Florida Wants Hudler For Bertuzzi

[PRStoetzer 1]

I'd trade Hudler and a conditional 2nd round pick to Florida for Bertuzzi and future considerations. The pick would be conditional on games played (with it dropping to the fifth round if he plays no playoff games). The future considerations would be Hudler himself if Bertuzzi plays no playoff games and does not resign with the Wings.

[Guest ZetterBurger40]

Of course Florida WANTS Hudler/Perry, but I can see Holland swinging a deal involving a lesser prospect/picks.

From TSN

That may be the way to go...

[Heaton 1]

Florida also has to save face, at this point they traded Luongo for Bryan Allen.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

Wow, if that’s all the Panthers are asking then I would do that deal in a heartbeat. I’m a big fan of Hudler and everyone knows where I stand on trading away young players, but Bertuzzi is too good to refuse IMO.

[RedWingsFanatic 4]

I don't really have the time to make a long post. But, in short, Todd Bertuzzi is exactly what the Detroit Red Wings need. Exactly.

In my eyes, Hudler is an incredibly small price to pay. He's never really going to mature into the scoring phenom that many people intially thought. Bringing in Bertuzzi, even if it's only for the remainder of the season and playoffs, makes sense. And if the above rumor is true about a soft deal, it makes the decision even easier. This would be a huge step in the right direction.

[LeftWinger 5,135]

I'll rephrase;

Left Winger said Abdelkader now is better than Hudler was at the same point, and implied that would continue to be true. It has been shown over and over that Hudler has consistently been better than Datsyuk at comparable points in their careers. Assuming LW's logic of 'continue to be true' that must mean Hudler WILL be better in the next six years than Datsyuk was over the past few years. So, by the transitive rule, Abdelkader would be a physical player whose overall ability would be SIGNIFICANTLY greater than Datsyuk in his prime. Shanahan was the most obvious choice that fit this description.

Holland has been criticized ruthlessly by those who felt he should have drafted a certain potential power forward instead of Abdelkader. So that means that either the criticism is way off base and Holland drafted a top PF prospect in Abdelkader, OR that LW's assessment of Hudler's ability is quite distant from reality.

...Hudler was better at every stage in his career than Datsyuk? Well except this one. Why is it that Hudler has been in the minors his entire career and Dats has NEVER? And they have been in the organization pretty much the same amount of time. (Datsyuk' rookie year being the year they drafted Hudler.) Hmmmm, I guess being good in the minors does not translate into the big leagues. I know, now you are going to say the same about Abdelkader, but if you look at redwingscentral.com prospect report, Justin is #6 right now, Hudler was never in the top 5, so he was never considered better by the scouts at that point in his career... That was my point...

...all I was saying is if we had to get rid of Hudler, lets face it, it's gonna take someone to get someone, we would still have plenty of younger prospects with just as good as potential as Hudler, if not better...

...would you rather trade Abdelkader or Hudler for Bertuzzi?

[Guest ZetterBurger40]

Hudler is just as expandable as Williams and lilja.

That is untrue and just plain dumb. Hudler is a natural goal scorer- he snipes, he picks up garbage in front of the net, AND he creates chances for his linemates- something that NEITHER of the guys that you mentioned do (with much more ice time).

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

You guys were all pissed about Holland bring Hasek back because of his health issues too. Our doctors gave him a thorough physical to assure he is prime. So far, so good.

With that said, have bert checked out by our docs.... if they conclude he's in good shape and ready to go, bring him here, NOW!

Hudler isn't anything special. He's too little and I dunno, his size alone makes him more of risk than Bert. One solid hit could end Huds career in a millisecond!

Get Bert check out now!

Hudler is just as expandable as Williams and lilja. Give them all 3 for Bert and a 100th round pick.

EDIT: As far as Bert being a rental player, who knows... he may like it here. He would make a great Shannys replacement.

It sounds like to me everyone just expects Burtuzzi to be great. He has only scored 30 goals twice and hasn't done it in 3 years now. He had two great seasons with the Canucks. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't he on a line with Naslund and Morrison? That is one heck of a line. Don't be so quick dump our players when we don't know what we're getting

[dragonballgtz 273]

Hudler is never gonna shine here. Period. Let's say we keep him, then next off-season whe the age of UFA's go down, and we sign a bunch of guys, Hudler will not even make the club. We have to do something to trump the Nashville trade, and I say if Kenny doesn't give them Hudler for Bertuzzi, then he will only fall another notch on my (and many others) good standing list...

