OsGOD 3 Report post Posted May 23, 2007 Manny Legace had stats much like Hasek through the season (actually better I think). But like hasek made some very bonehead plays that cost us games. I guess that is my point... there is no such thing as "the long term Future" for the goaltending role in Detroit. NOBODY lasts longer than 2 season any more as starter.... We lose you are the first to get replaced..... nevermind the other guys didn't show up for the most part. In Detroit the only future a goaltender has is picking out a new house in a different town the following season. I am not at all sure Howard won't fall apart like Manny did.... He should start as a backup first to see how he handles that role... and slowly be worked into the starting rotation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
puckloo39 5,686 Report post Posted May 23, 2007 The only way you will be spared another season of watching Hasek win games as a Red Wing is if you don't watch. I wouldn't want you to suffer. Dom will get the job in Detroit as #1 if he wants it. As for running out and getting anyone else for 3X or 4X the contract, the Wings are going to have to cut loose some other players in order to afford that. Ottawa mortgaged their future to pay Gerber and look how that worked out. Lucky for them, Emery has been just good enough to step in and win for them. What makes you think Dom will ask for more money, when he's proved without question that he isn't in this for the money? I doubt seriously that Dom will ask for what he's actually worth, but most likely will agree to play for about what he was paid this season, if he comes back at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DEVILSWATERBOY 10 Report post Posted May 23, 2007 Do we stay with a goalie who lays on his back and has no idea were the damm puck is because he is not looking for and hoping that he has it covered or do we go with Ozzie whom has also won us a cup here in Detroit and bring Howard up to backup Ozzie; no 1 as a goalie stay square to the shooter, and do not wander out of the net to far dont get me wrong Dom is still a good goalie but at least 2 goals last night were scored while he was on his back flopping around like a fish it just may be time to move past Dom and go with Ozzie next year and bring up Howard the next year Ozzie is more than capable to handle the load and a run in the playoffs we all have to remember that this was the start of are rebuilding years and so far not to shabby so lets get that Russian kid over here sign a big d-man get 1 more power foward bye Lang and lets have another great season next year Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted May 23, 2007 The only way I personally would like to see Ozzie as the starter is if Howard is his back up and gets a hell of lot more starts than Ozzie did this year. BTW Ozzie should have started more, it is hard to argue with a team winning the conference but if hasek had got hurt I would not have felt save with Ozzie in there simply due to lack of ice time he would have needed 2 weeks to get into game shape. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Learn2LuvIt 245 Report post Posted May 23, 2007 Dom single handly won us about three-four games this playoffs. I don't see why playing such a young guy so soon would help this team win more. Yes, it may help his development, but we are not in the developing young player business at the NHL level (Grand Rapids--absolutely is, but not the big leagues/NHL), we are in the winning games business. Yes, these two elements often go hand-in-hand to building winning teams, but Dom was a huge part to us getting as far as we did. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stu in Israel 0 Report post Posted May 23, 2007 I admit to not having read all of the previous postings, I just jumped on this one from "Opie:" How do we really know that Howard isn't ready, unless the person who says that is some how in the know. Is this guy in the know? "According to Grand Rapids Griffins general manager Bob McNamara, the 23-year-old goaltender could use another year of seasoning in the American Hockey League before making the jump to the big club." "At this time last year, McNamara correctly tabbed Valtteri Filppula and Jiri Hudler as ready to step into the NHL. He also identified Tomas Kopecky as another who could make the jump." (both quotes from Red Wings Central) Do some of you actually follow the Wings or do you just do blah-blah; or, is it that rah, rah college spirit that's at work here?! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted May 23, 2007 (edited) I am not saying start him over Dom next year, this post was in response to IF DOM RETIRES!! I may be a Howard fan or a Datsyuk fan but above all I am a Red Wings fan and I want to see the team do what is best and gives them the best chance to win the cup. Hey Stu, Thanks for jumping in with such a great lets debate attitude instead of just insulting people!! Next time try and read the whole thread before just jumping in. My questions were designed to get the answer you just gave me, not stating that Howard above and beyond anything else should be the starter. But thanks again for the insult it shows a lot of maturity, as opposed to that blah-blah or rah rah college spirit that I was spewing forth! edit: spelling Edited May 23, 2007 by Opie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Matt 1,048 Report post Posted May 23, 2007 Let me just say that I don't think Howard would be *bad* if he played with the big club next season but I think he has far more to gain by playing another season in the A. He was spectacular for long stretches last season with the Griffins but suffered through a minor "sophomore slump" this season for a lesser Griffins team. He finished strong and put up fantastic playoff numbers, but I think another year of seasoning would do wonders for him. He may get his chance next year, anyway, if Hasek re-signs and can't stay healthy the entire year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DEVILSWATERBOY 10 Report post Posted May 23, 2007 Dom single handly won us