Dispelling some myths: the Pittsburgh Penguins

[dw185 0]

If the wings can hold it together, and they have done a fairly decent job so far, then i don't see why they can't take out the pens in 6 or better. I think the separation of the conferences during the regular season really forces them to turn a blind eye and regular season statistics really don't match up since neither detroit or pittsburgh played many of the same teams on a regular enough basis to compare the stats.

I think the wings could be a far more superior team since pittsburgh really never played any challenging teams in the east. Most of the terrible teams are in the east this season. Look how much turmoil it must have taken for philadelphia and pittsburgh, the two worst teams in the league a couple years ago, to make it to the conference finals. I would have to say that that conference has had some huge shakeups, and not in a good way.

Now let me say that since the regular season are utterly incomparable, that this could also slice the other way. The pens play a little bit different style of game that what the wings are used to and could really throw the wings for a loop. That also goes both ways.

Either way, i already like the way this series shapes up more than the lame anaheim v ottawa series last year. Utterly horrendus finals... Maybe i'm a biased wings fan, or maybe i'm just ready for some real hockey where some idiot like pronger isn't out there taking cheap shots every other shift. Crosby may be a big whiner, but he can play some hockey. Get ready to make excuses for his poor performance pittsburgh fans!

[HeyNow71871929 0]

If the wings can hold it together, and they have done a fairly decent job so far, then i don't see why they can't take out the pens in 6 or better. I think the separation of the conferences during the regular season really forces them to turn a blind eye and regular season statistics really don't match up since neither detroit or pittsburgh played many of the same teams on a regular enough basis to compare the stats.

I think the wings could be a far more superior team since pittsburgh really never played any challenging teams in the east. Most of the terrible teams are in the east this season. Look how much turmoil it must have taken for philadelphia and pittsburgh, the two worst teams in the league a couple years ago, to make it to the conference finals. I would have to say that that conference has had some huge shakeups, and not in a good way.

Now let me say that since the regular season are utterly incomparable, that this could also slice the other way. The pens play a little bit different style of game that what the wings are used to and could really throw the wings for a loop. That also goes both ways.

Either way, i already like the way this series shapes up more than the lame anaheim v ottawa series last year. Utterly horrendus finals... Maybe i'm a biased wings fan, or maybe i'm just ready for some real hockey where some idiot like pronger isn't out there taking cheap shots every other shift. Crosby may be a big whiner, but he can play some hockey. Get ready to make excuses for his poor performance pittsburgh fans!

And the Wings have played challenging teams in the West?.... PLEASE.

[Graybeard 0]

Deleted. Multi tasking and responded in the wrong thread.

Edited May 21, 2008 by Graybeard

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

And the Wings have played challenging teams in the West?.... PLEASE.

Dallas were. You cant say the Pens have played a great team yet, Ottawa were banged up and playing terrible. The Rangers couldnt score save for Jammy. The Flyers were playing without there top 2 defenceman, and there next 2 defenceman were at 30-40%.

This will be their challenge, as it will be ours.

[fastballspecial 0]

All these threads have been:

Red Wings fan: Blah blah.

Penguins fan: oh yeah!?!? well, blah blah!!!

Red Wings fan: pffff, blah. Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

Penguins fan: ROFLCOPTERRIFIC! Blah. Crosby and Malkin. Blah.

Red Wings fan: hmmm....

Penguins fan: hmmm....

Edited May 21, 2008 by fastballspecial

[HeyNow71871929 0]

Dallas were. You cant say the Pens have played a great team yet, Ottawa were banged up and playing terrible. The Rangers couldnt score save for Jammy. The Flyers were playing without there top 2 defenceman, and there next 2 defenceman were at 30-40%.

This will be their challenge, as it will be ours.

I think the New York Rangers were a very good team and a very formidable opponent. That's the team the Pens fans feared playing the most going into the playoffs. They have a goalie who is in the running for the Vezina Trophy, a defense which was one of the tops in the NHL. And their offense had a lot of punch. They had 3 lines that can score against you. And just because the Penguins made that series look like a cakewalk doesn't mean that the Rangers weren't a formidable opponent. They had just as good of a chance at winning the cup as any team before we beat them in the Semifinals.

