Lidstrom & Datsyuk suspended for skipping ASG

[Esquire 324]

I feel bad for Bettman now...

...because when he hands the Cup over to Lidstrom this summer it's going to be awkward.

[FinRedWing 172]

I wonder if this affects what Holland will say when Bettman asks the Red Wings to go to Europe?

[Kronner55 1]

I still think Babcock should call in with an injury....

[b.shanafan14 733]

Duck Guy. I like you. Really. Let's see if I can make you see why I feel the way I do.

Lids and Dats talked to Kenny on Tuesday or Wednesday (I'm sure Pavel talked to him on Tuesday after the game in which he was injured. I don't know if Lids talked to him before the game or if he had the MRI the next day.)

Either way, the rule was that if they couldn't play, they would have to miss a game before or after. They knew that and decided that since they were injured and couldn't play, that they needn't go. They were going to receive the suspension anyway because they couldn't play.

They may not have known for sure if Bettman would enforce it, since it was a new rule, and not even set in stone- more of an agreement than a rule, not that there's much difference, although an agreement would allow for circumstantial evidence, such as MRI's or having sat out part of the game. We don't know if Bettman would have allowed it or not, and it is now a moot point. Let's just assume they knew that they could be suspended for a game.

So they are told by their GM to go ahead and relax and recouperate. They do that. Then on Friday, 2-3 days later, Crosby and Bettman chat on the phone, and Bettman tells Sydney that he can avoid the suspension if he just goes and does the media thing. This option had not been given to Lids and Dats at the time they pulled out of the game. It was play or get suspended; not show up or get suspended.

Crosby hops on a plane, the other guys don't. They were given that out only at the last minute, after Crosby got the loophole.

Imagine you have the stomach flu and can't make it to work. You and another co-worker miss 2 days of work, and have your pay docked, as per company policy. Then a couple of days later another employee misses 2 days, but the boss says that he can just come in on the weekend. If you had known of that option, you might have used it. But that option wasn't there at the time you put in your notice.

Now do you see why we're upset? We've been discussing how there are no Wings represented at the ASG for days now, but only at the end does Bettman come up with the loophole; not when Lids and Dats let the league know they wouldn't be able to play, which was the original stipulation.

Then he calls up Kenny and makes it sound like Lids and Dats have broken the rule by not attending the media functions to avoid the suspension, which was only put into effect that day. Originally, the players had to play.

That's the main gripe. I don't expect you to agree. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but do you at least see where I'm coming from?

Yes, and you could take the example a step further ... when you return to work there's a big sign above the time clock announcing that you and your co-worker have been docked pay for choosing not not to make up the time on the weekend, and thanking the other employee for his weekend work.

This.

This is Bettman's Napoleon complex showing, like a spoiled girl who is mad when people can't come to her party. Nothing more. First the rule was an 'understanding', then it was an iron clad rule, then it has some a last minute change that allows players to simply show up in Montreal. I'll stick to my guns and guarantee that had Crosby not gone to Montreal ala him and Bettman's private call, there is no suspension at all. Bettman would never suspend his poster boy and drag his name through the mud as a 'selfish' superstar. In fact on TSN.ca the first I had heard about the suspension threats first thing yesterday they had already said "Pittsburgh won't test his patience" or something of the sort.

And even if you say "why don't they just show up in Montreal" its not the same. Use the above scenarios given except its first thing Saturday morning on the weekend you could have possibly made up for it, and you get the phonecall saying you could make it up if you come straight to the office, but its the weekend you are out of town with your family or something. On the other hand, the other guy who is showing up to work the weekend knew since day one he missed, is right down the street and has no wife and kids to head home to that weekend. Unfortunately for you, you found out too late to change plans and even if you could you wouldn't because you don't see said family enough being that your job has you coming and going to a different city every other night.

[lets go pavel 2]

True. And then the other employee tells everyone that whilst the intern was doing your job, you should have been there with your barf bucket in case advertisers came along so they could see how great your company is. Ok, maybe that one's pushing the analogy

BTW, I liked your explanation in the other thread. Much better than my full-length novel.

