A New Twist

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=224489&hubname=nhl

It seems as though Marc Crawford may have ordered the Canucks to go after Moore. This would not surprise me at all, Marc Crawford is an ******* and always has been. This would certainly make things a bit easier for Bertuzzi if Crawford is found guilty in this thing.

[Guest DetroitIan]

It wouldn't surprise me either. This sounds just like something Crawford would do. The guy has no class whatsoever. And if it's true, Crawford should get into some sort trouble. Especially if Bert was just following orders.

[Izzy24 44]

It wouldn't surprise me either. This sounds just like something Crawford would do. The guy has no class whatsoever. And if it's true, Crawford should get into some sort trouble. Especially if Bert was just following orders.

Um, he wasn't in the military, he was on a hockey team. That defense won't work anyway, see Adolf Eichmann.

[gcom007 1,465]

Certainly wouldn't be shocking at all. He's pretty intense to say the least. I don't want to minimize what Bertuzzi did, but I think it was a lot flukier than most have made it out to be. The whole pileup couldn't have helped either. It's interesting b/c Moore was running from the fight just as a guy named Claude Lemieux once tried to do when Darren McCarty just pummeled him. It certainly would've qualified as a pre-meditated assault as well. If Lemiuex had suffered more damage, would it have been perceived as gloriously as it is now even given Lemieux's past? Granted, it wasn't a sucker punch from behind but it's not like Bertuzzi came out of nowhere...he was trying to get his attention. If Moore hadn't have had such serious injuries (which no one can really think Bertuzzi intended to inflict) would it be as big of an issue? Where's the line then? Again, not minimizing, just tossing it out there.

Bottom line revolves around the lack of respect though. Wonder if it'll ever be back. How bad will it have to get before people wake up? Will someone have to die or become completely paralyzed before players get the picture?

[Guest DetroitIan]

Um, he wasn't in the military, he was on a hockey team. That defense won't work anyway, see Adolf Eichmann.

Um, I didn't say Bertuzzi did no wrong. Im just saying, if Crawford was the one who gave the order, he should absolutely be punished as well. See Osama Bin Laden.

[gcom007 1,465]

Um, I didn't say Bertuzzi did no wrong. Im just saying, if Crawford was the one who gave the order, he should absolutely be punished as well. See Osama Bin Laden.

Am I the only one who thinks the league ought to own up as well? While it's the players that have gotten out of hand, the league hasn't done enough to counter it. Some serious suspensions would probably whip some people into shape and knock some sense into people. If more people start losings seasons or more and a lot more money, maybe they'll think before they drill someone's head into the boards or run a guy with blatant attempt to injure.

[akustyk 84]

didn't I tell you before, it's been Crawford who holds a lot of responsibility for Moore incident?

guys like him, Keenan, Ruff and obviously anyone employed by Bobby Clarke are all prone to unleashing goonery and doing crap. and I'm all for the league holding them accountable for crap they may initiate. and why not?

[auxlepli 17]

Am I the only one who thinks the league ought to own up as well? While it's the players that have gotten out of hand, the league hasn't done enough to counter it. Some serious suspensions would probably whip some people into shape and knock some sense into people. If more people start losings seasons or more and a lot more money, maybe they'll think before they drill someone's head into the boards or run a guy with blatant attempt to injure.

That's a very good point, but I never even considered the League maybe partly to blame for the Bertuzzi, Moore incident. Anyway I think harsher penalties are in order. This recent rash of two-game suspensions is far too lenient in my opinion. From what I've seen in Internet polls on ESPN, The Hockey News and others, I'm in the majority on this too.

Edited December 6, 2007 by auxlepli

[toby91_ca 620]

The thing is, most coaches in the league would have given the same orders.....well maybe not anymore, but there was a time when that statement would have held pretty true.

[Opie 308]

That's a very good point, but I never even considered the League maybe partly to blame for the Bertuzzi, Moore incident. Anyway I think harsher penalties are in order. This recent rash of two-game suspensions is far too lenient in my opinion. From what I've seen in Internet polls on ESPN, The Hockey News and others, I'm in the majority on this too.

OR

THEY COULD GET RID OF THE STUPID F*@$ING INSTIGATOR RULE!

Sorry to yell but this is really starting to get on my nerves. While the end result of Bert's actions were way worse (pending the return of Bergeron) his hits were no worse than Downie, Boulerice, Cote, Hartnell.

The funny thing is the worst hit as far as injuries go, the jones hit was the closest to a clean hit. He should have let up, or used a jab check on Bergeron, but he was to aggressive and had a guy back to. The rest were down right dirty and done with intent to injure.

Yet, they pay little to no consequences? Why because Bettman is a tool, Lucic was out of the line up, and because if Murray (or Chara) retaliates and defends his teammate and tries to take on Hartnell, A- he would get smoked, B- he would be gone for 17 minutes.

I think the league can leave the extra two for being a third man in, but get rid of the 10 minute misconduct for instigator.

Because if you ask me the guy who made the dirty play started everything he should be the one to get the instigator.

But what do I know I just like to watch fast paced hockey and a nice fight once and a while. I like clean hockey with hard hits, not dirty hockey with cheap hits.

[toby91_ca 620]

OR

THEY COULD GET RID OF THE STUPID F*@$ING INSTIGATOR RULE!

Sorry to yell but this is really starting to get on my nerves. While the end result of Bert's actions were way worse (pending the return of Bergeron) his hits were no worse than Downie, Boulerice, Cote, Hartnell.

The funny thing is the worst hit as far as injuries go, the jones hit was the closest to a clean hit. He should have let up, or used a jab check on Bergeron, but he was to aggressive and had a guy back to. The rest were down right dirty and done with intent to injure.

