Per Sipple, Wings are close to signing Lilja

[Anomalously 0]

Just a quick thought...

Holland keeps talking about having $13M to spend, worried about next year, focused on one-year deals. Likes his core. I think we've all debunked this myth that somehow we couldn't somehow swing another guy, even after Fil, Franzen and Z get paid. I think Holland is thinking long-term goaltending solution with the money that's obviously there but isn't getting spent long-term (yet).

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Honestly, I will never understand what management sees in Lilja. Obviously they know a lot more than I do, but why are they actually interested in bringing him back? Are Meech and Quincey really that bad or that far off that a POS like Lilja is still considered more valuable to the team?

Ugh, not a good way for me to start the work day, reading this news. Boo.

And you call yourself a hockey fight fan?

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Just a quick thought...

Holland keeps talking about having $13M to spend, worried about next year, focused on one-year deals. Likes his core. I think we've all debunked this myth that somehow we couldn't somehow swing another guy, even after Fil, Franzen and Z get paid. I think Holland is thinking long-term goaltending solution with the money that's obviously there but isn't getting spent long-term (yet).

Or hes thinking that hes going to be screwed over if he re-signs Flip, Franzen and Hank all before July 1st, 2009, and has serious tagging room issues to deal with, a la Anaheim.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I know I'm late in throwing in my 2 cents here, but here goes anyway.

For those that are all pissed off that Lilja maybe be re-signed, you really need to put things in perspective. While I agree that Lilja isn't a beast out there, and can't replace Stuart as the Wings 4th Dman, he's still a *solid* option for the bottom pairing, and fills holes rather decent. He's probably the best shot-blocker on the team and he can step in when the Wings need him. Lilja isn't going to get much of a raise, and the Wings have plenty of cap space (especially since he'll get a 1-year deal) for the upcoming season. It's just always a good idea to have enough Dman depth so your team isn't put in a situation like it was after the deadline in '07.

Couple that with the Wings ability to bring in a deadline Dman based on where they are at come February of '09 and the Wings are in the same spot they were in last offseason.....a great one!

I swear to God, the Lilja hatred on this site has become so d*mn trendy.

Like I said earlier, I can see why management brought back Lilja if they think theyre gonna lose Stuart. If they dont, were seriously soft on the back-end. As much as we rag on Lilja, he did lead our team in hits last year with 135 or so.

HOWEVER, what I HATE about this re-signing, is that it basically means management has given up on looking to free agency or the trade route to address our serious need for a #4 defenseman. On this team, Kronwall, Lidstrom, and rafalski are all 1st pairing Dmen. Then you have 4 or 5 guys who are all bottom pairing Dmen. Theres no middle ground on this team. That issue needs to be addressed. And what personally pisses me off, is that Kronwall thrives with a solid linemate. When you see him with Lilja or Lebda or even Chelios, Kronwall is ALWAYS trying to compensate for his linemate. The best thing about Kronwall playing with Stuart was that he trusted Stuart and knew Stuart was capable of playing in the position that he was. You could see it in how Kronwall jumped into the play more, went for the big hit more often, and especially simplified his defensive game positionally. IMO, losing Stuart and not filling his spot is essentially losing 1.5 2nd pairing Dmen, because Kronwall will not perform the way he did when hes got to deal with youngsters or pairmates who skate with cement in their boots.

[norrisnick 1]

Or hes thinking that hes going to be screwed over if he re-signs Flip, Franzen and Hank all before July 1st, 2009, and has serious tagging room issues to deal with, a la Anaheim.

There is nothing stopping Kenny and Z from agreeing to a number, but just not putting it on paper until July 1st 2009. If we can get the negotiating out of the way, but hold off signing Z, the tagging issue would be a moot point.

[Zion 93]

Like I said earlier, I can see why management brought back Lilja if they think theyre gonna lose Stuart. If they dont, were seriously soft on the back-end. As much as we rag on Lilja, he did lead our team in hits last year with 135 or so.

HOWEVER, what I HATE about this re-signing, is that it basically means management has given up on looking to free agency or the trade route to address our serious need for a #4 defenseman. On this team, Kronwall, Lidstrom, and rafalski are all 1st pairing Dmen. Then you have 4 or 5 guys who are all bottom pairing Dmen. Theres no middle ground on this team. That issue needs to be addressed. And what personally pisses me off, is that Kronwall thrives with a solid linemate. When you see him with Lilja or Lebda or even Chelios, Kronwall is ALWAYS trying to compensate for his linemate. The best thing about Kronwall playing with Stuart was that he trusted Stuart and knew Stuart was capable of playing in the position that he was. You could see it in how Kronwall jumped into the play more, went for the big hit more often, and especially simplified his defensive game positionally. IMO, losing Stuart and not filling his spot is essentially losing 1.5 2nd pairing Dmen, because Kronwall will not perform the way he did when hes got to deal with youngsters or pairmates who skate with cement in their boots.

