Pens Exposed?

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I guess we shall see.

Yeah dude, we already did see. Remember last year? Nothing that happens this year changes last- that's already set in stone.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Malkin 16 Even Strength Points, 12 PPP +3

Crosby 19 Even Strength Points, 9 PPP +12

they do play defense, contrary to popular belief and they are not living off of the PP

Who cares if they aren't living off the PP? It still doesn't change the fact that 6 minutes per game with the man advantage is going to skew your offensive stats.

If you were to reduce Crosby and Malkin's PP minutes down to 3.5 per game - still more than any of our forwards play - Crosby would have 24 points, and Malkin would have 23. Great stats? Yes. But lets not pretend that Malkin and Crosby are working with the same tools as everyone else.

[Frozen-Man 144]

Malkin 16 Even Strength Points, 12 PPP +3

Crosby 19 Even Strength Points, 9 PPP +12

they do play defense, contrary to popular belief and they are not living off of the PP

They really don't play defense and they sure don't excel at it. That is why Crosby only has 3:13 shorthanded TOI for the entire playoffs but has 98:40 power play TOI (Malkin has less with 1:21 shorthanded TOI for the playoffs and 101:58 power play TOI). Those guys are not out when the team is shorthanded except by accident. Zetterberg, Datsyuk, and Flip all average more shorthanded time per game than Malkin has had the entire playoffs (and he has played more games than any of those guys). If their D was anything to brag about . . . at all . . . they would play on the PK some.

As for the belief that they are living off the power play depending on what you mean it is true. They are not scoring exclusively on the power play but they are not really scoring much more than a lot of other guys even strength. Here are some even strength stats:

1 Sidney Crosby 19 (17 games played)

2 Evgeni Malkin 16 (17 games played)

3 Dan Cleary 14 (16 games played)

4 Henrik Zetterberg 13 (16 games played)

5 Alex Ovechkin 13 (14 games played)

6 Johan Franzen 13 (16 games played)

BUT when you look at PP points Malkin is #1 with 12 and Crosby is tied for #3-5 with 9 yet Cleary Z and Mule aren't even in the top 10 Mule comes the closest tied at #8-18 (averaged at #13.5) with 6 PP points. Malkin and Crosby are feasting on PP points compared to any of the top Wings point players. Consider that 4 of the top 5 power play TOI per game are Penguins players (with Malkin and Crosby at #3 and #4 respectively) - NONE of the Wings players even crack the top 30 (the highest is Lids at #33). Furthermore, total PP TOI Malkin is #1 with 101:58 and Crosby is #2 with 98:40. The highest Wings player is almost half that, Mule has 55:55. You're not going to convince me that they are not feasting on PP time/opportunities/points. Malkin plays roughly 7,200% more on the power play than on the penalty kill, Crosby is not quite as bad at 3,163% more time on the power play than on the penalty kill. Yeah, they are monsters on defense and have not had their stats padded at all by the PP time.

[norrisnick 1]

They don't play enough defense, obviously, and I don't care what they live off.

This one's better...

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Like Mike said in a recent interview, he's obviously aware of the Pen's 4th line situation and he's not afraid to match up any of his D pairs against their top guys, no matter where they are playing. Or, in his own words, "We're not hiding anyone back there."

[Marty Midnight 0]

Like Mike said in a recent interview, he's obviously aware of the Pen's 4th line situation and he's not afraid to match up any of his D pairs against their top guys, no matter where they are playing. Or, in his own words, "We're not hiding anyone back there."

We'll be hiding Hal Gill occasionally, but that's about it.

[TCbrizz 2]

Malkin 16 Even Strength Points, 12 PPP +3

Crosby 19 Even Strength Points, 9 PPP +12

they do play defense, contrary to popular belief and they are not living off of the PP

They may play defense, but not very well. Malkin has 28 points alone but is only +3 without playing on the PK? that's your argument that he's a solid two way player?

[Drake_Marcus 890]

We'll be hiding Hal Gill occasionally, but that's about it.

Please don't! Zetterberg was looking forward to skating around him to draw the ill-timed penalty.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Skillzy is brutal. Frickin Kopecky would dance that big oaf.

[bcg51585 0]

one thing though about the Pens .. there PK has been really good since Bylsma took over, and has been lights out recently

It is a much better unit than the unit that kills 74 percent of penalties in motown.

The likes of Adams, Talbot, Staal, etc are very good on the PK. There is no reason to expense Crosby or Malkin on the PK. Sid or Geno often come out in the final 30 seconds or so (certainly not by accident) to force opponents to be cautious.

