Detroit Lions Offseasn Thread

[Guest ZetterBurger40]

Miller just reported that he confirmed with the Lions organization will keep Millen for the '07-'08 season. I don't even know what to say anymore- I'm done with the Lions.

[timothy1997 0]

Miller just reported that he confirmed with the Lions organization will keep Millen for the '07-'08 season. I don't even know what to say anymore- I'm done with the Lions.

what does Millen have?? Revealing photos of Ford?? I am beginning to think so.

[Matt 1,049]

That makes baby Jesus cry.

[BlakChamber 8]

He's still got 3 years left on his contract

[timothy1997 0]

He's still got 3 years left on his contract

so 3 more years of this S**T!! :nonono:

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Why the retainment? Because he makes good a** prints on the sideline bench sitting and moping from the frustration he continually watches and is a huge part of?

[edicius 3,269]

Millen says, "I'll never quit."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16442290/from/RS.1/

[Hockeytown Red Wings 245]

I saw this and tried ignoring it...but it eats at my soul and I have to express my disappointment. He's had enough time to turn his vision into reality...results need to follow starting now.

[eva unit zero 271]

I saw this and tried ignoring it...but it eats at my soul and I have to express my disappointment. He's had enough time to turn his vision into reality...results need to follow starting now.

Millen needs to be replaced, as does Kitna.

Marinelli can stay though.

I liked what I saw from this year's Lions as a step forward from the past few years. Maybe if we had a Joey Harrington or Charlie Batch--a guy who was not a star, but was at least an adequate QB--we might have won a few more games?

Edited January 3, 2007 by eva unit zero

[Heaton 1]

Err, what did you see this year as an improvement? If anything, this team took several steps back.

[betterREDthandead 58]

"Mr. Ford and I, we talk a bunch," Millen said. "Rod and myself, we've been talking all season long. It never even got to anything other than, 'Keep on doing what we're doing.' "

Well that's encouraging

[mannysBETTER3434 1]

Well that's encouraging

That mad me laugh hard

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Millen needs to be replaced, as does Kitna.

Marinelli can stay though.

I liked what I saw from this year's Lions as a step forward from the past few years. Maybe if we had a Joey Harrington or Charlie Batch--a guy who was not a star, but was at least an adequate QB--we might have won a few more games?

You must be being sarcastic, or else that post makes no sense! The only thing on this team that you could even say "took a step forward" was the passing game with Kitna/WIlliams/Furrey. So if you're saying Kitna was a step backwards, what on earth were the improvements in the other areas?

[BlakChamber 8]

I only got to watch 2 Lions game this year. But my impression of Kinta from watching and reading about the games is that he's a serviceable QB. He's never going to be mistaken for Manning or Brady, but he can get the job done.

Unless the Lions have a chance to get a real stud that's already an NFL vet, I don't see what benefit there would be to yet another QB change. The QB wasn't the problem in Detroit when Joey was here, and it's not the problem now.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I only got to watch 2 Lions game this year. But my impression of Kinta from watching and reading about the games is that he's a serviceable QB. He's never going to be mistaken for Manning or Brady, but he can get the job done.

Unless the Lions have a chance to get a real stud that's already an NFL vet, I don't see what benefit there would be to yet another QB change. The QB wasn't the problem in Detroit when Joey was here, and it's not the problem now.

Agreed.

There's so many changes to be made, but I wouldn't put Kitna near the top of the list.

The sad part is, the Ford Family has little incentive to change as long as people keep going to the games. Aren't they practically selling out?

The Lions fans have been ridiculouly faithful, and the Ford family is abusing that loyalty.

ugh. I can't even think about another year of Millen.

[Guest ZetterBurger40]

I only got to watch 2 Lions game this year. But my impression of Kinta from watching and reading about the games is that he's a serviceable QB. He's never going to be mistaken for Manning or Brady, but he can get the job done.

Unless the Lions have a chance to get a real stud that's already an NFL vet, I don't see what benefit there would be to yet another QB change. The QB wasn't the problem in Detroit when Joey was here, and it's not the problem now.

Sorry, but I strongly diagree that Kitna is even "serviceable". There is a reason why a 34 year old QB out of Central Washington has never held a starting job in his NFL career. Possibly the same reason that Kevin Kasper was out of the NFL for what, 3 years, yet the Lions decided to sign him, and re-sign Hakim/Bradford in an effort to "move forward"- as we all know, the opposite happened. Kitna had 22 INTs and 11 fumbles this year, that is god awful. I'm sure some will argue that its the O-Line/Receivers' faults, but Kitna's history speaks for itself- he is a bad quarterback. Good thing Marinelli believes that he is the guy for next year too- here's to another year of turnovers, disappointment, and as always, losing!