Great post. Very well put.

[e_144 0]

Great post. Very well put.

I agree. The best post I have seen yet.

The truth is that kronvall played AWESOME with stuart because he could always count on stuart. Proof of the level of trust he had are the HUGE hits kronvall made mid-ice throughout the playoffs! At the same time, Stuart made some good plays, some good hits, few mistakes and i am sure he would be able to improve in the red wings system. Lilja on the otherhand has made many mistakes, and lost the puck too often in important moments. The thing with lilja is that you never notice his play, except when he plays bad. So his play is either mediocre or bad, but he never shows anything good. So yeah, u can say with lilja you know what your going to get from him: a player who average or below average.

Lilja should go. If we cant sign stuart, find another defender. Preferably a stay at home defender but who is quick on the transition and can move the puck up the ice quickly. Doesnt necesarily have to be someone who scores its more important that he is a good solid skater, who makes few mistakes. Any ideas?

I also agree with the fact that chelios should go. It was great while it lasted but, i dont see him really contributing all that much. No matter how well he plays, he will prob cost us more than he can deliver. Cheli should make room for the meech and lebda.

I also think Downey should go together with drake. Downey doesnt contribute in terms of hockey, he just fights. McCarty does play hockey though, AND he fights. Also as good as drake was in the playoffs, i'd like to see Helm play regularly in the next season. He REALLY impressed me. He only played 6 regular season games and went out there during the playoffs and played like he had nothing to lose. Despite the fact that he was out there and had to prove himself, he played with confidence and took the puck to the net. And on top of that his speed is phenominal!

[uk_redwing 495]

And you call yourself a hockey fight fan?

Exactly. 2 fights a year Lilja last season bumped up his fight numbers to 3!

Next season he could even go to 4...thats four bouts of Lilja beating Patrick Sharp with his right haymaker...

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Like I said earlier, I can see why management brought back Lilja if they think theyre gonna lose Stuart. If they dont, were seriously soft on the back-end. As much as we rag on Lilja, he did lead our team in hits last year with 135 or so.

HOWEVER, what I HATE about this re-signing, is that it basically means management has given up on looking to free agency or the trade route to address our serious need for a #4 defenseman. On this team, Kronwall, Lidstrom, and rafalski are all 1st pairing Dmen. Then you have 4 or 5 guys who are all bottom pairing Dmen. Theres no middle ground on this team. That issue needs to be addressed. And what personally pisses me off, is that Kronwall thrives with a solid linemate. When you see him with Lilja or Lebda or even Chelios, Kronwall is ALWAYS trying to compensate for his linemate. The best thing about Kronwall playing with Stuart was that he trusted Stuart and knew Stuart was capable of playing in the position that he was. You could see it in how Kronwall jumped into the play more, went for the big hit more often, and especially simplified his defensive game positionally. IMO, losing Stuart and not filling his spot is essentially losing 1.5 2nd pairing Dmen, because Kronwall will not perform the way he did when hes got to deal with youngsters or pairmates who skate with cement in their boots.

Who's advocating not looking in another direction to bring in a solid linemate for Kronwall? I most certainly didn't imply that.

What I said was that he's a solid bottom pairing guy and great depth move. I would never imply that he should be consistently playing in the top 4 alongside Kronwall, and I do think he can be signed for a reasonable enough amount (and term--1 year) in order to still bring in a solid number 4 guy.

While the team (and the Wings brass) may be conceding in not going after a guy like Stuart until the deadline (or on a "when/as needed basis"), I most certainly would like to see a guy from the beginning of the year.

That being said, holding off until the midseason or the deadline does have its advantages as well.

[#2WingsFan 0]

IF they resign Lilja that would be a huge mistake. That guy just can't play.

Make room for some younger guys. This guy has proven over the last few years he is a liability. He is the only guy on the team that makes me nervous until he is OFF the ice.

Please of Please don't bring him back.

[Opie 308]

IF they resign Lilja that would be a huge mistake. That guy just can't play.

Make room for some younger guys. This guy has proven over the last few years he is a liability. He is the only guy on the team that makes me nervous until he is OFF the ice.

Please of Please don't bring him back.

Gotta ask, can I see some credentials to your hockey scouting ability, a peak at your resume even.

