Dispelling some myths: the Pittsburgh Penguins

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

DISPELLING THE MYTH OF MYTHS

#1..... you cannot say sample size is too small to fit your liking. 25% in playoffs is 25% in playoffs. if the wings take stupid penalties, they will pay.

#2...... wings have the edge in defense. cannot argue with you there. whitney will own the norris trophy for the next decade, gonchar is a candidate this year. you certainly have better offensive defensemen but you have no one as "stay home, hard hitting" as orpik. you have not faced as aggressive a forecheck as the pens. as i think we are the more offensively deep team, look for some of your "elder" defensemen to be a little slow come the third period.

#3....... hossa played a fraction of the season on a good team. HE IS AS GOOD A BACKCHECKER AS THERE IS IN THE GAME. if he had played the whole season as a pen, he would be up for the award as well. every player has a role, and crosby and malkings role is not to kill penalties. if you have watched any of our series you know that crosby can play defense with any forward out there.

#4......... youth vs experience. our entire season was filled with adversity losing crosby and fleury..... they held up just fine...... youth does not care that drake is 39 and chelios is 62, they are full of ignorance and cockiness that comes with youth........ but drake and chelios will certainly feel their age as games and the series go forward.

#5......... fleury is the better goalie based on agility and skill. correct he has not seen the rubber detroit will throw but FLEURY CAN STEAL A GAME FOR THE PENS, where osgood cannot. (in my humble opinion of course)

#6...... the sun will rise, you will pay taxes, and the pens will be outshot....... such is the way of the world...... but our goals per shot percentage is lights out ....... if they DO throw pucks at the net like they should..... osgood will be replace by hasek in short order.......

should be one heck of a series........ cant wait to watch it............. good luck

Time to argue.

1.) Our PK is best in the playoffs, sure you guys have a good player play, but if Malkin decides to make those flashy blind passes Franzen and Zetterberg will make him pay.

2.) Gonchar doesnt deserve that nomination, if Zubov is healthy for even 15 more games this season he would be there. Whitney will never ever win a Norris. Orpik hits hard, Stuart hits hard. Stuart is a better defenceman, having a shutdown defenceman who is slow is useless, see big Ole' Derian. That's what Dallas said and it didnt happen, good luck forechecking our d-men.

3.) Hossa is a dynamic offensive player and a good back checker, will never win a Selke. He doesnt do enough.

4.) You wont be saying that when Drake is running all your d-men. Experience is key even if you dont want to believe it.

5.) Explain to me how he is? Osgood was better in the regular season, he's been better in the playoffs (2 more wins by Fleury, I wish we had played Ottawa!). He cant steal a game? Must not have watched most of our games then.

6.) :lol: Hasek will not play, the Penguins will not get to Ozzie like that.

Also, there isnt alot you can say about faceoffs. Crosby is your best guy, and his is somewhere in the 40's. After that is Staal, Talbot and Malkin. It'll be hard to generate shots when the puck is on the Wings stick all game.

[Dabura 12,232]

Excellent post.

The bottom line is this: the Pens will need to play out of their minds and make zero mistakes if they're to win this series, whereas all the Wings need to do is play their patented brand of hockey that they've been playing and perfecting for over a decade.

This series is the Wings' to lose.

[HkyTwn 5]

I believe one other factor that should be mentioned that even Burnside missed and that is the faceoff factor. Detroit is a beast in winning faceoffs and Pittsburgh is not that good. It will be difficult for them to work if they are chasing the puck.

Yeah basically Well said.

[sibiriak 84]

DISPELLING THE MYTH OF MYTHS

#1..... you cannot say sample size is too small to fit your liking. 25% in playoffs is 25% in playoffs. if the wings take stupid penalties, they will pay.

Good PP is a good PP. No argument here. But the Wings' PK is top 4 in the playoffs and was very good during the regular season.

#2...... wings have the edge in defense. cannot argue with you there. whitney will own the norris trophy for the next decade, gonchar is a candidate this year. you certainly have better offensive defensemen but you have no one as "stay home, hard hitting" as orpik. you have not faced as aggressive a forecheck as the pens. as i think we are the more offensively deep team, look for some of your "elder" defensemen to be a little slow come the third period.

