Conn Smythe Trophy Discussion

[DeuxEx 0]

1. Osgood

2. Zetterberg

3. Datsyuk

It's impossible for me to ignore Osgood's numbers. Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Lidstrom etc. have been great but Osgood's numbers are awesome. Let's not forget that the Red Wings didn't look so dominant until he came in; he has provided a sense of calm that has allowed all the Wings to be more effective.

[PaVel DaTsYuK fan13 0]

Zetterberg or Osgood are both fine calls. I'd expect it to go to Zetterberg considering how many lopsided scores the wings have had. Dats also deserves honorable mention.

[ifonlyicouldskate 11]

In my Drunken state last night at the game with 3 rows of pens fans in front of me. I tried to start a sammy for Conn Smythe chant, but couldn't find any supporters.

I can't figure out why any pens fan would buy that blue jersey?????????????

[HenryMalredo 2]

Find me an example of another goaltender with numbers like Ozzie's making it to the Cup Finals and not winning the Conn Smythe since the inception of the trophy.

Has it even happened?

Eva, remember that those involved in the NHL aren't the most stat-friendly people around. Ozzie has put up great numbers, but he hasn't played lights out great, which is usually what it takes for a goalie to win the Smythe. I'll almost guarantee Zetterberg gets it.

[gcom007 1,465]

I think at this point if the Wings win, it's definitely between Zetterberg and Osgood. How this series goes will determine that. If Zetterberg keeps it up, no question he'll be a favorite. Not much to it. You can't ignore with his play and numbers. If Osgood continues to play great, I think he's got as good of a shot as well, maybe more so still. They can't ignore how much stronger the team has played since he took over the starting role. I think Pavel is the dark horse here. I think he's made more of a case for it then it appears. If he has an amazing finals, he'll have to be considered. I think Franzen's ruled himself out ultimately due to injury and the teams success without him.

edit: I think I'm comfortable saying this right now actually: I think we win it, right now it's Osgood. He's got the same kind of great numbers as Zetts proportionally and it's obvious how much of an impact he's had considering where they were at. Zetts wouldn't have gotten the chance to play as well as he has had Osgood not stepped in and played great. So Zetts is going to have to have an insane finals to win it I think. Not taking anything away from him and not saying he can't, just retracting a bit and saying maybe Osgood has more of an edge than I first thought.

Edited May 25, 2008 by gcom007

[gcom007 1,465]

Eva, remember that those involved in the NHL aren't the most stat-friendly people around. Ozzie has put up great numbers, but he hasn't played lights out great, which is usually what it takes for a goalie to win the Smythe. I'll almost guarantee Zetterberg gets it.

Totally true, but Osgood's got the buzz that the writers are loving now too. Osgood articles are all over the place. He's the feel good story of the year really. That combined with his numbers, record and steadying effect certainly work in his favor. Not saying Zetts doesn't have a damn good case, just saying...personally, I care more about the silver bowl...

...but deep down I'm still pulling for Datsyuk...

[gcom007 1,465]

Eva, remember that those involved in the NHL aren't the most stat-friendly people around. Ozzie has put up great numbers, but he hasn't played lights out great, which is usually what it takes for a goalie to win the Smythe. I'll almost guarantee Zetterberg gets it.

Totally true, but Osgood's got the buzz that the writers are loving now too. Osgood articles are all over the place. He's the feel good story of the year really. That combined with his numbers, record and steadying effect certainly work in his favor. Not saying Zetts doesn't have a damn good case, just saying...personally, I care more about the silver bowl...

...but deep down I'm still pulling for Datsyuk...

[norrisnick 1]

If Osgood keeps his numbers where they are, and DOESN'T win it, it's a joke.

I can further back this up:

Only one Conn Smythe winning goaltender has ever posted numbers anywhere close to what Osgood is doing. That was Giguere in 2003. And Ozzie has better numbers all-around. If Ozzie keeps his numbers close to where they are right now, he wins it. The only chance of someone taking it away was Franzen and his goals...and Johan just missed six huge games, four of which the Wings won.

Don't forget the guy on the other side. Unless we keep blowing him up, Fleury has ridiculous numbers as well with half the defensive support Oz gets. So it's not as unprecedented as you make it sound.

And you mention Franzen and his goals. Z is right there. Sure with extra games but Z has been a force. It's unbelievably close between Z and Oz, but Z has just been unreal in every aspect so far.