If Holland and Babcock say he should be a wing, than he should be a wing IMO, until your resume or credentials say otherwise I have to disagree with you.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Exactly. 2 fights a year Lilja last season bumped up his fight numbers to 3!

Next season he could even go to 4...thats four bouts of Lilja beating Patrick Sharp with his right haymaker...

Hey, I'd pay to see that kind of action any day.

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

IF they resign Lilja that would be a huge mistake. That guy just can't play.

Make room for some younger guys. This guy has proven over the last few years he is a liability. He is the only guy on the team that makes me nervous until he is OFF the ice.

Please of Please don't bring him back.

I wouldn't go that far. The double L pairing makes me nervous too when they're on the ice - the puck mysteriously spends alot of time in our zone. However, there is a reason Lilja got the spot in the SCF over Cheli - he played OK for the 3rd defensive pairing. While I love Cheli, and he's good as a depth guy, at some point you have to wonder if taking up a roster spot is beneficial??? You'd have to look at the list of guys with a similar salary to replace Lilja - when I look at that list above in the 1 mill range - nothing looks great...

Stuart is Schneider all over again. Holland is right not to overpay him. I think Stu would be great to keep, but remember not alot of teams were knocking on his door at the trade deadline. It would be nice if he took a Cup discount, but don't "count" on it. If he wants to rot with the Kings, with an extra 500g's/yr and be near the beach, so be it....

[Guest Dump-N-Thump]

Im on the fence with Lilja.

He's good with brief stinks of play.. 4-5 Games at a time, then he disappears and makes you slap your forehead in utter disappointment.

I'd rather see the young kids given a chance, But with Stuart not looking like he is coming back.. We can use the depth.. and competition in training camp.. I think id be very entertaining and good for development having Lils, Meech, Quinc, Big Jon, Cheli fighting for the last 4 spots..

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

IF they resign Lilja that would be a huge mistake. That guy just can't play.

Make room for some younger guys. This guy has proven over the last few years he is a liability. He is the only guy on the team that makes me nervous until he is OFF the ice.

Please of Please don't bring him back.

If he can't play, then the Wings would've had a helluva time winning the Stanley Cup Finals with just 5 defensemen!

Again, he's far from my favorite, when he messes up sometimes it is sometimes of the extreme variety, but the Wings aren't going to pay him to be a top line defensemen. He is decent for a 5th or 6th d-man, and is a solid PKer and shot blocker.

[dteowner 20]

That's OK, but who is your #4? I could deal with Lillypad as a #6 if I had to, but unless you're promoting one of the kids right into the #4 spot, it's Lillypad in that second pairing since Babs seems to like Lebda in the 3rd pairing.

I'm surprised how quickly everyone's turned on Stuart. The guy's family can't leave CA. He made the sacrifice as a rental and got his ring. Now he wants to be able to tuck his kids in at night. Yeah, I'd like for him to stay, but I don't see why everyone's got their panties in a twist that his priorities are a little different now that he's got a ring and a new baby.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Who's advocating not looking in another direction to bring in a solid linemate for Kronwall? I most certainly didn't imply that.

What I said was that he's a solid bottom pairing guy and great depth move. I would never imply that he should be consistently playing in the top 4 alongside Kronwall, and I do think he can be signed for a reasonable enough amount (and term--1 year) in order to still bring in a solid number 4 guy.

While the team (and the Wings brass) may be conceding in not going after a guy like Stuart until the deadline (or on a "when/as needed basis"), I most certainly would like to see a guy from the beginning of the year.

That being said, holding off until the midseason or the deadline does have its advantages as well.

NFM...chill buddy...that post wasn't aimed at you. It was my personal opinion on things. In fact, all I was doing in quoting your post was to provide my opinion as to why I thought the Wings were re-signing him. And then state what I personally hated about the re-signing.

Wasnt an attack on you at all man..

[kylee 727]

i have no problem with lillypads coming back.

someone said it best when they said he plays well for a decent period of time, then has a few bonehead plays every once in a while.

but yet, on the flip side when he steps up, uses his body and fights, i love him on the team.

[swedishconnection 36]

ALL HAIL THE RETURN OF SCHNIEDS!

what? I can dream.... Schnieder on the second pairing with Ronner? Not so bad...

It would be the end of the Schneider - B-Raf comparisons...

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

I'm surprised how quickly everyone's turned on Stuart. The guy's family can't leave CA. He made the sacrifice as a rental and got his ring. Now he wants to be able to tuck his kids in at night. Yeah, I'd like for him to stay, but I don't see why everyone's got their panties in a twist that his priorities are a little different now that he's got a ring and a new baby.

