Mike Green, are we looking at a new Norris Winner

[alienanxiety 23]

wasn't Green taken with the Red Wings pick that was sent with Fleischmann for Robert Lang?

[Opie 308]

Is GS&T big Wysh!!

Yahoo linky!

OR is he Sarah Kwak???

SI Linky

OR

James Mirtle??

The Rink Linky

We may never know!!

[Doggy 130]

Green should win the Selke trophy, not the Norris.

I disagree, I can think of at least 15-20 forwards with better defensive abilities. They'd all be putting up more than a pt/game being AO's fourth forward too.

[ShanahanMan 473]

Its not all about points, more about all around game. Someone else mentioned that he leads defensemen in giveaways....pretty harsh statistic. I'm really thinking Chara has the best chance to win it this year.

[VM1138 1,921]

Mike Green is another Mathieu Schneider! Great Offensive skill, but not all that great on D. I have noticed he turns the puck over alot, just like Schnd's did! I think that Greens numbers are helped by the fact that he is on the PP with Ovechkin and Feds!!

I would say that Chara is decent, but Tim Thomas has bailed him out quite a few times as well.

I would say the race is between Chara and Lidstrom, but I think in the end Lidstrom will win it again.

Agreed. I think a ranking would look something like thsi, regarding modern defenseman:

Superhuman: Lidstrom

Great: Nobody

Good: Chara, etc.

Just seems to me that, like goalies, there is a serious drought in truly excellent defensemen.

But then again, maybe we've just been spoiled having Chelios when he was still excellent, and Lidstrom hsi entire career?

I'm so used to Nick being perfect (except for the very beginning of this year) that if I see a defenseman make even an innocent mistake, it takes him out of the "Great" category.

Am I being too tough on today's defensemen?

[norrisnick 1]

Top 3 are Lidstrom, Chara, Keith. Whoever finishes the best should win this.

I hope the voters are smarter than giving the Norris to a forward, and not even a two-way forward. Green isn't a better defensive player than Alex Semin.

[Yzersyukstromberg 0]

Combining offensive input, time on ice, overall effectiveness on their respective team, PK time, powerplay time, all of the above... The award goes to Jay Bouwmeester.

You can take this to the bank right now...Jay Bouwmeester has no chance of winning the Norris Trophy this season. There are too many others who will beat him simply because they play for a better team (even though he might be a worthy top-5 candidate for the award).

[Yzersyukstromberg 0]

Although I still believe that Nick will be probably be a frontrunner for the Norris at the end of the season, there are a few factors that might weigh against him this year.

1- Our defense as a whole is no longer one of the best in the league.

2- Our penalty kill is horrible...and Nick is part of the penalty kill.

3- His point totals are significantly lower than his normal output.

Even though he's still the best defenseman in the league, by far...the people who vote to determine these awards are 'slappies' who will be easily sucked in by a Green or a Chara type, who each are having seasons that are far beyond each of their prior personal bests. That seems to be the trend in award voting.

[LeftWinger 4,963]

Green should win the Selke trophy, not the Norris.

...I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure that the NHL does not award a defensman a trophy that is won for being the "Best Defensive Forward."

[Doggy 130]

...I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure that the NHL does not award a defensman a trophy that is won for being the "Best Defensive Forward."

He never said he will win the Selke.

[eva unit zero 271]

Yeah, that's sort of the point I was making. We've all seen dmen win it that we were fairly certain only did so because of offensive numbers. Seeing as how nobody puts up Coffey like numbers anymore, if a dman can put up 70-80 points and 20-25 goals, that may very well be "coffey like" in today's era.

I don't know anything of Green's defensive play as I don't watch the Caps.

I totally forgot about Chara. You can't really argue that he can dominate all around the ice. He's as good an all around dman as there is. I think I would be just fine with him winning it. Of course I desperately want Nick to win it.

Yup, that's GS&T being a homer. You saw it here first folks.

