Lids and Zetts questionable for thursdays game ?

[Kp-Wings 3]

And seriously KP, get a grip and relax, your outbursts and inability to take things in stride makes reading these threads almost unbearable. You have your point and mock other people but you can't take it right back, either do so or cut it out on your end.

If you don't like it, then don't read the topic.

[Heaton 1]

If you don't like it, then don't read the topic.

I shouldn't have to pick and choose.

[Kp-Wings 3]

I shouldn't have to pick and choose.

Considering eva's first reply to mine, you can't accuse only me of having an outburst.

Edited October 17, 2007 by Kp-Wings

[Heaton 1]

Considering eva's first reply to mine, you can't accuse only me of having an outburst.

No, but you seem generally shocked when people mock your opinions yet you have no problems doing so back to them before they even say anything. You guys have your own ideas and perceptions that are just as wrong as some of the people on the opposite sides of the spectrum.

[LEBDA22 0]

so in tomorrow nights game vs sharx , will downey get more ice time? maybe if pavel gets run ?? sharks are not going to go easy on the wings .matter of fact no team is ever going to let down when they play the wings . we need more team toughness . downey and drake are the beginning , but they dont get enough ice time. come on babs run what ya brung ! run all 4 lines !!

Edited October 17, 2007 by LEBDA22

[lets go pavel 2]

man, if this thread had an enforcer then you guys wouldn't be taking (verbal) runs at each other!

seriously, i'm not sure you're really disagreeing ... all eva is saying is that downey isn't going to stop people from taking liberties with our players because he doesn't play enough, which seems to be the case - not that he couldn't if he played more, or even that he shouldn't play more ...

i think the other reality here is that downey (as well as drake) is smaller than most of the ducks anyway, and probably isn't going to intimidate them at all, they have plenty of folks willing to drop the gloves

[Flip-check 6]

seriously, i'm not sure you're really disagreeing ... all eva is saying is that downey isn't going to stop people from taking liberties with our players because he doesn't play enough, which seems to be the case - not that he couldn't if he played more, or even that he shouldn't play more ...

That's Kp's point.

I don't think Downey would really do all that much (and I know that Kp-Wings isn't saying he -would-), but it's also frustrating to me when for instance, in that Kings game one of the only two Red Wings I remember laying the body included him.

The other? Kronwall. Everything else is just pee-wee checks and I'm just so sick of how soft this team's become - I know, I know, the broken record shout at the heavens for half of the boards.

The ridiculously sad thing is we're probably going to have another regular season just like last. No balls-out play, no standing up for eachother, and we'll maybe only step it up in the playoffs. And we'll probably end up with Datsyuk or Zetterberg getting targeted mid-season, crosschecked in the back, whatever, and what next?

Nothing. Maybe at worst a face-wash, some "mean words" during the next faceoff, and maybe a half-hearted push-and-shove match a couple shifts afterward if the guys feel really vindictive.

[Viperar 16]

*grabs popcorn*

[eva unit zero 271]

Considering eva's first reply to mine, you can't accuse only me of having an outburst.

Given that you opened with:

You know, if you want to be a dick,

I think my response is justified.

[Mors 201]

I really don't see the potential for Downey to do any worse than Ellis or Kopecky has so far, at least during the 2 minutes that Downey played last game I could find him on the ice...'cause he was the only one out there actually trying to put the body on.

Kopecky is a 6'3 ******, maybe if he feigns injury he'll have a valid excuse for playing like he's scared.

[Elshupacabra 0]

damn it!!!!!!!!

[omnipotent_hudler 0]

It's obviously apparent you're one of the many "anti-enforcers" on these forums,

god, just shut up already. There are no anti-enforcers. They don't ******* exist. What there are is anti- lack of skill players that can't do anything but fight.

It's kind of amusing to watch you argue against an invisible group of people, though.

If you don't like it, then don't read the topic.

This is a fantastic idea. Let's create a thread where all the Downey stroking can go, that way we don't have to see it anymore.

[russianswede919293 95]

With Z, Franzenstein and Sammy out they would need to call up a forward to have 12 on thursday...

[puckloo39 5,686]

Any word on game day decision on Lids and Hank? Joe Thornton's going to feast on WIngs tonight, with no Lids or Mule out there.

[yankeebaddabing 0]

Well at least it's not a long time injury or anything serious, I bet Nicky will play, Z will probably sit one out.

