Datsyuk for Selke?

[Guest LivingtheDream]

I have been waiting for someone to mention this, but maybe that nobody has means I am off, but with his steals, sick +24 rating (as of the other day) and solid play on both ends of the ice, Datsyuk seems like a candidate for Selke. If he continues to play as he has, is it a shoe in? I honestly don't know much about this award, but his performance seems up there with Draper and Federov when they won it.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

This is the hardest award to judge, especially if you watch games on TV and not in person. It's difficult to notice how hard a guy plays off the puck defensively, unless you're only paying attenition to that 1 guy. I'd certainly think that Datsyuk should be a candidate this year.

[BeeRYCE 2]

Selkes are usually awarded to "shut down specialists."

Okay, Datsyuk plays the PK all the time and has the most takeaways, but his number one priority isn't defensive awareness. His offensive awareness completely outbalances any of his defensive aspects, not to say he isn't defensive minded at all, but Zetterberg would be more of a contender.

[WingNutt 12]

of course its possible and could happen. He has my vote

[Pskov Wings Fan 71]

Pavel might not get Selke, but he is well on the way for another Lady Bing.

[eva unit zero 271]

Datsyuk can't win the Selke this year.

You know why?

Because as good has he has been defensively, Zetterberg has been better. Zetterberg is also a more established named when it comes to defensive play; he was among the Selke vote leaders last season despite missing a quarter of the season.

Datsyuk may be a contender, but he won't win it; if people feel he and Zetterberg are close, and have to choose between one of them, most will choose Z.

[Echolalia 2,961]

Datsyuk can't win the Selke this year.

You know why?

Because as good has he has been defensively, Zetterberg has been better. Zetterberg is also a more established named when it comes to defensive play; he was among the Selke vote leaders last season despite missing a quarter of the season.

Datsyuk may be a contender, but he won't win it; if people feel he and Zetterberg are close, and have to choose between one of them, most will choose Z.

I'm not so sure about that. Judging from what I've seen this year, both have been extremely capable two-way players, but I've noticed that every time the puck is in our zone and Dats is on the ice, he is everywhere. The corners, along the perimeter, right in front of the net giving em' hell like a defensman, and he does has an amazing +/- and take away stats like someone else has already said. Those are both strong statistics to look at when it comes to defensive play.

[betterREDthandead 58]

You want the Wings' best candidate for Selke? Cleary. As with Draper, it (paradoxically) takes an offensive outburst to be considered. Cleary's having a career year offensively, and besides being excellent on defense 5-on-5, is an absolute PK machine.

[dallas27 7]

I'd argue that a decent part of Datsyuk's turnovers come from the offensive end. Don't want to take anything away from his play at the other end however. He's backchecking better than ever.

[imisssergei 0]

Selkes are usually awarded to "shut down specialists."

Okay, Datsyuk plays the PK all the time and has the most takeaways, but his number one priority isn't defensive awareness. His offensive awareness completely outbalances any of his defensive aspects, not to say he isn't defensive minded at all, but Zetterberg would be more of a contender.

Neither was Fedorov's when he won it.

[Doggy 130]

While Datsyuk has been excellent this season in both ends I'm pretty sure Z, Brind'amour, Draper, Lehtinen and Pandolfo will all be considered before Pav.

[datsyukismyfriend 4]

i think dats has been our best forward on defense this year, but i don't know about best in the league. but i think he's number one on the team right now in blocked shots for forwards. obviously number one in take aways. he has the best =/- of our forwards (3rd best in the league), he's an integral part of one of the best pks in the league. datsyuk's added a physical element to his game as well for which i don't think he gets as much recognition as he deserves. plus he's playing against the other team's top scorers night in night out.

like somebody else has said, he's been everywhere on the ice this year. i doubt he gets too much consideration, though. it's not what people think of when they think of datsyuk.

[MacK_Attack 108]

While Datsyuk has been excellent this season in both ends I'm pretty sure Z, Brind'amour, Draper, Lehtinen and Pandolfo will all be considered before Pav.

Lehtinen has been out for about a month or so and will be out for at least another month.