Yet, they pay little to no consequences? Why because Bettman is a tool, Lucic was out of the line up, and because if Murray (or Chara) retaliates and defends his teammate and tries to take on Hartnell, A- he would get smoked, B- he would be gone for 17 minutes.

I think the league can leave the extra two for being a third man in, but get rid of the 10 minute misconduct for instigator.

Because if you ask me the guy who made the dirty play started everything he should be the one to get the instigator.

But what do I know I just like to watch fast paced hockey and a nice fight once and a while. I like clean hockey with hard hits, not dirty hockey with cheap hits.

Why do we all think Bettman is so powerful and all controlling of the every rule in the game. If he wants to change a rule, all he has to do is snap his fingers and it's done....

[Opie 308]

I don't think he has bewitched powers but he is the Commish, just like Bush is the Pres.

Not everything is completely under their control but they put the people in place to do these jobs, they are the ones who are "the leader" and take the responsibility. The people underneath them listen to and follow their initiatives.

If Bettman sat down with the PA and the BOG and said "Hey we need to do something about these dirty hits, who is in favor of voting out my the instigator rule." that the BOG and PA would say, nah that has nothing to do with it.

He is the Commissioner, he gets the credit for good stuff that happens, he gets s*** on for the dumb s*** that happens. Nature of the beast.

[stevkrause 1,247]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=224489&hubname=nhl

It seems as though Marc Crawford may have ordered the Canucks to go after Moore. This would not surprise me at all, Marc Crawford is an ******* and always has been. This would certainly make things a bit easier for Bertuzzi if Crawford is found guilty in this thing.

hey, this is completely unrelated - but you need to update your avatar -

[JayUp88 1]

Maybe its just me but all i can think of is the Hawks coach Reilly telling his guys to take out the one kid from the Mighty Ducks movie.

[Wildwings44 5]

So is was Crawford "who ordered the code red." I'll be surprised if anyone can handle this truth.

[Opie 308]

Son, we live in a world that has boards, and those boards have to be guarded by men with gloves and sticks. Whose gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? Crawford has a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Moore, and you curse the Canucks. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what Crawford knows. That Moore's injury, while tragic, probably saved lives. And Crawford's existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want Crawford on those boards, you need him on those boards. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. Crawford has neither the time nor the inclination to explain himself to a man who rises and sleeps under the enjoyment of the very game that he provides, and then questions the manner in which he provides it. Crawford would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, He suggests you pick up a stick, and stand a post. Either way, Crawford doesn't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

[irishtemper14+25 11]

doesnt make a difference to me, im sure a coach would do that...but its still bertuzzis fault

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Wow. I'm as shocked to hear this as I was when I found out Niedermayer is coming back.

[Legionnaire11 0]

So you have an idiot coach who is encouraging players who don't need any encouragement.

And an idiot player who crossed the line, perhaps because of the encouragement.

Two idiots, one huge mess.

======================

As for the topic of coaches doing stuff like this. It's not along the lines of Crawford saying "Moore must pay"... but before the first game of the Wings-Preds series in '04, Dave Lewis wrote some numbers on a board in the Wings locker room (Sullivan, Zidlicky, Walker, maybe legwand and Timonen) and a note that said "Hit These Players"...

Definitely not an ordered attack. Just interesting to see coaches doing stuff like that when the Players really shouldn't need any special instructions. They wings knew to get physical with the opponents skilled players, and the canucks knew that they had to pay back Moore.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

So you have an idiot coach who is encouraging players who don't need any encouragement.

And an idiot player who crossed the line, perhaps because of the encouragement.

Two idiots, one huge mess.

======================

As for the topic of coaches doing stuff like this. It's not along the lines of Crawford saying "Moore must pay"... but before the first game of the Wings-Preds series in '04, Dave Lewis wrote some numbers on a board in the Wings locker room (Sullivan, Zidlicky, Walker, maybe legwand and Timonen) and a note that said "Hit These Players"...

Definitely not an ordered attack. Just interesting to see coaches doing stuff like that when the Players really shouldn't need any special instructions. They wings knew to get physical with the opponents skilled players, and the canucks knew that they had to pay back Moore.

If Lewis did write that, the major difference being that hitting players is legal. Even at the NHL level, coaches go over elements of the game that the players should know. But they do it to reinforce the point.

[Inultus 12]

Crawford encouraged dirty play? No way! Yeah, uhh, no surprise there. Doubt it will help Bert any though, it's not like he was forced to do what he did.

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

I wonder if this could re-open the court case or if Moore could maybe take Crawford to court. I'd like to see to Moore never have to lift a finger again because Crawford is a pos.

[Turkey 0]

Wow. I'm as shocked to hear this as I was when I found out Niedermayer is coming back.

Yes, unfortunately this is not a huge shock. Nor is it shocking that both Bert and Crawford haveboth been pulling the same "no comment" nonsense since this came out. Eventually a number of things are going to happen if this sort of nonsense is allowed to go on.

1) The league itself will be sued and they will lose. They do nothing to prevent players from breaking the rules and seriously injuring one another on a regular basis.

2) There will be a more extensive investigation of an incident like this that will be undertaken by someone who (gasp) doesn't give a fig about hockey and is not overly impressed by the nonsensical, extra-legal "code" that people like to pretend exists.

The end result of this is that the NHL will take a massive hit, not just a little black eye. That will have repercussions for all of us as hockey fans. I wish people could just wise up about this before it's too late.

[wingslogo19 281]

Im getting sick and tired about hearing about this

[Grittzkey 1]

what a freaking bum.