Jiri Hudler

[egroen 384]

If we could dress Quincey/Ericsson/McCarty/Lilja atleast two of them in each game.. Throw in Downey from time to time. I'd be estatic, Because i know that those 5 guys will stick up for our teammates if the other team starts to cross the line..

I like it.

[Opie 308]

I dont care who it is.. And i dont expect Dats to do it on a regular basis..

But i expect someone to do it.. And you know what, after reading what people say about hudler im kinda warming up to the guy, So LGW you're sorta right..

Im just amazed by how many people forget how we've been man handled the past years but since we won the Cup because guys like Kronner/Stewie/Mac/Downey decided to show up and give us another element of toughness that we didn't have the past years..

I contend that in the 06-07 playoffs the Wings were manhandled by NO ONE!!!!!!

Did they lose to a tough physical Ducks team, without a doubt they did, they were beaten by the Ducks. However; I contend that injuries cost them more than the physicality of any team cost the wings.

The Flames, The Sharks, The Ducks

That is a Damn tough playoff road, especially when the first round opponent has their backup in slashing away at players.

However, IMO, what killed the Wings was that 2 of the top 4 D-men and 2 PP QB's were out of the line up. I believe this translated to the horrible PP the wings had down the stretch and thus led to the loss to the Ducks, seeing as the wings went 0- for on 2 5-3's! And even more so when you figure that Schneids slapper set up a lot for that first pp unit.

[union drone 0]

Why do you like hudler?

Because he and the rest of the Keebler elves make the best cookies!

no, but seriously, he makes the most out of limited ice time. He has great offensive instincts, despite being totally undersized and having only modest skating ability.

[Guest Dump-N-Thump]

Opie - I'am glad we could have a civilized disagreement without someone going off the edge it was fun..

[Opie 308]

Dump,

I hope you were being serious, sometimes hard to tell on the internets, but I try to have civil debates as often as possible, but like everyone else I have good days and bad days!!!!

But the difference of opinion of why they lost to Ana is just that, the only hardcore concrete fact that either of us have is that the wings lost. Other than that it is how you see it and how I see it.

I see your join date is recent (not a shot at you please don't take it as such) so you wouldn't have gotten into a lot of conversations with me, I have been on this board since 00-01 I think, I tend to be civil and post my opinion and defend my opinion, once in a while, whether I am having a bad day or the topic is something I feel strongly about, I can be a real big ASSHAT!!!!

EDIT: BTW for time 501:

Downey's ability to stay out of the box and still seek retribution when needed, plus you add in the fact that I didn't hear one iota of a complaint from him about only playing 56 games, makes him the best fighter candidate on this team!

I feel I should state this because last offseason I was the biggest non Downey guy on this board. Things change a lot when you get to see someone more often and perspective is a wonderful thing!!

Edited July 22, 2008 by Opie

[Guest Dump-N-Thump]

i dont disagree with you that we would of made it to the SC finals if it wernt for D injuries.

[norrisnick 1]

I just love Downey. And seeing the wings doing the turn the other cheek thing really makes me sick sometimes.

Jesus loves you!

[norrisnick 1]

The fact of the matter is.. Is that. we like hockey fights, we arent saying Pmfgz trade everyone there soft/euro/not tUFFNEUFFF..

We just want a couple players that can stick up for our teammates. I LOVE every player on this team, I like Sammy even. And i want to protect these guys.. Does that mean we need an Enforcer? Not necessarily.

If we could dress Quincey/Ericsson/McCarty/Lilja atleast two of them in each game.. Throw in Downey from time to time. I'd be estatic, Because i know that those 5 guys will stick up for our teammates if the other team starts to cross the line..

I just want players who will stick up for each other when the going gets tough. Someones got to draw the line in the sand and if NO MAS.

There's a line. I just don't think you like where it's drawn.

[overHandright1 2]

What's more important to you? Winning or being entertained? While I like being entertained, I don't get bored easily, so I'll take winning over entertainment every time. And other parts of hockey are "entertaining" outside of two people throwing hands with each other.

So you would rather be bored and win? Can't we have both at the same time? Winning while being entertained? Since when does being entertained means that the team is going to lose? I enjoy everything that hockey provides: shooting, passing, scoring, great saves, hard checks, AND the occasional fight or two. There's nothing wrong in having a couple of guys on the team that have the potential to fight. The rest of the skilled players on the Wings can keep their gloves cemented on (and there by avoid injury) because they know that if there is a need for a beatdown there are guys on the team that fill that role. As much as I loved Dats throwing a few punches (although they were gloved punches) at Roberts, that is not his role. Pav is too important to the team to be doing that. He is just inviting the opposition to call his bluff and then he'll really get smoked some game.