Edited May 21, 2008 by HeyNow71871929

[pits200 0]

First time poster, but as my name probably gives away. I am a Pens fan...

Let me drop a disclaimer first and say that I have read about 50% of this post, some of it being B.S because of team pride, some of it being very informative because I won't claim to know the ins and outs of the Wings. So if I make a pont that has been beaten to death, I apologize.

1.) Hal Gill is hilarious, his nickname that he got in Toronto I think was (Skillz Gillz) which is a bit of sarcasm cause we all know he has none.

2.) The most beat to death thing on these forums has been "Our lines/depth is better than yours" I am going to be biased but I truely believe the Pens have the better top 3 lines. If the Wings split up Dats & Zett from the 1st line, that gives the Pens an advantage on the 1st line.

If the Wings keep Dats & Zett together, then the 1st line is a wash for both teams but then the Pens have a decent advantage on the 2nd line.

GO Pens.

[betterREDthandead 58]

I think the New York Rangers were a very good team and a very formidable opponent. That's the team the Pens fans feared playing the most going into the playoffs. They have a goalie who is in the running for the Vezina Trophy, a defense which was one of the tops in the NHL. And their offense had a lot of punch. They had 3 lines that can score against you. And just because the Penguins made that series look like a cakewalk doesn't mean that the Rangers weren't a formidable opponent. They had just as good of a chance at winning the cup as any team before we beat them in the Semifinals.

I think you were right to worry about Lundqvist, he's a very good goalie, but the Rangers' offense is one of the weakest in the league. 25th in scoring during the regular season.

[lets go pavel 2]

First time poster, but as my name probably gives away. I am a Pens fan...

Let me drop a disclaimer first and say that I have read about 50% of this post, some of it being B.S because of team pride, some of it being very informative because I won't claim to know the ins and outs of the Wings. So if I make a pont that has been beaten to death, I apologize.

1.) Hal Gill is hilarious, his nickname that he got in Toronto I think was (Skillz Gillz) which is a bit of sarcasm cause we all know he has none.

2.) The most beat to death thing on these forums has been "Our lines/depth is better than yours" I am going to be biased but I truely believe the Pens have the better top 3 lines. If the Wings split up Dats & Zett from the 1st line, that gives the Pens an advantage on the 1st line.

If the Wings keep Dats & Zett together, then the 1st line is a wash for both teams but then the Pens have a decent advantage on the 2nd line.

GO Pens.

This I agree with ... especially without Franzen, we don't have a second line that can match yours ... to be honest, I don't know who's on your 3rd and 4th lines, so I won't bother comparing them ... however, I will counter (as many already have) that our defense is better through all 3 pairings ...

[betterREDthandead 58]

First time poster, but as my name probably gives away. I am a Pens fan...

Let me drop a disclaimer first and say that I have read about 50% of this post, some of it being B.S because of team pride, some of it being very informative because I won't claim to know the ins and outs of the Wings. So if I make a pont that has been beaten to death, I apologize.

1.) Hal Gill is hilarious, his nickname that he got in Toronto I think was (Skillz Gillz) which is a bit of sarcasm cause we all know he has none.

2.) The most beat to death thing on these forums has been "Our lines/depth is better than yours" I am going to be biased but I truely believe the Pens have the better top 3 lines. If the Wings split up Dats & Zett from the 1st line, that gives the Pens an advantage on the 1st line.

If the Wings keep Dats & Zett together, then the 1st line is a wash for both teams but then the Pens have a decent advantage on the 2nd line.

GO Pens.

Gill = Lilja. I think they are the same player.