No we don't. You need to make a trade that can help you in the current season and maybe future seasons not because you want to have a bigger trade then some other team. A potential #2 centerman for a man with serious back problems is not what I call a good trade.

[ShanahanMan 473]

bad news kiddos.......

"Meanwhile, Todd Bertuzzi was back on the ice, jumping into some drills while skipping others. Charron still won’t give a timetable on his possible return but it looks to be at least Saturday and more probably next week before he’s in the lineup. Either way, he’s pretty much been scratched off the list of guys who could be traded." -Panthers sports writer, Brian Biggane

Not sure if this is 100% certain but I think it shows a Bertuzzi trade isn't as certain as some think.....

[betterREDthandead 58]

That's a pretty big slip. No matter what he does or how well he plays, he's always going to be known for hitting Steve Moore from behind and dragging his head onto the ice. It may not be fair, but that's what he's known for. That's what I meant by headcase

Ah, that's where I disagree big time. Detroit as a sports town in general is building up a nice reputation for athletes to come, wipe the slate clean, and get a second chance. I take some pride that we have fans who will forgive and forget incidents in the past - all we ask is that a guy demonstrate a genuine work ethic and unselfishness, and we'll embrace him. Great place to shed questions about your character. Kenny Rogers and 'Sheed are prime examples. Pudge and Cheli to a lesser extent. I think Bertuzzi, if healthy, would be a terrific fit, and I have to believe that a guy like Bertuzzi would be positively thrilled to come to Hockeytown and leave Hockeypurgatory. Florida is where hockey careers go to die.

And finally, I've got a good feeling about getting Bertuzzi. If Anaheim is the other front-runner, and Florida wants Perry out of them? Good lord, I'd trade five Hudlers for Corey Perry. We may or may not lose Rex in a Bertuzzi trade, but you'd have to pry Corey Perry out of Brian Burke's cold dead hands.

[WingMachine91 0]

well i am in favor of trading hudler for tuzzi, but i dont like when people say hudler will amount to nothing because hes small.....can anyone say martin st. louis. hes small, quick and can score, this is what we can hope of hudler. of course not as fast a skater, but as long as huds is smart, he should be fine. so i would do the trade, but wouldnt be pissed if we ended up keeping hudler.

side note: i really cant wait and hope grigorenko will play for our team next year. i remember he was pretty much a better version of kovalchuk back in the day, and i know this because i am russian and have family in russia. and when i was talking with my uncle who lives there and brought up kovalchuk during his rookie year, he said over in russia, girgorenko(polly spelled wrong) was considered a better version of illya...so lets just hope

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

Burtuzzi ended a man's hockey career on his "mistake". I'm not exactly sure what Moore's condition is right now, but it isn't good. You can't really compare Cheli/Rogers to him. Cheli was dirty and crazy when he was younger, but did he ever end someone's career, especially the way burtuzzi did? And Rogers with that camera man? I guarentee that camera man got a very decent compensation for being thrown to the ground and probably was happy it happened. None of the players you named did anything close to what Burtuzzi did.

Edited February 20, 2007 by Mudvayneowns91

[betterREDthandead 58]

Burtuzzi ended a man's hockey career on his "mistake". I'm not exactly sure what Moore's condition is right now, but it isn't good. You can't really compare Cheli/Rogers to him. Cheli was dirty and crazy when he was younger, but did he ever end someone's career, especially the way burtuzzi did? And Rogers with that camera man? I guarentee that camera man got a very decent compensation for being thrown to the ground and probably was happy it happened. None of the players you named did anything close to what Burtuzzi did.

I don't care what the end result was, Rogers, Sheed, and Bertuzzi all did basically the same thing. They let their tempers get the better of them and they attacked someone who pissed them off. Sheed nearly came to blows with a ref on a loading ramp. Rogers assaulted a cameraman. Bertuzzi sucker-punched Steve Moore. Cheli, for all we can guess, was as likely as anyone to have been the one to chuck hotel furniture out the window in Nagano. Whatever the end result, I consider them more or less the same. All of them committed the same sin of letting their rage get the best of them. That the cameraman got a check out of it has absolutely nothing to do with this. Sheed and Kenny had reputations that were completely in the dumpster before they got here, and since then, they've had a renaissance. Bertuzzi can be the same way.

