Are we looking for the wrong players?

[Guest Four]

WTF?? what are you smoking? DIDNT PRODUCE? (see players in bold), are you only refering to the final game 7?? or the entire playoffs?? if its the entire playofffs, you dont know what the F*ck your saying!

Each player, at times didn't fulfill their role, more-so near the end. Franzen was great at the beginning and Filpulla was great throughout, but he also doesn't have a defined role yet. It's just in general, don't cry and throw on caps lock and add question marks and whatnot.

The Wings players need more defined roles. The whole everyone playing with everyone, and everyone playing in every situition was one of the big reasons the chemistry never clicked, and everyone got tired. The defensive game is important, but then why do the Wings spend 22 million of a 56 million cap on 4 defensemen? And if the Wings have two of the best penalty killers in Datsyuk and Zetterberg, why is the PK so bad?

I think Babcock needs to let the goal scorers score some goals, and let the 3rd and 4th liners kill the penalties. I love Maltby and Homer, but their very slow, and the Wings 4th line isn't a shut-down line, a speed line, or a grind line. It's just two 35 somethings and some 500,000 a year filler. Wings need some big guys in the line-up, younger versions of what they have now.

The powerplay was also pretty terrible in the finals. The Wings take way too many shots from the point and hope they go in. How many times in the regular season did we see Lidstrom and Rafa draw the defender in then Datysuk or Hossa snap a goal in? Happened all the time. Getting rid of Sammy on the PP is a start, but in the overall scheme of things, Franzen, Datsyuk and Zetterberg should be thinking of one thing, scoring and making plays. I think the whole defensive game is getting into their heads a little bit.

Great post! This is exactly how I feel, every player has every possible role on the team and creates way too much pressure. We just need a few different type of players to fill our gaps and allow the roles to be distributed more.

I can't wait to see Darren Helm next season - he is such a little wrecking ball, but has the hands to go with it. I think we are all going to be very pleased with his progression next season.

As for other guys, I would love to see Hudler on the team next year again. He adds some scoring depth, great hands, and it seems like he has a great rep. in the locker room - something that shouldn't be ignored.

Sammy can go as far as I am concerned. I was never on the bandwagon to run the guy out of town, in fact I think he was pretty valuable this season - but we have enough guys who can put the puck in the net. We need a new crop of the grind line, which should be built around Helm. Maybe Abdlekader can play on the wing with him, but another high energy BIG body would be awesome to round out a third line. I am not talking an enforcer, just a big body that wont back down. Max Talbot is the perfect example of the kind of guy we need.

Travis Moen is a UFA...any thoughts on him? I remember him being a ***** to play against in '07 with the Ducks, and he is still only 27

Another great post! I was talking to another Wings fan about Helm today and he loves him to; it seems about every Wings fan does. He is an instant favourite that could easily become a clutch player, who can lay the body, use his speed, and grind in the corners to create plays. His hands are getting better and better every game too and once he has a few seasons under his belt, he could definitely help shape in to his own personal role on the team. I completely agree on Talbot, as much as I'm bitter against him (and Scuderi >.>). We have the goal scorers, but are lacking the playmakers and the grinders to help contribute to the play; it actually looks like 5 shooters all passing the puck trying to get an open shot to the goalie on every powerplay, never setting up back-door passes and relying on the far-out shots.

Edited June 16, 2009 by Four

[NGKEIB 32]

Which is why I'd like to see Hudler/Sammy/Maltby replaced by Chris Neil/Helm/Abdelkader...Hossa is another whole topic for discussion

Thanks for showing why you're not the GM! I agree that Abdelkader might make a decent 4th-liner, but you're insane if you want him in a Wings uniform next year. He has potential to be much better, and he's not going to improve much playing 4 minutes a night in Detroit. Keep him in GR where he can get closer to 20 minutes a night.

Maltby counts as a pylon at this point. Anyone would be an upgrade.

I thought he played quite well in the playoffs. He's not meant to score goals, he's meant to kill penalties [check], irritate people [check] and throw his weight around. Let's not talk about his regular season...

[Z and D for the C 712]

we need the players who can get big hits and get assists, not score.

I think the opposite, we have enough players who can get assists, we need more pure goal scorers. Enter Hossa.

[Guest Four]

I think the opposite, we have enough players who can get assists, we need more pure goal scorers. Enter Hossa.

If we have all these great assistmen (lol not a word >.>), then how come a majority our goal scorers, including Hossa and Datsyuk not score much?

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I agree with most of what TheOwl said.

