Top 10 of 1989

[eva unit zero 271]

Uhhh Bure totally is better then Fedorov, but Lidstrom is maybe the best player at his position ever soooooo. Yeah.

I am sorry but Fedorov is not better the Bure, so yeah if you think so you are just a homer.

Bure was fast, and was one of the best goal scorers.

Fedorov was equally fast, and was also one of the best goal scorers.

But Fedorov also was a dominant defensive forward, a great playmaker, and an extremely strong and durable player capable of playing any position at the elite level.

Among players in the league this year, Bure vs Fedorov is most closely compared to...Brad Boyes vs Pavel Datsyuk. Boyes isn't the scorer Bure was, and Dats isn't the defensive forward Sergei was...but the comparison is similar. Which player would you take?

Edited March 16, 2008 by eva unit zero

[BeeRYCE 2]

Back in the summer of '89.

[BeeRYCE 2]

Bure was fast, and was one of the best goal scorers.

Fedorov was equally fast, and was also one of the best goal scorers.

But Fedorov also was a dominant defensive forward, a great playmaker, and an extremely strong and durable player capable of playing any position at the elite level.

Among players in the league this year, Bure vs Fedorov is most closely compared to...Brad Boyes vs Pavel Datsyuk. Boyes isn't the scorer Bure was, and Dats isn't the defensive forward Sergei was...but the comparison is similar. Which player would you take?

Gaborik vs Datsyuk, IMO.

Meaning it wouldn't be a stretch to take Gaborik, but the SMART thing to do is take Datsyuk. Anybody on any walks of life would take Datsyuk over Boyes.

[csdan 0]

Sakic is someone I've never hated, but that doesn't mean that I like him. He's just hard to hate.

Parker I like. His problem has been playing for douchebag coaches and playing in this "new NHL".

Anyway, that's about all the pro-divealanche comments that I'll make for one evening.

Hey its a start.

Seriously GMR, I know you probably could care less, especially coming from me, but I have to give you props because all the posts I've seen form you lately have still carried your own opinions but you've been so much more respectful doing it, especially when it comes to Avs stuff. Thanks, I appreciate it, even though I still know you hate them.

[imisssergei 0]

Bure was fast, and was one of the best goal scorers.

Fedorov was equally fast, and was also one of the best goal scorers.

But Fedorov also was a dominant defensive forward, a great playmaker, and an extremely strong and durable player capable of playing any position at the elite level.

Among players in the league this year, Bure vs Fedorov is most closely compared to...Brad Boyes vs Pavel Datsyuk. Boyes isn't the scorer Bure was, and Dats isn't the defensive forward Sergei was...but the comparison is similar. Which player would you take?

Boyes to Datsyuk? I think that is a horrid comparison.

I think a more fitting comparison would be Kovalchuk to Datsyuk.

Kovalchuk is the modern day Bure. Wicked fast, offensive marvel, average at best defensively, and someone who his teammates benefit from playing with, but doesn't necessarily make them better. He needs the puck to be effective.

Datsyuk is the modern day Fedoov. Extremely talented at both ends of the ice, and a player that makes his teammates better. He is great without the puck.

[eva unit zero 271]

Gaborik vs Datsyuk, IMO.

Meaning it wouldn't be a stretch to take Gaborik, but the SMART thing to do is take Datsyuk. Anybody on any walks of life would take Datsyuk over Boyes.

Gaborik's stat spread is typically close to 50-50. Boyes is the only guy among the goal scoring leaders who offers defense that is average at best, is quick, no significant physical game, and whose scoring spread has far more goals than assists. Putting all those respects together, he's the most 'Bure-like' player in the league today. Gaborik is a much more evenly distributed scoring talent than Boyes or Bure are, in that he is just as much of a threat to set up a goal as he is to score one.

Bure had more goals than assists in all but three seasons. In those three seasons, he scored a combined 65 goals in 163 games...basically 33 goal pace. He played 40+ games in nine seasons including those three. Of the six remaining seasons, only in his rookie year, when he scored 34, did Bure fail to score 50 goals. Only once did he top 50 assists in his career, and only one other time did he top 40. That's five 50-goal seasons with only two 40-assist seasons. Gaborik has had more assists four times in his seven year career.

[toby91_ca 620]

I find that the general public seems to overrate goal scorers in general. This doesn't mean that I don't think Bure wasn't a great player, because he was. He was a very exciting player to watch, scored many highlight reel goals, but in terms of a comparison to Fedorov, Fedorov takes the comparison easily as far as I am concerned.

[Barrie 900]

Why?

Fedorov won two Selke's, a Hart, a Pearson, and three Cups. Plus, he's obviously stronger in the longevity department.

Bure was better at goal scoring. That's it.

Yea, all Bure had on Fedorov was flash. Fedorov in his prime could do it all.

[Barrie 900]

My top ten....

Sundin

Guerin

Kolzig

Holik

Foote

Brisebois

Lidstrom

Fedorov

Bure

Konstantinov

Honorable mention....

