Drake vs Lang....who is better?

[Covenant 0]

It's plays like Drake's hit on Lebda that makes me dislike his game.. but, at least he's on OUR side now!

Lang was far from the terrible player he is depicted as being, but his salary and poor playoff performance pretty much guaranteed he'd not be back. I haven't seen enough of Drake's play to evaluate him though.. but for $550K or so, I think it's the right move to make. Wings have to keep cashola ready for Zetterberg's new/big contract. Likely he'll be asking for $6-$7M per I'd think.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Lang was far from the terrible player he is depicted as being, but his salary and poor playoff performance pretty much guaranteed he'd not be back.

Agreed. Lang wasn't a talentless sack of crap. But he didn't earn his salary or show any motivation to improve his poor performance this year.

He looked lazy and unmotivated all year and during 90% of the playoffs. Combine that with a slump year and an attitude at odds with the coach and you've got a ticket out of town.

Of course people go overboard with him, but all the responses we see here on hockey matters are pretty bi-polar compared to a season analyst's opinion.

[Kp-Wings 3]

These two cannot be compared, considering they both play totally different roles.

Just for the hell of it though: Drake. I've always been a Dallas Drake fan. On the other hand, it's the exact opposite for Lang.

[BigTex 1]

For the upcoming season, definately Drake. Even if he doesn't score much, he's there to put a hurt on people. We need that more than a 15 goal scorer at this point.

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

Apples and Oranges. even on his worse days Lang is more naturally gifted than drake will ever be, howev er we signed Drake for a phsyical checking vetren pressence. Lang meanwhile was meant to anchor the second line ( which he did, just lazly.)

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Apples and Oranges. even on his worse days Lang is more naturally gifted than drake will ever be, howev er we signed Drake for a phsyical checking vetren pressence. Lang meanwhile was meant to anchor the second line ( which he did, just lazly.)

Nevermind.

misread your post.

thought you said Lang was brought here to be a physical checking presence.

Edited July 10, 2007 by haroldsnepsts

[high_stick69 7]

OK, we've all done well establishing the fact that they are different kinds of players. Next time I'll call the thread Drake vs Lang... who makes the Red Wings better?

[Albeh 1]

That's an impossible question. Drake brings different assets. He's a great energy player, but prone to bad penalties. Lang's a puck control scorer. Drake's quick. Lang is a big and decent faceoff guy. Which one do you want? Probably it depends on how well either get along with the coach.

[OsGOD 3]

OK, we've all done well establishing the fact that they are different kinds of players. Next time I'll call the thread Drake vs Lang... who makes the Red Wings better?

Langer can score the goals to send us to OT extending the Playoffs for a bit longer...

Drake can lay people out with a hit...

I am guessing both were/are great for the team in different ways.

[Yzerfan1999 81]

Lang is a better hockey player. He has more skill and potential then Drake.

Problem is - he doesnt always use it.

Drake MAY be more valuable to this team - but only time will tell.

As for 'who is better'? Lang by leaps and bounds.

[KronwallCRUNCH 5]

In Babcock's system, Drake will be a more valuble player than Lang ala Cleary. I do think Lang will put up decent numbers in Chicago, but I'm very glad he's gone.

[210th Pick 0]

Yup.

Lang.

Or were you saying that a kid who scored 10 goals and 7 assists is better than Lang who scored 19 goals and 33 assists and was +12, just because he looked like he was working harder?

Flip has a lot of potential and can hopefully help fill the second line role, but if we're talking about last season here, Lang was better.

Well, if you really want to be accurate, you can't just throw the stats out like that. A truly accurate stat would be points per minute played, and that has Lang leading Filpula .038 to .021. But then you factor in the fact that Lang was paid over 4 times more than Filpula. And the fact that he's slowling down with age, and Filpula is only getting better.

You know what? No, Lang is not better; likely not as a player, and definitely not as a business decision. Filpula is a better bet not only for overall quality next season, but a more valuable player for the future.

Drake didn't replace Lang. Drake most likely joins Drapes and Malts on the grind line. We'll count on a player like Filpula to blossom and replace Langs production.

And it's not even a question of it being a gamble (will he or won't he replace Lang's production). If you waste money on giving a guy like Lang valuable minutes, you stunt the growth of a guy like Filpula by robbing him of those minutes.

I really think this will be a great season for Kenny to leave a little cap space free, set up a Filpula, Hudler, Grigorenko second line, and play a little sink or swim for the first quarter of the season. Kopecky can threaten their roster spot, and If someone really sinks, Kenny's got plenty of money to get a player BETTER than Lang to solidify the line. We'll have a great third line with Sammy, Cleary, and Franzen, and a decent grind line.