1. Too many players forwards playing on the PK to the point where it seems like a lot the guys that get PK time (Maltby, Franzen, Hossa) have gotten out of the habit of doing the little things right on the PK, simply because they play on the PK 45 seconds a game, instead of 2:45 seconds.

2. Too many top forwards focusing on defense instead of scoring. I loved Zetterberg's defensive work, but it got to the point where Franzen, Hossa, Filppula, Hudler, Datsyuk - the whole lot of them were more concerned about defending than they were about taking an offensive risk or two.

3. No. Third. Line. In the playoffs, this was rectified a bit, but during the regular season, and through portions of the playoffs (mainly due to the line juggling), the Wings would have 3 scoring lines, and the the Line of Futility. I'd like to see the Wings go back to having a bona fide 3rd line that hits, forechecks, cycles, and scores the odd goal. It makes no sense to be stacking the 3rd and 4th lines either with scoring forwards (Leino, Sammy, Hudler) or with pylons (Maltby, Draper, Kopecky). Kenny needs to find a couple more guys like Helm, and get back to having a 4 line team, where each line has its own role. Scoring. Secondary scoring. Energy. Utility.

[Yzerfan1999 81]

Sami Pahlsson is also a free agent. Him or Moen might be nice little additions in the place of Sammuelson.

[Kronthewall55 14]

I think the opposite, we have enough players who can get assists, we need more pure goal scorers. Enter Hossa.

i agree we need more pure goal scorers, but will hossa do that in the playoffs? no use having a goal scorer who doesn't make it happen when it matters most.

[Guest Crymson]

Dallas Drake was that piece.

I don't think so. Drake was a good grinder, but he was not some missing piece that won the team the Cup.

[clutchngrab 12]

Darren Helm. Justin Abdelkader.

Star power failed us, in my honest opinion. One goal in the last two games of the finals is huge. The role guys did their job, so I don't see how improving guys of that caliber could have helped us this year.

That said, I would love to get another fighter on the team.

I fighter would be nice, but not essential. I think all the pieces were there, but coming short 1 game when you have a better team comes down to who is playing and who is not. Babcock dropped the ball by playing safe instead of playing hungry.

[Stiffy 0]

I fighter would be nice, but not essential. I think all the pieces were there, but coming short 1 game when you have a better team comes down to who is playing and who is not. Babcock dropped the ball by playing safe instead of playing hungry.

Yea, like maybe someone could have actually gone to the net for all those damn juicy rebounds Flury was giving up? I saw a ten at least and no Wing in sight. You don't need superstars or role players to do that, just someone to tell the players about it if they can't figure it out on their own. For example, he could have said, "Hey Hossa, next time you take one of those dumb ass shots from the blue line instead of passing to a wide open Flip, why not wait a few seconds until another of our players is near the net - they just might get a rebound and you could end up with an assist!" I think I read somewhere that is what coaches do, adjust and tweak a strategy, especially when a team isn't producing, say like for the last two god damn games in a SCF.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

A lot of people on this board are searching for new players to overtake some of our "weak links", filling the gap somehow with new superstars. Our team already, is filled with superstars and if you want more superstars then our depth would be gone. To me, superstars are not the answer, we have enough in Hank, Pasha, Lidstrom, Raffi, and our up-and-coming stars to worry about signing the next Hossa. We need greater role players that will help give us the energy to keep competing in the playoffs, we need the players who can get big hits and get assists, not score. We have a lot of veteran players, but now we need the energy and thrive to get us to the end. Having all goal scorers doesn't always end well.

Discuss.

When most of your rosters stays intact after winning a Cup and coming just 1 win away from winning a 2nd straight, not much needs changing. Granted the roster will probably change some if Hossa is re-signed, many teams would kill to have the roster of the Wings in the grand scheme of things. The roster is fine, you can't win every year. As long as you have a roster that is competitive and consistently get the playoffs and make a serious threat to win it all at the very minimum, you're pretty well off.

[p_diddy_datsyuk_13 2]

There is no question the Red Wings are looking for grit. With Dallas Drake arguably being the 'X-Factor' last year, we did lack that intensity for most of the playoffs this year, with the exception being when Abdelkader decided to have one of his better games. Although, he lacks experience and could benefit from another year of conditioning in the AHL.

