What happened, Holland? Cap space for what?

[HenryMalredo 2]

Can you imagine if he had made moves though? Kopecky & Hudler for Gratton and a 3rd, Sammy for Ryder. No complaining then!

If Gratton and Ryder weren't traded at all, what makes you think they would have been availible if the Wings has made an offer?

[Lou_Siffer 1]

If Gratton and Ryder weren't traded at all, what makes you think they would have been availible if the Wings has made an offer?

Gratton i never actually heard any rumors about, in his case you'd just have to assume given his 1yr deal that Tampa wouldve moved him for a decent offer. Ryder was definitely available though.

[eva unit zero 271]

Gratton i never actually heard any rumors about, in his case you'd just have to assume given his 1yr deal that Tampa wouldve moved him for a decent offer. Ryder was definitely available though.

It looks to me like Montreal had all but locked up Hossa and the Pittsburgh swooped in. Why else would the Habs have dumped off Huet for next to nothing, if not to clear up some salary? Price is going to be good...but he's not ready to be a full-time starter just yet.

I have to think Montreal thought they had a deal lined up on the order of Higgins/Ryder/pick for Hossa, and then Pittsburgh came along with their deal. Or perhaps Montreal was clearing space for a potential Hossa deal and would have only taken a signed Hossa, but then Hossa changed his mind before the deal was official but after they traded Huet.

[Grim 5]

Folks are frustrated cuz we recognize how close they are (or should be) to winning it all. A player or two would make a huge difference. Now if we were bottom scrappers like the Kings or Lightning, a body or two would hardly help and no one would give a hoot.

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

at least we'll have some cap to sign Cleary and/or Hank. I think it's kinda interesting how our team was effected after Cleary was hurt. Just seems like to me we started playing very mediocre after Cleary went down. I really hope we can get some sort of deal done with him at a reasonable price around 2.5 or 3 at the most per year.

Edited February 27, 2008 by Mudvayneowns91

[Opie 308]

As said by others in many other pages and pages of trade talks, Mon were buyers not sellers the only reason Ryder was even being talked about was to get Hossa, kind of like Flip, the only way they would have traded him was if something really special was coming back.

Because you are willing to trade doesn't make you a seller, because Mon was willing to part with him for Hossa what makes some of you think they would part with him Sammy and a third?

[Hank 0]

I'm a little upset that we haven't been able to get that big scoring forward for nearly 12 months either.

But saying that, I don't know if Holland tried and tried but other teams were being too difficult. Seeing what Atlanta got for Hossa I don't think we could have matched that.

And the other 3 guys I wanted - Fedorov, Foote and Lapointe - are all Central division players and I didn't think their GM's would deal with a rival.

The only free agent I would have loved to grab was Huet. I know many here are very happy with our goaltending but it's the one area I think we need more security for. Last year Hasek played great and helped us to the conference finals. But I think it's hard to argue that in almost every loss we suffered he let in at least 1 soft goal. I think Huet would help me sleep better at night.

But I'm satisfied with our team going into the playoffs. Sure, I would have liked to get a little meaner up front but I don't think Holland had many dance partners to get that deal done.

And look at it this way, it could be worse. We could have Kevin Lowe. This guy has basically ruined his team in a mere 18 months.

[sputman 1,268]

if it hasn't been said already, has no one noticed how good the tigers got in the off season this year? maybe illitch had his hand in who the wings signed in order to retain a little coin.

Edited February 27, 2008 by drumshanbo

[calfan 0]

Rip Holland all you like - I still happen to think the guy's the best or one of the best GM's in the league. You'll never know what he tried to swing for trades, and not just at the deadline, but all year long.

The fact is, some of the best trades are the ones you never make. Look at all the big rentals last year - did any work? No. You have to ask what the hell Pittsburg was thinking with what they gave up for Hossa - a noted playoff bust. Maybe they believe they can sign him to a deal. Maybe they robbed the bank simply to ensure he didn't go to a conference rival. Before yesterday, Montreal was starting to get some serious consideration as the force in the east. Maybe the price was worth it to keep them from getting Hossa too.

Darryl Sutter said he could have made several BAD trades yesterday - he chose not to. He also said that in his opinion you don't/can't make moves at the trade deadline to improve your team. History would seem to support that opinion.