[Heaton 1]

Sorry, but I strongly diagree that Kitna is even "serviceable". There is a reason why a 34 year old QB out of Central Washington has never held a starting job in his NFL career. Possibly the same reason that Kevin Kasper was out of the NFL for what, 3 years, yet the Lions decided to sign him, and re-sign Hakim/Bradford in an effort to "move forward"- as we all know, the opposite happened. Kitna had 22 INTs and 11 fumbles this year, that is god awful. I'm sure some will argue that its the O-Line/Receivers' faults, but Kitna's history speaks for itself- he is a bad quarterback. Good thing Marinelli believes that he is the guy for next year too- here's to another year of turnovers, disappointment, and as always, losing!

Exactly, Kitna is awful. Any veteran can be decent in a Mike Martz offense, I don't care how many routes were run the "wrong way" or how many balls were 'tipped', when your QB is turning the ball over THIRTY PLUS TIMES and leads the league in 4th quarter turnovers, you're never going to be successful.

[betterREDthandead 58]

Sorry, but I strongly diagree that Kitna is even "serviceable". There is a reason why a 34 year old QB out of Central Washington has never held a starting job in his NFL career. Possibly the same reason that Kevin Kasper was out of the NFL for what, 3 years, yet the Lions decided to sign him, and re-sign Hakim/Bradford in an effort to "move forward"- as we all know, the opposite happened. Kitna had 22 INTs and 11 fumbles this year, that is god awful. I'm sure some will argue that its the O-Line/Receivers' faults, but Kitna's history speaks for itself- he is a bad quarterback. Good thing Marinelli believes that he is the guy for next year too- here's to another year of turnovers, disappointment, and as always, losing!

Are you kidding? Kitna was a starting quarterback for two teams before he got here - the Seahawks and the Bengals. Kitna started for two years in Seattle and three in Cincinnati.

Kitna's career path has followed a progression. He starts for bad teams because he's better than the usual bad-team QB (would you rather have Aaron Brooks, Bruce Gradkowski, or Cleo Lemon??? Do you miss Stoney Case and Ty Detmer??? I think not.) But he's not good enough to carry a good team, so those teams found their franchise QBs (Hasselbeck, Palmer) and dumped Kitna. Good enough to start for a bad team, bad enough to be dumped by a good team.

Now, if I have my way, the Lions will trade for Matt Schaub, Kitna will sign with the Bucs, and the cycle will continue. But then again, it's blatantly obvious that there needs to be upgrades at every single position on offense before we need a new QB. We need a completely new offensive line (though I think that perhaps Jonathan Scott was showing some promise before his hip injury), we need a tight end that can consistently get open, we need a backup running back that's better than Arlen Harris or Aveion Cason (hell, we may need a starting running back if Kevin Jones can't go), and we need a receiver to complement Roy so Furrey can line up in the slot where he belongs. Most of which needs to happen BEFORE Kitna is replaced. The last thing we need is to draft yet another Holy Savior (especially if his name is Brady Quinn) and stick him under center right away. Kitna stays. (Though I'd have liked to see McCown and Orlovsky get a look.)

Kitna is not a good decision maker under pressure, and he can't scramble. But the offensive line couldn't protect him if the defense had to count one-Mississippi-two-Mississippi-three-Mississippi.

[Jwo 7]

This team will never get good untill Ford dies or sells the team. I feel bad for the older guys who have only seen one playoff win under Ford ownership.

[eva unit zero 271]

Are you kidding? Kitna was a starting quarterback for two teams before he got here - the Seahawks and the Bengals. Kitna started for two years in Seattle and three in Cincinnati.

Kitna's career path has followed a progression. He starts for bad teams because he's better than the usual bad-team QB (would you rather have Aaron Brooks, Bruce Gradkowski, or Cleo Lemon??? Do you miss Stoney Case and Ty Detmer??? I think not.) But he's not good enough to carry a good team, so those teams found their franchise QBs (Hasselbeck, Palmer) and dumped Kitna. Good enough to start for a bad team, bad enough to be dumped by a good team.