[egroen 384]

He is just inviting the opposition to call his bluff and then he'll really get smoked some game.

I loved the spunk we saw out of Datsyuk in the playoffs, but I have to admit I am not looking forward to when we see Tampa this year and Roberts again...

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

So you would rather be bored and win?

Yes. Every time. And if/when the Wings start to struggle into mediocrity, whenever that time might be, I still plan to watch them

Can't we have both at the same time? Winning while being entertained?

Yes.

Since when does being entertained means that the team is going to lose?

I never said there was any direct correlation between entertainment and losing.

I enjoy everything that hockey provides: shooting, passing, scoring, great saves, hard checks, AND the occasional fight or two. There's nothing wrong in having a couple of guys on the team that have the potential to fight. The rest of the skilled players on the Wings can keep their gloves cemented on (and there by avoid injury) because they know that if there is a need for a beatdown there are guys on the team that fill that role. As much as I loved Dats throwing a few punches (although they were gloved punches) at Roberts, that is not his role. Pav is too important to the team to be doing that. He is just inviting the opposition to call his bluff and then he'll really get smoked some game.

And if Datsyuk just cowered away from Roberts in that scenario, I have a strong hunch that people here would be calling him something that rhymes with wussy for not "standing up to Roberts".

People act all disappointed that the players don't stand up for themselves and people here have been moaning about more accountability and toughness in this aspect to be added to the Red Wings. One solution to solve this problem: get an enforcer or a guy to play the role of enforcer. Problem solved for the most part as Aaron Downey filled that void.

Another problem though: enforcers play very little or not at all in the playoffs, so in essence you have to have all players stand up for each other if there are scrums and the like, even your big scorers every now and then to show they want to win and won't take any crap from the opposition. In the one instance you laid out, Datsyuk did this, and it is not good all of a sudden? There's usually no "enforcer" to enforce or babysit in the playoffs, so Datsyuk and other players have to do their own dirty work then if need be. Datsyuk did this, and did it well.

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

No but Hudler plays with a heavier jersey because 26 needs more material than 11. If his jersey were as light as Cleary's he would be scoring a point every 24.7 mins.

Hudler>Cleary

Post of the offeseason.

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

Hudler cannot be faulted for his 'penalty' in the last minutes of game six. This is true for several reasons:

1) The penalty was iffy.

2) The Pens` player would have effectively been on a breakaway if Hudler had not slowed him down.

3) The refs did not call several flagrant penalties on the Pens, penalties which were far more clear calls than was Hudler's. Lilja's stick was ripped out of his hands on the play that led to Hossa's goal, and Datsyuk was blatantly tripped up in the last 20 seconds whilst aiming at the empty net. Neither of these penalties were called.

Hudler's high-sticking penalty in game five was, while in part his fault, mostly just bad luck. Sykora's shot was, effectively, also lucky; it was not aimed, and somehow found its way through several players.

The Pens sucked 5 on 5 - and they scored on the PP anyways to pull within one. No doubt the refs were giving the Pens at the end of the game there - the no call on Datsyuk was laughable. But it's all a mute point - the better team won in the end. I still think Huds needs to be more careful there at the end of high stakes games - a lesson we learned all too well last year.

[overHandright1 2]

I never said there was any direct correlation between entertainment and losing.

That's a relief.

People act all disappointed that the players don't stand up for themselves and people here have been moaning about more accountability and toughness in this aspect to be added to the Red Wings. One solution to solve this problem: get an enforcer or a guy to play the role of enforcer. Problem solved for the most part as Aaron Downey filled that void.

Damn straight.

Another problem though: enforcers play very little or not at all in the playoffs, so in essence you have to have all players stand up for each other if there are scrums and the like, even your big scorers every now and then to show they want to win and won't take any crap from the opposition. In the one instance you laid out, Datsyuk did this, and it is not good all of a sudden? There's usually no "enforcer" to enforce or babysit in the playoffs, so Datsyuk and other players have to do their own dirty work then if need be.

Solution: Play Downey in the playoffs. The guy would step in front of a bus for the guys on the team. He knows his role and when to pick his spots.

[Guest Dump-N-Thump]

Prepare to get flamed again.. for saying play an enforcer in the playoffs.

[overHandright1 2]

Prepare to get flamed again.. for saying play an enforcer in the playoffs.

I know ... I know. The collective "Voice of Reason" here on LGW will surely disagree wholeheartedly.

[Dabura 12,232]

So you would rather be bored and win?

This past postseason was a blast, and I can't recall a single balls-to-the-walls Wings fight taking place at any point during the run.