On another front, the Bruins seem likely to try to resign Phil Kessel, which means they could be looking to move a player or two to free up a little bit of space. With Milan Lucic being a free agent next year, and possibly commanding upwards of $3 Million he could be a possibility for a trade, where they would want to get whatever they can for him now. Lucic is a big body, which is a big plus, gritty and can handle the puck, not to mention he was a force in the playoffs physically. If the Wings' were to offer the rights to Hudler, or resign him first, along with a second or third round pick, they may be able to land Lucic. When next year rolls around, Nick Lidstrom would likely take a little bit of a pay cut, and Maltby's contract would be up which would free up space to resign him. I was very impressed with this guy during the season and playoffs this year and I really believe he would be a solid aquisition, especially looking toward the future, as he fits the mold of a Johan Franzen.

Another thought, would be trying to sign Ian Laperierre. He is not as big as Lucic, but fits the mold of a Dallas Drake, and he was the guy I was hoping of picking up at the deadline this year. He is not afraid to be physical and can put the puck in the net if given the opportunity. This guy has been a thorn in the Wings' side for a long time. The one stumbling block here would be price. He has already turned down an offer from the Avalanche and could be looking for around $2 Million a year, although I think it is more likely he will get less than $1.5 Million, given the economy among other things.

I think letting go of Hossa is a must. Just think, the Wings' won the Cup a year ago without Hossa, and they can do it again. The extra cap space needs to be used to resign a couple of guys and add one, preferably a player with a great deal of grit.

Here are a couple of options to add more grit, what does everyone else think?

[Travis 576]

I don't see Abdelkader or Leino as Red Wings just yet. We have the depth already to let them mature in Grand Rapids for another year.

I think Samuelsson is gone, maybe Hudler, though I would hate to see Hudler go. Not that he's much of a producer, but he represents the youth that we need.

Honestly, Lebda can go. I've never been a fan and he doesn't do anything to change my opinion of him.

In my opinion, too much is being made of what we lack. I know that no Cup is a failed season, but it's not like we finished .500 or something. Kenny is an evil genius and will get us everything he feels we need.

[p_diddy_datsyuk_13 2]

I don't see Abdelkader or Leino as Red Wings just yet. We have the depth already to let them mature in Grand Rapids for another year.

Leino has already said he won't play in GR another year, if he signs he want to play with the Wing's or return to Finland.

[Wombat 26]

You can't win the Cup every year. Circumstance kept the Wings from the Cup, but they got as humanly possible to winning the whole thing again as they could. I'd "stay the course" with the style they have, and look to bring in a couple low cost, gritty vets for the bottom 2 lines.

[egroen 384]

Just like 2007, I think if the Wings had a healthy squad we would have seen a completely different series against the Penguins -- you're never going to have everyone healthy (though we came close in 2008), but that was an unusual amount of injuries.

The injuries make a lot of sense now, looking back on the games;

Lidstrom and Rafalski were not very mobile -- They *are* our power play (no wonder it sucked)

Datsyuk was slow; Cleary was not going to the net; Holmstrom was wasted space; etc.

That's a big deal.

Next year's team will not be as deep, but if healthier, will still have a great shot.

If Hossa is willing to sign for Franzen money, that is just too much of a good deal to pass up. But I am skeptical Hossa would offer Detroit essentially a 50% discount.

With Hossa, Babcock needs to give up on pairing him with Datsyuk or Zetterberg -- it is ineffectual.

Keep Datsyuk and Zetterberg together no matter what -- you just do not mess with that kind of chemistry.

Franzen - Hudler/Filppula - Hossa is an outstanding two-way line and all those guys seem to click together --- play them all season and make it even better.

I am ready to give up on Kopecky -- they need someone who will not get his face broken in a fight.

Need a league-minimum type guy and Downey fits that bill.

Maltby will be gone after next year, and probably Holmstrom as well -- so you can get some young grit in at that time, for decent dollars.

[Mickeyisms Rule! 0]

I don't see Abdelkader or Leino as Red Wings just yet. We have the depth already to let them mature in Grand Rapids for another year.

I think Samuelsson is gone, maybe Hudler, though I would hate to see Hudler go. Not that he's much of a producer, but he represents the youth that we need.

Honestly, Lebda can go. I've never been a fan and he doesn't do anything to change my opinion of him.

In my opinion, too much is being made of what we lack. I know that no Cup is a failed season, but it's not like we finished .500 or something. Kenny is an evil genius and will get us everything he feels we need.

Leino will turn 26 at the beginning of this season. He has the professional background to be able to make it in the NHL.

07-08 he scored 77 points in 55 games in the Finnish Elite League and was their MVP. The same year in 14 playoff games he had 19 points. He has great hands and made huge strides to adjusting the the North American game. He's either going to be on the roster (bank on it) or he will be on another team this year.