No biggey really...

Also for the love of GOD stop arguing about downey's ice time already, if you were the coach then you would be able to make the calls, until then sit back, shut up and support your team...

I mean arguing on the internet is like winning the special olympics, even if you win your still Retarded

[Opie 308]

Aaron Downey gets 2 shifts and 3 minutes a game because that is all he has ever showed he is capable of getting.

Show me a team that he has played on in the NHL where that team thought he was good enough to be a regular contributor.

I will save you the time, you can't.

For those of you who want Downey out there because he some how earned it over Ellis or Kopecky, please tell me or show what he has done to do so.

Ellis and Kopecky are young and the team needs to figure out if they can hack it in the bigs. If not then they will ship them off.

All of you that for some reason thought that Downey would magically stop people from cheap shotting, bullying, or hurting the wings players were not listening when people like Eva and myself said it wouldn't.

Because he simply will not get the ice time of a Tootoo or Hartnell. Because he is not that good of a hockey player. Is he good enough to make a roster, sure, good enough to contribute on a night in night out basis, NO, a resounding NO!!!!

Some how those of you who thought he would make a difference had the opinion that he was going to show up in Detroit and have a career year, he may but you have to understand a career year for Downey would be 44 games, 5 points.

You all overreacted when Eva, myself or others said he wasn't going to make a difference, we got called "anti-fighters" because we said Downey would not make an impact. And when we defended ourselves and said we would take an enforcer like Shanny or others you didn't read it or chose to ignore it.

Some on here even compared Downey to Kocur or Probert.

The man is a career 13th forward and as soon as the forwards get healthy he will end up in the press box.

Facts are facts, the man doesn't contribute to a hockey team night in and night out. He sees limited minutes, not because the world other than some LGW posters have it out for him, but because he just isn't that good. Is he better than me, of course he is that is not what I am saying.

Ellis and Kopecky are trying out to make the team, not only now, but for the future, they have an upside. Downey is Downey and always be Downey. A 13th forward. But I am sure I will be labeled anti-enforcer, anti fighter for saying all of this.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Aaron Downey gets 2 shifts and 3 minutes a game because that is all he has ever showed he is capable of getting.

Show me a team that he has played on in the NHL where that team thought he was good enough to be a regular contributor.

I will save you the time, you can't.

For those of you who want Downey out there because he some how earned it over Ellis or Kopecky, please tell me or show what he has done to do so.

Ellis and Kopecky are young and the team needs to figure out if they can hack it in the bigs. If not then they will ship them off.

All of you that for some reason thought that Downey would magically stop people from cheap shotting, bullying, or hurting the wings players were not listening when people like Eva and myself said it wouldn't.

Because he simply will not get the ice time of a Tootoo or Hartnell. Because he is not that good of a hockey player. Is he good enough to make a roster, sure, good enough to contribute on a night in night out basis, NO, a resounding NO!!!!

Some how those of you who thought he would make a difference had the opinion that he was going to show up in Detroit and have a career year, he may but you have to understand a career year for Downey would be 44 games, 5 points.

You all overreacted when Eva, myself or others said he wasn't going to make a difference, we got called "anti-fighters" because we said Downey would not make an impact. And when we defended ourselves and said we would take an enforcer like Shanny or others you didn't read it or chose to ignore it.

Some on here even compared Downey to Kocur or Probert.

The man is a career 13th forward and as soon as the forwards get healthy he will end up in the press box.

Facts are facts, the man doesn't contribute to a hockey team night in and night out. He sees limited minutes, not because the world other than some LGW posters have it out for him, but because he just isn't that good. Is he better than me, of course he is that is not what I am saying.

Ellis and Kopecky are trying out to make the team, not only now, but for the future, they have an upside. Downey is Downey and always be Downey. A 13th forward. But I am sure I will be labeled anti-enforcer, anti fighter for saying all of this.

Following that philosophy, only a few enforcers in history should have ever existed, namely those that can score. I got news for you, Joey Kocur wasn't known as the most talented hockey player in the world either. How impressive are his career stats? If you ran the NHL, he would never have played. Enforcers have never received many minutes and have never had that much talent outside of fighting. However, they have always existed. So I guess you know more than any other GM in NHL history. If you only want to have enforcers that can score, then that eliminates just about everyone. What that amounts to is an anti-fighting outlook towards hockey. Just remember this, having an enforcer doesn't eliminate injuries, it deters it. Once again, I'll point out that teams are more willing to run at our players than any other team, because it's easy to bully those who won't do anything about it. With Downey around, we'll have a little more deterrence. He wouldn't have been my 1st choice for an enforcer either, but it's better than nothing.