Who needs a stay at home defenseman when one has Lidstrom? Detroit's top 4 D-men are good in both ends of the ice.

#3....... hossa played a fraction of the season on a good team. HE IS AS GOOD A BACKCHECKER AS THERE IS IN THE GAME. if he had played the whole season as a pen, he would be up for the award as well. every player has a role, and crosby and malkings role is not to kill penalties. if you have watched any of our series you know that crosby can play defense with any forward out there.

That's a new one on me. Do you have some stats to back this up? Hossa may not be bad defensively, but I'd not call him a "AS GOOD A BACKCHECKER AS THERE IS IN THE GAME"

#4......... youth vs experience. our entire season was filled with adversity losing crosby and fleury..... they held up just fine...... youth does not care that drake is 39 and chelios is 62, they are full of ignorance and cockiness that comes with youth........

And when the 20-year old suddenly realizes that he is playing in the Stanley Cup finals, his hands start to shake and his brain freezes. Also a 20-year old tends to think that he'll be in the finals many times in the future. When Drake and Chelios know how rare an opportunity this is.

#5......... fleury is the better goalie based on agility and skill. correct he has not seen the rubber detroit will throw but FLEURY CAN STEAL A GAME FOR THE PENS, where osgood cannot. (in my humble opinion of course)

Osgood kept the Wings in games where they were outplayed. And he's "seen the elefant". Which Fleury yet hasn't.

#6...... the sun will rise, you will pay taxes, and the pens will be outshot....... such is the way of the world...... but our goals per shot percentage is lights out ....... if they DO throw pucks at the net like they should..... osgood will be replace by hasek in short order.......

should be one heck of a series........ cant wait to watch it............. good luck

And that's where we'll have to watch the games to find out who's right.

It indeed should be one heck of a series.

['33' 0]

Faceoffs.. blah.

In the regualr season, Detroit was #1 in the league, Pittsburgh was dead last.

But, oh my.. Pittsburgh scored on 10.6% of their shots, good enough for 3rd in the league. While Detroit only converted 8.9%.. 21st in the league.

No doubt you will win the faceoffs, we don't need them. We will get the puck one way or another, we always do.. and when we do decide to quite being pretty with the passing, we will score.

Hasek will be your starter by game 4.

[norrisnick 1]

DISPELLING THE MYTH OF MYTHS

#1..... you cannot say sample size is too small to fit your liking. 25% in playoffs is 25% in playoffs. if the wings take stupid penalties, they will pay.

#2...... wings have the edge in defense. cannot argue with you there. whitney will own the norris trophy for the next decade, gonchar is a candidate this year. you certainly have better offensive defensemen but you have no one as "stay home, hard hitting" as orpik. you have not faced as aggressive a forecheck as the pens. as i think we are the more offensively deep team, look for some of your "elder" defensemen to be a little slow come the third period.

#3....... hossa played a fraction of the season on a good team. HE IS AS GOOD A BACKCHECKER AS THERE IS IN THE GAME. if he had played the whole season as a pen, he would be up for the award as well. every player has a role, and crosby and malkings role is not to kill penalties. if you have watched any of our series you know that crosby can play defense with any forward out there.

#4......... youth vs experience. our entire season was filled with adversity losing crosby and fleury..... they held up just fine...... youth does not care that drake is 39 and chelios is 62, they are full of ignorance and cockiness that comes with youth........ but drake and chelios will certainly feel their age as games and the series go forward.

#5......... fleury is the better goalie based on agility and skill. correct he has not seen the rubber detroit will throw but FLEURY CAN STEAL A GAME FOR THE PENS, where osgood cannot. (in my humble opinion of course)

#6...... the sun will rise, you will pay taxes, and the pens will be outshot....... such is the way of the world...... but our goals per shot percentage is lights out ....... if they DO throw pucks at the net like they should..... osgood will be replace by hasek in short order.......

should be one heck of a series........ cant wait to watch it............. good luck

1. Or the Pens will pay. PKs are like PPs for us.

2. Ryan Whitney will never be top 5 in Norris voting. Ever. Gonchar is not a Norris Finalist.

3. Z and Pavel are better.

4. Ignorance and cockiness leads to mistakes not triumph.

5. Fleury will have to steal a game or two. Osgood won't.

6. Conklin will make an appearance this series. Book it.

[ThreeRiversFan 0]

OK.....long post coming up. It's been kind of brewing ever since both teams were up 3-0, so bear with me.