[Guest Crymson]

bad news kiddos.......

"Meanwhile, Todd Bertuzzi was back on the ice, jumping into some drills while skipping others. Charron still won’t give a timetable on his possible return but it looks to be at least Saturday and more probably next week before he’s in the lineup. Either way, he’s pretty much been scratched off the list of guys who could be traded." -Panthers sports writer, Brian Biggane

Not sure if this is 100% certain but I think it shows a Bertuzzi trade isn't as certain as some think.....

I think people either missed or chose to ignore this one. Odd, because it's probably the most important post in this thread.

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

I don't care what the end result was, Rogers, Sheed, and Bertuzzi all did basically the same thing. They let their tempers get the better of them and they attacked someone who pissed them off. Sheed nearly came to blows with a ref on a loading ramp. Rogers assaulted a cameraman. Bertuzzi sucker-punched Steve Moore. Cheli, for all we can guess, was as likely as anyone to have been the one to chuck hotel furniture out the window in Nagano. Whatever the end result, I consider them more or less the same. All of them committed the same sin of letting their rage get the best of them. That the cameraman got a check out of it has absolutely nothing to do with this. Sheed and Kenny had reputations that were completely in the dumpster before they got here, and since then, they've had a renaissance. Bertuzzi can be the same way.

That's absurd. It's commical that you claim that the camera man was "assulted" and Moore was only "suckerpunched". There's a huge difference. One man is going to be able to walk and have a normal life whereas the other man is pretty much handicaped and will never live a normal life. You're right, everyone of those athletes have had rage, but if you ignore the result than why not ignore the rage too.

[betterREDthandead 58]

I think people either missed or chose to ignore this one. Odd, because it's probably the most important post in this thread.

I would put more weight into it if it was a national writer and not a Panthers beat writer, who is probably a smidge biased. And if Bertuzzi gets into the lineup Saturday, well, the deadline isn't til the following Tuesday, so there will still be evaluation time.

[dragonballgtz 273]

...Hudler was better at every stage in his career than Datsyuk? Well except this one. Why is it that Hudler has been in the minors his entire career and Dats has NEVER? And they have been in the organization pretty much the same amount of time. (Datsyuk' rookie year being the year they drafted Hudler.) Hmmmm, I guess being good in the minors does not translate into the big leagues. I know, now you are going to say the same about Abdelkader, but if you look at redwingscentral.com prospect report, Justin is #6 right now, Hudler was never in the top 5, so he was never considered better by the scouts at that point in his career... That was my point...

Hudler was drafted at the age of 18 while Datsyuk was 20 when he was drafted. Datsyuk took 4 years before he was ready to play in the NHL. It has taken Hudler about the same amount of time but Hudler has been playing in the AHL because he needed to get us to the North American style of hockey as well as he was doing great in the Czech leagues.

A easier way to look at it is at 20 years old Datsyuk was just being drafted. Hudler at 20 was playing in the AHL. If Hudler, IMO, is givin a better chance at the NHL lvl there would be no discusion about trading him for a rental brittle player.

[eva unit zero 271]

Giving Hudler more ice time will only increase his chances to leveled buy a NHL hockey player. Hudler is a Career AHL'r, he's too soft for NHL.

Sorry, can't be bias just because he wears red and white... I'll be the first one here to take off the blinders and call it like it is... Hudler is going to be nothing more than a 20 goal scorer at best.

Only 14pts in 70 games....c'mon!!!!

....and you wish to call me "Dumb"? LoL!

We'd be lucky to get a Bertuzzi type caliber for a itty bitty Huds.

Hudler has been playing around 8 minutes a night with linemates who aren't exactly offensively gited. On a scoring line--say, with Lang and Cleary--and with top-six ice time, Hoodlum would do major damage. Hudler has 9 goals and 2 assists for 11 points. The guys who have been his primary linemates--Filppula, Kopecky, Norton, Ellis, Langfeld--combine for 6 goals and 6 assists for 12 points. If you assume rather than carrying about 50% of the points and 60% of the goals from his line, he would carry about 30% of each on a scoring line..that still means that in Williams' spot he would have a stat line of 15-15-30, which would put him 5th in goals and 8th in points on the team. If you assume his +/- also receives the 172% increase, that's an increase of +12 to +19, which would be fourth on the team and third among forwards, behind only Dats and Z.

