2007 Green Bay Packers Thread

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Just 4 days away from the preseason opener against the Steelers. I don't see great things from this team just yet, but I still think they are capable of putting up an 8-8 season at best. Unfortunately, I still see them as being 1-2 years out from being a force.

Go Pack, and lets hope for a better than expected season.

Discuss.......

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Edited December 19, 2007 by Never Forget Mac #25

[timothy1997 0]

this is the year that the pack finish 3rd or 4th with the Vikes....meaning....THE LIONS WILL FINISH 2ND...too bad that a 6-10 or 7-9 record would be worthy enough for 2nd place in this divison.

[mannysBETTER3434 1]

Old Man River should retire, or at least say it's his last season. It's only fair for the GB fans, and Aaron Rogers.

[Kp-Wings 3]

Old Man River should retire, or at least say it's his last season. It's only fair for the GB fans, and Aaron Rogers.

He's been saying it's his last season for like 3 years now. And yet, it never is.

Dinosaur is pretty useless at this point, and has been for a long time. I don't know why he keeps coming back. I mean, does he really think the Packers have any chance at a SuperBowl or something with their current roster? I mean, if he does, he's really been knocked around too many times.

The Packers will still be better then the Lions though. Given the current situation, what with Kitna still QB, and an all around shotty roster, I'd be surprised to see them go 4-12.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Old Man River should retire, or at least say it's his last season. It's only fair for the GB fans, and Aaron Rogers.

Yeah, because last I checked the fans of Green Bay are really calling for him to retire. :looney:

Sidenote: The response to Kp-Wings applies to you as well.

He's been saying it's his last season for like 3 years now. And yet, it never is.

Dinosaur is pretty useless at this point, and has been for a long time. I don't know why he keeps coming back. I mean, does he really think the Packers have any chance at a SuperBowl or something with their current roster? I mean, if he does, he's really been knocked around too many times.

The Packers will still be better then the Lions though. Given the current situation, what with Kitna still QB, and an all around shotty roster, I'd be surprised to see them go 4-12.

It's pretty ignorant to state that Favre is useless, and to call him a dinosaur doesn't even make sense given that he's 37. FYI, the wonder that is Kitna will be 35 this year. The guy just comes off as being old because he hasn't missed a start since he started with the Packers in 1992.

Is Favre as good as he was 5-10 years ago, of course not. Is Favre still better than half the quarterbacks in the league? Of course he is. Making comments like he's useless at this point is the same garbage Vikings fans throw out all the time, and the reason they do it is because Favre continues to come to their home (especially the Lions) and beat them. Do you honestly believe any of the three starting QB's in the NFC North at this point are anywhere near Favre's calibre?

Now that being said, Green Bay isn't a contender this year, but to put some of that on Favre is stupid. Aside from Driver, name any offensive weapons on this team. Jennings isn't there just yet, we have a banged up mediocore running back coupled with a rookie, and our TE's are among the most embarrassing in the league. Pretty hard to blame Favre for the offensive slump these past few seasons. Keep in mind in 2004 when they had Walker and Driver, along with a healthy Green, Favre had 30 TD's, a 92.4 QB rating and 4088 yards. WIth the subtraction of key players comes the drop off in production, but keep in mind that he had 3,885 yards last year with only one real weapon to throw to. If he had the talent that the Lions had at the WR position he would put up monstrous numbers.

I could go on forever.

Sidenote: Do you even realize how many records he's going to break this year?

Edited August 16, 2007 by Never Forget Mac #25

[timothy1997 0]

Yeah, because last I checked the fans of Green Bay are really calling for him to retire. :looney:

Sidenote: The response to Kp-Wings applies to you as well.

It's pretty ignorant to state that Favre is useless, and to call him a dinosaur doesn't even make sense given that he's 37. FYI, the wonder that is Kitna will be 35 this year. The guy just comes off as being old because he hasn't missed a start since he started with the Packers in 1992.

Is Favre as good as he was 5-10 years ago, of course not. Is Favre still better than half the quarterbacks in the league? Of course he is. Making comments like he's useless at this point is the same garbage Vikings fans through out all the time, and the reason they do it is because Favre continues to come to their home (especially the Lions) and beat them. Do you honestly believe any of the three starting QB's in the NFC North at this point are anywhere near Favre's calibre?