Point #2. From an offensive standpoint, the Pens' 2nd, 3rd, and probably 4th lines are better than ours. However, Datsyuk and Zetterberg don't get broken up any more. Babcock tried that against Nashville on the road so as to create matchup problems and it failed. So for now, and probably for the series, they're together. Whether you like Crosby/Malkin or Datsyuk/Zetterberg as the top duo, there's absolutely no denying that Dats and Z are two of the top four forwards in the series. Two of the top four beats one of the top four, so, not a wash. Advantage Wings on the top line.

[pits200 0]

This I agree with ... especially without Franzen, we don't have a second line that can match yours ... to be honest, I don't know who's on your 3rd and 4th lines, so I won't bother comparing them ... however, I will counter (as many already have) that our defense is better through all 3 pairings ...

Yup, I'll give you that about the defense. But like I keep talking with people about, certain teams ask defensemen to do different things. People who judge whose defense is better based on points aren't really making a fair comparison. The Pens only use 1 or 2 defensemen as offensive weapons and hence they don't have the amazing stats that some of the Wings do. Its no excuse, I still feel Detroits def guys are better, but I feel when it comes to just straight defense and stopping goals, its a closer comparison than when taking the guys in an overall comparison.

All I want from our defense is to play solid in front of the net and not give up any turnovers while creating outlet passes. If they can do that, our forwards and wingers are good enough to make up for the lack of help behind them.

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

Gill = Lilja. I think they are the same player.

Point #2. From an offensive standpoint, the Pens' 2nd, 3rd, and probably 4th lines are better than ours. However, Datsyuk and Zetterberg don't get broken up any more. Babcock tried that against Nashville on the road so as to create matchup problems and it failed. So for now, and probably for the series, they're together. Whether you like Crosby/Malkin or Datsyuk/Zetterberg as the top duo, there's absolutely no denying that Dats and Z are two of the top four forwards in the series. Two of the top four beats one of the top four, so, not a wash. Advantage Wings on the top line.

False

our second line gets blown out of the water but our third and foruth line are far superior to theirs. there first line is slightly better offensivily, however dats and z will work out just fine.

[pits200 0]

Gill = Lilja. I think they are the same player.

Point #2. From an offensive standpoint, the Pens' 2nd, 3rd, and probably 4th lines are better than ours. However, Datsyuk and Zetterberg don't get broken up any more. Babcock tried that against Nashville on the road so as to create matchup problems and it failed. So for now, and probably for the series, they're together. Whether you like Crosby/Malkin or Datsyuk/Zetterberg as the top duo, there's absolutely no denying that Dats and Z are two of the top four forwards in the series. Two of the top four beats one of the top four, so, not a wash. Advantage Wings on the top line.

Hmm, you don't think Hossa(19 playoff pts)/Crosby(21 playoff pts) match up with Dats(19 playoff pts)/Zett(21 playoff pts)? But don't forget, the Pens have played 2 less games than the Wings. So Crosby(1.5pts/game)/Hossa(1.4pts/game) Dats (1.2pts/game)/Zets(1.3pts/game). Also, your guys are on the ice much longer. I see that happening with the pens as they will definitely reduce the 4th lines time in this series and increase their first two lines time.

I know about all the stats, the +/- of your guys, the backchecking, their strength. But I can't imagine how Hossa/Crosby dont match your first line. Thats all

[BlueMonk 102]

I heard an interesting take on the faceoff issue from Denis Potvin on XM 204 Home Ice this morning. With the Wings being a puck possession team and being best at winning faceoffs while the Pens have been the worst, it seems like a big advantage to Detroit. But Potvin points out that if the Wings win a draw in their defensive zone, it gives the Pens a chance to send their forwards in to forecheck and create pressure on the Wings' defense. Interesting point, and I'm anxious to see just how that aspect of the matchup plays out.

[Pensfan 0]

Hmm, you don't think Hossa(19 playoff pts)/Crosby(21 playoff pts) match up with Dats(19 playoff pts)/Zett(21 playoff pts)? But don't forget, the Pens have played 2 less games than the Wings. So Crosby(1.5pts/game)/Hossa(1.4pts/game) Dats (1.2pts/game)/Zets(1.3pts/game). Also, your guys are on the ice much longer. I see that happening with the pens as they will definitely reduce the 4th lines time in this series and increase their first two lines time.

