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Report: Hossa turns down Wings' offer

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Is Lucic a free agent????????? I would ink a guy like that in heart beat, give him more than hes worth, i love his style of play and he can still chip in offensivley. Would make losing Hossa a little less sour for me, but to my recolection, hes not a FA this year. I wish he were cause i think Boston is in bad as shape in the Cap space as we are....

I think he's signed thru next year, he just wanted a reference of guys who make under $1MM that could fill that role.

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No one is expecting him to do that. I'd be more hopeful for around 20-30 points as I expect him to get some 3rd line time. The simple fact is that Leino is cheaper and the Wings have the ability to make up for any offense lost with the possible departure of Hudler.

Leino's production should offset the loss of Samuelsson. Who's going to pick up the slack for Hudler?

The point is that we can't dump a guy like Hudler AND A guy like Hossa and expect some scrubs and rookies to stop the team from sliding- if you could do that then no team would worry about losing UFAs.

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Regarding Hudler...

If a bunch of armchair internet GM's can figure out that an offer of 2.0 to 2.5 million could be matched without forcing a salary dump than a team of well managed and experienced professionals can figure out that an offer of 2.9M would create all sorts of havoc and still not cost them a first round pick.

Edited by Glubki

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Regarding Hudler...

If a bunch of armchair internet GM's can figure out than offer of 2.0 to 2.5 million could be matched without forcing a salary dump than a team of well managed and experienced professionals can figure out that an offer of 2.9M would create all sorts of havoc and still not cost them a first round pick.

The luxury of matching the offer would still belong to Holland. If we dump Lilja and substitute Lebda in for him the Wings can afford to match an offer up to 3 million on Hudler. Furthermore, the cost of the 12th forward plays a big part here, and 500k guys can be had.

Regardless, RFA offers are few and far between. If a team thinks Hudler is worth 3 million to them odds are Holland might believe that too, or he might decide not to match it. It's not an act of brilliance on the offerers part. The more they offer Hudler the bigger risk they're taking.

Futhermore, if Holland could make this roster work with a 4 million dollar Hossa (the generally accepted value of the hit of his rumoured offer to Hossa), he can make it work with Hudler.

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This NEWS?? is not on Sportsnet.ca, TSN, nothing!!! Only Heatley to Oilers.... Penner,Cogliano and Smid to Sens

I hope this Hossa thing can be verified

It's buried on Sportsnet.ca's page. I can't find it through general browsing on their site (though, I may not be looking in the right place), but you can read the story here...

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2009/06/30/hossa_wings/

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Depends on what Hudler wants. If he's willing to sign short term for 2 million we're golden. Filppula took 3 million over the long term, so the selling point for Hudler is that he'll be able to renegotiate for a bigger amount once he hits his prime.

If you sign Hudler for 2 million $, Leino for $875,000 and trade Lebda we've got:

Zetterberg Datsyuk Cleary

Franzen Filppula Hudler

Leino Helm Holmstrom

Maltby Draper X

Lidstrom Rafalski

Kronwall Stuart

Ericsson Lilja

Meech

Osgood

Howard

With 1.15 million dollars left to sign Mr. X.

Well, thats all fine, but I guess my point is, if the likes of Hossa was willing to take an almost 35% paycut to stay here, maybe Hudler should consider it as well, so maybe we can have about $2 million to sign Professor X and maybe a minimum wager (Orr) for a 13th forward and keep Meech just on D. My point is, Hudler has to take a discount if some manhy Superstars did and were willing to. And what if someone does offer Hudler $3.0 million?

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I think he's signed thru next year, he just wanted a reference of guys who make under $1MM that could fill that role.

Lucic's a horrible example. He's been in the league 2 years, is 21 years old and the next contract he signs will be for more than $1mm/yr, and if I remember correctly, played in the young stars games in each of those seasons. This guy's on the way up. In what way does he resemble Dallas Drake other than in the effort he gives?

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The luxury of matching the offer would still belong to Holland. If we dump Lilja and substitute Lebda in for him the Wings can afford to match an offer up to 3 million on Hudler. Furthermore, the cost of the 12th forward plays a big part here, and 500k guys can be had.

Regardless, RFA offers are few and far between. If a team thinks Hudler is worth 3 million to them odds are Holland might believe that too, or he might decide not to match it. It's not an act of brilliance on the offerers part. The more they offer Hudler the bigger risk they're taking.