Now that being said, Green Bay isn't a contender this year, but to put some of that on Favre is stupid. Aside from Driver, name any offensive weapons on this team. Jennings isn't there just yet, we have a banged up mediocore running back coupled with a rookie, and our TE's are among the most embarrassing in the league. Pretty hard to blame Favre for the offensive slump these past few seasons. Keep in mind in 2004 when they had Walker and Driver, along with a healthy Green, Favre had 30 TD's, a 92.4 QB rating and 4088 yards. WIth the subtraction of key players comes the drop off in production, but keep in mind that he had 3,885 yards last year with only one real weapon to throw to. If he had the talent that the Lions had at the WR position he would put up monstrous numbers.

I could go on forever.

Sidenote: Do you even realize how many records he's going to break this year?

I agree 100% NFM25. The reason why I can't stand Favre and want to retire is because he is just that damn good. I really think the Packers missed a golden opportunity when they passed up a chance to get Randy Moss. If you give Brett one big target on this team, your team automatically jumps from just a team hoping for 8-9 wins to being a favorite to win the divison.

By default, I see the Bears winning this divison but they also took a huge gamble when they got rid of Thomas Jones. The combo of Jones and Benson led them to the Super Bowl. Without that combo, they are clearly not the same team.

[Kp-Wings 3]

FYI, the wonder that is Kitna will be 35 this year.

Oh oh oh, you got me now!

Kitna is the most useless QB in the league, and I've said it numerous times. Just because Marinelli and the Lions organization is that stupid and believe he's a good player doesn't mean the actual fans of the team do. I think everyone thinks he sucks.

In fact, when was the last time the Lions organization actually cared about the fans? I can't remember, since they haven't made the playoffs since the Stone Age, and continue to let Matt Millen run this team into the ground with nothing but an office desk and a telephone.

Sorry to veer this so far off topic, but it's silly to compare Kitna and Farve, because Kitna has never been a QB in his entire life. Favre used to be good, but I just don't think he is anymore, so why does he keep playing? The Packers really don't have a legitimate shot at a SuperBowl. Kinda the same reason why Barry Sanders retired early, because he saw that the Lions were going nowhere.

Then again, I'm not a Packers fan, so maybe I don't know everything that comes into play of his decision. I just think he's far past his prime.

edited for grammar

Edited August 11, 2007 by Kp-Wings

[Packer487 3]

Just 4 days away from the preseason opener against the Steelers. I don't see great things from this team just yet, but I still think they are capable of putting up an 8-8 season at best. Unfortunately, I still see them as being 1-2 years out from being a force.

Go Pack, and lets hope for a better than expected season.

Discuss.......

It's hard to get a read on this team. They went 8-8 last year with an incredibly young team, and it's reasonable to expect improvement by most/all those young guys.

If someone steps up at Running Back, and someone steps up as the safety opposite Collins, they could end up having a really good year.

The defense should be solidly in the top 10 in the league. Kampman was 2nd in the league in sacks last year, Jenkins was a beast once he moved outside, KGB is a pass-rush specialist again, and they've got a great group of DTs to rotate including Corey Williams (who in a part-time role put up numbers comparable to Detroit's highest paid DT in the league).

The LBs should be stout. Hawk had 155 tackles as a rookie and started to flash his play-making ability toward the end of the season. Barnett's a happy man now that he's got his extension and Poppinga really improved throughout last season.

Then they've got one of the best CB duos in the league in Harris/Woodson.

I love the defense. The offensive line should be MUCH better than they were last year. They've got a full year in the system now and all those rookies from last year now have double-digit starts under their belts. If the line has improved, that should get out tight ends back into the mix since they won't have to stay in and block.

And I love the depth at WR as well. Failing to get Moss was a blow, but they've got enough good receivers that they're going to have to cut some solid players. Driver, Jennings and Jones are locks. Then you've got Martin, Holiday (who I love), Bodiford, Ferguson (cut him please), Robinson and Clowney fighting it out. Bodiford really helped himself during the scrimmage. He broke a couple of lonnng returns, and if he can do it in the preseason games, he might hook on a la Desmond Howard. I'm rooting for him. Mike Martz was really unhappy when the Lions had to cut him. I'm excited to have Jennings back healthy again as well.

I think the Bears are going to come back to the pack (see what I did there?) somewhat. They're going to miss Jones more than people think. Everyone hypes Benson and says the Packers have a major question mark in Morency, but Morency has the same number of 100 yard games and 2 less 50 yard games (despite the fact that Benson has carrying the ball double digit times 13 times in his career to 3 for Morency). Morency's YPC are better, he converts first downs and scores touchdowns at a higher rate. He's a much better receiver out of the backfield than Benson. He's got the same number of 20+ yard carries, despite carrying the ball 82 times less in his career, and his career long is higher. Plus he did it behind Houston's line and a very green line with the Packers.