I know about all the stats, the +/- of your guys, the backchecking, their strength. But I can't imagine how Hossa/Crosby dont match your first line. Thats all

Please knock this s*** off. The Pens had an easier playoff run then the Wings, simple as that. You seem lost here, let me guide you home. Click here.

Edited May 22, 2008 by Pensfan

[pits200 0]

False

our second line gets blown out of the water but our third and foruth line are far superior to theirs. there first line is slightly better offensivily, however dats and z will work out just fine.

I won't claim to know much about the Wings 3rd line, so I will just say that the Pens have Staal who is 19 years old and a beast. He is a mini malkin with phenomenal defensive skills.

1st line-wash

2nd line-pens

3rd line-not sure bout the wings line

4th line-Wings

Nice thing about the 4th line is that they don't need to be on the ice that long, just long enough to give the 3 lines above them a rest.

[Shaman 713]

Yup, I'll give you that about the defense. But like I keep talking with people about, certain teams ask defensemen to do different things. People who judge whose defense is better based on points aren't really making a fair comparison. The Pens only use 1 or 2 defensemen as offensive weapons and hence they don't have the amazing stats that some of the Wings do. Its no excuse, I still feel Detroits def guys are better, but I feel when it comes to just straight defense and stopping goals, its a closer comparison than when taking the guys in an overall comparison.

All I want from our defense is to play solid in front of the net and not give up any turnovers while creating outlet passes. If they can do that, our forwards and wingers are good enough to make up for the lack of help behind them.

The most amazing Stats our D have is +/- Lids has been the top defense men in that category for a long time., then we have Hank and Dats who lead any top line in +/- rating, I think that the first lines cancel out offensively, but, Detroit is 100x better on the front 3 defensively then Pittsburgh, and thats why our top line is better all around. Then our second D pairing will beat the hell out of you, no joke, watch kronwall (Hes leading D in scoring) and Stuart in any game and you will see they aren't just there to get points but to put the others team second line off their game by frustrating them with huge hits.

So heres what I see, Lids keeping the puck away from Sid, and Kronwall putting malkin into the boards which will piss him off and he will take undisciplined penalties. And Dats and Zetts having more points then Hossa/Crosby not because they are hugely better then them offensively but because they are so good In the Defensive zone.

[HeyNow71871929 0]

Gill = Lilja. I think they are the same player.

I don't understand this at all. Unlike Lilja, Hal Gill plays and plays a lot. He is a key member of our PK and 5 on 5 defense. He's been an absolute horse since we acquired hm at the trade deadline. Granted, he has struggled mightily thru his years with the Maple Leafs, but barely none of it has been transferred over to the Penguins when we acquired him. You have not watched enough Penguins hockey to make such a biased opinion. Hal Gill, though he is slow, is an absolute stalwart for us and besides Gonchar, our most key defenseman in this series. He was terrific for us down the stretch and Gill also has a lot to do with how great our D has been in the playoffs.

Edited May 22, 2008 by HeyNow71871929

[pits200 0]

Please knock this s*** off. The Pens had an easier playoff run then the Wings, simple as that. You seem lost here, let me guide you home. Click here.

Thanks for your input, I'll be sure to ignore your pointless posts from now on, so thanks.

How are you going to hold a teams schedule against them as a liability. They can only prove their merit based on the teams they're playing and these are the cards they were dealt. No matter how bad these playoff teams were, its hard enough to go 12-2 in the regular season against scrub teams, its only that much harder in the playoffs.

Even if you played all last place teams for 14 games most clubs would be happy to go 12-2 let alone the weakest playoff teams.

