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E and Nielsen are my top 2 choices. I'd trade them both in a heartbeat for zero return.

LTIR. If Hossa can be allergic to the end of long front-loaded contracts, so can Zetterberg.

No

Seguin's 7 year deal isn't representative of what a player of his caliber makes. Seguin signed that deal after his 2nd year in the league and had 1 disappointing 22 point rookie season and 1 break 67 pt. break out season. His contract is very low for what he produces because they took a chance and locked him up longterm before he fully come into his own. He'll probably get 8 or 9 million when his to contract is up in a couple years. Anyway, I hope Tatar's shoulder injury is fixed and he has his best year.

Ice is being put in: Video board also being tested, along with banners in the rafters. Although, if you look through some of the Instagram posts on either the arena's page or the District Detroit page, it appears the banners keep disappearing/reappearing. So I don't know if they keep taking them down or if there is a system in place where they get wrapped up.

Good catch. Nonetheless, we'd be much younger if we swapped out two or three of the players I mentioned previously.

E, Abby, Nielsen. They don't bring anything to the table that a younger, cheaper player wouldn't.

Hyped for hockey to start again blah blah blah miss drinking barley pops and yelling at my tv blah blah blah all the usual stuff... My hype level for this team? Solid 5. Part of me believes last year was an epic s***storm of everything that could go wrong going wrong. The whole thing was strangely bad. This gives me hope we can rebound in a big way. The other part of me believes we truly do suck. So idk how to feel. Solid 5. Im sure my opinion will swing wildly in the first 10 games. After that things will get more clear. This team is on short leash with me. If we come out flat in the first 10 im gonna start building my folder of tank gifs and start a Rasmus Dahlin thread.

I would money on it that this is just a negotiation ploy....you never know, but I'm not worried.

Fake News! Zero chance that happens.

10. By this point I'm always just hyped for hockey to start, whether or not I logically think the Wings are going to be any good. There's always a little optimistic part of me for a new season.

Holland will do just what Chicago did and make up a convenient medical condition at the exact moment the contract goes into the cheap years. "BREAKING: Detroit Red Wings captain, Henrik Zetterberg, allergic to, but unable to shave his beard, sources say"

This. I remember Sproul looking really good in exactly one game, against Tampa in November when he scored a goal and an assist. Both came on the powerplay where he was used in the Ovechkin spot on the left side. That's pretty much optimal deployment for him and he produced, but otherwise I've never really noticed him that much. He'd definitely need to shape up his 5 on 5 play before he'd be anything I'd worry about losing. I suppose it's possible he's another Justin Schultz and just needs the right situation/team and a little more seasoning. But more likely he's Brendan Smith all over again. An "offensive" defenseman who never scores any offense.

It sounds to me that you are saying winning = good GM, losing = bad GM. What moves in 2010, 2011, and 2012 were you upset with? The reason why I ask, is because there are plenty of things to criticize Holland over, but having your team go on a down slide after being contenders for 20 years is not one of them. EVERY team goes on a down swing, the fact it took us so long is an example of our FO doing a good job, not a bad one. IMO there are only two major mistakes that Holland makes. 1) He is way to tentative to make a trade, sometimes you have to take a risk. 2) He puts too much value on vets. I agree that vets are crucial as with no vets you become a joke like Edmonton this past decade. But Holland needs to sometimes let vets walk (ie. A Helm situation) and give a kid a shot instead. I am just using Helm as an example, I actually really like Helm, but Holland just keeps signing vets when he should be allowing kids to play. Plus, having all vets keeps you at the cap, and keeping you at the cap can restrict your ability to pull off certain trades. The second part is just untrue. A GM's job is to acquire and retain high end talent, and place them with good secondary talent. Holland did that for a very very long time. To say that the talent he acquired and retained masked him being a poor GM goes against the fundamentals of what his job is. The fact that he was able to acquire Datsyuk and Zetterberg, and then get them to stay along with Lidstrom their entire career's is part of what made him a great GM. There is no denying that Holland has dug himself into a hole, if he is still a good GM he will climb out, if he's not he won't. Simple. Unless of course the players he acquires moving forward do really well and mask his abilities again

If my scenario plays out and we lose Sproul due the cap crunch I will definitely turn against the Daley signing. He may be a good player, but I wouldn't want to lose Sproul for him since I still think he'll be a good un. I hope Holland knows that one of surgery guys: E, TT, Sproul or Kronwall won't be ready to go, though, and is planning around that. We'll see...