Can't or won't? I am not familiar with his personal situation. Remember Luc moved his family to Detroit for a few years to win a Cup - then went back to the Kings. It's just the nature of being a hockey player - moving around alot - especially in the new era. If he wants to play on a good team and have a shot at winning again, he would have to convince his family to spend a few years in D-town. If for some reason his family won't move, then yeah he's gone anyways.....we'll see....

[stud_defenseman 1]

Can't or won't? I am not familiar with his personal situation. Remember Luc moved his family to Detroit for a few years to win a Cup - then went back to the Kings. It's just the nature of being a hockey player - moving around alot - especially in the new era. If he wants to play on a good team and have a shot at winning again, he would have to convince his family to spend a few years in D-town. If for some reason his family won't move, then yeah he's gone anyways.....we'll see....

It has been said that Stuart's step-children are not allowed to move out of the state or their mother could lose custody, not sure if anyone can do much about that....however, I am not sure if this is true. If it was it would sure make Stuart look a little sketchy with all his comments about wanting to come back to detroit. It seems he never intended this in the first place.

[Glubki 17]

That is a pretty standard stipulation of custodial agreements... If the non custodial parent of the children/child is granted visitation rights then it is a reasonable expectation that the children must reside within the state unless that parent waives the right.

Edited June 25, 2008 by Glubki

[YoungGuns1340 1]

i have no problem with lillypads coming back.

someone said it best when they said he plays well for a decent period of time, then has a few bonehead plays every once in a while.

but yet, on the flip side when he steps up, uses his body and fights, i love him on the team.

I dont think people really have a problem with him coming back, so much as it is he will and Stuart won't. And the fact that if the Wings are only looking to offer 3M to Stuart, they certainly wont be in play for any 4th defenseman on the market, as 3M won't get them much. I think most people on the board would tolerate Lilja as a 6th Dman. Unfortunately, it looks as though he'll get a bigger role - one that he can't handle and doesnt deserve.

[DSM 114]

I agree. The best post I have seen yet.

The truth is that kronvall played AWESOME with stuart because he could always count on stuart. Proof of the level of trust he had are the HUGE hits kronvall made mid-ice throughout the playoffs! At the same time, Stuart made some good plays, some good hits, few mistakes and i am sure he would be able to improve in the red wings system. Lilja on the otherhand has made many mistakes, and lost the puck too often in important moments. The thing with lilja is that you never notice his play, except when he plays bad. So his play is either mediocre or bad, but he never shows anything good. So yeah, u can say with lilja you know what your going to get from him: a player who average or below average.

Lilja should go. If we cant sign stuart, find another defender. Preferably a stay at home defender but who is quick on the transition and can move the puck up the ice quickly. Doesnt necesarily have to be someone who scores its more important that he is a good solid skater, who makes few mistakes. Any ideas?

I also agree with the fact that chelios should go. It was great while it lasted but, i dont see him really contributing all that much. No matter how well he plays, he will prob cost us more than he can deliver. Cheli should make room for the meech and lebda.

I also think Downey should go together with drake. Downey doesnt contribute in terms of hockey, he just fights. McCarty does play hockey though, AND he fights. Also as good as drake was in the playoffs, i'd like to see Helm play regularly in the next season. He REALLY impressed me. He only played 6 regular season games and went out there during the playoffs and played like he had nothing to lose. Despite the fact that he was out there and had to prove himself, he played with confidence and took the puck to the net. And on top of that his speed is phenominal!

As much as I like Chelios, I'd have to agree with you on he Lilja's status for next season. Meech looked damn good towards the end of the season and I think Quincey could be a good dman. Keeping Lilja and Chelios just hinders their chances at developing in the Red Wings system.

I'm going to have to disagree with you about Downey and McCarty. On a scale from 1 to 10 Downey's hockey ability ranks at a 1 for sure. McCarty's is MAYBE a 3. In terms of his game, Downey had arguably his best season this year. He wasn't on the team to "contribute in terms of hockey". He only played 2-3 minutes a night and provided energy. He hit everything that moved, but played very disciplined at the same time. In fact a good portion of his PIM's were from fighting majors. McCarty on the other hand looked slow and at times lost, and took stupid lazy obstruction penalties especially in the Dallas series. Holland has already stated he wants an enforcer on the team next year expecting liberties to be taken on the cup champs. My vote goes to Downey.

[Reds4Life 51]

Lilja is solid 5th or 6th defenseman. There are not very many better 5-6th defensemen available.

For 1 - 1.2 million he would be good asset to the Red Wings.

Edited June 25, 2008 by Reds4Life