[CrossoverThrash 0]

I don't understand this at all. Unlike Lilja, Hal Gill plays and plays a lot. He is a key member of our PK and 5 on 5 defense. He's been an absolute horse since we acquired hm at the trade deadline. Granted, he has struggled mightily thru his years with the Maple Leafs, but barely none of it has been transferred over to the Penguins when we acquired him. You have not watched enough Penguins hockey to make such a biased opinion. Hal Gill, though he is slow, is an absolute stalwart for us and besides Gonchar, our most key defenseman in this series. He was terrific for us down the stretch and Gill also has a lot to do with how great our D has been in the playoffs.

No matter how good hes been as a pen he was terrible as a leaf and no matter what will be a pylon for datsyuk and the gang to deke around, maybe hell be able to compete somewhat against draper maccarty or drake but expect him to play against our grinders because it would be a joke to put him up against dats or zetts

[betterREDthandead 58]

Hmm, you don't think Hossa(19 playoff pts)/Crosby(21 playoff pts) match up with Dats(19 playoff pts)/Zett(21 playoff pts)? But don't forget, the Pens have played 2 less games than the Wings. So Crosby(1.5pts/game)/Hossa(1.4pts/game) Dats (1.2pts/game)/Zets(1.3pts/game). Also, your guys are on the ice much longer. I see that happening with the pens as they will definitely reduce the 4th lines time in this series and increase their first two lines time.

I know about all the stats, the +/- of your guys, the backchecking, their strength. But I can't imagine how Hossa/Crosby dont match your first line. Thats all

I think that Dats (97 points) and Zetterberg (92 points) match up nicely against Crosby (72 points with injuries) and Hossa (66 points). I don't care that Hossa was a Thrasher most of the year....that is a huge gap.

our second line gets blown out of the water but our third and foruth line are far superior to theirs.

Oh, come on. The third line is Draper, Drake, and Sammy, as it stood in Game 6. Better than a sharp stick in the eye....not better than the Pens' third line.

I don't know who the Pens have on their fourth line.

[pits200 0]

I heard an interesting take on the faceoff issue from Denis Potvin on XM 204 Home Ice this morning. With the Wings being a puck possession team and being best at winning faceoffs while the Pens have been the worst, it seems like a big advantage to Detroit. But Potvin points out that if the Wings win a draw in their defensive zone, it gives the Pens a chance to send their forwards in to forecheck and create pressure on the Wings' defense. Interesting point, and I'm anxious to see just how that aspect of the matchup plays out.

Thats actually a really good point that I didnt think about. I don't want to have to wait 3 more days to find out, this is torture.

[HeyNow71871929 0]

Thanks for your input, I'll be sure to ignore your pointless posts from now on, so thanks.

How are you going to hold a teams schedule against them as a liability. They can only prove their merit based on the teams they're playing and these are the cards they were dealt. No matter how bad these playoff teams were, its hard enough to go 12-2 in the regular season against scrub teams, its only that much harder in the playoffs.

Even if you played all last place teams for 14 games most clubs would be happy to go 12-2 let alone the weakest playoff teams.

I think Pensfan was sarcastic, thereby mocking all the people that think the Penguins had an easy time getting to the Finals.

[betterREDthandead 58]

I heard an interesting take on the faceoff issue from Denis Potvin on XM 204 Home Ice this morning. With the Wings being a puck possession team and being best at winning faceoffs while the Pens have been the worst, it seems like a big advantage to Detroit. But Potvin points out that if the Wings win a draw in their defensive zone, it gives the Pens a chance to send their forwards in to forecheck and create pressure on the Wings' defense. Interesting point, and I'm anxious to see just how that aspect of the matchup plays out.

I'd still rather win the faceoff.

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

I think that Dats (97 points) and Zetterberg (92 points) match up nicely against Crosby (72 points with injuries) and Hossa (66 points). I don't care that Hossa was a Thrasher most of the year....that is a huge gap.

Oh, come on. The third line is Draper, Drake, and Sammy, as it stood in Game 6. Better than a sharp stick in the eye....not better than the Pens' third line.

I don't know who the Pens have on their fourth line.

Our third line isnt meant to score goals. its meant to prevent them. Stall will be better than draper someday, but just because he can score dosent mean he is in the same water of Draper defensivily