All the arguing about Butcher can stop now, from Craig Custance: Red Wings haven't called on Will Butcher. Not considered serious contenders for the college UFA defenseman.

You just defined him as being a risk but said vilardi was a bigger risk, even though everyone has stated rasmusson was the bigger risk of being a bust

By now you've all read the article where Z basically admits the contract he signed was a sham to circumvent the cap. Option A) Of course, if he retires, the Wings get stuck with 2 years of the recapture penalty at around $5.5M/year. Option B) If he suffers another back injury, they could 'Pronger' him to LTIR and bury that cap hit like Frazen. I would say this is a BIG "IF" right now since he flat out admitted that everyone involved lied/cheated/stole when it came to fitting this contract in the salary cap. An attempt at LTIR would surely be met with INTENSE scrutiny. No one mentions Option C) BUY OUT. If he's bought out, the Wings can spread the cap hit over 4 years at 2/3s the cost. Disregard this.. As I was researching the content for this post, I learned of the F'd up formula used to calculate the actual buy out payroll and the buy out cap hit.. (Buy out cap hit - explained HERE) Numbers and stuff: Henrik Zetterberg is 38 years old at the date of the buyout Salary remaining: $2,000,000 The buyout ratio is 2/3, which results in a total buyout cost of $1,333,333 There are 2 years remaining on this contract The buyout will be spread out over 4 years The annual buyout cost is $333,333 The buyout cap hit is displayed in the far right column SEASON SALARY INITIAL CAP HIT ACTUAL COST SAVINGS BUYOUT CAP HIT 2019-20 $1,000,000 $6,083,333 $333,333 $666,667 $5,416,666 2020-21 $1,000,000 $6,083,333 $333,333 $666,667 $5,416,666 2021-22 $0 $0 $333,333 -$333,333 $333,333 2022-23 $0 $0 $333,333 -$333,333 $333,333 Wait, there's more: How about Option D) He can be loaned to a team in another league. (SEL, anyone?) Completely legal in regards to the cap and saves us minimum salary + $375K against the cap. So, $650,000 (minimum) + $375,000 - $6,083,333 = $5,076,333 as a cap hit. A meager savings, but a savings nonetheless. OK, feel free to pick this apart and let me know what I may have misinterpreted. http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2017/08/21/report-wings-zetterberg-likely-play-seasons/104808640/

So you're saying there is a chance!!!!

That number's not correct, though. I just added the ages of the 22 players we expect and it's an average age of 26.86. If you click on the red wing's link it lists Miller and Vitale. Maybe including those guys and Franzen is how they got that number?

We're also the second oldest team with an average age of 29.269. Imagine how different all three of those numbers would look if we replaced Kronwall, Ericsson and Howard with Ouellet, Sproul and Coreau. We would probably be a slightly worse team (not much), which would be a good thing anyway. We also wouldn't have those veterans for Blashill to needlessly lean on, and it would give the kids more of an opportunity to sink or swim...

Okay, okay, I get your point. No need to triple post... But yeah, I get what you were saying now, and I agree. I'd do that trade, but maybe have lottery protection on the first round pick, and retain some of Ericsson's cap hit. I'm not sure if Winnipeg would have much interest though unfortunately. I'd start looking at lesser established defensemen. We wouldn't have to give up near as much, but of course, there's always the risk of them not panning out. I remember leading up to the '15 draft, I wanted to trade up for Werenski, and then the following season I wanted to put in an offer to Columbus for him. Oh, what could have been... Then leading up to the '16 draft, I wanted to trade up for Bean, and now want to put in an offer to Carolina for him. Do it Kenny!...

Gag.

It is interesting that Z wants to leave as soon as Kronwall's contract is up Don't blame him. First losing Datsyuk then losing Kronwall. Losing old teammates does suck.

for what little cap room they have, not what he should be getting. Would you take a job that pays you 2/3 of what you should be making based on your qualifications?

