jjd06e 10 Report post Posted February 11, 2009 We are going to have to probably lose two of Hossa/Sammy/Franzen/Hudler Bye Bye Sammy for sure, Hossa is a lock IMO and we get compensation if we let Hudler walk, he is the only one that is true of. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveyzerman 0 Report post Posted February 11, 2009 We are going to have to probably lose two of Hossa/Sammy/Franzen/Hudler Bye Bye Sammy for sure, Hossa is a lock IMO and we get compensation if we let Hudler walk, he is the only one that is true of. My thoughts exactly. & I love Hudler so that's a bummer, but the salary cap is calling the shots. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheOwl 77 Report post Posted February 11, 2009 He scored 50% of his goals from tap ins from Z facing a s*** avalanche team. He's scored 8 goals and 4 assists for 12 points in his past 20 games. Flip has 11. Worth a lot more huh? Like I've said 1000 times before. Franzen is great at scoring goals if he gets a nice pass/opportunity no doubt, but he does nothing past that and doesn't create his own opprotunities (except his one highlight goal this year and against pittsburhg in the playoffs). In a few years, flip is going to be worth more than huds or franzen. Mark my words. Flip shows way more potential than Hudler ever has, that is a fact. Hudler just has some extra offensive instinct, something that flip will gain in time and when he does he is going to be a beast. Yeah, Franzen's 22 goals this season is worth just as much as Flipulla's assists. Franzen is better defensively, offensively and physically. Plus he's making a third of what Flipulla is making. Franzen for 3.75 mill, or Flipulla for the same. No one, not even the hater that you are, would pick Flipulla. Franzen is a much better player in every area of the game. Franzen has a ton of highlight worthy goals. And if all Franzen's goals are just tip ins, how come Homer, or Cleary don't have 22 goals already? They play on the top lines as well. It's about goals. 10 assists isn't as good as 10 goals. Franzen is highly under-rated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveyzerman 0 Report post Posted February 11, 2009 Yeah, Franzen's 22 goals this season is worth just as much as Flipulla's assists. Franzen is better defensively, offensively and physically. Plus he's making a third of what Flipulla is making. Franzen for 3.75 mill, or Flipulla for the same. No one, not even the hater that you are, would pick Flipulla. Franzen is a much better player in every area of the game. Franzen has a ton of highlight worthy goals. And if all Franzen's goals are just tip ins, how come Homer, or Cleary don't have 22 goals already? They play on the top lines as well. It's about goals. 10 assists isn't as good as 10 goals. Franzen is highly under-rated. Thank you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrisdetroit 189 Report post Posted February 11, 2009 I truly can't believe I'm saying this but I agree, Franzen is injured more often and will cost a lot more money for what is better but not significantly better play. Franzen can also be lazy, its not often but there are games were he doesn't skate. Still I think they get rid of Hudler for two reasons, with Hudler you at least get something in return for you assests (picks) and I think they believe they are better at drafting and developing players that play Hudler's game. For whatever reason I think they believe that its more difficult for them to draft and develop a power forward. What we do know is that Chelios is gone and Meech becomes a hell of alot more important in that he can play both a forward and defensive position. It certainly will be an interesting off season. Pure Speculation Disclaimer: Its also possible that Holland knows something we don't, i.e. someone who isn't Chelios is retiring thus freeing up far more space than we have allotted for. Again this is total BS but to me he doesn't really seem all that concerned with the cap. You are missing some very important points. Franzen is a big power forward who plays alot in front of the net. We only have 1 other of those in Holstrom and he is 37 and has had groin problems the last few years. Hudler is a small young finesse forward with very good hands. We have several more of those -Filpulla, Helm, Datsyuk So if you look at it that way, the choice is obvious. We need Franzen alot more than we need Huds. Even if Huds has more points (and he actually only has 10 more points despite playing in 8 more games). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MrSandMan Report post Posted February 11, 2009 So we Flipulla for depth but not Sammy for sub 2 mill a year, or Hudler? PHAIL. Huh? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ms_Hockey 0 Report post Posted February 11, 2009 (edited) ARE WE STILL GIVING DRAKE MONEY?! I don't think we'll be extending Nick's contract for five years. I'm pretty sure he has an age in mind when to stop. I can promise you he won't quit in the middle of a season. The rule is that if a player is 35 or older when he signs his contract, he'll count against the cap for the remainder of that contract - even if he retires. The hope was to dissuade teams from giving older players long-term contracts and having those same players retire one or two years into the contract. So, are we paying Drake? I don't know - but I thought Drake only wanted to win the Cup last season & retire anyway - so he probably didn't have a contract extension. Basically, Lidstrom or any other 35+ player (at signing) wouldn't have to quit mid-season for this rule to be in effect. He'd just had to retire before his contract ended.. whether that was at the end of this season or next. Edited February 11, 2009 by Ms_Hockey Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted February 11, 2009 You are missing some very important points. Franzen is a big power forward who plays alot in front of the net. We only have 1 other of those in Holstrom and he is 37 and has had groin problems the last few years. Hudler is a small young finesse forward with very good hands. We have several more of those -Filpulla, Helm, Datsyuk So if you look at it that way, the choice is obvious. We need Franzen alot more than we need Huds. Even if Huds has more points (and he actually only has 10 more points despite playing in 8 more games). Yeah - Hudler's skills are on par with Filppula's and Helm's. The choice IS obvious. You ship Filppula to retain Hudler. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drake_Marcus 890 Report post Posted February 11, 2009 ARE WE STILL GIVING DRAKE MONEY?! I don't think we'll be extending Nick's contract for five years. I'm pretty sure he has an age in mind when to stop. I can promise you he won't quit in the middle of a season. ? Are you serious? Drake wasn't on the books for this year, regardless of whether or not he planned to retire. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted February 11, 2009 I view Hudler as more important to keep than even Franzen (especially if we are able to keep Hossa). He's outproduced Franzen every year, is younger with more potential and has not been injured as much... and will most likely be a lot cheaper. Hossa>Hudler>Franzen>Filppula>Samuelsson In terms of value for perceived salary. Whoa, egroen, man. I was just going to post that same thing, same way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drake_Marcus 890 Report post Posted February 11, 2009 You are missing some very important points. Franzen is a big power forward who plays alot in front of the net. We only have 1 other of those in Holstrom and he is 37 and has had groin problems the last few years. Hudler is a small young finesse forward with very good hands. We have several more of those -Filpulla, Helm, Datsyuk So if you look at it that way, the choice is obvious. We need Franzen alot more than we need Huds. Even if Huds has more points (and he actually only has 10 more points despite playing in 8 more games). And you're missing an equally important point: shipping Hudler doesn't free up cash for Franzen. Hudler's replacement would only make a few hundred grand less than he did this year. Franzen will be on the books for 4 million at the very least. Hudler isn't holding down a contract that can free up that cash so the choice isn't Franzen or Hudler, it's Franzen or Hudler + some other players. And that bolded part is silly. Neither player is on a ppg pace, so a difference that translates to a 1.2 ppg pace over the 8 game stretch doesn't help your argument. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
talex 1 Report post Posted February 12, 2009 You realize that they're going to retire if we keep Hossa & Franzen or not? & when players do retire, their salary comes off the books. Also, we're talking about Griffins that could be full time first or second liners on more than half the teams in the NHL. (IE QUINCY) Yes I realize this, my point is that the players I listed do not cost very much for what they add, in fact my whole point was that I do not think I would trade off or write off so much of the core in 1 move like many are mentioning. Sammy, Flip, Huds, Draper etc may not be Z's or Dats but they form a good solid group. I just do not think keeping both is such a great idea, maybe it is just me but I would rather have Sammy and Flip then 1 Franzen and this is especially true if they can also keep huds. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveyzerman 0 Report post Posted February 12, 2009 The rule is that if a player is 35 or older when he signs his contract, he'll count against the cap for the remainder of that contract - even if he retires. The hope was to dissuade teams from giving older players long-term contracts and having those same players retire one or two years into the contract. So, are we paying Drake? I don't know - but I thought Drake only wanted to win the Cup last season & retire anyway - so he probably didn't have a contract extension. Basically, Lidstrom or any other 35+ player (at signing) wouldn't have to quit mid-season for this rule to be in effect. He'd just had to retire before his contract ended.. whether that was at the end of this season or next. I don't think Ken Holland would give Nick more than a 2 year contract at this stage. & I'm sure Nick would playout his contract. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveyzerman 0 Report post Posted February 12, 2009 Yes I realize this, my point is that the players I listed do not cost very much for what they add, in fact my whole point was that I do not think I would trade off or write off so much of the core in 1 move like many are mentioning. Sammy, Flip, Huds, Draper etc may not be Z's or Dats but they form a good solid group. I just do not think keeping both is such a great idea, maybe it is just me but I would rather have Sammy and Flip then 1 Franzen and this is especially true if they can also keep huds. Would you rather have Sammy & Flip over Franzen & Hossa? Becareful how you answer, or you might be insane. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveyzerman 0 Report post Posted February 12, 2009 BOTTOM LINE: If we have to give up three or less players (that we could easily replace with Griffins) in order to keep Franzen & Hossa, MAKE IT HAPPEN. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
talex 1 Report post Posted February 12, 2009 Would you rather have Sammy & Flip over Franzen & Hossa? Becareful how you answer, or you might be insane. I would rather have Sammy and Flip + Hossa or Franzen rather than just Hossa + Franzen yes. Now realize my thoughts are based upon Sammys salary staying the same or slightly lowered if he is willing to, if Sammy wants 2.x or 3... well then I would say buh bye, if the Superstars are going to take some discounts to play on a great team, then the role players should do the same. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thedatsyukian 7 Report post Posted February 12, 2009 I would be extremely disappointed if we had to give up Hudler, he has huge potential unlike any other forward in our system. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mors 201 Report post Posted February 12, 2009 I would rather lose Filpula than Hudler. Otherwise this situation wouldn't bother me, Hossa & Franzen are worth it... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveyzerman 0 Report post Posted February 12, 2009 (edited) Hudler HAS huge potential & I love him. But Hossa IS huge potential. He is a force. & it seems like he's only getting better. Edited February 12, 2009 by steveyzerman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Echolalia 2,961 Report post Posted February 12, 2009 I would rather lose Filpula than Hudler. Otherwise this situation wouldn't bother me, Hossa & Franzen are worth it... I would almost rather lose Franzen than Hudler Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dat's sick 1,002 Report post Posted February 12, 2009 Who's going to Center the 2nd line if we don't have Flip, and we have Z and Pav on the 1st? Franzen? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heroes of Hockeytown 694 Report post Posted February 12, 2009 Who's going to Center the 2nd line if we don't have Flip, and we have Z and Pav on the 1st? Franzen? Hudler is a natural center. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sureWhyNot 19 Report post Posted February 12, 2009 Do not want. Give me Hossa/Franzen with Sammy and Hudler, and I'm happy. Losing three to keep one is a bad move in terms of depth. Do. Not. WANT. It's not a bad move in depth if you are talking about the one being Hossa - it also helps that we have guys that will be ready to step up from GR (Abdekater, Helm, Leino, etc) At this point I am praying nightly that we keep Hossa for a couple years. The idea of him, Dats, and Zetterberg being Wings, in their prime albeit, is to much to handle. I. Want. Now Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grim 5 Report post Posted February 12, 2009 ARE WE STILL GIVING DRAKE MONEY?! I don't think we'll be extending Nick's contract for five years. I'm pretty sure he has an age in mind when to stop. I can promise you he won't quit in the middle of a season. wrong again. Drake only signed a one-year deal. this is the same reason why Maltby and Draper will play out their contracts since retiring won't result in any cap relieft. you can also bet Lids will take one year deals from here on out. he knows Kenny needs flexibility for the team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA Report post Posted February 12, 2009 Huh? I'm sure you could have noticed I forgot to put "Keep" in between We and Flipulla. Even with the errors ( I was talking on the phone) My thoughts on the subject make more sense than yours with correct grammar. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