Sillinger

Draper

Irbe

What? Why is Lidstrom 7th?

[stevie for president 42]

i think you guys are missing the biggest point. BURE over LIDSTROM?! are you kidding me? Lidstrom is one of the greatest hockey players of all-time. If he was north american instead of swedish he would be about to win his nhl record 9th norris trophy. If he didnt play with hall of famers his whole career he would have plenty of harts and pearsons. When you think of greatest defensemen of all time its hard to take anyone over bobby orr, but after him id say it lidstrom. Best goal scorers of all-time, bure isnt in my top 10.

and as far as fedorov is concerned, we saw him game in and game out, we didnt see bure close to as much as fedorov.

[Aeothe Kaear 0]

Gaborik's stat spread is typically close to 50-50. Boyes is the only guy among the goal scoring leaders who offers defense that is average at best, is quick, no significant physical game, and whose scoring spread has far more goals than assists. Putting all those respects together, he's the most 'Bure-like' player in the league today. Gaborik is a much more evenly distributed scoring talent than Boyes or Bure are, in that he is just as much of a threat to set up a goal as he is to score one.

Bure had more goals than assists in all but three seasons. In those three seasons, he scored a combined 65 goals in 163 games...basically 33 goal pace. He played 40+ games in nine seasons including those three. Of the six remaining seasons, only in his rookie year, when he scored 34, did Bure fail to score 50 goals. Only once did he top 50 assists in his career, and only one other time did he top 40. That's five 50-goal seasons with only two 40-assist seasons. Gaborik has had more assists four times in his seven year career.

Gaborik is the player who comes closest to having Bure's ability to handle the puck effectively at warp speed.

Edited March 17, 2008 by Aeothe Kaear

[imisssergei 0]

What? Why is Lidstrom 7th?

It's in order drafted.

[eva unit zero 271]

Gaborik is the player who comes closest to having Bure's ability to handle the puck effectively at warp speed.

But Datsyuk doesn't have Fedorov's warp speed.

I tried to pick two guys who had similar speed to each other as Fedorov and Bure did, and other similarities to the situation rather than the two fastest guys I could find. Gaborik's speed is a huge advantage over Dats in that comparison. That's not something Bure had over Fedorov.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

But Datsyuk doesn't have Fedorov's warp speed.

I tried to pick two guys who had similar speed to each other as Fedorov and Bure did, and other similarities to the situation rather than the two fastest guys I could find. Gaborik's speed is a huge advantage over Dats in that comparison. That's not something Bure had over Fedorov.

I think that Bure was the best puckhandler I've ever seen in the NHL at full speed. I don't know if he was faster than Sergei, but with the puck he could blow by the defense better than Sergei could, so I'd have to give him the nod.

[eva unit zero 271]

I think that Bure was the best puckhandler I've ever seen in the NHL at full speed. I don't know if he was faster than Sergei, but with the puck he could blow by the defense better than Sergei could, so I'd have to give him the nod.

I think Sergei was just as good at full speed as Bure was. Maybe better.

But as far as ability to handle the puck at top speed, combined with a true top gear...the best guy I've ever seen in that regard was Russ Courtnall. Most guys lose a step off their top gear when they have the puck, Fedorov and Bure included. Courtnall didn't.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

I think Sergei was just as good at full speed as Bure was. Maybe better.

But as far as ability to handle the puck at top speed, combined with a true top gear...the best guy I've ever seen in that regard was Russ Courtnall. Most guys lose a step off their top gear when they have the puck, Fedorov and Bure included. Courtnall didn't.

No offense to Courtnall, but there's no way he was better at it than Bure was.

Also, another guy to consider, even though I've never seen him play was Valeri Kharlamov. From what I hear, nobody could handle the puck at full speed the way he could. He put the fear of God into opponents when he had the puck.

Likewise, just for the hell of it, Mikael Samuelsson is by far the worst puck handler I've ever seen at full speed.

[eva unit zero 271]

No offense to Courtnall, but there's no way he was better at it than Bure was.

Also, another guy to consider, even though I've never seen him play was Valeri Kharlamov. From what I hear, nobody could handle the puck at full speed the way he could. He put the fear of God into opponents when he had the puck.

Likewise, just for the hell of it, Mikael Samuelsson is by far the worst puck handler I've ever seen at full speed.

When I say best puckhandler at speed, I am speaking strictly in the sense of being able to carry the puck and not lose speed off your stride. Bure couldn't do that...Courtnall did. Bure had better moves than Courtnall, but he couldn't carry the puck at his top skating speed. Maybe a handful of guys in history have been able to do that and skate extremely quick..and Courtnall is one of them.