The Lions will be improved, but that defense is going to be God-awful. I'm a huge NFL fan and I can't name their starting CBs. Bly was the only good one they had and they traded him. The OL isn't very good either. And none of those Denver running backs that have gone to other teams have really done anything (Portis has been the best, and he's been disappointing in Washington).

The Vikings are going to be horrid. I have no idea why they're considering going into a year with Tavares Jackson as their starting QB. He's God-awful.

Depending on injuries and the factors I mentioned above (RB, S) I could see the Packers going anywhere from 6-10 to 10-6. Their schedule looks fairly tough on paper. If they come through the first six games of the season at .500 or better, I think they're a playoff team. If they go 1-5 or something like they always seem to, they won't be able to overcome it.

And to whoever said Favre is washed up, Give him the supporting cast that most of the "top" QBs have and he's putting up numbers right with any of them. He's had to deal with the receiving corps and offensive line being revamped the past two seasons, and Ahman hasn't really been the model of health there either. He threw a lot of picks 2 years ago because they were always behind, usually by double-digits. It's hard to play QB when the other team knows you're passing on every play.

I'm just excited that football's back and I live in WI now so I get all the games!

-Tim

[mannysBETTER3434 1]

Yeah, because last I checked the fans of Green Bay are really calling for him to retire. :looney:

Sidenote: The response to Kp-Wings applies to you as well.

It's pretty ignorant to state that Favre is useless, and to call him a dinosaur doesn't even make sense given that he's 37. FYI, the wonder that is Kitna will be 35 this year. The guy just comes off as being old because he hasn't missed a start since he started with the Packers in 1992.

Is Favre as good as he was 5-10 years ago, of course not. Is Favre still better than half the quarterbacks in the league? Of course he is. Making comments like he's useless at this point is the same garbage Vikings fans through out all the time, and the reason they do it is because Favre continues to come to their home (especially the Lions) and beat them. Do you honestly believe any of the three starting QB's in the NFC North at this point are anywhere near Favre's calibre?

Now that being said, Green Bay isn't a contender this year, but to put some of that on Favre is stupid. Aside from Driver, name any offensive weapons on this team. Jennings isn't there just yet, we have a banged up mediocore running back coupled with a rookie, and our TE's are among the most embarrassing in the league. Pretty hard to blame Favre for the offensive slump these past few seasons. Keep in mind in 2004 when they had Walker and Driver, along with a healthy Green, Favre had 30 TD's, a 92.4 QB rating and 4088 yards. WIth the subtraction of key players comes the drop off in production, but keep in mind that he had 3,885 yards last year with only one real weapon to throw to. If he had the talent that the Lions had at the WR position he would put up monstrous numbers.

I could go on forever.

Sidenote: Do you even realize how many records he's going to break this year?

I never said Favre was bad. Favre is one of the greatest to ever play the game. The guy makes me mad because I just wish he would say "this is my last season" so when he plays his final game in GB they could celebrate the right way for him (that would be awesome to see). Aaron Rogers also deserves a shot...he was a 1st round pick after all. I just hate it when athletes keep playing when they shouldn't be (MJ, Lemiuex, and now Reggie Miller). I think Favre is getting to that point. How many pics did the throw last season? I know he didn't have much help, but you can't blame that many INT's on your surronding players.

[timothy1997 0]

It's hard to get a read on this team. They went 8-8 last year with an incredibly young team, and it's reasonable to expect improvement by most/all those young guys.

If someone steps up at Running Back, and someone steps up as the safety opposite Collins, they could end up having a really good year.

The defense should be solidly in the top 10 in the league. Kampman was 2nd in the league in sacks last year, Jenkins was a beast once he moved outside, KGB is a pass-rush specialist again, and they've got a great group of DTs to rotate including Corey Williams (who in a part-time role put up numbers comparable to Detroit's highest paid DT in the league).

The LBs should be stout. Hawk had 155 tackles as a rookie and started to flash his play-making ability toward the end of the season. Barnett's a happy man now that he's got his extension and Poppinga really improved throughout last season.

Then they've got one of the best CB duos in the league in Harris/Woodson.

I love the defense. The offensive line should be MUCH better than they were last year. They've got a full year in the system now and all those rookies from last year now have double-digit starts under their belts. If the line has improved, that should get out tight ends back into the mix since they won't have to stay in and block.