[Guest REDWINGS4LYFE]

the langer is betta for sure

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Well, if you really want to be accurate, you can't just throw the stats out like that. A truly accurate stat would be points per minute played, and that has Lang leading Filpula .038 to .021. But then you factor in the fact that Lang was paid over 4 times more than Filpula. And the fact that he's slowling down with age, and Filpula is only getting better.

You know what? No, Lang is not better; likely not as a player, and definitely not as a business decision. Filpula is a better bet not only for overall quality next season, but a more valuable player for the future.

Drake didn't replace Lang. Drake most likely joins Drapes and Malts on the grind line. We'll count on a player like Filpula to blossom and replace Langs production.

And it's not even a question of it being a gamble (will he or won't he replace Lang's production). If you waste money on giving a guy like Lang valuable minutes, you stunt the growth of a guy like Filpula by robbing him of those minutes.

I really think this will be a great season for Kenny to leave a little cap space free, set up a Filpula, Hudler, Grigorenko second line, and play a little sink or swim for the first quarter of the season. Kopecky can threaten their roster spot, and If someone really sinks, Kenny's got plenty of money to get a player BETTER than Lang to solidify the line. We'll have a great third line with Sammy, Cleary, and Franzen, and a decent grind line.

How is points per minute a truly accurate stat, particularly when dealing with a player not seeing much ice time? By that measure Hudler should be the star of the team and making more than Dats and Z combined.

If you read my original post, you'll see I specified I was talking about last season. Potential doesn't mean jack. It's what they did on the ice.

Why do you think Babcock gave Lang those minutes and not Flip? because Lang makes more money? No. Because he was a skilled veteran who gave the team a better chance to win.

As I've said a million times now, it was time for Lang to go. I agree that Lang is on the decline. And I think Flip has a lot of potential, but let's be realistic. Last season Lang was the better player.

And I hope that Holland picks up someone to improve that second line.

Edited July 11, 2007 by haroldsnepsts

[KronwallCRUNCH 5]

As I've said a million times now, it was time for Lang to go. I agree that Lang is on the decline. And I think Flip has a lot of potential, but let's be realistic. Last season Lang was the better player.

So you're saying that last season, even with all of the sluggish skating, giveaways, wiffed shots, and lack of defense, you wanted Lang on the ice instead of Fil?

[Offsides 21]

Lang > Drake

Lang > Flip

At least right now

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

So you're saying that last season, even with all of the sluggish skating, giveaways, wiffed shots, and lack of defense, you wanted Lang on the ice instead of Fil?

yup.

And more importantly, so did Babcock.

because the sluggish skating, giveaways, wiffed shots and lack of defense has all been exaggerated to a ridiculous degree here.

Do you seriously think if he were the massive liability that most people here make him out to be, that Babcock would've had him on the ice at all, let alone 15+ minutes a game? especially in the playoffs?!

EDIT: for being so horrible defensively and all his giveaways, Lang was+12 during the regular season, and third overall in the postseason with a +5. (datsyuk was a +2 and Zetterberg +1)

Edited July 11, 2007 by haroldsnepsts

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Drake didn't replace Lang. Drake most likely joins Drapes and Malts on the grind line. We'll count on a player like Filpula to blossom and replace Langs production.

And it's not even a question of it being a gamble (will he or won't he replace Lang's production). If you waste money on giving a guy like Lang valuable minutes, you stunt the growth of a guy like Filpula by robbing him of those minutes.

I really think this will be a great season for Kenny to leave a little cap space free, set up a Filpula, Hudler, Grigorenko second line, and play a little sink or swim for the first quarter of the season. Kopecky can threaten their roster spot, and If someone really sinks, Kenny's got plenty of money to get a player BETTER than Lang to solidify the line. We'll have a great third line with Sammy, Cleary, and Franzen, and a decent grind line.

GET OUT OF MY HEAD!

Well said! I'm not sure about Kopecky threatening to take over anyone's roster spot though

[alowicious 0]

Apples to lazy oranges.......

I just laughed for about 2 minutes straight after I read that comment. Very nice.

Perhaps I am just over tired. Still a laugh is a laugh and it brightened my day.

Edited July 11, 2007 by alowicious

[210th Pick 0]

How is points per minute a truly accurate stat, particularly when dealing with a player not seeing much ice time? By that measure Hudler should be the star of the team and making more than Dats and Z combined.

I think points per minute is a good way of portraying how players took advantage of the time they were given when comparing two players that played a very different amount of minutes. Oh, and Hudler wouldn't be as great as you think. Some quick homework puts him at .033. Dats = .052, and Zets = .055! Hudler doesn't even beat Lang.

If you read my original post, you'll see I specified I was talking about last season. Potential doesn't mean jack. It's what they did on the ice.

I definitely wouldn't say "potential means jack". There are a lot of players in the league whose salaries are based in large part on their potential.