[theman19 47]

i think you guys are missing the biggest point. BURE over LIDSTROM?! are you kidding me? Lidstrom is one of the greatest hockey players of all-time. If he was north american instead of swedish he would be about to win his nhl record 9th norris trophy. If he didnt play with hall of famers his whole career he would have plenty of harts and pearsons. When you think of greatest defensemen of all time its hard to take anyone over bobby orr, but after him id say it lidstrom. Best goal scorers of all-time, bure isnt in my top 10.

and as far as fedorov is concerned, we saw him game in and game out, we didnt see bure close to as much as fedorov.

i think it's a given,..i saw that but i didn't even feel like brining it up. Lids is one of the top 10 players at his position all time,...maybe top 5 depending on what happens for the rest of his career.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

people have this really weird habit of seeing a player go a little past there prime and that instantly negates they're greatness. If Federov retires in 2003 instead of going to the ducks,...we're not having this argument, we're talking about his number in the rafters at the joe.

Federov in his prime was the most complete player in the world, hence the hart trophy and numerous other awards. Just because he's a shell of his former self doesn't mean in 1994 he wasn't the best player in the NHL (who did he beat out for that hart? oh yeah, bure)

i mean did you guys never see bure play in Florida?

And Bure was maybe the most dynamic player ever. In his prime there was nobody with more pure scoring ability and downright blazing speed than Bure.

Would I pick Bure over Lidstrom, no way. Not even if Bure never had injuries.

Would I pick Bure over Fedorov, hell yes and 2x on Sunday.

Injuries and playing on uber fantastic teams did Bure a disfavor.

Of course we can't say for certain what Fedorov would've been had he not had the benefit of playing most of his career on the most dominant team in the league. Bure didn't have near the support that Fedorov had. Much like the arguments today of AO versus Crosby.

Usually I side with Crosby. But on this comparison, i'm going Bure all the way. He was amazing to watch. And more amazing to watch than Fedorov.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Bure was fast, and was one of the best goal scorers.

Fedorov was equally fast, and was also one of the best goal scorers.

But Fedorov also was a dominant defensive forward, a great playmaker, and an extremely strong and durable player capable of playing any position at the elite level.

Among players in the league this year, Bure vs Fedorov is most closely compared to...Brad Boyes vs Pavel Datsyuk. Boyes isn't the scorer Bure was, and Dats isn't the defensive forward Sergei was...but the comparison is similar. Which player would you take?

WRONG AGAIN. There's no way Fedorov was as fast as Bure. Fedorov had excellent speed but Bure had Mike Gartner type wheels. No way Fedorov could touch Bure in the speed department.

[calfan 0]

That's probably the best draft a team has ever had. The Wings drafted six bona-fide NHL players that year: Sillinger, Boughner, Lidstrom, Fedorov, Drake, and Konstantinov. The rest of their picks never stuck in the NHL but six out of fourteen is very good, especially considering Lidstrom, Fedorov, and Konstantinov are/would be sure-fire HOF'ers.

eh, don't think so.

1979 the Edmonton Oilers draft a total of 6 players, amongst them, Kevin Lowe (21), Mark Messier (48) and Glenn Anderson (69).

1980 the Oilers draft a total of 8 players, amongst them, Paul Coffey (6), Jari Kurri (69), Walt Puddubny (90) [i know, but he did have a reasonable career] and Andy Moog (132).

I'd take either of those two draft years over the Wings in 89.

[theman19 47]

WRONG AGAIN. There's no way Fedorov was as fast as Bure. Fedorov had excellent speed but Bure had Mike Gartner type wheels. No way Fedorov could touch Bure in the speed department.

He was this day.

[theman19 47]

And Bure was maybe the most dynamic player ever. In his prime there was nobody with more pure scoring ability and downright blazing speed than Bure.

Would I pick Bure over Lidstrom, no way. Not even if Bure never had injuries.

Would I pick Bure over Fedorov, hell yes and 2x on Sunday.

Injuries and playing on uber fantastic teams did Bure a disfavor.

Of course we can't say for certain what Fedorov would've been had he not had the benefit of playing most of his career on the most dominant team in the league. Bure didn't have near the support that Fedorov had. Much like the arguments today of AO versus Crosby.

Usually I side with Crosby. But on this comparison, i'm going Bure all the way. He was amazing to watch. And more amazing to watch than Fedorov.

the year Federov was drafted 89, the wings were not a dominate force, in fact they didn't get that way until after bure went to the finals in 94. You'll recall we got swept by the sharks that year and several other painful playoff losses before that.

Also, Bure may have been great to watch, that doesn't make him great by default.

[calfan 0]

Another good year:

Calgary Flames 1984

Gary Roberts (12) - still playing

Paul Ranheim (38) - played from 1988-2003

Brett Hull (117) - you may have heard of him

Jiri Hrdina (159) - only played 5 yrs, but won 1 Cup with the Flames and 2 Cups with Pittsburg

Gary Suter (180) - Rookie of the Year 1986, played till 2002

out of 12 picks in total.

[akustyk 84]

He was this day.

the only thing that this proves is that without the puck Sergei has once beaten Bure

on a margin of 0.1 s which would about a fraction of 1/160 of the speed difference.