If Zetterberg says his back hurts too much and a couple doctors back him up, I don't know how the league can argue it. Medical experts vs. "we don't believe it?"

No, the only dick moves made this off-season have been made by Holland.

It could be a negotiation ploy however if Holland calls his bluff, I see AA going to Russia, think about it, more money, more playing time, and we he gets back he could go to another team that uses him correctly and does not have a s***ty coach.....if he leaves I will no longer be a fan of this team until Holland and Trashill are fired. Good thing we have abby and E on this team. Ridiculous

Even if I'm not happy with the management decisions and things like that, I'm always just excited to see what we do have and what it can do. Like someone else said, this mostly revolves around people like Mantha, AA, and Larkin. But honestly anyone of Nyquist or Tatar could have a random big season or take an unexpected step forward. This applies to a few others as well I think, and that sort of stuff just feeds my optimistic side some excitement. To me the league has just gotten a lot less predictable over the past few years, and that really benefits us Wings fans in our current spot I think.

Despite our epic playoff streak ending, we're still one of the greatest franchises in sports history. Most sports fans can only wish and dream of just an ounce of our success over the years. Red Wings till the day I die. 10!!!

This for me as well. I miss hockey. Looking forward to see if Larkin, Sheahan, DeKeyser and Mrazek can rebound from bad to awful seasons, and to see if Mantha and Athanasiou can build on solid seasons. Also looking forward to keep an eye on a few promising prospects. I'll be watching as many Griffins games as I can, to see if Svechnikov and Hicketts can take another step, and what Hronek can do in his first full season. I'll also be keeping a close eye on a few players in junior as well, mainly Cholowski, Sambrook, Rasmussen and Smith. I'm hoping to get down for a game as well. I'd love to get down for the season opener against Minnesota, but that's not going to happen. I'm thinking maybe December or January...

10. I think they'll be better then last year and probably in the playoffs. I'll get to see them in Minnesota, planning a trip to LA and to see the new arena.

Datsyuk told management long before that. It wasn't made public immediately. It was no secret that the deal was front loaded to lower the cap and that he probably wouldn't play out the whole thing. Deals like that are the reason behind the recapture penalty that was made retroactive.

Your goddamn right it is. Welcome aboard brother. I look foward to your youtube video.

I think ... is really overrated around here.

Datsyuk

Well for one I would do it if nobody goes on IR to make room for AA. Secondly, I have been very vocal about making a trade for a player like a Trouba (doesn't have to be him) and having more cap space gives you the flexibility to pull off a trade like that because you are able to absorb cap if the other team is looking at dumping cap with an asset. (I realize Holland is unlikely to do this, but I am saying what I would do). Now if things work themselves out for this year, I would hold off until next year as that is when I want Holland to make a move. Thirdly, I would like to take a run a JT because I believe we have very good secondary scoring, but lack elite talent. JT is elite talent. I know your counter will be "Why would JT want to come here?" Well, if you are a GM in the NHL and you think that way, you are in the wrong business.You can't not try because you are scared of failing. Think of a 1-2-3-4 of JT-Z-Larkin-whoever......that changes things big time especially if Larkin really breaks out. Speaking of Larkin, he and Mantha's contracts are due next year. My worry is IF they truly break out, we may be in trouble cap wise if we make other moves. Draisaitl just signed for 8.5mil, not that I see either of the kids getting that, but if they put up say 60 (my personal ceiling for them for this year) they could demand anything between 4-6, add in JT likely wanting 10+, and a d-man likely costing something, I want cap space. Even if you argument is "Holland wont do any of this" none of us even have a clue if he will be here in 1 year. More the reason why I want cap space. So no opinion, I guess you can't ever be wrong that way. Much easier to just point out flaws in other's.

I will say this, when I first posted, I was thinking of all the trades we did in the 90's (ie. Shanny trade, Larionov trade etc.) forgetting they weren't actually made by Holland. My bad there. As far as the bold goes, I am not saying either. What I am saying is I would like to see Holland a bit more active. With that being said, can you answer what I asked you? My question was "What would you like to see from Holland moving forward?" How do you think he should approach things in regards to bringing us back to being contenders? Its easy to point out flaws in the opinions of others, can you come up with a solution?