about three-four games this playoffs. I don't see why playing such a young guy so soon would help this team win more. Yes, it may help his development, but we are not in the developing young player business at the NHL level (Grand Rapids--absolutely is, but not the big leagues/NHL), we are in the winning games business. Yes, these two elements often go hand-in-hand to building winning teams, but Dom was a huge part to us getting as far as we did. ok I will give him that but him laying on his back for 2 goals last night is not excusable Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Izzy24 44 Report post Posted May 23, 2007 Howard's not ready now, and he'll never be ready, he sucks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elshupacabra 0 Report post Posted May 23, 2007 From what I have seen of him, I don't think Howard is ready. If we play Howard as a starter next year, I wouldn't expect to make the Playoffs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hillbillywingsfan 792 Report post Posted May 23, 2007 howard is not ready and ozzie is not a starter period. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redwingfan19 293 Report post Posted May 23, 2007 So everyone thinks Howard isn't ready??? Well I got news for you people, he will never be ready if he doesn't ever get a shot. Im getting annoyed at the fact that we have all these great young prospect rotting away in GR. As much as I love Cheli, Dom and some of the other older players its time to move on ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Crymson Report post Posted May 23, 2007 We need to look at the future now, during the season Ozzie wasn't much of a step down from Hasek. If we really think Howard is our future franchise goaltender than we should give him a shot it may be a little rough at first but look how it worked for Ryan Miller in Buffalo. Plus the way we play now he will only face 20-25 shots a night that should make things easier on him. Dom isn't getting younger but our avg team age is, if Howard is allowed to develope we could have him at the top of his game in time for the playoffs next year. Sure we may not finish first again but what has that gotten us lately anyway. Dom will always be the same, he will be a guy you love one minute and hate the next (i.e. Loved him in game 5 but hated him in game 4 & 6). If there were any real good Free Agent goaltenders I would say we could give them a 1 or 2 year deal and let Howard play maybe 30 games, but there aren't any out there that aren't going to cost 5 mil plus. Uhh... with all apologies to the Ozzie clique, wouldn't it be better to do a Hasek/Howard tandem? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OsGOD 3 Report post Posted May 23, 2007 (edited) Not really... its all speculation that Ozzie couldn't cut it... Really speculation is were all the battles start.... There is no proof that Ozzie couldn't handle the starting roll again and there is nothing but speculation saying this same team wouldn't fare the same with Ozzie in net this season. I understand your concerns about ozzie I have the same about Dom... Dom played far less than dominate in the WCF's giving up 4 goals in 3 of the 4 loses. With ozzie you act as if the glass is half empty... I act as if the glass is half full. With dom I act as if the glass is half empty... you act as if the glass is half full. Everyone thought manny could handle it being number one (when he wasn't) as soon as he was given the shot... he blew it. Everyone thinks Ozzie is no longer a starter... Perhaps he too could prove everyone wrong... given a chance. Edited May 23, 2007 by OsGOD Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Crymson Report post Posted May 23, 2007 So everyone thinks Howard isn't ready??? Well I got news for you people, he will never be ready if he doesn't ever get a shot. Im getting annoyed at the fact that we have all these great young prospect rotting away in GR. As much as I love Cheli, Dom and some of the other older players its time to move on ! If the guy can't win consistently at the AHL level, he won't do in the NHL. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shannyfan1414 0 Report post Posted May 23, 2007 Howard will be good but lets give him another couple of years before he takes over the starting role. Bring back Dom as long as he doesn't decide to hang them up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Matt 1,048 Report post Posted May 23, 2007 Howard's not ready now, and he'll never be ready, he sucks. Based on what, exactly? A few early-season call-up games? Please. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingsWingsWings 3 Report post Posted May 23, 2007 If we are going to do a goalie shakeup just do to a goalie shakeup becuase it is the only thing Detroit knows after playoff exits... Then I say I don't want another offseason of trying to use duct tape to put a temporoary patch on our post season problems. Apart from the last series our team GAA was around 1.67... We couldn't score more that that? Sounds to me like its a forward issue and not entirely a goaltender issue. Every post season its the same thing... We lose... Gotta get a new "better Goalie". then we do that and we still lose... then we get an even "better" goalie... then we lose... the we get the "best" goalie... then we lose... See the pattern? its not goaltending! Something about the team not giving a full 60 min effort is what needs to be addressed. Now if we are doing the goalie shakeup in the background as the real issues are being addressed then I don't mind it as much. As long as Ozzie is in the system, I am content. What's the point? Seriously. If Dom doesn't retire...keep Dom and Ozzie. If he does. I'm not sure. I guess then we could entertain making Ozzie #1 and bring up Howard as backup. I have faith that Ozzie would be fine, but if it's not broke - don't fix it, and Dom's been fine. Everyone always thinks when we lose it's the goalie...that's the joke of it. Jimmy Howard will be eaten alive here. to both. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ktrain Report post Posted May 23, 2007 Not really... its all speculation that Ozzie couldn't cut it... Really speculation is were all the battles start.... There is no proof that Ozzie couldn't handle the starting roll again and there is nothing but speculation saying this same team wouldn't fare the same with Ozzie in net this season. I understand your concerns about ozzie I have the same about Dom... Dom played far less than dominate in the WCF's giving up 4 goals in 3 of the 4 loses. With ozzie you act as if the glass is half empty... I act as if the glass is half full. With dom I act as if the glass is half empty... you act as if the glass is half full. Well it seems that Hasek is that kind of person that when things aren't going well during a game or a previous game that he played, he gets very nervous and does things that show he's not keeping his cool.Like when he wanders around the net and get caught out.One thing he does a lot also is fall over on his back which he did three times last night in which it was easy fot the ducks to throw it over him.He was a good goalie back in the 90's when he was in Buffalo, but he can't flip around like that anymore and just doesn't get up very fast like he used to.The Detroit defence played very well a couple of games ago like in Gme 5 and he needs that help for them to stay in the game.I also think when a team has a good goal tender making good stops and is a stand up style goal tender, the team plays better defensively to show their goalie they are going to help him as he helps them.Detroit never came out last night in the first two periods like we all have seen them perform and i was yelling my head off like anyone would when their team comes out flat.Detroit can beat anyone when they want but they also need a good goal tender to keep them in it when they need it.When I watched Game 5 the first thing that came to mind was to try Osgood out for the first peroid to see what he would play like because i saw that nervous look that Hasek had after the Ducks tied it up.By the way i am from Vancouver B.C. and we finally are Luckily enough to aquire a good Goal Tender (Luongo) so i can see why it's so important for the Wings to have one.Wings fan since 95 here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheCaptain19 49 Report post Posted May 23, 2007 hasek needs to hang em up. ozzie and howard or another fa can do the job next year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ttbrunke 0 Report post Posted May 23, 2007 (edited) I admit to not having read all of the previous postings, I just jumped on this one from "Opie:" How do we really know that Howard isn't ready, unless the person who says that is some how in the know. Is this guy in the know? "According to Grand Rapids Griffins general manager Bob McNamara, the 23-year-old goaltender could use another year of seasoning in the American Hockey League before making the jump to the big club." "At this time last year, McNamara correctly tabbed Valtteri Filppula and Jiri Hudler as ready to step into the NHL. He also identified Tomas Kopecky as another who could make the jump." (both quotes from Red Wings Central) Do some of you actually follow the Wings or do you just do blah-blah; or, is it that rah, rah college spirit that's at work here?! Well next time before coming in here and throwing isults you might want to read the whole thread, I agree that there will be a learning curve but he hasn't seen the NHL game enough yet to judge him. Get him some starts and by the time the playoffs com around he will hopefully be in top NHL form. How many times did hasek face less than 20 shots and allow 3 goals or more during the season. Hasek had a .913 SV% and in the 4 games that Howard played he had a .908 SV%(not bad for only 4 scattered games of action). I don't think it will be that much of a drop off, but I think we have to see Edited May 23, 2007 by ttbrunke Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted May 23, 2007 He won 27 games out of 38 last year, and 21 out of 42 this year. Now a .500 record is not exactly stunning however you have to consider the team in front of him, there wasn't a ton of talent in front of him. I do believe that if Dom does not return we should give the net to Howard and Ozzie. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bert44Wingsfan 0 Report post Posted May 23, 2007 Great point, however I worry that the wings will become like the Yankees in the fact that once a top tier guy gets hurt they have given up all their young talent and their is no one left to fill the void that has any real talent. I agree. I look at so many other teams like New Jersey with Martin Brodeur, Calgary with Kiprusoff and I see a lot of solidarity. Detroit has never or at least recently had that with their goaltender. Look at the goalies they've switched around - Vernon, Ozzie, Ranford, Ozzie, Dom, Cujo, Legace, and Dom again. The problem is that we're always looking for the quick fix - because for whatever reason we always need the "it" goalie. Eventually what you're going to have happen is what the Yankees and the Astros did with Roger Clemens; spend an ungodly amount of money on a goalie who'll only give you maybe a year's contribution such as in the case with Clemens in Houston. Cultivating talent in net should be a priority for the Wings although it never has been. We need reliability not temporary fixes. Understandably in some cases, some guys just don't work. Manny proved last year he couldn't be the reliable guy in net for the Wings. Do I think Jimmy Howard is ready? If Legace wasn't, Howard certainly isn't. But the Wings should brand Howard into a guy who could be ready if Dom retires after next season. Bringing more goalies out of retirement like Patrick Roy or close to retirement is stupid and it goes back to point about Clemens. If you're going to go out and get a FA goalie, get a young guy who'll give you some good years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wing Nut 0 Report post Posted May 23, 2007 What have you seen from him (Howard) that would suggest that he is any good at all?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