When Coffey was in Edmonton, he was actually playing a decent defensive game as well. His defensive game tapered off in the 90s, but he was much better defensively that Green when he was winning the Norris. And in 1995, his offensive numbers were much more impressive for a defenseman than Green's are this year, and he was at MINIMUM Green's equal defensively. Coffey had better than a PPG (58 points in 45 games) and led the team in scoring by 8 points over Sergei Fedorov's 50 in 42. That's significantly better offensive stats than Green has before considering that Green's team has two forwards scoring more points than Coffey's highest-scoring teammate, plus another with almost as many in fewer games. Green has a ways to go before he deserves Norris consideration.

Lidstrom and Chara are the only two I think even deserve consideration. Lidstrom because he is easily the best, and Chara because he has outplayed the rest and many of the media have seemed to want to give it to someone else this season because Nick has not been deserving of a unanimous selection this year, so they feel that means he doesn't get a vote at all.

[BeeRYCE 2]

You can take this to the bank right now...Jay Bouwmeester has no chance of winning the Norris Trophy this season. There are too many others who will beat him simply because they play for a better team (even though he might be a worthy top-5 candidate for the award).

If Florida makes the playoffs, and if he's still on the team of course... Give him HUGE consideration.

Anyways, I really wish Shea Weber was still a front runner for this award like he was in the first quarter of the season. It would be great to see him get it, aside from Lids of course.

[Krayzie_Bone 58]

Dan Boyle is having a great year also.

[Guest Hatethedrake!]

Right now I think Chara deserves the Norris. Nick has won it enough times. He's still the best dman in the NHL and everyone knows it. It's almost like the rest of the league has been anxiously awaiting for Lidstrom to not have a great season. And when this happens they cannot wait to take the Norris away from him. I still recall how Nick was ripped off in favour of MacInnis, Blake and Pronger for the Norris. Green is basically a forward lining up on defense. Nothing against Green but he is not the first one I think of when it comes to dominating dmen. While JBO has improved and is finally realizing his potential, he is not worthy of winning the Norris this season. As for Boyle, he is decent but not in Chara's league as far as all around defense. Of course when it comes to all around defense, no one is in Nick's league even if he he is not having a dominating year this season. I chalk it up to his arm injury, increasing age as well as having played so much playoff hockey the past 2 seasons. It has to take its toll eventually. Even if Nick is playing like Clarke Kent (in terms of his own standards) he is still Superman compared to any ther dman in the league.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Top 3 are Lidstrom, Chara, Keith. Whoever finishes the best should win this.

I hope the voters are smarter than giving the Norris to a forward, and not even a two-way forward. Green isn't a better defensive player than Alex Semin.

Agreed. Maybe the most underrated Dman - or player - in the game considering how quietly good this kid is. If you ask me, Keith is the Dman in the NHL that most resembles Lidstrom. His offensive abilities aren't comparable, but his defensive sense of the game is phenomenal for a 25 year old. In a few years, I think Keith is going to be the smartest Dman in the game. He has a raw intelligence for the game that doesn't come around very often.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Is GS&T big Wysh!!

Yahoo linky!

OR is he Sarah Kwak???

SI Linky

OR

James Mirtle??

The Rink Linky

We may never know!!

HA! Thanks for the links. I have AO on my fantasy team so I check the boxscore for the Caps games and I just kept seeing Green's name in on so many goals so I checked his stats on NHL.com and decided to start this thread. I guess I wasn't the only person thinking of this.

I hope by starting this thread folks don't think I beleive Green should win it. Because I don't. I was just curious if folks think he could win it because of his O numbers.

[Opie 308]

Just thought it was funny, I do believe though that the stories on Yahoo and SI were published after your thread!!!!

[Datsyerberger 279]

Agreed. Maybe the most underrated Dman - or player - in the game considering how quietly good this kid is. If you ask me, Keith is the Dman in the NHL that most resembles Lidstrom. His offensive abilities aren't comparable, but his defensive sense of the game is phenomenal for a 25 year old. In a few years, I think Keith is going to be the smartest Dman in the game. He has a raw intelligence for the game that doesn't come around very often.