The Selke tends to go to the traditional defensive specialist who has a breakout offensive year. In that regard, I think Patrick Sharp might get some votes. I think Alfredsson and Mike Richards will get votes, too.

[Stu in Israel 0]

Lehtinen has been out for about a month or so and will be out for at least another month.

The Selke tends to go to the traditional defensive specialist who has a breakout offensive year. In that regard, I think Patrick Sharp might get some votes. I think Alfredsson and Mike Richards will get votes, too.

[Stu in Israel 0]

With Lidstrom apparently heading for another Norris, and the duo of Hasek and Osgood aparently heading for a Jennings (which Osgood and Mike Vernon won for the 1995-1996 season), and Datsyuk practically a lock for the Lady Byng, I really don't think ANY Red Wing will win the Selke; a Red Wing might be a nominee, but probably not the winner.

By the way, Frank Boucher of the New York Rangers won the Lady Byng seven times, a string of 3 consecutive times and then 4 consecutive times in the 1920s and 30s (the 1931-32 winner was Joe Primeau of the Toronto Maple Leafs). Considering Datsyuk's play as of now, I don't think it's unreasonable to think that Datsyuk will break Boucher's record, and maybe even do it consecutively. Barring major injuries of course.

[Doggy 130]

Lehtinen has been out for about a month or so and will be out for at least another month.

The Selke tends to go to the traditional defensive specialist who has a breakout offensive year. In that regard, I think Patrick Sharp might get some votes. I think Alfredsson and Mike Richards will get votes, too.

My bad on Lehtinen, I didn't realise he was out that long. I just remember him playing well for a while before he was injured.

But seriously Mack, you seem like a pretty sharp guy when it comes to hockey but I couldn't disagree more on your view of who gets awarded a Selke. I can only think of one player in the past 10-15 years that fits that description - Draper. Brind'Amour's first Selke came on a season where he did pick his game up offensively but it was hardly a breakout year.

Nevertheless, only a Wings fan after a 1-0 win would say Datsyuk has a shot at the Selke. He's gotta do a lot more than what he's done so far. He's no Fedorov yet.

[Guest LivingtheDream]

Cool. Very informative. I can see how this might be the most subjective award of them all. When Federov won it, was that one of the seasons where Bowman had him actually playing D now and again? I don't think it was. If I'm not mistaken, he was playing D on the March 26, 1997 Turtle game - gotta break out my Wings DVD set for that one though.

Edited January 9, 2008 by LivingtheDream

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

I have been waiting for someone to mention this, but maybe that nobody has means I am off, but with his steals, sick +24 rating (as of the other day) and solid play on both ends of the ice, Datsyuk seems like a candidate for Selke. If he continues to play as he has, is it a shoe in? I honestly don't know much about this award, but his performance seems up there with Draper and Federov when they won it.

It's kinda funny, but didn't the year Draper win it, he had his 20+ goal season? It seems that you still have to put up respectable offensive numbers to garner consideration. That being said though he should at the very least be a candidate as he has the offensive numbers and he leads the league in takeaways.

[Opie 308]

This is the hardest award to judge, especially if you watch games on TV and not in person. It's difficult to notice how hard a guy plays off the puck defensively, unless you're only paying attenition to that 1 guy. I'd certainly think that Datsyuk should be a candidate this year.

Exactly, great post.

This award is so hard to judge, I bet fans of every team think they have a legit Selke contender, because they see their team so often. Because they watch their one defensive guy and look for defense. When people see the Wings and Dats(to a lesser extend Z) people think one thing, offense! Well when they think wings in general they think offense. No one really pays attention to how good they are defensively, other than the fact that the wings have the best D-man in the world. And just like Lids will get credit for Ozzie and Hasek having great years, he will also get credit for helping the forwards play D.

But hey if that is the price to pay for having #5 back there, so be it!!!!

[eva unit zero 271]

Brind'Amour's first Selke came on a season where he did pick his game up offensively but it was hardly a breakout year.