That's funny, I actually liked your example better!

In any case, it's obvious Bettman f***ed up and made the wrong rule. The rule he apparently wanted was one that said everyone shows up, even if injured. The rule he came up with at the GM meeting said injured people have to prove they're injured by sitting a game. That might work to keep people from faking injuries, but it does nothing to make people with legitimate injuries attend. Obviously he realized this, and the "Crosby exception" is his attempt to fix his mistake, but not soon enough, and our guys get screwed in the process ...

[FedorovGurl 2]

But then again I can't help but laugh at the thought of Datsyuk showing up at the events all stoned on painkillers, stumbling around, breaking things, saying hilarious stuff, cussing out Bettman in his 'Russ-english'....

[Esquire 324]

Can someone provide a link to where it documents Crosby having talked to Buttman in private?

[esteef 2,679]

Can someone provide a link to where it documents Crosby having talked to Buttman in private?

Look in the video areas on this subject on ESPN, TSN, NHL websites. He admits it in an interview.

esteef

[Broken 16 381]

This is ridiculous. Get off your f***in asses and go represent the league that that fills your bank account with millions of dollars every year. Are we honestly supposed to feel sorry for Lidstrom and Datsyuk because they have minor injuries? These guys live like kings and have opportunities with their families that most of us can only dream of and we're supposed to feel sorry for poor Nick because he wants to see his kids and his elbow hurts? Un-f***in-believable.

Seriously... this s*** sickens me. All they have to do is go represent for ONE f***IN DAY!!! They don't even have to play. I find it laughable and embarassing to our team.

Queue the Red Wing slappies to tell me what an ******* I am...

Edited January 24, 2009 by Broken 16

[lets go pavel 2]

This is ridiculous. Get off your f***in asses and go represent the league that that fills your bank account with millions of dollars every year. Are we honestly supposed to feel sorry for Lidstrom and Datsyuk because they have minor injuries? These guys live like kings and have opportunities with their families that most of us can only dream of and we're supposed to feel sorry for poor Nick because he wants to see his kids and his elbow hurts? Un-f***in-believable.

Seriously... this s*** sickens me. All they have to do is go represent for ONE f***IN DAY!!! They don't even have to play. I find it laughable and embarassing to our team.

Did you bother to read any of the posts in the thread? Injured players have never been expected to attend in the past, and they were unaware that Bettman wanted them to show up just for the meet-and-greet. Had they known prior to yesterday that that was the expectation and that they would avoid the suspension by doing so I'm sure they would have been there.

No one here is saying it's too much to ask ... we're upset because it was asked too late.

Edited January 24, 2009 by lets go pavel

[Broken 16 381]

Did you bother to read any of the posts in the thread? Injured players have never been expected to attend in the past, and they were unaware that Bettman wanted them to show up just for the meet-and-greet. Had they known prior to yesterday that that was the expectation and that they would avoid the suspension by doing so I'm sure they would have been there.

No one here is saying it's too much to ask ... we're upset because it was asked too late.

Are you implying that these guys can't hop onto a plane at a moments notice, whenever they want? C'mon. God forbid Nick has to cancel his trip to Chuck E. Cheese with his kids at the last minute. Poor guy.

Edited January 24, 2009 by Broken 16

[CdnWingsFanEh 2]

I for one hope Nick had a good time a Chuck E Cheese, cause that time with his family is sure as hell more important than going to the all star game. He's gone the last 10 years. I think he's earned a bye this year.

[shannyfan1414 0]

OK I have not read all the post in this topic. I'm ticked off about this though. If our guys are hurt they should not have to play in this exhibition game. It's BS that they are being suspended for not playing. Crosby better be forced to sit at least a game for not playing as well.

I'm glad that Kenny is supporting the boys. It doesn't suprise me that he is pissed and i hope that he raises some hell with the league over this one.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I know it's Sidney Crosby we're talking about here and he's the devil and the worst thing to ever happen to the game of hockey, but I'm still not following how it's an exception.