[OsGOD 3]

Tis a shame...

but if Ozzie is in fact starting...

GO OZZIE

GO ROENICK

oh boy I am excited!

[Opie 308]

There is a world of difference between Joey Kocur and Aaron Downey and the sooner you accept that the less of a migraine you will get from reading these threads.

If you notice not only did I compare Downey to Shanny but also I compared him to Tootoo and Hartnell.

They are not exactly lamp lighters, but they can play D and their sole job is not fighting.

I also compared him to Kocur who was able to play D.

I am not an NHL coach nor do I run the NHL, however the people who have coached Downey and ran his teams have not played him much at all. I am making an assumption here but I would have to guess the reason he did play was either an injury or to give a guy some rest.

Downey will not log key minutes on this team, he simply is not talented enough.

Again I go back to what I said in my last post you are reading what you want from my posts. You saw that I wrote a comparison to Shanny which bunch your Vicky draws all up and you went off about if I ran the NHL which makes no sense. Also I don't know more than any GM in NHL history I am going by what people have done with Downey.

Unlike yourself and many others I don't look at players as a group, Downey is an enforcer, we need an enforcer, put him on the ice now.

I look at it as he has not done anything in his past, and very rarely gets on the ice.

Downey is a deterrent to whom, who in the NHL right now is looking at the wings saying, "Man if Downey is in the line up I better be on my best behavior." Again let me save you some time, NO ONE!!!!!!!

Just like your opinion is you want an enforcer any enforcer, mine is that I want an enforcer to do more than goon it up.

People want to know why Downey is not getting more ice time. I answered that question.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

There is a world of difference between Joey Kocur and Aaron Downey and the sooner you accept that the less of a migraine you will get from reading these threads.

If you notice not only did I compare Downey to Shanny but also I compared him to Tootoo and Hartnell.

They are not exactly lamp lighters, but they can play D and their sole job is not fighting.

I also compared him to Kocur who was able to play D.

I am not an NHL coach nor do I run the NHL, however the people who have coached Downey and ran his teams have not played him much at all. I am making an assumption here but I would have to guess the reason he did play was either an injury or to give a guy some rest.

Downey will not log key minutes on this team, he simply is not talented enough.

Again I go back to what I said in my last post you are reading what you want from my posts. You saw that I wrote a comparison to Shanny which bunch your Vicky draws all up and you went off about if I ran the NHL which makes no sense. Also I don't know more than any GM in NHL history I am going by what people have done with Downey.

Unlike yourself and many others I don't look at players as a group, Downey is an enforcer, we need an enforcer, put him on the ice now.

I look at it as he has not done anything in his past, and very rarely gets on the ice.

Downey is a deterrent to whom, who in the NHL right now is looking at the wings saying, "Man if Downey is in the line up I better be on my best behavior." Again let me save you some time, NO ONE!!!!!!!

Just like your opinion is you want an enforcer any enforcer, mine is that I want an enforcer to do more than goon it up.

People want to know why Downey is not getting more ice time. I answered that question.

Well, if you want an enforcer that can do more than goon it up, then who do you suggest? How many current enforcers are there that can do more than goon it up? I can't name very many. So as I was saying, by your philosophy, we'll never have nor need an enforcer. Trust me, Downey is no less talented than any other enforcer in the league.

[Opie 308]

OK then tell me oh wise hockey man,

Why have none of the teams he has played on played him more than half of the season?

Well there was that one season where he did play 43 games.

Anaheim has a few enforcers that do more than goon it up, Hartnell can do more than good it up.

See about a month ago, I said there are no enforcers out there that I would want on this team due to either contract i$$ues, or lack of talent.

That was seen as me being Anit-fighting.

I would love to have Bob Probert on this team, he is not available, I would love to have Shanny in his prime, not available, Mac in his prime, not available, Joe Thornton of a couple of years ago, not available, get my point.

You and others on here though see a guy who can and does fight and go ape s*** over it, however no one mentions that Drake has fought 3 times in 6 games.

He may not be the next Stone Cold Steve Austin, but he is out there, plays very good defense, can chip in a few goals and a bunch of points.