17 games

12 goals

10 assists

+15

4 PP goals

4 PP assists

2 SH goals

3 SH assists

3 GW goals

92 shots

Z will hold the playoff scoring record for the Wings. The last guy to do so beat out Oz for the Conn Smythe...

[Kira 451]

In my opinion, Datsyuk has been the best player for the Wings throughout the playoffs. He might not show up on the stat sheet every night, but he's been consistently great at both ends of the rink in every game so far! The physical part of his game that he's showing this year is really opening some eyes.

Zetterberg could easily win it though, because he's leading in goals and pts, for now, and he has been right up there with Pavel for great play at both ends of the ice. It's hard to pick between the two of them.

Ozzie definitely deserves to be mentioned, but I think it will go to D or Z, IF the Wings win the series.

I agree with you Manny. You cannot discount Pasha for all those intangibles he brings to the game. So he isn't on the score sheet every game, just look at all the things he does under the radar. Six hits last night to lead the team, how many takeaways and back checks, how many plays does he set up the score without getting an assist...it's all these things that don't show up on the score sheet that make his game so important to the cause. And if you doubt for a moment that he wants this, you have only to see the fire in those eyes, the passion he's playing with and the beating he's taking. I loved watching him put Sid the Kid in his place last night.

Say what you will, but I cannot think that Pasha doesn't deserve some high consideration. In fact, I saw on one site that he was #1 in their watch list for Smythe consideration. Take it for what it's worth, but someone is definitely watching the same game you and I are.

[blikst 1]

1. Zetterberg (He just seem to have everything going for him.)

2. Osgood (He's just been great.)

3. Dats (If he continues play great on the road he might very well get it.)

.

small gap

.

4. Franzen (If he comes back soon and scores 1-2 goal a game he might win it.)

5. Lidstrom (Sure is a candidate, but I don't see him getting the nod.)

Edited May 26, 2008 by blikst

[blikst 1]

Sorry double post.

Edited May 26, 2008 by blikst

[eva unit zero 271]

Eva, remember that those involved in the NHL aren't the most stat-friendly people around. Ozzie has put up great numbers, but he hasn't played lights out great, which is usually what it takes for a goalie to win the Smythe. I'll almost guarantee Zetterberg gets it.

Zetterberg's numbers are not outlandish. Yes, he is the leading scorer, and the leading scorer often does not get the trophy. Osgood has easily the best numbers of any goaltender, and the Wings would have been at best a second round upset had they not inserted Osgood. Ozzie's presence changed the dynamic, and changed the team. His consistency and reliability gave them a boost that Hasek couldn't the way he was playing, and his calm demeanor helped the team stop panicking and start playing like they were capable of. That and for all the talk about how Marty Turco is like a third defenseman; Osgood is also one of the best puckhandling goaltenders in the league. That especially cannot be discounted for a team with a puck possession system.

Osgood is the team's MVP at this point, because he is the player who has had the greatest impact on the team's positive success. Ultimately, the Penguins' best candidate was probably Crosby, and if things continue the way they are, Crosby has no chance at it. It's virtually impossible for a losing player other than a goaltender to win the trophy; and even then, there have been times the losing goaltender probably deserved it and did not win it due to an amazing performance by a player on the winning team; John Vanbiesbrouck in 1996, for example.

[Reds4Life 51]

Zetterberg's numbers are not outlandish.

...

...

You do realize stats are not everything?

Ozzie has been awesome, but he did not have to steal a game. Best defense in the league is playing in front of him, that's why he will be overlooked once again. I am not saying he would not deserve it, but to say he is the only choice is ignorant.

Edited May 26, 2008 by Reds4Life

[eva unit zero 271]

You do realize stats are not everything?

Ozzie has been awesome, but he did not have to steal a game. Best defense in the league is playing in front of him, that's why he will be overlooked once again. I am not saying he would not deserve it, but to say he is the only choice is ignorant.

Stats are not everything, but they often play a factor in awards. The fact that Malkin is nominated for the Hart over Lidstrom proves that.

Zetterberg's numbers are not unusually good for the leading scorer of a Cup winner. Osgood's numbers ARE unusually good. That is my point; Osgood's numbers and play have been further outside of the norm than Zetterberg's.

[Reds4Life 51]

Stats are not everything, but they often play a factor in awards. The fact that Malkin is nominated for the Hart over Lidstrom proves that.

Zetterberg's numbers are not unusually good for the leading scorer of a Cup winner. Osgood's numbers ARE unusually good. That is my point; Osgood's numbers and play have been further outside of the norm than Zetterberg's.

