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https://www.mlive.com/redwings/2021/11/moritz-seider-good-to-go-as-red-wings-seek-to-regain-structure-salvage-trip.html

Curious as to what age you think we should allow Zadina to reach before we give up. Gustav Nyquist had his breakout year as a 24 year old. And by break out year, that means becoming a 45 pt a year player. Nyquist was also playing alongside our 1C. Zadina has 105 gp and 44 pts so far in his career. So he's a few pts away from being a .5 ppg player as a 22 yo who's been playing 2nd line minutes at best. I see absolutely nothing wrong with where he stands currently OR in how he is progressing. The guy plays much harder and covers A LOT more ice than Mantha. He is a good 2-way winger. Would it be better if he was Lucas Raymonds clone? Sure. But we arent playing him on the 1st line with Vrana and Raymond healthy. So why cant we be happy with a .5 ppg 2nd line winger who hustles, is a good team guy, and doesnt break the bank? We'd be foolish to dump him.

Still at a loss for why Svechnikov is being used as a measuring stick here? What does he have to do with anything at all?

Yeah and I don't even mind letting Zadina keep his PP time, maybe even give him Names PK time too. But let's see what Names can do with more 5v5 icetime and better linemates. Obviously Names is playing well at even strength and we know he's defensively responsible already. Bertuzzi - Larkin - Raymond Fabbri - Suter - Namestnikov Erne - Veleno - Zadina Stephens - Rasmussen - Gagner PK Unit 1: Rasmussen - Gagner Unit 2: Stephens - Zadina

He's a UFA so you trade him 100% unless you can get him to re-sign a short term deal. I wouldn't bother though. I doubt there will be much of a Guelph squad here beyond next year anyway.

I'm back and forth on this. I really do like Fabbri as a player. And I like that Yzerman did some cultural building by bringing in Suter from Guelph as well. But he's also our big trade chip this year and I have my eye on someone like Ondrej Palat to replace him in the offseason. I think at some point you have to stop trading pieces away for the sake of trading them and build a top6 core you like and that meshes. By all accounts and display Fabbri seems to fit in well here... unlike past guys like AA and Mantha... but are we really ready to push forward with this exact group again? I guess what I'm saying is I can be swayed either way on Fabbri. Tossing him or keeping him.

You guys are kidding yourself if you think Rasmussen’s line gets easier matchups than Suter’s

I think switching him with Zadina would be a good move. Namestnikov would get more ice time with better line-mates, and Zadina would get a chance to play against easier matchups?

I've never advocated dumping him. See my posts above. Also, he played almost ALL of last season with Larkin (until he got injured) because Bertuzzi was hurt. Even after Larkin's injury (and Vrana's acquisition) Zadina was still on the top line. I don't mind debating this with you, but it's not helping either of us if we don't get basic facts straight. I think I'd be happy if he looked capable of scoring 40 pts a season. Nevermind 60 pts. But based on his play so far I"m not at all confident he'll hit that mark in what is now his 3rd professional season.

I'm not sure I agree with this though. He was drafted to score, and he's not scoring. That's a problem. Darren Helm played good defense, worked his ass off, had good possession metrics (for most of his career) and couldn't score on the chances he generated too. Plenty of 4th line guys have good possession metrics actually. I think we all expect Zadina to be better than that. And if he isn't then I don't think we're really happy with his play. Or at least not as happy as we'd like to be. I'm genuinely not a Zadina hater. I think there are good aspects to his game. But I think he's in over his head on the 2nd line. Right now I'd probably switch him with Namestnikov.

Sure, I agree with that. Neither are so good that they couldn't be traded if they can help get a decent return. I'm really not desperate to get rid of either of them though. When this team is good again it's not going to be made up entirely of 25 year olds. Guys like Bert, Larkin, and Fabbri are going to be the 30 year old's who have as much value teaching guys how to be good pros as they do on the ice. Similarly the team isn't going to be made up entirely of point-per-game studs like Lucas Raymond either. You're going to need quality 3rd line guys who can chip in offense, play up the lineup in the event of injuries, and don't get torched on defense. Zadina (so fa) fits that bill. And if he improves? Great.

My post was in response to Zadina isnt talented not Zadina doesnt score enough. The former is false but the latter is true. youd be hard pressed to find anyone happy with Zadinas point totals including the player/coaches/management but im sure all are happy with his play on both sides of the puck. The production a player should have is relevant when talking about a 21yo consistently driving play. Mantha was lazy af Zadina works his a$$ off.

Going down by multiple goals is far too often an occurrence right now

How much longer is DDK going to be allowed to stand around while people score goals?

What else is there to do?

Well. I was barely trying

He is a "placeholder". If he is a good HC, SY will keep him on after the the rebuild is done. I doubt that happens.

Awesome sssschit to wake up to I'm telling ya