And I love the depth at WR as well. Failing to get Moss was a blow, but they've got enough good receivers that they're going to have to cut some solid players. Driver, Jennings and Jones are locks. Then you've got Martin, Holiday (who I love), Bodiford, Ferguson (cut him please), Robinson and Clowney fighting it out. Bodiford really helped himself during the scrimmage. He broke a couple of lonnng returns, and if he can do it in the preseason games, he might hook on a la Desmond Howard. I'm rooting for him. Mike Martz was really unhappy when the Lions had to cut him. I'm excited to have Jennings back healthy again as well.

I think the Bears are going to come back to the pack (see what I did there?) somewhat. They're going to miss Jones more than people think. Everyone hypes Benson and says the Packers have a major question mark in Morency, but Morency has the same number of 100 yard games and 2 less 50 yard games (despite the fact that Benson has carrying the ball double digit times 13 times in his career to 3 for Morency). Morency's YPC are better, he converts first downs and scores touchdowns at a higher rate. He's a much better receiver out of the backfield than Benson. He's got the same number of 20+ yard carries, despite carrying the ball 82 times less in his career, and his career long is higher. Plus he did it behind Houston's line and a very green line with the Packers.

The Lions will be improved, but that defense is going to be God-awful. I'm a huge NFL fan and I can't name their starting CBs. Bly was the only good one they had and they traded him. The OL isn't very good either. And none of those Denver running backs that have gone to other teams have really done anything (Portis has been the best, and he's been disappointing in Washington).

The Vikings are going to be horrid. I have no idea why they're considering going into a year with Tavares Jackson as their starting QB. He's God-awful.

Depending on injuries and the factors I mentioned above (RB, S) I could see the Packers going anywhere from 6-10 to 10-6. Their schedule looks fairly tough on paper. If they come through the first six games of the season at .500 or better, I think they're a playoff team. If they go 1-5 or something like they always seem to, they won't be able to overcome it.

And to whoever said Favre is washed up, Give him the supporting cast that most of the "top" QBs have and he's putting up numbers right with any of them. He's had to deal with the receiving corps and offensive line being revamped the past two seasons, and Ahman hasn't really been the model of health there either. He threw a lot of picks 2 years ago because they were always behind, usually by double-digits. It's hard to play QB when the other team knows you're passing on every play.

I'm just excited that football's back and I live in WI now so I get all the games!

-Tim

good post. I agree with most of your comments. As far as Bly being traded, Bly wanted out and his departure will hurt a ton. That being said. I still think the divison standings will look like this.

Chicago 10-6

Detroit 6-10

Green Bay 6-10

Minnesota 3-13

Lions still finish 2nd place despite having a bad record.

Chicago gets knocked out in the first round and the NFC champs get slaughtered in the Super Bowl.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

The Pack have a good chance at going 8-8, which makes them serious contenders for the division title. I see the Bears finishing no higher than 9-7, im predicting 8-8. This will be their post Super Bowl letdown year, as well as Cedric Benson I feel will turn out to be a bust. And of course, there's Grossman. Minnesota has Tavarus Jackson, who is garbage, so how ever many wins they get depends on when they replace him. I cant see them winning more than 4 or 5 games. If there was ever a year with the division title on a silver platter for the Lions, its this one.

Philly - L

@NYG - W

S.D. - L

@Minny- W

Chi - W

Wash - W

@ Den - L

@K.C. - L

Minny - W

Car - L

@ Det - L

@Dall - L

Oak - W

@StL - L

@Chi - L

Det - W

I have the Pack at 7-9

[Packer487 3]

I just hate it when athletes keep playing when they shouldn't be (MJ, Lemiuex, and now Reggie Miller). I think Favre is getting to that point. How many pics did the throw last season? I know he didn't have much help, but you can't blame that many INT's on your surronding players.

He had 18 picks last year. But when you take into account that he threw over 600 passes, his INT percentage actually ranked him smack in the middle of the pack. I've got another rant about how Favre gets s*** for his INTs but his numbers really aren't much different from the guys like Marino, Elway, and some of the other greats. But that's for another day.

Most of his picks the last couple years have come with the Packers trailing...usually by 2+ scores. The guy can still play the game....

-Tim

[Jwo 7]

As much of my hatred towards the Pack rats, You got to be realistic here.

Green bay and the Bears will be fighting for 1st place while the Vikings top 3rd and the Lions will take 4th.

[Guest DetroitIan]

As much of my hatred towards the Pack rats, You got to be realistic here.