He was planning on only going Saturday night for the Young Stars Game and Skills competition. Then he was informed by Bettman of the rule, so he changed his plans and is attending the whole weekend. The only thing to really make fun of here is that is sounds like Bettman called Crosby personally to inform him of the rule change and did not with Lids or Datsyuk, which honestly if I were them I would prefer he don't call me. But Bettman or someone from the league obviously informed Holland. Not to mention as GM Holland should be aware of this rule since it was voted on a year ago.

But that's not an exception. That's just Crosby being the NHL poster boy. He changed his plans and is going for the full weekend, which is exactly what the league asked of Dats and Lidstrom.

I think it's also interesting that Crosby, and I'm guessing Lidstrom and Datsyuk, weren't really aware of this rule change. The GM's agreed to it a year ago, but didn't give their players a heads up? Or I guess they didn't think it would actually be enforced. According to Hockey News, most players were unaware the rule even existed.

It's nice of Holland to stick up for his players this year. I hope he wasn't one of the GM's to agree to it last year.

All in all this was handled extremely poorly by Bettman (shocking, I know). But there's no Crosby exception here. If Lidstrom and Datsyuk showed up too, they'd be playing on Tuesday. It was theirs and Holland's choice.

Edited January 24, 2009 by haroldsnepsts

[HockeytownRN 0]

Are you implying that these guys can't hop onto a plane at a moments notice, whenever they want? C'mon. God forbid Nick has to cancel his trip to Chuck E. Cheese with his kids at the last minute. Poor guy.

Wow, good analogy. Sure they can "hop on a plane" at a moment's notice. Where are they? I bet they are Chuck E Cheese as you say. I'm sure they can't be in Sweden, or Hawaii, b/c they make such good money that in the middle of winter in Michigan they would be enjoying time with the wife and kids that they don't see regularly during the hockey season sitting at home. They probably already figured they were getting a game suspension or weren't going to play anyways. The question is, do you think they would have AVOIDED the suspension if they knew THREE days earlier that they COULD have avoided it before they made last minute plans with their families? God forbid their wife and kids mean anything to them b/c they make so much money.

[Broken 16 381]

I for one hope Nick had a good time a Chuck E Cheese, cause that time with his family is sure as hell more important than going to the all star game. He's gone the last 10 years. I think he's earned a bye this year.

He hasn't "earned" any such thing. He's an all-star. He gets paid to be an all-star. So go be an all-star for ONE day and do what you have to do... even if its just go make a couple of appearances. Thats the price of fame and money sometimes.

[lets go pavel 2]

I know it's Sidney Crosby we're talking about here and he's the devil and the worst thing to ever happen to the game of hockey, but I'm still not following how it's an exception.

He was planning on only going Saturday night for the Young Stars Game and Skills competition. Then he was informed by Bettman of the rule, so he changed his plans and is attending the whole weekend. The only thing to really make fun of here is that is sounds like Bettman called Crosby personally to inform him of the rule change and did not with Lids or Datsyuk, which honestly if I were them I would prefer he don't call me.

But that's not an exception. That's just Crosby being the NHL poster boy. He changed his plans and is going for the full weekend, which is exactly what the league asked of Dats and Lidstrom.

I think it's also interesting that Crosby, and I'm guessing Lidstrom and Datsyuk, weren't really aware of this rule change. The GM's agreed to it a year ago, but didn't give their players a heads up? Or I guess they didn't think it would actually be enforced. According to Hockey News, most players were unaware the rule even existed.

It's nice of Holland to stick up for his players this year. I hope he wasn't one of the GM's to agree to it last year.

All in all this was handled extremely poorly by Bettman (shocking, I know). But there's no Crosby exception here. If Lidstrom and Datsyuk showed up too, they'd be playing on Tuesday. It was theirs and Holland's choice.

The rule, as I understand it, that was decided upon at the GM meeting last year stated that any player who does not PLAY due to injury has to sit a game. Now it seems that you can avoid sitting the game out if you SHOW UP for the off-ice stuff, and by all accounts this revision stems from Bettman's conversation with Crosby. Call it a revision, call it an exception, call it whatever you want, but the main gripe is that it was created so late.