Futhermore, if Holland could make this roster work with a 4 million dollar Hossa (the generally accepted value of the hit of his rumoured offer to Hossa), he can make it work with Hudler.

In one case you are offering an elite player far below market value and in Hudler's case you would be pushing the envelope and be the team assuming the risk at close to 3M. Major difference in my opinion but we'll see how it shakes out over the next few days or weeks.

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The luxury of matching the offer would still belong to Holland. If we dump Lilja and substitute Lebda in for him the Wings can afford to match an offer up to 3 million on Hudler. Furthermore, the cost of the 12th forward plays a big part here, and 500k guys can be had.

Regardless, RFA offers are few and far between. If a team thinks Hudler is worth 3 million to them odds are Holland might believe that too, or he might decide not to match it. It's not an act of brilliance on the offerers part. The more they offer Hudler the bigger risk they're taking.

Futhermore, if Holland could make this roster work with a 4 million dollar Hossa (the generally accepted value of the hit of his rumoured offer to Hossa), he can make it work with Hudler.

If Hossa walks, the Wings may be able to literally afford 3 million on Hudler, but they definitely shouldn't. You cannot offer a guy like Hossa 4 mill, and if that falls through pay a guy like Hudler 3 million. At least that makes no sense to me. Best case is someone makes a good offer and we get the picks.

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Its really hard to debate with you without degrading your intelligence, if you have any. Let me spell it out for you:

Hudler at 2.5, Leino re-signing at the same salary, and trading Lebda, leaves us with 650k to sign a 12th forward, leaving Meech as the 7th and 13th. Happy cupcake?

And I dont have man love for Hudler. I wouldnt mind seeing him traded. Just not at the moronic price you suggest.

And that is STILL wasting your cap space. You got one guy filling both the 13th and 7th positions. And you have the UFA making $500,000, so now you only have $150,000 left. Lets see, Meech is filing in for an injured d-man and now Holmstrom goes down (like he has the past three seasons) now what? Yeah, you now have 11 forwards again, and no room to bring someone up. I am not debating whether or not Hudler is worth the $2.5m, I believe I started a thread showing how he is worth $3m or more, but with our limted cap space, it would be stupid to give him most of it. I don't make the rules on the compensation, that part sucks, but what else are you going to do? You cannot sink the rest of your cap space into one guy and expect to be healthy for the playoffs another long run in the playoffs. At least leave room to call someone up if needed to fill in for injuries... ie. Abby at $850,000...

and I suspect the amount of intelligence you have if you think the Wings can go all the way again with only having Meech backing everyone up...

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WASN'T MEANING TOO BUT STARTED NEW THREAD FROM POST FROM MLIVE:

Red Wings prepare for life without Marian Hossa

by Ansar Khan

Wednesday July 01, 2009, 12:05 AM

DETROIT -- As NHL free agency opens at noon Wednesday, the Detroit Red Wings are preparing for life without star forward Marian Hossa.

The club made Hossa a non-negotiable offer of a long-term deal worth $4 million a season. General manager Ken Holland said Tuesday evening that he hadn't spoken to Hossa's agent Ritch Winter.

"I'm not planning he's going to be here,'' Holland said. "I'm not expecting that call (from his agent). Would I like that call? Yes. I'm assuming they want to explore all their options.

"I'm not optimistic. I'm assuming on the open market he's going to get significant offers.''

Holland said if Hossa, who earned $7.45 million this past season, were to stay in Detroit, it would be at a "bargain-basement price'' because the Red Wings are roughly $3 million under the $56.8 million salary cap.

"They know where we're at,'' Holland said. "Would I be prepared to move a player or two to make some space? Maybe. But they have bigger hopes.''

Winter did not respond to phone messages.

Hossa led the Red Wings with 40 goals during the regular season but struggled in the playoffs, with six goals and nine assists in 23 games, including no goals and three assists in the seven-game Stanley Cup final against the Pittsburgh Penguins, the team he left to sign with Detroit last summer.

Hossa, 30, is one of the premier free agents who apparently will hit the open market today, perhaps attracting offers of $6 million a season or more. Los Angeles, Minnesota, Montreal, the New York Rangers and Vancouver, if it fails to re-sign twins Daniel and Henrik Sedin, are among the clubs rumored to have an interest in Hossa.