Why do you think Babcock gave Lang those minutes and not Flip? because Lang makes more money? No. Because he was a skilled veteran who gave the team a better chance to win.

That's exactly what this team needs to stop doing. I'm sick of watching old vets choke. This team has some kickass scouting, and I feel twilight players rob the youth of quality growth play. The play of Filpula and Hudler was exciting to watch. At times it was like watching star quality develop right in front of you. I really enjoyed that. Lang... not so much. In fact, I found him hard to watch a lot of the time, and I feel he was lucky to put up the stats he did.

And I hope that Holland picks up someone to improve that second line.

Look at our division this coming year. Unless someone improves a ton, the Preds took a big step back, and no one else took a big step forward. We've got breathing room. Why not use it, and make timely decisions based on what we really need, and who we should acquire for an optimal fit. Right now, I don't think our needs are as concrete as they will be half way through the season, and for the needs we THINK we have (second line vet), I don't think we have an optimal fit.

[theman19 47]

okay, no one is going to say it so i will. Drake isn't replacing Lang that's not even close.

Drake is replacing the loss of D-Mac

The line of malby-draper-mac was a force of nature on the ice and the last time this team had anything resembling a checking line. Now with Maltby-Draper-Drake We might have something here.

Drake isn't going to fight like mac, he's not going to stick up for people like mac

but he'll level more people than mac and will score about the same as a 2002-2003 mac.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I think points per minute is a good way of portraying how players took advantage of the time they were given when comparing two players that played a very different amount of minutes. Oh, and Hudler wouldn't be as great as you think. Some quick homework puts him at .033. Dats = .052, and Zets = .055! Hudler doesn't even beat Lang.

I think it's not useful in specifically that situation - comparing players with vastly different TOI, because it calls for some form of extrapolation that's not sound. The underlying assumption is that if you put them both out on the ice for the same number of minutes, then the guy with the higher points per minute is going to perform better. It ignores too many other variables.

I definitely wouldn't say "potential means jack". There are a lot of players in the league whose salaries are based in large part on their potential.

again, and I don't know how I can make this any clearer. I wasn't talking about salaries, or drafting, or signing free agents. I was responding to a question someone raised as to who was better last year. Flip or Lang. Potential is useful in a player overall and their career, but it doesn't win you games. Lang was better.

That's exactly what this team needs to stop doing. I'm sick of watching old vets choke. This team has some kickass scouting, and I feel twilight players rob the youth of quality growth play. The play of Filpula and Hudler was exciting to watch. At times it was like watching star quality develop right in front of you. I really enjoyed that. Lang... not so much. In fact, I found him hard to watch a lot of the time, and I feel he was lucky to put up the stats he did.

Players with more limited ice time benefit from the backup goalie effect. If they do something halfway decent during they're limited shifts, it looks amazing and people assume that given much more ice time, things will only get better.

That's not necessarily so (which gets back to why I dont find the points per time on ice comparisons particularly useful). A lot of times guys are more productive in limited roles because they can go like hell for those 10 minutes a game. Or they're just not developed enough as players to handle manning a 1st or 2nd line.

But with Lang out on the ice 16 minutes a game, you see it all. The good and the bad. Like with the starting goaltender who plays 60 times a year. the fans no what they'r getting, whereas when the backup plays he has lower expectations. He comes in and plays a few great games and people start thinking, why don't we dump the starter and give this guy the job?

I'm not saying flip and Hudler will never get there. But they weren't getting the ice time because Babcock didn't think they deserved it yet.

Look at our division this coming year. Unless someone improves a ton, the Preds took a big step back, and no one else took a big step forward. We've got breathing room. Why not use it, and make timely decisions based on what we really need, and who we should acquire for an optimal fit. Right now, I don't think our needs are as concrete as they will be half way through the season, and for the needs we THINK we have (second line vet), I don't think we have an optimal fit.

I'm not worried about the division. I'm thinking playoffs.

I wasn't saying I wanted Holland to make a move now, but hopefully by the trade deadline.

Edited July 11, 2007 by haroldsnepsts

[Guest DetroitIan]

Lang is probably the better NHLer. But who will have the better impact with our Red Wings? No doubt in my mind the answer is Dallas Drake. Great signing by Kenny.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

I can't really comment accurately, cause I don't know how "great" or how "bad" Dallas Drake is, never really paid much attention to his game in Phoenix/St. Louis, but the two seem to play a different game.

Both are fairly big, but Lang's more of a playmaker/scorer while Drake's game seems to revolve more around aggresive play and hits, while any scoring now is a bonus from him, given that he's close to hanging up the skates in a few seasons IMO.

[Elshupacabra 0]

From what i've seen of Drake recently (mostly YouTube videos) It seems that he can skate pretty fast and also throws big hits once in a while. El linko