First, some truths in the "credit where credit is due" category.

- The Penguins are the first team the Wings have faced these playoffs that we're not obviously better than. That is a fact. And the same is true in reverse. These are, without any doubt in my mind, the two best teams in the league. So any prediction that ends with "in 5" means you're only fooling yourself.

- The Pittsburgh offense is scary talented. They have four players who have produced over a point a game these playoffs. Focus on Crosby and Malkin, and Malone and Hossa will burn you. All their centers can score and make plays.

- The Penguins are nothing if not rested, having breezed through the first three rounds. They will be supremely confident. This can work both ways. Confidence can put you in the best frame of mind, but it can also disappear quick if you find it's not as easy as you thought....and once you fall off that hill it's nigh-impossible to get back up in a 7 game series.

Now, to the myths:

#1: The Penguins have an especially lethal power play.

The Penguins have a very good and talented power play. It is top-5 in the league. The Wings were fortunately to play against teams in the first round with absolutely rotten power plays, and Dallas was mediocre. But the numbers don't lie: the Penguins' power play in the regular season was 20.4%. The Wings: 20.7%. During the playoffs the Penguins have been at 25%, but the sample size is too small - take away just two goals and they're right there with the Wings again. The Penguins have a good power play but it is far from lethal, and it will be sorely tested against the Wings' superior penalty killing, which unlike most teams, challenges the offense all the way through neutral ice.

#2: The Penguins defense is on par with, or even better than, the Wings'.

The most incorrect of anything said about the Pens. Their defense is much improved - they gave up 100 fewer goals than they did two years ago and have moved into the realm of respectability. And they've done even better in the playoffs, but again: the playoffs are far too small a sample size for this.

Consider the personnel:

Lidstrom is better than Gonchar

Rafalski is better than Whitney

Kronwall is better than Orpik

Stuart is better than Gill

Chelios is better than Scuderi

Letang is the only one I'd give an edge to. All the way down at 6th defenseman. Forwards? Kris Draper is a Selke winner. Datsyuk or Zetterberg are finalists this year - one of them should win.

Pittsburgh is a good defensive team. Detroit is a great one.

#3. Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin are a better duo than Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg.

Higher scoring and younger? Obviously. But again: which two are nominated for the Selke Trophy, and which two are not? To be a better player instead of a better scorer, you must be well-rounded. Malkin saw an average of 48 seconds of shorthanded ice time per game this season; Crosby, 42 seconds. Datsyuk had 1:47 of SH ice time per game; Zetterberg, 2:09. In the playoffs, Crosby has dropped to just 9 seconds per game. This tells me that the Penguins generally only put their golden boys on the ice during the last few seconds of a penalty kill so they can be out there right away. Datsyuk and Zetterberg are penalty killers. To know that drawing a penalty takes the Penguins' best players off the ice - that is a huge advantage.

#4. The Wings have experience, but the Pens are younger and hungrier and that is an advantage.

Dallas Drake is 39 and now has his first crack at the Cup - you can bet he's gonna be fired up. Appearing in Gatorade ads with your best I Are Serious Cat face does not make you hungrier.

#5. The Pens have the advantage in net because Marc-Andre Fleury is playing his lights out.

This one and the defense thing are mutually exclusive and it's funny on the semi-rare occasion someone tries to bring them both up at once. So Chris Osgood's numbers are because the team in front of him is playing so well, but Fleury's are not.....yet the Pens defense is better than the Wings. Hm.