Brind'Amour's first Selke came in what was an offensive renaissance for him; he had been scoring less and playing in a more defensive role the previous couple of years, then suddenly he was back scoring near a point per game. I don't agree that he should have won the trophy either year-he's a good two-way player but he has never been a shutdown defensive forward-but his case is similar to many others with the improved offense.

The problem with offense being tied to the Selke recently stems from Doug Gilmour and Sergei Fedorov. Gilmour won it while scoring 127 points and finishing as a Hart finalist in 1992-93. Fedorov won the award the next year when he scored 56 goals and 120 points, and also picked up the Hart trophy. Since then people have viewed it as much more of a 'Best two-way forward' award. John Madden's Selke win in 2001 was the only instance of a player who scored less than .5 points per game; he scored 38 points in 80 games, and set what is still a career high with 23 goals. Before the early 90s, it often went to a defensive stopper who while he may have scored more than .5 points per game, it often was not a fluke season. Rick Meagher won with 25 points in 76 games in 1989, in what was statistically his worst offensive season to date. Dirk Graham won in 1991 with 45 points, a number he had surpassed many times-but did not win in 1989, when he scored a career-high 78 points. Guy Carbonneau won three Selkes and scored 40 points eight times; only once did he do both. Bob Gainey scored 40 points three times, but only once did that happen in his four Selke seasons. So while there is a history of the award being given to a defensively sound player who also chips in offensively, it is a much more recent trend that has seen it often go to an offensive player who also plays defense. I can think of about five instances in the past ten years where the winner did not deserve the trophy. This includes the 2001 and 2004 seasons, when Kirk Maltby should have won the trophy.

Edited January 9, 2008 by eva unit zero

[betterREDthandead 58]

Cool. Very informative. I can see how this might be the most subjective award of them all. When Federov won it, was that one of the seasons where Bowman had him actually playing D now and again? I don't think it was. If I'm not mistaken, he was playing D on the March 26, 1997 Turtle game - gotta break out my Wings DVD set for that one though.

Yes, Sergei was manning the blue line during that game. Watched it in full (again) couple weeks ago and the announcers make mention of it.

But his Selke seasons came before then. Won in '94 and '96. I think '97 was the first year of the Fedorov-as-defenseman experiment.

[daniel1 32]

Wow, no wonder the Wings record is tremendous; there are 4 legitimate Selke candidates on this year's team (Dats, Z, Draper and Cleary) and another one who plays great D without the awesome offense (Maltby). Maybe Holland is on to something with stocking a team full of two-way players rather than pure offense (Jagr, Spezza, Ovechkin) and pure defense type guys.

Look at the PK guys we can pair up: Dats, Z, Cleary, Draper, Maltby, Franzen, Samuelsson, Drake, Filpulla... Most teams struggle to find two sets (4) of guys to kill off a two minute penalty. No mystery as to why our PK has been so good recently; just look at the forwards who are great on the PK.

Throw in a couple of Norris winners (Lids, Cheli), a should-be Norris winner (Rafalski) a big, tough stay at home D-man (Lilja) and two great goalies means you've got a great chance to kill the penalty off.

[Doggy 130]

Brind'Amour's first Selke came in what was an offensive renaissance for him; he had been scoring less and playing in a more defensive role the previous couple of years, then suddenly he was back scoring near a point per game.

Nice post, but I still maintain it was not a breakout year offensively. The reason I say this is that I was under the impression that a breakout year was one where you put up numbers you never have previously in your career. In his mid-twenties Brind'Amour was consistently having 80-90 pt seasons. So I don't think it was a breakout year.

Edited January 9, 2008 by Doggy

[toby91_ca 620]

Wow, no wonder the Wings record is tremendous; there are 4 legitimate Selke candidates on this year's team (Dats, Z, Draper and Cleary)

Depends on what you mean by "legitimate candidates." There is a pretty good chance that none of those guys are even nominated (i.e. top 3).

[Doggy 130]

Depends on what you mean by "legitimate candidates." There is a pretty good chance that none of those guys are even nominated (i.e. top 3).

Hehe. True.

If the nominees were announced today, I really think Zetterberg is the only one who has even a slight chance at being nominated.