Why sell your future for a current year run? There are so many variables to winning a Cup that are outside of a team's control. What if Lidstrom and Hank go down in the first round of the playoffs? What if you take the Ducks to OT in the seventh game and a flutterball flies over Ozzie into the net because he was down and couldn't get back up (see Flames vs Kings, 1990). I don't believe one player can make a difference. Certainly not any player that a team is willing to trade. The best you can do at this time of year is patch a hole or add some depth. Brad Stuart is that patch and the price was right.

Edited February 27, 2008 by calfan

[The Enforcer 13]

I could see that.

I can understand people being disappointed and that anger being directed at holland. But it's not like he's sitting on his hands, or thinks the Wings don't need offense. It just means he didn't get a guy signed. People seem to think because we didn't sign Hossa, that must mean Holland didn't even pick up the phone.

I agree with that. I think his hands were tied by the cap also. He did try. I think he needs to start drafting some more North American players to compliment the Euros, and focus on playing our younger goalies to get experience. Outside of that, he still does a decent job.

[CMatt89 63]

I like the Stuart deal...But I would have liked to see a forward, not neccessarily a star, but someone who can get the job done. I also wanted to see us part ways with Hudler..but I'm not going to be too sour about it. The only thing i can think of is Holland is very worried about signing Zetterberg and Cleary in the off season. They arent going to come cheap so maybe Holland was cautious at the deadline because of that. Thats the only thing I can think of.

[2probert4 8]

I'm a little upset that we haven't been able to get that big scoring forward for nearly 12 months either.

But saying that, I don't know if Holland tried and tried but other teams were being too difficult. Seeing what Atlanta got for Hossa I don't think we could have matched that.

And the other 3 guys I wanted - Fedorov, Foote and Lapointe - are all Central division players and I didn't think their GM's would deal with a rival.

The only free agent I would have loved to grab was Huet. I know many here are very happy with our goaltending but it's the one area I think we need more security for. Last year Hasek played great and helped us to the conference finals. But I think it's hard to argue that in almost every loss we suffered he let in at least 1 soft goal. I think Huet would help me sleep better at night.

But I'm satisfied with our team going into the playoffs. Sure, I would have liked to get a little meaner up front but I don't think Holland had many dance partners to get that deal done.

And look at it this way, it could be worse. We could have Kevin Lowe. This guy has basically ruined his team in a mere 18 months.

I think after next season you may see Ryan Miller wearing a Wings jersey.

[loutswings 47]

Rip Holland all you like - I still happen to think the guy's the best or one of the best GM's in the league. You'll never know what he tried to swing for trades, and not just at the deadline, but all year long.

The fact is, some of the best trades are the ones you never make. Look at all the big rentals last year - did any work? No. You have to ask what the hell Pittsburg was thinking with what they gave up for Hossa - a noted playoff bust. Maybe they believe they can sign him to a deal. Maybe they robbed the bank simply to ensure he didn't go to a conference rival. Before yesterday, Montreal was starting to get some serious consideration as the force in the east. Maybe the price was worth it to keep them from getting Hossa too.

Darryl Sutter said he could have made several BAD trades yesterday - he chose not to. He also said that in his opinion you don't/can't make moves at the trade deadline to improve your team. History would seem to support that opinion.

Why sell your future for a current year run? There are so many variables to winning a Cup that are outside of a team's control. What if Lidstrom and Hank go down in the first round of the playoffs? What if you take the Ducks to OT in the seventh game and a flutterball flies over Ozzie into the net because he was down and couldn't get back up (see Flames vs Kings, 1990). I don't believe one player can make a difference. Certainly not any player that a team is willing to trade. The best you can do at this time of year is patch a hole or add some depth. Brad Stuart is that patch and the price was right.

i can't agree with you anymore. i do believe kenny was really shopping for a forward but the asking prices were too steep. i would not want to give up a 1st rd pick for fedorov, or a couple picks, a player for hossa. why waste all that for a player who is only a rental. in long run this will pay off. i feel we still have a good shot to win the cup. right now, we are a little banged up and there is plenty of hockey to be played. for the other teams there's nothing saying they will have injuries before the playoffs. if we don't win the cup the nice thing is we can resign hank and cleary. hopefully, we could sign another forward during the offseason.

[2probert4 8]

Didn't you hand in your Red Wings badge??

I was thinking the same thing after his outcry of heartbreak yesterday.

[Hank 0]

I think after next season you may see Ryan Miller wearing a Wings jersey.