In any case, the Avs and Stars were both said to have a tremendous advantage in net. This clearly did not materialize as the Wings shelled both Theodore and Turco into oblivion. The Wings play a style designed to make the opposing goalie see as many shots as possible, which Fleury has not seen. I see nothing that sets Fleury apart from the other two, other than perhaps lacking Turco's JLA albatross. So I see no reason why the outcome should be any different.

#6. Coming back from 3 down in Game 1 against the Rangers is enough adversity to prepare the Baby Pens for what they're going to face in the finals.

ROFLCOPTER.

OK, that one was only proposed by a guy who was tilting and on his way to bannination. But still. I sure hope nobody actually believed it.

Finish up with a stat that should make Pens fans nervous: SOG differential. For the Pens: +4.4 SPG in the playoffs...but only +1.2 after the Ottawa series. For the Wings: +12.7, +10.5 after Nashville. Point being: not only do the Wings play a very, very different style of play than the Pens are used to seeing, they do it very, very well. No team will ever win a 7 game series by giving up 10 extra shots per game. Even with a save percentage as gaudy as Fleury's, that's like a free extra goal.

Wings in 6.

Well thought out and well stated...kudos to the OP...

fans from both teams will think differently on many of these points...as they should...

This will be played out on the ice....I cant wait for it to start

[Echolalia 2,961]

But, oh my.. Pittsburgh scored on 10.6% of their shots, good enough for 3rd in the league. While Detroit only converted 8.9%.. 21st in the league.

We make up for that statistic by out-shooting our opponent by 15 shots a game.

['33' 0]

1. Or the Pens will pay. PKs are like PPs for us. - YOU ARE A JOKE. SERIOUSLY.

2. Ryan Whitney will never be top 5 in Norris voting. Ever. Gonchar is not a Norris Finalist. - SO?

3. Z and Pavel are better. - THAN WHAT? MORROW AND RIBEIRO?

4. Ignorance and cockiness leads to mistakes not triumph. - LIKE THE POSTERS ON THIS BOARD?

5. Fleury will have to steal a game or two. Osgood won't. - IGNORANCE AND COCKINESS.

6. Conklin will make an appearance this series. Book it. - GAME 5 WHEN THE PENS ARE WINNING BY 4.

['33' 0]

We make up for that statistic by out-shooting our opponent by 15 shots a game.

It's cause the Wings play in that Uber-weak Western Conference..

[Echolalia 2,961]

It's cause the Wings play in that Uber-weak Western Conference..

The West is full of great teams, the East is full of great individuals

[tazzer82 0]

Faceoffs.. blah.

In the regualr season, Detroit was #1 in the league, Pittsburgh was dead last.

But, oh my.. Pittsburgh scored on 10.6% of their shots, good enough for 3rd in the league. While Detroit only converted 8.9%.. 21st in the league.

No doubt you will win the faceoffs, we don't need them. We will get the puck one way or another, we always do.. and when we do decide to quite being pretty with the passing, we will score.

Hasek will be your starter by game 4.

Dom is done for the season. Ozzie has made excellent saves all series long, and kept games close or tied when needed. Last night, the game could have been 4-3 or even tied had Oz not made some big saves in the 3rd alone. Get the puck one way or another? Good luck to the Pens with that one, the Wings love playing with the puck, so get used to it. Your boys are going to have circles skated around them, and then the frustration will set in, led by Captain Kid.

Fleury doesn't seem to like people around his crease, we'll see how long it takes for him to get rattled and lose his cool with Homer Cleary and Franzen(if he plays) in his face.

[esteef 2,679]

What about dispelling the myth that Crosby is not a Queen?!!!!

[reggiedunlop 0]

Time to argue.

1.) Our PK is best in the playoffs, sure you guys have a good player play, but if Malkin decides to make those flashy blind passes Franzen and Zetterberg will make him pay.

2.) Gonchar doesnt deserve that nomination, if Zubov is healthy for even 15 more games this season he would be there. Whitney will never ever win a Norris. Orpik hits hard, Stuart hits hard. Stuart is a better defenceman, having a shutdown defenceman who is slow is useless, see big Ole' Derian. That's what Dallas said and it didnt happen, good luck forechecking our d-men.

3.) Hossa is a dynamic offensive player and a good back checker, will never win a Selke. He doesnt do enough.