Plus, if you read the first post, it says Hudler is required 'in any trade' not 'as the sole player involved' meaning any PACKAGE of players must INCLUDE Hudler.

[Guest Crymson]

Hudler has been playing around 8 minutes a night with linemates who aren't exactly offensively gited. On a scoring line--say, with Lang and Cleary--and with top-six ice time, Hoodlum would do major damage. Hudler has 9 goals and 2 assists for 11 points. The guys who have been his primary linemates--Filppula, Kopecky, Norton, Ellis, Langfeld--combine for 6 goals and 6 assists for 12 points. If you assume rather than carrying about 50% of the points and 60% of the goals from his line, he would carry about 30% of each on a scoring line..that still means that in Williams' spot he would have a stat line of 15-15-30, which would put him 5th in goals and 8th in points on the team. If you assume his +/- also receives the 172% increase, that's an increase of +12 to +19, which would be fourth on the team and third among forwards, behind only Dats and Z.

Plus, if you read the first post, it says Hudler is required 'in any trade' not 'as the sole player involved' meaning any PACKAGE of players must INCLUDE Hudler.

Hudler is no Datsyuk. Think otherwise? Have fun arguing with the rest of the hockey world.

[betterREDthandead 58]

That's absurd. It's commical that you claim that the camera man was "assulted" and Moore was only "suckerpunched". There's a huge difference. One man is going to be able to walk and have a normal life whereas the other man is pretty much handicaped and will never live a normal life. You're right, everyone of those athletes have had rage, but if you ignore the result than why not ignore the rage too.

Keep in mind, if you've seen the videos of both, Bertuzzi hit Moore once and tackled him. Whether or not Moore's neck was broken by that blow or the weight of several other players piling on top has always been up for debate. Whereas Kenny went after the cameraman, not once, not twice....multiple times. After it appeared the incident was over, he did it again.

If Moore hadn't landed awkwardly or other players landed awkwardly on top of him, we wouldn't be talking about this. The result skews the perception. In no way am I defending what Bertuzzi did, but I don't see how the intent between Kenny and Bertuzzi was any different. Both were pissed. Both committed a very public act of assault. Suppose Kenny had done nothing different in repeatedly shoving the cameraman, and the cameraman had gone over a railing into the dugout, breaking his neck in the process, instead of falling to the grass?

[eva unit zero 271]

Hudler is no Datsyuk. Think otherwise? Have fun arguing with the rest of the hockey world.

Hudler is better than Dats was at the same age.

Hudler is also several years younger.

For all any of us know, Hudler could turn out better than Zetterberg.

[SwedeLundin77 460]

That's a pretty big slip. No matter what he does or how well he plays, he's always going to be known for hitting Steve Moore from behind and dragging his head onto the ice. It may not be fair, but that's what he's known for. That's what I meant by headcase

What Bertuzzi did was vicious... but the problem I have is when people make a terrible incident/accident into more than it was. Bertuzzi did NOT "drag Moore's head onto the ice." There was a little force called momentum and when Moore got knocked out, he stopped skating and Bertuzzi did not realize this and was already leaning forward, thus momentum carried his forward motion into the non-moving Moore. Bertuzzi could not have known that Moore was knocked unconcious and could not brace his fall. Just realize that you, like many others who don't take a good look at that footage, over-dramatize the incident after the hit from behind. I think Bertuzzi was an idiot for doing what he did, but let's not drag him down even further with that crap - the guy was obviously remorseful and apologized publicly which is noble in itself.

[Rice 42]

For all any of us know, Hudler could turn out better than Zetterberg.

Right, and Kopecky could turn out better than Iginla.

What signs (and please don't pull stats out on me) has Hudler shown that he has a prayer at being better than Zetterberg? He's not a strong skater and has, well, deficiencies playing defense.

[Guest Crymson]

Right, and Kopecky could turn out better than Iginla.

What signs (and please don't pull stats out on me) has Hudler shown that he has a prayer at being better than Zetterberg? He's not a strong skater and has, well, deficiencies playing defense.

I agree--- utter conjecture.