I definitely agree that he's underrated, and most likely a future Norris winner. Not only is he smart, but he has great endurance.. I think his VO2 is supposed to be insanely high for hockey players.

That said, I don't think he's a top 3 candidate this year.. maybe I'm spoiled watching Lidstrom, but I've seen him make some gaffs that I just wouldn't expect out of a Norris winner. More importantly, he doesn't put up a crapton of points, which seems to be a prerequisite for anything besides the Masterson and Vezina anymore.

I honestly believe that the year that Chara's stats can be held comparable to Lidstrom's, the media is going to pick him, regardless of who has the superior performance on the ice. Why? He plays a game that, stylistically, the media likes better.. physical, aggressive, and risky. Lidstrom doesn't take big risks, he doesn't hunt for big hits, and he doesn't have the hardest slapshot (though I'd argue that it's one of the top 3, if not the best slapper in the league in terms of sheer performance). A lot of people define this as 'boring'. A giraffe on skates that delivers huge hits and a scary fast slapshot is generally going to be more attention grabbing to those who vote off of highlight reels.

I've seen Chara make more defensive gaffs in a few Boston games than I've seen Lidstrom make all season. Regardless of that, the guy is definitely one of the best all-around defensemen we've had around in the last few years, and I think when history looks back on him, he's going to be the guy that didn't win as many Norris's as he could have because he played in the "Lidstrom era". It's going to be a joke if anyone besides these two wins it, and if they do, it's either going to be because of a spectacular run down the stretch, or based purely off point totals (Green, Boyle, et al).

As I'm so set in who I believe to be #1 and #2, a more interesting conversation from my point of view might be who's going to come 3rd in voting. In fact, I need some time to mull my own question there over

Edited February 10, 2009 by Datsyerberger

[hankzet40 233]

Another two tonight. He has been unreal lately.

[redwings1914 18]

One year wonder.

[BeeRYCE 2]

One year wonder.

He has pretty hot last season too... I don't know, one year wonders don't usually increase their level year by year and then suddenly fall off the face of the Earth, I mean he's only 23. He probably has a really good career ahead of him and I could see him improving his defensive ability just like Gonchar did. Personally I like this kid.

[softshoes 83]

Does anyone besides me think they would never let anyone tie or break Orr's record for Norris trophies?

Or have I been hanging out on the grassy knoll to long?

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Does anyone besides me think they would never let anyone tie or break Orr's record for Norris trophies?

Or have I been hanging out on the grassy knoll to long?

It might be more a question of whether or not there will ever be another Dman who is worth of as many trophies as Orr.

What will be interesting to see is whether or not Green can break the 48 goal mark set by Coffey. I doubt it, but I could see Green breaking Bourque's all time goals scored mark. Bourque had longevity, and started earlier than Green, but Bourque only ever scored more than 25 goals twice in his career. Green will undoubtedly break that mark this year, and could easily keep it up with the kind of shot this kid has.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

He has pretty hot last season too... I don't know, one year wonders don't usually increase their level year by year and then suddenly fall off the face of the Earth, I mean he's only 23. He probably has a really good career ahead of him and I could see him improving his defensive ability just like Gonchar did. Personally I like this kid.

Agreed. There are some offensive Dman who stay shoddy defensive players throughout their careers simply because they aren't smart enough. Other guys take time becoming good defensive Dmen because they have different priorities, and at a younger age, usually go for the glory of goal scoring and production over defense. Thats Green right now. The kids loving that hes breaking records with his bomb of a shot, but eventually he'll come around and value the team game over his personal accolades. He could easily become a great defensive Dman over the next 5 years.

[SweWings 45]

It might be more a question of whether or not there will ever be another Dman who is worth of as many trophies as Orr.

Well with Orr it was never really a question of Norris trophies. But you're right tho, as much as I love Lids, the videos I've seen of Orr and the stories I've read... if he had stayed healthy I really wonder how many Norris' he would've ended up with.