We wont see this much in the finals though, b/c Coach Byslma will realize the firepower of the Wings 2nd PP unit, and Bylsma will likely keep his go-to PKs on the ice for the full 120 seconds

[Konnan511 1,736]

Malkin 16 Even Strength Points, 12 PPP +3

Crosby 19 Even Strength Points, 9 PPP +12

They do play defense, contrary to popular belief and they are not living off of the PP

I disagree. Crosby plays a little Defense, Malkin just floats out there w/o the puck, kind of like AO. Crosby and Malkin are just THAT good offensively that it seems like they always have the puck out there on their shifts. Always having the puck does not mean playing defense. their +/- is quite misleading.

Malkin is out there for 16 goals for while even strength while being out there for 13 goals against. That's not good defense. That's what we call run and gun.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Konnan511

[Konnan511 1,736]

Who cares if they aren't living off the PP? It still doesn't change the fact that 6 minutes per game with the man advantage is going to skew your offensive stats.

If you were to reduce Crosby and Malkin's PP minutes down to 3.5 per game - still more than any of our forwards play - Crosby would have 24 points, and Malkin would have 23. Great stats? Yes. But lets not pretend that Malkin and Crosby are working with the same tools as everyone else.

You can't just average things and make up a new stat. It is what it is.

It's really not their fault they play so much on the PP. If they can handle all that extra time then let them. Who's to say if they play half as much time on the PP they wouldn't have fresher legs for their ES shifts and could put up that same amount of points with an extra jump in their step? I feel dirty defending them.....

[titanium2 867]

You can't just average things and make up a new stat. It is what it is.

It's really not their fault they play so much on the PP. If they can handle all that extra time then let them. Who's to say if they play half as much time on the PP they wouldn't have fresher legs for their ES shifts and could put up that same amount of points with an extra jump in their step? I feel dirty defending them.....

It's more about perception of the individual. You look at their point totals and think that they're playing insane. "They'll go to the hall of fame with those numbers!" When, really, it's like Ovechkin and his attempted shot totals. You see 56 goals and think "Wow! Insane!" but then look and see that if someone registered 528 shots in a year then a part of you has to think that they better score that much.

Even though they may not score as much as you'd think on the PP, every scoring chance you get brings you closer to a goal if you're a talent like Sid and Geno.

[soonboomer 31]

All I have to say is HUGE COACHING MISMATCH!!.......Wings in 6

[EuroTwin 240]

We'll be hiding Hal Gill occasionally, but that's about it.

:rotflmao:

[Drake_Marcus 890]

You can't just average things and make up a new stat. It is what it is.

It's really not their fault they play so much on the PP. If they can handle all that extra time then let them. Who's to say if they play half as much time on the PP they wouldn't have fresher legs for their ES shifts and could put up that same amount of points with an extra jump in their step? I feel dirty defending them.....

It's no accident that guys who suddenly get to play on the PP or get more time on the PP see their point totals increase. Why do you think guys wanna play on the PP so badly?

[MidMichSteve 1,115]

It's no accident that guys who suddenly get to play on the PP or get more time on the PP see their point totals increase. Why do you think guys wanna play on the PP so badly?

The thing that has me concerned is how often they are on the power play. Combine that with the 3 games in 4 days and Lidstrom and Pavel coming off injuries.

We had better play a near penalty-free game or there could be some heavy legs under the Wings.

[egroen 384]

Malkin has been virtually invisible every single game I have seen him play against the Wings - playoffs and regular season. I'll be very interested to watch how he plays.

[bellarina 1]

Aw, what the hell, I got off work early today.

Let's take Franzen and normalize his points and time on ice to compare him fairly with Crosby and Malkin, ok?

Sidney Crosby:

Even TOI = 16,026 sec

Even Pts= 9 G, 10 A

Even Pts/TOI = 5.6159x10^-4 G/sec , 6.2399x10^-4 A/s

PP TOI = 5,920 sec

PP Pts = 5 G, 4 A

PP Pts/TOI = 8.4459x10^-4 G/sec , 6.7568x10^-4 A/s

PK TOI = 193 sec

PK Pts = 0 G, 0 A

Totals= 14 G, 14 A, 28 pts

Evgeni Malkin:

Even TOI = 15,498 sec

Even Pts = 7 G, 9 A

Even Pts/TOI = 4.5167x10^-4 G/sec , 5.8072x10^-4 A/sec

PP TOI = 6,118 sec

PP Pts = 5 G, 7 A

PP Pts/TOI = 8.1726x10^-4 G/sec , 1.144x10^-3 A/sec

PK TOI = 93 sec

PK Pts = 0 G, 0 A

Totals= 12 G, 16 A, 28 pts

Johan Franzen:

Even TOI = 15,180 sec

Even Pts = 7 G, 6 A

Even Pts/TOI = 4.6113x10^-4 G/sec , 3.9526x10^-4 A/sec

PP TOI = 3,355 sec

PP Pts = 3 G, 3 A

PP Pts/TOI = 8.9419x10^-4 G/sec , 8.9419x10^-4 A/sec

PK TOI = 450 sec

PK Pts = 0 G, 0 A

Totals= 10 G, 9 A, 19 pts

Franzen Playing Crosby's Mins:

Points: 13 G, 11 A, 24 pts

Franzen Playing Malkin's Mins:

Points: 13 G, 11 A, 24 pts

So if Franzen got Malkin or Crosby's mins he'd have 24 pts. It's not as impressive as their 28 pts, but it's a 5 point difference over Franzen's current totals.

So for the guys here who say the minutes played aren't significant, well if you take a guy like Franzen and give him the extra PP time his totals jump by 26%. Is that realistic? Of course this stuff isn't so simple in real life, but the fact remains that minutes played have a definite effect on your point totals- especially PP time. In Detroit we see that with guys like Filppula who normally don't get PP time. Someone gets injured and suddenly Filppula's on the PP and producing points... Just look at Lebda- he's not a great d-man, but put him on the PP in Lidstrom's absence and he suddenly has more than 12 pts a year.

Don't mess with "The Drake" he'll stats you up.

Well done Drake!

[motorcitykid 42]

Our depth trumps most everything.

Ignore the hype. The Penguins HAVE NOT faced any team similar to Detroit. The goaltending. The experience. The skill. The right guys playing the RIGHT roles.

Every year we hear this bulls*** and we are disrespected. Ev. Ver. Ry. Year!

Yet every pro sports team wants to be us. Compared to us. Run like our organization is. There is a reason, once we get past the bulls*** hype machine that is the NHL, why we are the envy of everyone else.

When I put on that jersey before each game, I know what that jersey MEANS. Everyone inhere does as well. From Gordie and his wonderful family through Marion and Mike ... The Captain through Vladimir Konstantinov, Jiri Fischer ... Mike Vernon .. Ozzie's resilence .. Bowman .. The Russian Five ..... on and on and on .... we've all been together as fans, like brothers and sisters, yet most of us have never met. But we bleed Red Wing red like we breathe air to live. We are family.

I always wonder why people HATE the best sports teams. If my team scked, s***, I might not ROOT for another team much better than mine to win. But I sure as hell would respect them. And where should we start when talking about what's to envy about this organization??

It's a game - yes. But it's really much more than that. Geez, I see Stevie up in the press box these playoffs, I grin ear to ear and almost get teary-eyed. I LOVE this team!!

Let's stand together. Fight through adversity like only Red Wings can.

Four. More. W's!!!!!

Edited May 29, 2009 by motorcitykid

[j.hoop 64]

in addition to other players, i hope it becomes helms modus operandi to hammer crosby and malkin every single time he can, same for maltby and abdelkadar. that combined with sustanined 2 way pressure on them, i dont see how they can hold up very long.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Don't mess with "The Drake" he'll stats you up.

Well done Drake!

Thanks Bell!

[Dabura 12,232]

Why would they all of a sudden wear out now?

Because they'll be going from the likes of the Washington Capitals and Carolina Hurricanes to the Detroit Red Wings.

[Idoit40fans 0]

Because they'll be going from the likes of the Washington Capitals and Carolina Hurricanes to the Detroit Red Wings.

So 2 teams that have 18 players that play you physically to a team that has 5? They play full speed in all zones now, so where are the wings going to be wearing them down any more than they'll be wearing the older Wings down?

Edited May 30, 2009 by Idoit40fans

[Ms_Hockey 0]

So 2 teams that have 18 players that play you physically to a team that has 5? They play full speed in all zones now, so where are the wings going to be wearing them down any more than they'll be wearing the older Wings down?

It takes A LOT to wear the Wings down - old or not. And it certainly won't happen in just one game. Call it one of Detroit's uncanny abilities.. but they know how to go out there and play their game without overworking themselves so that they're dead on the ice.

The only disadvantage I see for Pittsburgh here is that their star players will have to be there star players and then some. They'll need that extra boost from the rest of the team in order to match the depth of the Wings. Depth isn't anything to scoff at. If the Pens can get more than three or four people going at top speed, they'll give us a hard earned run for our money. Otherwise.. I really don't see any advantage for the Pens at all.