Well, afaik Zetterbeg is 2 points away from tying record for most points by a Red Wing in one playoff run. I would say it is pretty good. If Hank won Conn Smythe, it would be totally deserved.

[eva unit zero 271]

Well, afaik Zetterbeg is 2 points away from tying record for most points by a Red Wing in one playoff run. I would say it is pretty good. If Hank won Conn Smythe, it would be totally deserved.

And Osgood is posting numbers better than any goaltender who has ever won the Smythe. Ever.

[betterREDthandead 58]

You do realize stats are not everything?

Ozzie has been awesome, but he did not have to steal a game. Best defense in the league is playing in front of him, that's why he will be overlooked once again. I am not saying he would not deserve it, but to say he is the only choice is ignorant.

But what, exactly, has Zetterberg done to "steal a game"?

I don't like the notion that Osgood isn't deserving because he hasn't stood out by "stealing a game"....yet a skater, one of 18, somehow has.

Yes, Hank's been fantastic. And yes, he's a very, very deserving candidate to lift the Conn Smythe. But Osgood's been phenomenal. And yes, he's won us games with his play. How about the breakaway stop on Dupuis with the score 0-0? How about the point-blank save on Liles against Colorado? If you go back and review the playoffs, you'll find plenty of big saves at big times that kept the Wings in position to go and win the game.

[Reds4Life 51]

But what, exactly, has Zetterberg done to "steal a game"?

I don't like the notion that Osgood isn't deserving because he hasn't stood out by "stealing a game"....yet a skater, one of 18, somehow has.

Yes, Hank's been fantastic. And yes, he's a very, very deserving candidate to lift the Conn Smythe. But Osgood's been phenomenal. And yes, he's won us games with his play. How about the breakaway stop on Dupuis with the score 0-0? How about the point-blank save on Liles against Colorado? If you go back and review the playoffs, you'll find plenty of big saves at big times that kept the Wings in position to go and win the game.

For example his short handed goal against Dallas in game 3? That was a gamebreaker.

If Ozzie wins, I will be surprised because he is overlooked his whole career despite posting great numbers. He was never considered elite goaltender, I don't know why. If he wins Conn Smythe I am gonna be really happy for him. It would be great satisfaction.

That said, Ozzie does not have so much work as other goaltenders because of our defense, but not every goalie can handle pressure like Ozzie.

Pavel has been awesome too, he would deserve Conn Smythe just like Ozzie or Hank. The same can be said about Lidas..

Zetterberg is frontrunner for me, but if anyone from our team wins it, it will be awesome!

[Chaldean 0]

4. Franzen (If he comes back soon and scores 1-2 goal a game he might win it.)

I disagree on this one. Even if he comes back and scores another 2-3 goals.

[Bannedforlife 403]

I can't believe Lidstrom isn't getting ANY mention as the front runner for this. Lids is and has been the engine driving our defensive machine since the late 90's and it's our defense that's made every comer look minor league so far. Doesn't anyone remember February?

[bellarina 1]

Can't pick just 1, what a team.

[marcaractac 3,963]

I can't believe Lidstrom isn't getting ANY mention as the front runner for this. Lids is and has been the engine driving our defensive machine since the late 90's and it's our defense that's made every comer look minor league so far. Doesn't anyone remember February?

I remember February. I also remember how we already lost 5 or so straight before Lids even got hurt. Lids is our best player, no doubt, and I agree he should be looked at for Conn Smythe as well. But it goies like this. If Franzen continues were he left off when he comes back tonight, hes gonna get it, even with the games he missed. He missed a rounds worth of hockey, but yet is STILL tied in the lead with goals. If he finishes the post season leading in goals, I'd say he gets it. Other than that, I think Zetterberg will get it, although I'd personally love to see Ozzie get it because he deserves it with all the doubts people have had in him.

Hell, whether we win the cup or not, I wouldn't be uprised to see a Pens player get it just because...

[dallas27 7]

For example his short handed goal against Dallas in game 3? That was a gamebreaker.

So the numerous 2-1 saves, breakaway saves, point blank saves, etc were not gamesavers for Osgood and the team?

A playoff game is ultimately decided by the goaltender. Osgood's numbers are simply too good.

[Chaldean 0]

And if Osgood gets another shutout (maybe even 2) then forget about it.

[digitaljohn88 4]

Ozzie's chances improve because we have so many performers up front. The skaters will split eachother's vote, and Oz will take the win.