Edited January 24, 2009 by lets go pavel

[Louisville 112]

Didn't see this one coming. Kenny is now my personal hero.

[CdnWingsFanEh 2]

He hasn't "earned" any such thing. He's an all-star. He gets paid to be an all-star. So go be an all-star for ONE day and do what you have to do... even if its just go make a couple of appearances. Thats the price of fame and money sometimes.

Actually, in this case the price for fame and money was to sit out a single game as a scratch...

As for whether he earned it or not, I guess that's a matter of opinion I'll have to disagree with you about. He gets paid to be a hockey player. Maybe he would have been there had he known as far in advance as Crosby, but it also seems that Holland didn't want to call him at home to tell him he could play in that Columbus game if he simply attended. He likely did not know this was an option anyways.

You seem really upset that he didn't attend. Just curious. Did you have tickets to this event?

[lets go pavel 2]

He hasn't "earned" any such thing. He's an all-star. He gets paid to be an all-star. So go be an all-star for ONE day and do what you have to do... even if its just go make a couple of appearances. Thats the price of fame and money sometimes.

Again, injured players have never been expected to attend in years past if they weren't playing, and that expectation was not made clear this year either, at least until yesterday. It's fine if you think they should be there, I won't argue with that, but given the circumstances of the whole thing which have been pretty clearly laid out for you I think it's pretty easy to understand why they aren't there, and why people are upset over this.

[Broken 16 381]

Wow, good analogy. Sure they can "hop on a plane" at a moment's notice. Where are they? I bet they are Chuck E Cheese as you say. I'm sure they can't be in Sweden, or Hawaii, b/c they make such good money that in the middle of winter in Michigan they would be enjoying time with the wife and kids that they don't see regularly during the hockey season sitting at home. They probably already figured they were getting a game suspension or weren't going to play anyways. The question is, do you think they would have AVOIDED the suspension if they knew THREE days earlier that they COULD have avoided it before they made last minute plans with their families? God forbid their wife and kids mean anything to them b/c they make so much money.

Nice spin... but WHERE they are has nothing to do with anything. These two aren't the only people on the face of the planet that have expectations placed on them from their place of employment.

Sure... the All-Star game may be a joke in the big picture. It may have been handled poorly. But Lidstrom and Datsyuk are, arguably, the best players in their respective positions in the entire league. Not to mention part of the defending Stanley Cup champion team. Unless they require surgery, they should be there in my opinion. Its only in their best interest to participate and try and bolster the league. To me, this comes off as arrogance and I don't like it. Sorry.

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

Do teams usually lose track of players halfway through the season?

Here's another swell idea from Inspector Gadget.

Soon to be available at shop nhl dot com:

Available in all 30 NHL team colours.

And, bravo to Mr. Babcock.

[Louisville 112]

He hasn't "earned" any such thing. He's an all-star. He gets paid to be an all-star. So go be an all-star for ONE day and do what you have to do... even if its just go make a couple of appearances. Thats the price of fame and money sometimes.

He didn't even get invited to be an All-Star initially. And anyway, Nick is also a guy that has been on this team for about 17 years and is our capitan, YES HE HAS EARNED SUCH A THING.

Is is not getting through peoples heads that Nick is actually injured?

[Louisville 112]

Nice spin... but WHERE they are has nothing to do with anything. These two aren't the only people on the face of the planet that have expectations placed on them from their place of employment.

Sure... the All-Star game may be a joke in the big picture. It may have been handled poorly. But Lidstrom and Datsyuk are, arguably, the best players in their respective positions in the entire league. Not to mention part of the defending Stanley Cup champion team. Unless they require surgery, they should be there in my opinion. Its only in their best interest to participate and try and bolster the league. To me, this comes off as arrogance and I don't like it. Sorry.

THEY ARE INJURED.

[lets go pavel 2]

Nice spin... but WHERE they are has nothing to do with anything. These two aren't the only people on the face of the planet that have expectations placed on them from their place of employment.

The expectation that they should attend even though they are injured and not playing did not exist until YESTERDAY. At that point it quite likely was not so simple as just hopping on a plane ...