Van Damme loves Ryan Miller:

Edited February 27, 2008 by Hank

[2probert4 8]

I am disturbed at how little these teams are giving up for guys like Federov, Lapointe, and Huet. It makes me think Holland has got to have something working here in the last hour.

If not - I might have to agree with you.

It's rare that teams trade within their own division - especially to the team they all hate. Chelios was the exception years ago because Bill Wirtz wanted to punish Chelios by sending him to a team that he was said to have hated. Im sure that the price was more for Holland than it was for another team. This kid Columbus got for Feds is a good prospect, he's still at Notre Dame but he's pretty good. Columbus may have gotten the better of the deal. Columbus did well in the Foote trade also, getting a 1st rounder plus the conditional pick if he resigns with the Avs, I think they did well in that aspect.

[2probert4 8]

Yeah the Pens gave up only 3 players and a first round pick for hossa. And the Stars gave up 3 good players for Richards and the Sharks gave up a good player and a 1st rounder for a guy that the Wings didn't need and wouldn't have resigned. And everyone else that moved, other than maybe Prospal, wasn't going to make or break the Wings. Sorry Fedorov wasn't going to put this team over the top. Would he have helped maybe maybe not. The last time he played in the playoffs for the Wings he had a total of one goal in that sweep against the Ducks. And that was 5 years ago.

Exactly. They pulled a NYI. Gave up a crap load for a guy just for a few months. Hossa will not be a Pen next year. If he is Pitt. will be the next version of where TB is now.

Nice post...... What Dallas gave up wasn't that bad, and they didnt have to part with Fistric. Not sure if Turco is enough to take them far or not, and with Zubov having surgery not long ago, all this talk of Dallas being the latest Cup Contender is not a given. They improved immensely, but Zubov being out is as critical as Lidstrom being out for the Wings. No Im not saying Zubov is equal to Lids either.....But he is a top tier # 1 defenseman.

[2probert4 8]

Dear Leftwinger,

Both your gutter language and your ill-founded logic need some serious help. I won't waste my time defending Ken Holland whom most people agree is a great GM.

Does turning in your card mean that we won't have to read your vitriol again?!

you forgot to add "heartbreak" to his logic. his issues go much deeper than just being a fan of a player.

[Opie 308]

Van Damme loves Ryan Miller:

That photo gets me everytime!!!!

[epps 0]

Just because the Wings have the cap space doesn't mean they should've spent it on the crap availible on the free agent market last summer.

You mean crap like Brad Stuart- the guy we just traded 2nd and 4th rounders for?

[winsgnut_19 0]

i wanna know where holland was when ruutu began being shopped... that would have been a nice edition

[2probert4 8]

i wanna know where holland was when ruutu began being shopped... that would have been a nice edition

refer back to the posts about teams trading within their own division....ruutu stays injured anyways, we have enough of that in Detroit !

[Winged Scooter 0]

You mean crap like Brad Stuart- the guy we just traded 2nd and 4th rounders for?

Thank you! That's what I said somewhere earlier in this post. If we couldn't use VALUABLE cap space for a player like Stuart ( or similar to him...) in the off season, then why is it TOTALLY acceptable to waste two draft picks on him?

[HenryMalredo 2]

Thank you! That's what I said somewhere earlier in this post. If we couldn't use VALUABLE cap space for a player like Stuart ( or similar to him...) in the off season, then why is it TOTALLY acceptable to waste two draft picks on him?

Easy, the situation changed. Management felt that they did not need another defenseman over the offseason, but after looking at how the Red Wings have performed this season, they felt it was important to add a defenseman.

[Matt 1,048]

You mean crap like Brad Stuart- the guy we just traded 2nd and 4th rounders for?

Thank you! That's what I said somewhere earlier in this post. If we couldn't use VALUABLE cap space for a player like Stuart ( or similar to him...) in the off season, then why is it TOTALLY acceptable to waste two draft picks on him?

Time to clear up a misconception here: You both are assuming that the Red Wings had no interest in Stuart over the summer. That's patently false -- Holland said himself immediately after the trade that Stuart was a player the club courted (and sent an offer to) in the off-season but Stuart decided he wanted to stay on the west coast. Hence the 1-year deal with the Kings.

Stuart was a target for the Red Wings before training camp this year. The two sides just couldn't come to a deal.