Now, if I have my way, the Lions will trade for Matt Schaub, Kitna will sign with the Bucs, and the cycle will continue. But then again, it's blatantly obvious that there needs to be upgrades at every single position on offense before we need a new QB. We need a completely new offensive line (though I think that perhaps Jonathan Scott was showing some promise before his hip injury), we need a tight end that can consistently get open, we need a backup running back that's better than Arlen Harris or Aveion Cason (hell, we may need a starting running back if Kevin Jones can't go), and we need a receiver to complement Roy so Furrey can line up in the slot where he belongs. Most of which needs to happen BEFORE Kitna is replaced. The last thing we need is to draft yet another Holy Savior (especially if his name is Brady Quinn) and stick him under center right away. Kitna stays. (Though I'd have liked to see McCown and Orlovsky get a look.)

Kitna is not a good decision maker under pressure, and he can't scramble. But the offensive line couldn't protect him if the defense had to count one-Mississippi-two-Mississippi-three-Mississippi.

Kitna turned the ball over more than 30 times this season. Only once in his career has Harrington turnedt he ball over more than 20 times, and NEVER more than 30.

Kitna might be the worst full-time starting QB the Lions have had in my lifetime (Detmer only played 4 games in the uniform)

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Kitna turned the ball over more than 30 times this season. Only once in his career has Harrington turnedt he ball over more than 20 times, and NEVER more than 30.

Kitna might be the worst full-time starting QB the Lions have had in my lifetime (Detmer only played 4 games in the uniform)

Once again, another post where you ONLY look at the stats and nothing else. You wanna know why Joey had less picks? Because he never took any chances and all of his passes were 5 yard checkdowns! Enter Kitna, who plays under a high risk/high reward Mike Martz system. Look at Mark Bulger...he threw 14 in '04 and was on pace for 18 picks in '05. Kurt Warner had years of 18 (in 11 games!!) and 22 INTs. Im not excusing the fact that Kitna made alot of mistakes, but what i am saying is that alot of those are a product of the system and this notion that Joey was better because he threw less interceptions (under Mooch's bland safe offense) is way off the mark!

[Guest ZetterBurger40]

Are you kidding? Kitna was a starting quarterback for two teams before he got here - the Seahawks and the Bengals. Kitna started for two years in Seattle and three in Cincinnati.

Kitna's career path has followed a progression. He starts for bad teams because he's better than the usual bad-team QB (would you rather have Aaron Brooks, Bruce Gradkowski, or Cleo Lemon??? Do you miss Stoney Case and Ty Detmer??? I think not.) But he's not good enough to carry a good team, so those teams found their franchise QBs (Hasselbeck, Palmer) and dumped Kitna. Good enough to start for a bad team, bad enough to be dumped by a good team.

Now, if I have my way, the Lions will trade for Matt Schaub, Kitna will sign with the Bucs, and the cycle will continue. But then again, it's blatantly obvious that there needs to be upgrades at every single position on offense before we need a new QB. We need a completely new offensive line (though I think that perhaps Jonathan Scott was showing some promise before his hip injury), we need a tight end that can consistently get open, we need a backup running back that's better than Arlen Harris or Aveion Cason (hell, we may need a starting running back if Kevin Jones can't go), and we need a receiver to complement Roy so Furrey can line up in the slot where he belongs. Most of which needs to happen BEFORE Kitna is replaced. The last thing we need is to draft yet another Holy Savior (especially if his name is Brady Quinn) and stick him under center right away. Kitna stays. (Though I'd have liked to see McCown and Orlovsky get a look.)

Kitna is not a good decision maker under pressure, and he can't scramble. But the offensive line couldn't protect him if the defense had to count one-Mississippi-two-Mississippi-three-Mississippi.

I never said that Kitna never had a starting job, I said that he could never hold one. Second, you're right, his career does follow a progression- from bad to worse. "Better than the usual bad-team qb"? The guy is 34 years old and holds the record of 31-49 as a starting quarterback in the National Football league- TRUST ME, the Lions did not find a diamond in the rough by signing him, which is exactly why he would be riding the pine for any respectable franchise or possibly back in NFL Europe where he belongs. You're right, there are many other holes that need to be filled before the Lions will be a successful franchise, which I don't think they ever will be, but quarterback is the key slot that most successful teams build around- after last night's debacle, I'm second guessing my desire to draft Quinn, but that doesn't mean that I think Kitna is the way to go. This organization is notrorious for bad moves (and non-moves)- As Lions fans, we neglect the fact that free-agency even exists due to our team's inactivity in the area; why can't Ford/Millen sign a capable QB that knows how to win? Probably a combination of the fact that they aren't smart enough, and that NOBODY EXCEPT FOR KITNA wants to come here. BTW, I would rather have Aaron Brooks.