If we don't resign Hossa, then Hudler will stay a wing, but I doubt there is any chance that Holland lets Leino go.

[Guest Four]

When most of your rosters stays intact after winning a Cup and coming just 1 win away from winning a 2nd straight, not much needs changing. Granted the roster will probably change some if Hossa is re-signed, many teams would kill to have the roster of the Wings in the grand scheme of things. The roster is fine, you can't win every year. As long as you have a roster that is competitive and consistently get the playoffs and make a serious threat to win it all at the very minimum, you're pretty well off.

Yes, but we lost because many players weren't producing.

What happens next year with the same team?

Just 2 new players could change the whole outlook on next years playoffs

[Broken 16 381]

I'm taking Downey over Malts any day.

And twice on Sunday.

[jmad 18]

A lot of people on this board are searching for new players to overtake some of our "weak links", filling the gap somehow with new superstars. Our team already, is filled with superstars and if you want more superstars then our depth would be gone. To me, superstars are not the answer, we have enough in Hank, Pasha, Lidstrom, Raffi, and our up-and-coming stars to worry about signing the next Hossa. We need greater role players that will help give us the energy to keep competing in the playoffs, we need the players who can get big hits and get assists, not score. We have a lot of veteran players, but now we need the energy and thrive to get us to the end. Having all goal scorers doesn't always end well.

Discuss.

this thread sounds like we missed the playoffs or something. We still have the best team in the league. I expect Helm, Leino, Erickson & Abs to provide a lot of that spark as their roles increase and the Drapers, Maltbys & Holmstroms decrease. Those young guys look ready to start making contributions just as they older boys are tailing out. Perfect timing, if you ask me.

I also don't understand why there seems to be a lot of talk about guys not producing in the playoffs. It sucks that Hossa couldn't find the back of the net, but you can't judge a player on such a small sample size.

[Guest Four]

this thread sounds like we missed the playoffs or something. We still have the best team in the league. I expect Helm, Leino, Erickson & Abs to provide a lot of that spark as their roles increase and the Drapers, Maltbys & Holmstroms decrease. Those young guys look ready to start making contributions just as they older boys are tailing out. Perfect timing, if you ask me.

I also don't understand why there seems to be a lot of talk about guys not producing in the playoffs. It sucks that Hossa couldn't find the back of the net, but you can't judge a player on such a small sample size.

Please read the whole thread, it's evident your have not.

Regardless, we lacked energy and the determination to win that we had last year and the missing pieces can give us that extra edge we need and play their roles to relieve pressure on our top players. Too many people were focused on defense and refused to take risks.

[Doc Holiday 0]

And twice on Sunday.

Now you're talking crazy.

[Stiffy 0]

Leino has already said he won't play in GR another year, if he signs he want to play with the Wing's or return to Finland.

As well he should. It is ridiculous. I can't take any more of this endless maturation process. Play him or trade him if he can't cut it. The guy came through huge when called up in the regular season and Cap crap aside earned a spot and could have used time up in the NHL to adjust and grow. He might have been far more effective in the playoffs had this happened. Any other team in the universe would start him and I'm sorry, it isn't like we have this full roster of world class players any more. There are plenty of Wings who earned a benching or a trip to GR themselves during the regular season. My take away from this whole year was bring up the kids more. It's good for them and it makes the veterans nervous and fight for their jobs. It's good all around.

[lomekian 201]

As ever we are waiting to see what the cap size for next year is, and how low hossa will go! For anywhere around 4 or 5 we'd be stupid not to bite. He's a two way, 40 goal scorer, with a decent playoff scoring history who had a bad year and cracked a little under the pressure of the unique situation he was in.

I agree entirely with the general principal of the discussions on this thread, but i think its a year too soon. Malts and Drapes are still contracted, and Lids is still earning big bucks. In a year we'll have at least 4 possibly 5 (if hossa stays) of our top 6 forwards tied up long term and the malts draper will ahve gone and lids salary will shrink if (pray) he stays.

This year we either keep hossa and lose sammy and huds or we don't and probably keep huds with sammy dependent on who's UFA. Cheli will be gone. I suspect Howard wil come up and Conklin will go having his reputation and earning power boosted by his stay in detroit. Meech will probably be gone too. Wouldn't mind seeing kopecky go either, but i think he'll stay at that price. Either way, our team next year will be at a similar level to this year, and once again injuries will dictate our playoff progress.