This team is struggling to find consistent secondary scoring, yet some of you (not you GMR) are saying Sammy should be given the boot and Downey should be playing, having an enforcer to simply say the wings have one, does nothing to help. If this team had 3 lines that went out there night in and night out and got scoring and defense, then fine put a goon on the fourth line, hell make an all goon line if you want. But the fact is this is a one line team. And until they can score with regularity with other lines, why on earth should Babcock take ice time away from a guy who can score, and give it to Downey who has shown in his career (oh he is 33 btw) that he can not be an every day contributor even as an enforcer.

Edit: I am not saying this about all enforcers, again my thoughts an opinions in here are about Aaron Downey and his abilities to play. And if you think Downey is as talented than all of the other enforcers in the league you need to have your eyes checked. Oh but wait you obviously know more than the GM's and coaches he played for in the past. But we all already knew that, that is why every team in the league is beating down your door.

Edited October 18, 2007 by Opie

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

OK then tell me oh wise hockey man,

Why have none of the teams he has played on played him more than half of the season?

Well there was that one season where he did play 43 games.

Anaheim has a few enforcers that do more than goon it up, Hartnell can do more than good it up.

See about a month ago, I said there are no enforcers out there that I would want on this team due to either contract i$$ues, or lack of talent.

That was seen as me being Anit-fighting.

I would love to have Bob Probert on this team, he is not available, I would love to have Shanny in his prime, not available, Mac in his prime, not available, Joe Thornton of a couple of years ago, not available, get my point.

You and others on here though see a guy who can and does fight and go ape s*** over it, however no one mentions that Drake has fought 3 times in 6 games.

He may not be the next Stone Cold Steve Austin, but he is out there, plays very good defense, can chip in a few goals and a bunch of points.

This team is struggling to find consistent secondary scoring, yet some of you (not you GMR) are saying Sammy should be given the boot and Downey should be playing, having an enforcer to simply say the wings have one, does nothing to help. If this team had 3 lines that went out there night in and night out and got scoring and defense, then fine put a goon on the fourth line, hell make an all goon line if you want. But the fact is this is a one line team. And until they can score with regularity with other lines, why on earth should Babcock take ice time away from a guy who can score, and give it to Downey who has shown in his career (oh he is 33 btw) that he can not be an every day contributor even as an enforcer.

Downey is a good fighter, but he's been injured often, besides he's not really a heavyweight enforcer. That is why other teams haven't played him much, because they have their own heavyweights. However, I and many other posters here want him on this team because we've been fed up with having a ***** team for too long. Nobody's saying Downey is a great enforcer, but he's better than nothing, and better than what else was out there. Also, Hartnell is not an enforcer, and neither is Joe Thornton. Yes, I'd love to have those players here because they can do more than fight, but that is a different story. With our roster being as weak as it is now, why not play Downey? I agree that we lack scoring, but replacing Kopecky for Downey is not going to hurt us in that department. We have plenty of roster spots right now that are not producing, so a change needs to be made. Who knows, maybe it'll light a fire under those younger players, though I doubt it. There's nothing wrong with being copycats in saying that because everyone has a fighter, we need one too.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Oh my f-ing god. Has this become a Downey thread as well?

It seriously is spreading like an infection.

[redwing711 0]

god, just shut up already. There are no anti-enforcers. They don't ******* exist. What there are is anti- lack of skill players that can't do anything but fight.

Thank you!!!

I agree we want Datsyuk and Zetterberg healthy, but how much are we willing to sacrifice to have that. I suppose we could just surround them with a bunch of 6'7" 300lb thugs that can barely stand on skates much less skate in them and just watch the string of goals that are made by the opposing team. How does that help? Then we'll have people begging for Datsyuk and Zetterberg to be gone because we still can't win even when they have all the protection in the world.

I'm all for having an enforcer if you can find one whose lack of skills won't keep us out of the playoffs. Do we really want to have an enforcer just to say we have one if the cost of that enforcer is finishing last in the league year after year.

To clarify, before half the board starts calling me a Downey basher. I'm not saying Downey would cause us to finish dead last. I'm demonstrating ominipotent_hudler's point that we aren't anti-enforcers, but we do want skilled enforcers.

[arnoldbuck 0]

Not sure on his status, but god do I hope he is ready to light-up Luongo next week. I need Detroit to hammer the nucks this year.