Once again, another post where you ONLY look at the stats and nothing else. You wanna know why Joey had less picks? Because he never took any chances and all of his passes were 5 yard checkdowns! Enter Kitna, who plays under a high risk/high reward Mike Martz system. Look at Mark Bulger...he threw 14 in '04 and was on pace for 18 picks in '05. Kurt Warner had years of 18 (in 11 games!!) and 22 INTs. Im not excusing the fact that Kitna made alot of mistakes, but what i am saying is that alot of those are a product of the system and this notion that Joey was better because he threw less interceptions (under Mooch's bland safe offense) is way off the mark!

Martz's offense is garbage too. High risk/high reward??!!! I haven't seen any reward yet! There is no such thing as a running game in Mikey's scheme, and we don't have the talent at WR/QB to bomb the ball down the field after every snap. There is one thing that Martz had in STL that he doesn't have here...actually, two things...TALENT and DISCIPLINE. Bottom line is that Kitna is a "veteran"...I prefer the term "old" qb in his case, that should know when to throw and when not to throw the ball. The amount of turnovers that he committed this year was absolutely absurd- not only the INT's, but the 4th quarter INT's when the Lions were in a position to POSSIBLY come back, and the fumbles, fumbles, and more fumbles. You will NEVER win with a qb like Kitna, especially with this team.

Like I said, there is a reason that he's playing in Detroit, and its not because they thought he was the right fit.

[mannysBETTER3434 1]

Now, if I have my way, the Lions will trade for Matt Schaub, Kitna will sign with the Bucs, and the cycle will continue. But then again, it's blatantly obvious that there needs to be upgrades at every single position on offense before we need a new QB. We need a completely new offensive line (though I think that perhaps Jonathan Scott was showing some promise before his hip injury), we need a tight end that can consistently get open, we need a backup running back that's better than Arlen Harris or Aveion Cason (hell, we may need a starting running back if Kevin Jones can't go), and we need a receiver to complement Roy so Furrey can line up in the slot where he belongs. Most of which needs to happen BEFORE Kitna is replaced. The last thing we need is to draft yet another Holy Savior (especially if his name is Brady Quinn) and stick him under center right away. Kitna stays. (Though I'd have liked to see McCown and Orlovsky get a look.)

Kitna is not a good decision maker under pressure, and he can't scramble. But the offensive line couldn't protect him if the defense had to count one-Mississippi-two-Mississippi-three-Mississippi.

If the Lions got Schaub it would be the most excited I've got over the Lions since the Barry Sander years. I wonder if we will ever give Orvolsky a shot?

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Martz's offense is garbage too. High risk/high reward??!!! I haven't seen any reward yet! There is no such thing as a running game in Mikey's scheme, and we don't have the talent at WR/QB to bomb the ball down the field after every snap. There is one thing that Martz had in STL that he doesn't have here...actually, two things...TALENT and DISCIPLINE. Bottom line is that Kitna is a "veteran"...I prefer the term "old" qb in his case, that should know when to throw and when not to throw the ball. The amount of turnovers that he committed this year was absolutely absurd- not only the INT's, but the 4th quarter INT's when the Lions were in a position to POSSIBLY come back, and the fumbles, fumbles, and more fumbles. You will NEVER win with a qb like Kitna, especially with this team.

Like I said, there is a reason that he's playing in Detroit, and its not because they thought he was the right fit.

Before we call Martz's offense garbage, lets give him another offseason to acquire more of the players that fit the system. Im not saying we can win a SB with Kitna, my post was directed at eva unit zero's statement about Harrington having less turnovers here, hence him being a better QB. Anybody who knows anything at all about the Lions knows that Joey hardly ever threw the ball downfield. Thats what i mean about high risk/high reward, what has a better chance of getting intercepted,...a ball thrown down the field or a 5 yard dump off to your fullback? (on 3rd and 10 of course in famous Joey fashion)

[eva unit zero 271]

Before we call Martz's offense garbage, lets give him another offseason to acquire more of the players that fit the system. Im not saying we can win a SB with Kitna, my post was directed at eva unit zero's statement about Harrington having less turnovers here, hence him being a better QB. Anybody who knows anything at all about the Lions knows that Joey hardly ever threw the ball downfield. Thats what i mean about high risk/high reward, what has a better chance of getting intercepted,...a ball thrown down the field or a 5 yard dump off to your fullback? (on 3rd and 10 of course in famous Joey fashion)

Harrington did not throw downfield because that's what he was told to do.

I would take Harrington ten days a week over Kitna under the NEW system as well.

I said it before Kitna played a down for the Lions; It was a mistake to replace Joey with him.

Harrington>>>Kitna