Samuelsson, Hudler talks

Holland made an offer to right wing Mikael Samuelsson, believed to be a slight increase from last season's $1.2 million salary. But Samuelsson is expected to explore the market and probably won't return.

"They got bigger aspirations than what I got (to offer),'' Holland said. "We'll talk one more time before noon (today).''

Samuelsson's agent, Rick Komarow echoed those sentiments.

"There's always a chance, but it's most likely he'll hit the market,'' Komarow said. "The issue is trying to find the right number for everybody. We're not there yet, and I'm not sure we'll get there.

"Sammy loves Detroit. It's been a great run.''

Without Hossa and Samuelsson, Holland will have a small amount of cap space to shop for a free agent, but he also has to leave some money for forward Jiri Hudler, a restricted free agent who is due a significant raise from his $1.15 million salary after posting career-high totals in goals (23) and points (57).

"We'll work the phones, got a little bit of (cap) space, but probably not going to be overly active,'' Holland said. "We'll explore the market for depth players, support players. The core of the team is in place.''

Holland has spoken to Hudler's agent, Petr Svoboda, exchanging numbers and discussing comparable players should he file for arbitration by Sunday's deadline.

"I can't go spend the money we have set aside for Hudler,'' Holland said.

He added, "(Svoboda) told me the area he thinks they're in. We see things a little differently, but I can't say we're dramatically apart. I got an idea of what it'll take to sign Hudler.''

Holland said he's informed the agents for forwards Darren McCarty and Aaron Downey that they won't be offered contracts for now, but he will stay in touch.

Winter told the Red Wings last weekend that another one of his clients, unrestricted free-agent forward Tomas Kopecky, will explore the market. He is likely to sign elsewhere.

....is what it says

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WASN'T MEANING TOO BUT STARTED NEW THREAD FROM POST FROM MLIVE:

Red Wings prepare for life without Marian Hossa

by Ansar Khan

Wednesday July 01, 2009, 12:05 AM

DETROIT -- As NHL free agency opens at noon Wednesday, the Detroit Red Wings are preparing for life without star forward Marian Hossa.

The club made Hossa a non-negotiable offer of a long-term deal worth $4 million a season. General manager Ken Holland said Tuesday evening that he hadn't spoken to Hossa's agent Ritch Winter.

"I'm not planning he's going to be here,'' Holland said. "I'm not expecting that call (from his agent). Would I like that call? Yes. I'm assuming they want to explore all their options.

"I'm not optimistic. I'm assuming on the open market he's going to get significant offers.''

Holland said if Hossa, who earned $7.45 million this past season, were to stay in Detroit, it would be at a "bargain-basement price'' because the Red Wings are roughly $3 million under the $56.8 million salary cap.

"They know where we're at,'' Holland said. "Would I be prepared to move a player or two to make some space? Maybe. But they have bigger hopes.''

Winter did not respond to phone messages.

Hossa led the Red Wings with 40 goals during the regular season but struggled in the playoffs, with six goals and nine assists in 23 games, including no goals and three assists in the seven-game Stanley Cup final against the Pittsburgh Penguins, the team he left to sign with Detroit last summer.

Hossa, 30, is one of the premier free agents who apparently will hit the open market today, perhaps attracting offers of $6 million a season or more. Los Angeles, Minnesota, Montreal, the New York Rangers and Vancouver, if it fails to re-sign twins Daniel and Henrik Sedin, are among the clubs rumored to have an interest in Hossa.

Samuelsson, Hudler talks

Holland made an offer to right wing Mikael Samuelsson, believed to be a slight increase from last season's $1.2 million salary. But Samuelsson is expected to explore the market and probably won't return.

"They got bigger aspirations than what I got (to offer),'' Holland said. "We'll talk one more time before noon (today).''

Samuelsson's agent, Rick Komarow echoed those sentiments.

"There's always a chance, but it's most likely he'll hit the market,'' Komarow said. "The issue is trying to find the right number for everybody. We're not there yet, and I'm not sure we'll get there.

"Sammy loves Detroit. It's been a great run.''

Without Hossa and Samuelsson, Holland will have a small amount of cap space to shop for a free agent, but he also has to leave some money for forward Jiri Hudler, a restricted free agent who is due a significant raise from his $1.15 million salary after posting career-high totals in goals (23) and points (57).

"We'll work the phones, got a little bit of (cap) space, but probably not going to be overly active,'' Holland said. "We'll explore the market for depth players, support players. The core of the team is in place.''