Green bay and the Bears will be fighting for 1st place while the Vikings top 3rd and the Lions will take 4th.

I almost agree fully. But no way in hell the Packers contend for anything. I've always really liked Favre. But facts are facts. Favre is no where near what he used to be. Vikings wont do s***, the Lions wont do s***, and the Packers wont do s***. The Bears will dominate the division. There will be no "fight" between the Bears and Packers. It will be a domination. You might as well call it the Bears division with 3 duds. Hell, Favre looked like crap last year, and now he's a year older. I remember about 3 years ago, Favre was a very coveted fantasy player. But every year since then, Favre has been available on free agency all season long. No one wants him. And for good reason. He almost throws as many interceptions as he does touchdowns. Packers will beat on the Lions and Vikings all season long. But thats about it.

[Packer487 3]

I almost agree fully. But no way in hell the Packers contend for anything. I've always really liked Favre. But facts are facts. Favre is no where near what he used to be. Vikings wont do s***, the Lions wont do s***, and the Packers wont do s***. The Bears will dominate the division. There will be no "fight" between the Bears and Packers. It will be a domination. You might as well call it the Bears division with 3 duds. Hell, Favre looked like crap last year, and now he's a year older. I remember about 3 years ago, Favre was a very coveted fantasy player. But every year since then, Favre has been available on free agency all season long. No one wants him. And for good reason. He almost throws as many interceptions as he does touchdowns. Packers will beat on the Lions and Vikings all season long. But thats about it.

As the youngest team in the league, with three rookies on the offensive line getting 10+ starts, another first year starter at center, a new blocking scheme, and a new defensive coordinator they only missed the playoffs by a tiebreaker and currently hold the longest winning streak in the NFC (4 games).

It's reasonable to expect improvement in the offseason by the young players, including those offensive linemen. Which will, in turn, allow them to actually let TEs run patterns again (and should alleviate a lot of the problems they had in the red zone last year, which is what really held that team back).

Once they figured out what they were doing on defense (I think they had 6-7 new defensive starters last year as well) they actually got pretty good by the end of the season, and I expect that they'll be solidly in the top 10 on defense this year (maybe top 5 if they can get improved play at the safety position).

If the offensive line has improved as much as I expect they have, there's no reason that this team can't contend for the division title (remember, they whupped the hell out of Chicago in the last game last season). Chicago's still undoubtedly the favorite, but the Packers should be right in the hunt for the division crown, and failing that, the wild card.

People who say Favre is washed up are only reading the stat sheet. 2 years ago he threw an assload of picks, but nobody talks about how he had just eight of them 7 games into the 2005 season. Then everyone got hurt, they were playing from behind all the time, and he started chucking em up trying to make a play. He could've played conservatively and made his stats look better, but that's not who he is. And I'm fine with that.

-Tim

[Guest DetroitIan]

(remember, they whupped the hell out of Chicago in the last game last season).

Yeah, only because the Bears had the division clinched well before that game against the Packers. Hell, the Bears even pulled some of their starters for that game. Thats win means nothing to me. Like I've said before, I really like Favre. But in no way is he the player he once was. And of course we're gonna look at stats. I mean, I know stats arent everything. But like I said, 3 years ago no way in hell you could find Favre on free agency in fantasy football. Now, absolutely no one wants him. The Packers are too inexperienced overall. And without Driver, they wouldnt even have a shot at the wildcard. I honestly do think they have a legit shot at the wildcard. But honestly, if you actually think they are taking the division title, you may be delusional. Or hometown biased. Cause there's no way in hell they get more wins than the Bears. Not a chance. Playoff bound? Possibly. Division winner? No way in hell. And im not being a hater or anything. Im just being real about things.

Edited August 12, 2007 by DetroitIan

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Agreed, GB beating Chicago at the end of last year means absolutely nothing. I think GB does have a decent chance at the division, but thats based off the fact i think the Bears will have an off year. So its really just a knock on them rather than an endorsement for the Packers.

The only team i feel has zero chance for the division is Minnesota.

[Kp-Wings 3]

The only team i feel has zero chance for the division is Minnesota.

You're kidding right? You actually think the Lions will compete for the division this year?

[Lou_Siffer 1]

You're kidding right? You actually think the Lions will compete for the division this year?

Im saying its possible. Its all reliant on the secondary, which on paper is absolutely pathetic...but if Bullocks can be good and the corner position can be adequate as we're led to believe under the Tampa 2, i dont see why not. Remember what division we're talking about here, if im picking the Bears to have a bad letdown year at 8-8, why cant the Lions be in contention under my scenario?