4.) You wont be saying that when Drake is running all your d-men. Experience is key even if you dont want to believe it.

5.) Explain to me how he is? Osgood was better in the regular season, he's been better in the playoffs (2 more wins by Fleury, I wish we had played Ottawa!). He cant steal a game? Must not have watched most of our games then.

6.) :lol: Hasek will not play, the Penguins will not get to Ozzie like that.

Also, there isnt alot you can say about faceoffs. Crosby is your best guy, and his is somewhere in the 40's. After that is Staal, Talbot and Malkin. It'll be hard to generate shots when the puck is on the Wings stick all game.

wow, you offend easily ha ha......... how dare that mean penguin guy question my mighty redwings :-) fleury had the better save percentage.......osgood better gaa....... so at best, i might allow a wash.

i hope you continue to underestimate brooks orpik. i also hope malkin is done with the blind passes. (got me on that one).....you did not deserve ottawa in the playoffs, you got to play st louis columbus and las angeles ALL YEAR.........

[Elshupacabra 0]

wow, you offend easily ha ha......... how dare that mean penguin guy question my mighty redwings :-) fleury had the better save percentage.......osgood better gaa....... so at best, i might allow a wash.

i hope you continue to underestimate brooks orpik. i also hope malkin is done with the blind passes. (got me on that one).....you did not deserve ottawa in the playoffs, you got to play st louis columbus and las angeles ALL YEAR.........

because they're so much worse then the Islanders, Thrashers and Lightning?

Edited May 21, 2008 by Elshupacabra

[Icteria virens 11]

- The Penguins are the first team the Wings have faced these playoffs that we're not obviously better than. That is a fact.

actually sweetie, that's not a fact, that's your opinion.

Wings in 5

[Graybeard 0]

I love the part where he says the Pens will get the puck one way or the other. Please tell us how? We'll win the face offs handily and your players +/- averages are abysmal compared to ours. And somehow you'll just magically get the puck. You may wish you could blow off an important part of the game just because your team doesn't compare in the category, but it's now that easy.

[ThreeRiversFan 0]

What about dispelling the myth that Crosby is not a Queen?!!!!

now THAT is insightful posting!!!!

Wow....you are AWESOME!!

[reggiedunlop 0]

because they're so much worse then the Islanders, Thrashers and Lightning?

details :-)

[betterREDthandead 58]

actually sweetie, that's not a fact, that's your opinion.

Wings in 5

Whatever you say, sugarpie honeykisses

[pazzloski 7]

why does it seem that the wings fans on here have facts to back up everything that they are saying and the pittsburgh fans reply with: crosby is god and malkin is close to it.

wings in five.

[esteef 2,679]

now THAT is insightful posting!!!!

Wow....you are AWESOME!!

[reggiedunlop 0]

why does it seem that the wings fans on here have facts to back up everything that they are saying and the pittsburgh fans reply with: crosby is god and malkin is close to it.

wings in five.

have not seen anyone write that yet, but now that you mention it......... i see crosbly as more of a moses figure, not god himself and perhaps malkin could be like an arch bishop....say what you want, they are freakin 19 and 20 and play the game pretty well

[cirov19 1]

BRDT, your post pretty much summed up every single thing I have been thinking for the past week, but better.

For everybody else... :

Faceoffs.. blah.

In the regualr season, Detroit was #1 in the league, Pittsburgh was dead last.

But, oh my.. Pittsburgh scored on 10.6% of their shots, good enough for 3rd in the league. While Detroit only converted 8.9%.. 21st in the league.

No doubt you will win the faceoffs, we don't need them. We will get the puck one way or another, we always do.. and when we do decide to quite being pretty with the passing, we will score.

Hasek will be your starter by game 4.

... I love cocky Penguin fans.

Edited May 21, 2008 by cirov19

[NHLrules? 32]

Didnt one penguin fan say the pretty passing plays stop in the playoffs, the penguins have figured out how to play tough thats why they are good?

Another one says the pretty passing play will result in a score once the peinguins get the puck "in some way or another"?

Which is it?