Bottom line is that he was willing to make moves. Now that you can't really make major moves in free agency, it would be nice to see him pull off a major trade. Are you against my point? Or are you just trying to find flaws in my argument? What would you like to see from Holland moving forward? I would like to see a trade for a top pairing D-man and a couple contracts being dumped. Sure, easier said then done. But as a GM you have to be creative and that is what I want to see from Holland. I am not a poster who bashes Holland for everything he does, I think Holland takes a lot of s*** for things that really arent his fault, but I also think that sometimes he doesn't do himself any favors. I think if he could pull off a trade for a legit top D-man, it would be huge and would change the minds of a lot of posters/fans in regards to his abilities to lead this team moving forward.

upload it to youtube and post it As the resident smart guy I will tell you everything you need to know EDIT: Love your cat avatar. DANK AF

Lidstrom retiring was always gonna be a huge blow, but losing Stuart and Rafalski early over personal reasons were huge blows as well that I feel like get glossed over. Lidstrom - Raflaski Kronwall - Stuart That was a dreamy top 4 then 3/4 were gone in a matter of a few seasons Lidstrom - Rafalski Kronwall - Stuart Then the bums Kindl, Smith, Ericsson, and Quincey never stepped up either. This team was bound for doom in that scenario.

Do you blame him? If I was a young free agent I wouldn't go anywhere near Blashill or Holland

becoming a nonplayoff team is an inevitability

Are you seriously trying to sell that Rasmussen was the "safe pick"? I think 99% of people would agree that the "safe pick" would have been Vilardi. Rasmussen is the epitome of a "risk" being that from all accounts he is no sure thing. I'm not even defending the pick, but it clearly was a risk. I also don't see how signing Butcher to a minimum contract is a risk. I agree that Holland needs to take more risks, but these are horrible examples. I think you are equating "risk" to Holland just doing what you want him to do. A risk would be trading AA for a potential top pairing D-man. Would you want this? I'm guessing no.

Broken Kronwall almost broke two people just a few months ago this past season. I'd take this anyday over "can't shoot the puck straight Dekeyser" even if he only plays half the games.

No it doesn't. We were on the winning end of a college free agent signing two years ago. Exact same situation. Russo was drafted by the Islanders, refused to sign and became a free agent, and signed with us. Russo put up slightly better numbers (41 points (15 goals, 26 assists) in 40 games vs. 37 points (7 goals, 30 assists) in 43 games) at the same age. He also had a slightly better points per game (0.66 vs. 0.65) during his time in the NCAA. Do you think Butcher is that much better than Russo? Do you think Russo is anything more than a depth defenseman? Sproul also has a ton of accomplishments over the years, including CHL defenseman of the year, OHL first All-Star team, OHL most points by a defenseman / most goals by a defenseman (back to back years), OHL most outstanding defenseman, AHL all rookie team. And yet most here, including yourself are ready to give up on him at the age of 24, despite not getting much of an opportunity at the NHL level... There's a ton of hype surrounding Butcher right now because it's the dead of the offseason. I'd be shocked if he develops into anything more than a bottom pair (maybe lower level middle pair) defenseman, and we already have a surplus of those. I hope he signs with Minnesota tomorrow, so we can stop hearing all the overhype on this kid...

I've stated this fact in literally 4 posts already. And people still didn't understand or read so I gave up. Now I'm just an audience member of the meltdown. Anyways, I wonder if Holland is trying to make a trade happen with AA in the package.

Chris Ilitch will find the man responsible for the missing ' and he will be drawn, and quartered in the parking lot tomorrow morning 0900...Admission will be $20 to watch.

They weren't doing that when this team was good. Thanks a lot Kenny.

Agree with all of the above. I believe after the 2017/2018 season it is time for Holland to move up where Jimmy D has been (for the last century), and someone else to become GM. That said - as much as I'd love to see Stevie Y return - somehow I get the impression that it won't happen...I may be crazy, but am I the only one to think Draper might be in line for a 'greater' role within the organization?