[Kp-Wings 3]

Im saying its possible. Its all reliant on the secondary, which on paper is absolutely pathetic...but if Bullocks can be good and the corner position can be adequate as we're led to believe under the Tampa 2, i dont see why not. Remember what division we're talking about here, if im picking the Bears to have a bad letdown year at 8-8, why cant the Lions be in contention under my scenario?

I'm aware of how bad the division is, but when has that actually made a difference? I mean, the division is bad every year.

It's not like the Lions have a whole lot of competition here, so I guess anything is possible, but if history is any indication of how things usually go, this year will be the same. At best, I expect the Lions to go 5-11.

[Packer487 3]

Yeah, only because the Bears had the division clinched well before that game against the Packers. Hell, the Bears even pulled some of their starters for that game. Thats win means nothing to me. Like I've said before, I really like Favre. But in no way is he the player he once was. And of course we're gonna look at stats. I mean, I know stats arent everything. But like I said, 3 years ago no way in hell you could find Favre on free agency in fantasy football. Now, absolutely no one wants him. The Packers are too inexperienced overall. And without Driver, they wouldnt even have a shot at the wildcard. I honestly do think they have a legit shot at the wildcard. But honestly, if you actually think they are taking the division title, you may be delusional. Or hometown biased. Cause there's no way in hell they get more wins than the Bears. Not a chance. Playoff bound? Possibly. Division winner? No way in hell. And im not being a hater or anything. Im just being real about things.

The Bears didn't pull any of their starters til after they started getting it in the pooper. I don't buy that that team didn't get up for a game against their big rival. Having the division clinched didn't make Rex Grossman complete as many passes to the Packers as he did to his own team. The first game of the season, the Bears backups would've killed GB anyway. It was an embarrassment. The tide swung the other way by the end of the season. Does that mean I think that GB was 20 points better than Chicago or whatever they won by? No. But they belonged on the same field with the Bears and had they gotten in the playoffs on that tiebreaker, they would've challenged anybody in the conference.

Stats aren't everything and depending on fantasy football to rate a player is pretty much retarded. I mean, Jon Kitna is probably going to be a pretty darn good fantasy QB this year. But we all know he kind of blows. The Packers biggest problem last year was that they sucked in the red zone. The offensive line improves, that allows the TEs to start working the middle of the field again and maybe Bubba Franks can get back to doing what he used to do. Add in what I think will be a very nice red-zone threat in James Jones, and they should improve in that area.

The reason Favre's stats are down is largely because his supporting cast has been down the past few years. Put him on Indy or Cincy and he's putting up huge numbers. Put him on Chicago and they probably win the Super Bowl last year.

I'm not saying GB will win more games than Chicago. I'm saying it's possible. And it is. Chicago isn't that good. They weren't last year, and dumping Jones in favor of Benson is going to hurt them. GB needs a lot of things to go their way to pass Chicago, but it's within the realm of possibility. A look at the standings from year to year in the NFL will tell you that.

Our defense is right in the ballpark with theirs now. Favre's a helluva lot better than Grossman. Neither team has a proven running back, but Morency's numbers stack up very nicely next to Benson's. Driver's better than any receiver they've got. Chicago has the better tight ends. And I'll have to see if/how much GB's line has improved to comment on that.

GB may not be better than Chicago this year, but the gap has closed. There's so much that goes into a team's finishing position in the league...I said earlier that depending on injuries, how the teams on their schedule end up being, the development (or lack thereof) of key youngsters, general luck, the Packers could be anywhere from 6-10 to 10-6.

There's a lot of good young talent on that team though. It's just a matter of how quick they start playing up to their potential.

-Tim

[timothy1997 0]

The lions will have 6 to 9 wins this year. 9 wins are enough to win a divison every now and then so yea, the lions have a shot to win the divison this year. Do i think it will happen?? NO! Defense wins divison and hence the Bears will win the divison.

[puckhog419 0]

i am not a packers fan or a big fan of any football team really. i just watch it when it is on. But i do like to watch james jones play. give the kid a few games and he will become a weapon. maybe that is just coming from a fan of the Jones because i watched him play at SJSU but he is a good player

[Guest jaytan]

I'd take two wins over Green Bay this season even if it kept us from getting the No. 1 pick. I hate the Packers! If it weren't for them, the Lions might have actually won more than one playoff game in my life (history?).