You L-O-V-E hockey fights. So do some other LGWers. Cool. Great. The Wings don't need fighters beyond Downey and/or Mac in order to win, and they can certainly be entertaining to watch without resorting to fisticuffs.

Debate over. Huzzah.

Edited July 23, 2008 by Dabura

[eva unit zero 271]

I know ... I know. The collective "Voice of Reason" here on LGW will surely disagree wholeheartedly.

Hm...

McCarty played most of this year's Cup run. He seems to be considered an enforcer by this group's standard.

Do you SERIOUSLY feel he helped the Wings more than, say, anyone else on the roster?

McCarty was the least important player to skate in a playoff game. Even Hasek had more importance to the playoff run.

[overHandright1 2]

This past postseason was a blast, and I can't recall a single balls-to-the-walls Wings fight taking place at any point during the run.

I was referring to regular season games not the playoffs in the quote that you used. I didn't fall asleep once during the playoff run I'm happy to report.

[overHandright1 2]

Do you SERIOUSLY feel he helped the Wings more than, say, anyone else on the roster?

Nope. He made a few contributions in his limited ice time.

[Dabura 12,232]

Even in the regular season -- How many fighting majors did the Wings actually garner? And did this result in an especially boring season?

[overHandright1 2]

Even in the regular season -- How many fighting majors did the Wings actually garner? And did this result in an especially boring season?

The end result of this past season was very satisfying considering most people I encountered thought that the Wings wouldn't make it passed the second round. I watched pretty much every regular season game and every playoff game. Some games were fun to watch ... some weren't. I realize that every game will not be playoff intensity, but some games were real snoozefests. When you watch your favorite team getting pushed around, cheapshoted, and abused and they don't rise to the occasion, it gets tiresome that's all. When Downey was dressed during those games, at least there was the anticipation that something could happen.

I don't expect 71 fighting majors out of the Wings, but 40 or so would be appropriate for as much cr*p that gets handed to them by envious teams. Maybe the Joe would sell out more often (notwithstanding economic reasons) if the Wings were to drop'em more. I find it strange that the arena is named after a world famous boxer when fighting is pretty much absent from the residing team's resume'. I wish the roster was filled out already. Holland needs to just sign both Downey and McCarty or at least one of them and I will be happy for the time being. Then I will move on to being pissed off that they don't dress them often enough.

[Kp-Wings 3]

Even in the regular season -- How many fighting majors did the Wings actually garner? And did this result in an especially boring season?

Actually, much of the season was boring, to me anyways. This is because of the matchups we were forced to endure all season. Games 7 and 8 against Columbus, St. Louis, etc. were not entertaining at all.

I think the point that the fight fans are trying to make here is that a good fight or two would liven up these ridiculously boring games against Columbus, or any of these other dreadful divisional games. In fact, it would probably make the hockey itself in the game better as well, since some passion would at least be shown.

Oh, and the Wings had 20 fighting majors last season. Just so you know.

Edited July 23, 2008 by Kp-Wings

[Dabura 12,232]

When you watch your favorite team getting pushed around, cheapshoted, and abused and they don't rise to the occasion, it gets tiresome that's all.

You talk as if this is a team of pansies, and that the likes of Mac and Downey somehow "make it all better." I'll give you the entertainment point, since that's pretty subjective; if you love fights, then yeah, you're probably going to get bored watching this team in the regular season.

In terms of this team's actual needs and weaknesses, fighters really don't factor in all that much. Mac is old, slow, and (I imagine) not very intimidating as an enforcing presence. Which happens to work out just fine, as he wasn't brought back to be a fighter anyway; his current role is that of a grinding roleplayer-slash-mentor with a wealth of experience and hometown name recognition. Downey doesn't exactly strike fear into the hearts of opposing goons. He's here because he's good for morale...in the regular season...and only in the regular season....

The team as a whole is pretty tough and has enough talent to win (and in entertaining fashion) without dropping 'em. We all love a good hockey fight (or two, or three, or four...), and I personally like Mac and Downey as much as the next guy. But let's not overstate the important of something that really isn't centrally important beyond its entertainment value. (While I actually love hockey fights, it's worth noting that fighting is arguably one of the reasons why the sport can't for the life of it connect with a wider viewing audience.)

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Even in the regular season -- How many fighting majors did the Wings actually garner? And did this result in an especially boring season?

Yes, until the playoffs when there's more important things to worry about.

Also, the JLA crowd would probably echo that sentiment, since the arena always seems empty now in the regular season. A lot more fighting wouldn't hurt this team. Your problem is that you keep arguing about how not having it doesn't hurt it.

Since fighting doesn't help or hurt this team, but helps entertainment value, my conclusion is that we should have more fighters on the team.