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I think it´s a bit unfair to judge Veleno that early, he played just 11 games on a different kontinent,scoring 5 points so far which is ok to me considering the fact that he was struggling early on last season and after finding his game slowly in the AHL corona hit us and now he has to adjust to a new country, culture, language, team and ice sheet. When I watched him play in sweden (3games) he did not look like someone with limited puck skills. He is playing on the league´s worst team being relied on in all situations, playing every other shift in the games last minutes and to me leaves a good impression. He is making plays, creative, not easy to play against. Give him time, I think he can be reliable, responsible and contributing 2nd line center in a few years time.

Woah... then I guess Zadina is going to break your heart.

Seider didn't make Germany's 2021 WJC roster... Statement from Yzerman:

So Sam Stange has 3 goals in 6 games for Wisconsin.

To some degree....yes. Like it or not, luck plays a part in winning and losing, success and failure. Good drafting, ownership, scouting, development, coaching, and managing increases your odds of success. But you're still only playing the odds. The things you can't control can make or break a season just as much as the things you can. That's "luck". Vegas had things fall overwhelmingly in their favor from the start. You can't credit their success based solely on their coaching, drafting, managing, etc. All of which they did very well. They also benefitted from uncontrollable/unpredictable factors working out for them as well. That is "luck".

If you've ever been to Vegas, you would know that sometimes you hit the jackpot when the odds say you shouldn't. Vegas had a lot of things fall just right from the beginning. They literally "got lucky". I mentioned several of them already. Expecting a 2nd expansion team to be able to repeat what Vegas did is like expecting a team that just won the Cup to repeat that feat the next year. Even the best team needs a little "luck" on their side to win. No one expects things to fall the same way again.

You've already proven with your previous posts that you've been basing your opinion purely on stats, and not from watching the games. Now saying that he has "limited puck skills", makes me question whether or not you've ever watched Veleno play... Veleno's skill with the puck on his stick is one of his strengths, not at all a weakness. If you're going to point to a weakness, it would probably be his positioning in the defensive zone. Something that can be fixed. So you do think that all players develop at the same rate? Got it. Veleno's point totals have been a little disappointing. No disagreement there. However, he's still been playing well from what I've seen. Berggren has been unreal, and is massively surpassing everyone's expectations. That doesn't necessarily mean it will translate to the NHL though... I didn't bring Mantha up as a direct player comparison. I brought him up because so many people (including you) gave up on him before he ever had a chance to prove himself. The same thing you're now doing with Veleno. Mantha is a borderline elite, top line NHL winger (when healthy). I don't think Veleno will ever have that sort of impact at the NHL level. They're completely different players. The player I've compared Veleno to in the past, and I think it's a very good one, is Phillip Danault. They're exactly the same size, left-handed centers, from the same province, drafted in the same range, and play a very similar style of game. Both are very strong two-way centers, that can play in all situations. Their biggest strengths are skating, play-making ability, hockey IQ and work ethic. The biggest difference between the two is that Veleno has been much better at every single level up until this point in Veleno's young career. Veleno was much better in the QMAAA, QMJHL, AHL, and World tournaments. All of which he played at a younger age than Danault. Danault was always an average point producer, better known for his two-way game. Sound familiar? Now he's one of the better 2nd line centers in the NHL. But yet, according to you, that sort of ceiling just isn't in the cards for Veleno... We definitely don't agree. Surprise, surprise. But if you want to write Veleno off as a 3rd line center this early in his development, go right ahead. I'm going to assume he still has plenty of room to grow, and hope he hits his ultimate ceiling, which is an elite two-way 2C.

I'm not knocking anyone that doesn't watch games. I've only watched 5 of Veleno's 11 games, and even 2 or 3 of those was a lot of flicking back and forth between games. I'm knocking people that claim to watch that clearly haven't. Or maybe they have watched 6 of Veleno's 11 games, and it just so happens that he was s*** in those 6, and really good in the 5 that I watched... Veleno definitely has a high compete level. I still think Veleno will be 50-60 point 2nd line center through his prime years, which I agree would be great.

Berggren, who is also 20 and playing in a men’s league, is torching the SHL. Keep in mind he was picked after Veleno and has missed the better part of two years with injuries. That’s the difference between a guy who has natural offensive ability and one who doesn’t. In every way Veleno is further along in his development and yet he can’t out pace Berggren because he simply doesn’t have the puck skills to produce anything other than middling offensive numbers. He’s currently getting outpaced by Seider (A 19 year old defenseman) as well. And it’s only going to get harder to score when he gets to the NHL. I think we are looking at 40 point, two-way, 3rd line center here.

If Veleno tops out as a Draper caliber player, he wouldn't be considered a bust, but he would definitely be considered a disappointment. To me, Veleno still has a 2C ceiling and 3C floor. He is still only 20 years old playing against men, and playing well despite not putting up monster points... *yet*. He had another nice assist in today's game, and he's looking more and more comfortable.

Anaheim traded Theodore to keep Vatanen. Let that sink in. Everyone knew Theodore's potential at the time of that trade. Not only that, they traded Vatanen that same damn season. Florida mismanaged their roster so badly that they gave up Smith AND Marchessault. Gotta imagine teams will be more aware of this type of s*** when it comes to Seattle.

getting the feeling that Timashov won't be part of this team. He'll probably wind up in Europe.

assigning genders to words is transphobic

1.Vegas was able to take advantage of some teams who hadn't prepared for the expansion draft as well as they should have. You won't see that happen again. Teams will be better prepared this time around. 2. Vegas brought in some guys who played way better than anyone expected when given bigger roles. That's unlikely to happen again. 3. Vegas, as a team, way overachieved. I wouldn't call it "lightning im a bottle", but something close to that. Vegas should not have been that good with that roster. They haven't repeated that measure of success since, which you would expect if they were really that good. The likelihood that Seattle repeats any of what Vegas was able to do is small. They won't be a 20 win team, but they won't be a playoff team either. Totally. I won the lottery once, therefore I should expect to win everytime I play. That's logic.

Why? Are you trying to set back the rebuild? Seattle won't be another Vegas. Better than historical expansion teams, but what Vegas did won't be repeated.

How bout "Wings Retro" as it's as boring as that jersey

>Seider >Veleno >Johansson If you plebs would bother to look past the big names you would realize Eemil Viro is quietly running the Finnish Mens Liiga right now. Already matched his point totals from last season. Oh that's right... he was already in a mens league last season prior to being drafted... Bow to your Suomi superior

Yeah. The Cougars approach would have been inspired thinking. Who actually decides? The league or the team/ownership? Looking at that silver and the number 20. Mayyyyybe this is a tribute to DREW MILLER??!!!!!!!