys working hard and doing all the little things right. Maybe the novelty of his message is wearing off. I certainly wouldn't want to get rid of a coach as great as Babs and am not suggesting that, but complacency has been a repeating theme with this team the last couple seasons. Franzen just about openly says he gets bored with the regular season. EDIT: and yes I know the team is 5-2. I'm not saying the Wings are doomed. It's obviously early in the season and on paper they're off to a great start. But doesn't "lack of effort" and phrases like it from the coach and players sound really familiar from last season? More than thinking it's a fatal flaw, it's a worry from me that things haven't changed. *I'm not referring to the moderators

I think it's the manner of the losses, not the losses themselves. Not that I'm panicking or complaining, just saying. Though Zetterberg needs to get his s*** together.

It's only two games--preceded by five games of very good hockey--and yours is a knee-jerk reaction of the worst sort. Get a grip. On a minor note--and for your own future reference--it seems that you have a very flawed understanding of roster limits. The Wings are at the maximum roster size right now. They cannot simply make players healthy scratches and call up others to replace them. They may only exceed the roster limit via call-ups if the call-ups are replacing injured players. Please note that I find the entirety of your post ludicrous and only wrote this clarification for your own benefit.

The thing is...we played uninspired hockey in the 5 victories too, imo. We showed up for a period here and there, and won games against bad teams (except Vancouver, which was playing its 3rd road game in 4 nights). The lethargic play just didn't get exposed until we faced an opponent that has as much talent as we do, if not more.

High sticks to the face are still a common occurrence with visors, and are, overall, not much protection for the eyes, and obviously no protection below them. I also think this should be left up to the player and for insurance purposes (Gord knows there needs to be insurance for every-*******-thing) if they elect not to wear a visor they should not be eligible for benefits to be compensated through injury should they get injured in that fashion and electing not to wear PPE. Truthfully the issue is a tough one if you can't take a stance on a single side. I understand from a player perspective visors and cages are limiting and can be really ******* irritating to wear. I understand from a business perspective that part of your financial investment into a player is their well-being and obviously you aren't getting much from your investment if the player gets KO'd by a somewhat preventable injury. I understand from a litigation perspective (unfortunately this bulls*** rears it's head too often) that businesses in the U.S. and Canada are required PPE where there are specific job-related hazards but the NHL is a business (like other professional leagues in North America) exempt and allowed to largely self-regulate as far as PPE goes. Then, there's the issue of.. if NHL teams were so much about safety, why are they encouraging players to put themselves in a situation of being injured by throwing themselves in the path of an 80-110mph vulcanized semi-frozen rubber puck? Why are fights allowed? Why is so much physicality allowed? At some point one has to understand that, regardless of the "side" you wish to take, there are risks involved with playing hockey. The impression I got about visors followed a number of facial related injuries and media attention, just like the arena netting issue followed a death and a few injuries plus media attention. The issue relating to concussions, head shots, blind side hits, etc., all followed more media attention. If you notice, logical or not, hypocritical or not, the league often acts swiftly following media attention, and people are unfortunately far too susceptible to the grandiose nature of an issue the media tends to magnify. Understanding from at least 3 perspectives, I don't believe visors or cages are a necessity, and players should both elect which they want to use, and take responsibility in every aspect for the choice they made.

What else is there to say? I showed how nobody is condoning the Wings' play the past two games and simply saying to lay off the panic button, and you respond by saying that laying off the panic button IS condoning the Wings' play. And then when I ask you to back up that logic, you accuse me of having nothing of substance to say. You are aware how asinine that is, right?

Now's the time to trade Lids and Dats, Kenny, they're both getting older! Quick! Before I have to pop another Xanax or Ritalin!

Yeah, but in 2008 we had Downey. We don't have Downey now. I fail to see your point.

In 2007-08 the Red Wings' first 7 games were 4-2-1 (9 pts) -- pretty sure we remember how that season ended. So far they have 5-2-0 (10 pts) and are on pace for 117. So, following a horrendous 5-2 start, without reservation, we begin another season episode of Panic time!

Nothing against Babcock as he is the best coach in the NHL, but we have heard that from him multiple times every regular season since the Wings won it all. The effort wasn't there is the most repeated phrase coming from that locker room.

Nobody is saying "Playing without effort is okay." People are simply saying "Whoa, don't freak out over the roster yet. It's been two games over an 82 game season. Let's see how they do for a bit before hitting the panic button." It's sad that people can't understand the difference.

Yet another person demonstrates--with hideous grammar thus time--that he doesn't acknowledge the Wings` players as human beings.

Saying it's just two games and to not worry about it is no better than saying what the OP did. Simple fact is the past two games they have played lethargic, undisciplined hockey. Taking seven penalties in one game is pathetic and worthy of a practice with no pucks. While I don't think it would affect the Wings but this type of play devolps bad habits. I don't know about the rest of you but the last thing I want going into Friday is a Red Wings team with bad habits. Some quotes He went on to question their effort the past two games as well. But everyone here in their infinite wisdom, moreso than Babcock himself, say don't worry aboot it so all is well. I'm not saying hit the panic button or do a trade in the immediate future or what have you, but to sit there and say absolutely nothing is wrong when the coach himself is claiming otherwise, is kind of silly

Yes, how dare Jimmy Howard spend a couple days with his wife, who just pushed something the size of a watermelon out of a hole the size of a lemon, and thus is probably still in some discomfort, on top of getting used to having a newborn in the house. The cad. The scoundrel. The bastard. Thank God you're here to help us see the way clearly.

According to the wings twitter, they got bagged at practice today on what should have been an off day. Hopefully this short term fix will get the boys fired up for a tough game on friday vs. the sharks.

Come now, there's not a season goes by that every team in the league doesn't suffer losses like this one. You can expect more, but this is the reality of your present universe. That said, although the Wings' 5-2 start is nice, it's hardly special. There are four other teams in the West that have more or less equaled that start -- the Wings have work to do.

Has he ended anyone's career? no. Has Bertuzzi? yes. I think I've said several times Pronger plays dirty. As for the skate stomp, honestly I think Bobby Ryan's was worse than Pronger's. Ryan clearly stomps down with the blade and Pronger mostly grinds his boot. I think it was dirty and suspendable, but in that moment I don't think he was attempting to seriously injure someone, no. I think he lost his cool. the Homer elbow was much more calculated than the stomp. Either way that still doesn't mean I enjoy him losing an eye. In my earlier post I cited McKenzie's twitter which says he's seeing an eye specialist but there's so much swelling they can't evaluate it. So it's likely either an eye injury or a very close call. Like I said, I guess I just gave Wings fans more credit than they deserve. Seeing a player take a stick to the face, knowing there's a potential eye injury goes beyond how I feel about that player and his rep.

I loathe Chris Pronger. I hope he's not seriously injured, but I still loathe him. I can hate you and hope you don't die all at the same time.

Stay classy Wings fans. He dropped like a ton of bricks and you can hear him screaming as he goes into the dressing room holding his face. Clearly this was more than a little cut. According to Bob McKenzie he's seeing an eye specialist but there's too much swelling to know anything.