Holland has spoken to Hudler's agent, Petr Svoboda, exchanging numbers and discussing comparable players should he file for arbitration by Sunday's deadline.

"I can't go spend the money we have set aside for Hudler,'' Holland said.

He added, "(Svoboda) told me the area he thinks they're in. We see things a little differently, but I can't say we're dramatically apart. I got an idea of what it'll take to sign Hudler.''

Holland said he's informed the agents for forwards Darren McCarty and Aaron Downey that they won't be offered contracts for now, but he will stay in touch.

Winter told the Red Wings last weekend that another one of his clients, unrestricted free-agent forward Tomas Kopecky, will explore the market. He is likely to sign elsewhere.

....is what it says

...and if Holland gives Hudler most of his available cap, then maybe he isn't the genius we all thought he was...

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For what it is worth:

http://twitter.com/Trencin10

Maybe it isn't him though.

It probably was him. That page is gone now... Looks like (via google) various sites including Eklund had picked up on that account and were posting links to it. And a few hours later it disappears? Sounds like he was told to shut up about it. Haha. He only had 50 something followers when I clicked your link at the time you posted it, so odds were that his rumour cracked that account open to the public.

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In one case you are offering an elite player far below market value and in Hudler's case you would be pushing the envelope and be the team assuming the risk at close to 3M. Major difference in my opinion but we'll see how it shakes out over the next few days or weeks.

It is a difference. But it should be noted that Hudler's market value is around 3M, and the biggest difference here is that a Hudler deal at 3M would either be ridiculously long or very short. If it's short you're paying for the luxury of not committing to a long contract and Hudler knows he'll be able to renegotiate a contract while in is prime. If Hudler signs a really long contract he'd be crazy since he's trending upwards and has a reasonable projected value at his prime of more than 3M.

He's a 57pt scoring 25 year old. He has plenty of upside.

If someone offers him a sheet it will likely be 2.5 million, in which case the Wings would match it. I don't see many teams taking a bigger risk on Hudler given the recent history of offer sheets and their success.

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Well, thats all fine, but I guess my point is, if the likes of Hossa was willing to take an almost 35% paycut to stay here, maybe Hudler should consider it as well, so maybe we can have about $2 million to sign Professor X and maybe a minimum wager (Orr) for a 13th forward and keep Meech just on D. My point is, Hudler has to take a discount if some manhy Superstars did and were willing to. And what if someone does offer Hudler $3.0 million?

Let's be fair about Hossa's supposed massive paycut... a long term deal that averages out at 4 million a year can be structured such that the first 6 years he's being paid an average of a bit more than 7 million a season. Once he turns 36 years old, that number drops to get the cap hit down. The particular deal I'm referencing there was quoted on Red Wings Snapshots. The point is that while Hossa's cap hit would be around 4 million, he'd be getting a yearly salary in excess of 7 million dollars for the rest of his prime hockey years. Given his bad knees, saying he'll be worth 7 million after age 36 is a stretch.

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Let's be fair about Hossa's supposed massive paycut... a long term deal that averages out at 4 million a year can be structured such that the first 6 years he's being paid an average of a bit more than 7 million a season. Once he turns 36 years old, that number drops to get the cap hit down. The particular deal I'm referencing there was quoted on Red Wings Snapshots. The point is that while Hossa's cap hit would be around 4 million, he'd be getting a yearly salary in excess of 7 million dollars for the rest of his prime hockey years. Given his bad knees, saying he'll be worth 7 million after age 36 is a stretch.

Knees aren't "bad" because they've been injured twice in his career (including juniors) to such an extent that it caused him to miss games.

An intentional knee-to-knee hit blew out his knee when he was with the Winter Hawks and he sprained his MCL (not badly) in his first game with the Penguins. Any other "injury" to his knees has been so inconsequential that it's not even worth mentioning.

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Hossa... <3

I'll miss you playing with Mule and Fil. You three were good together, too bad we didn't figure that out for a while.

Also, doesn't Huds have to accept said theoretical lucrative offer sheet? Can't he just say, 'thanks no thanks' and go on his happy way without any damage or theoretical lucrative counter-offer sheets?

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Hossa... <3

I'll miss you playing with Mule and Fil. You three were good together, too bad we didn't figure that out for a while.

Also, doesn't Huds have to accept said theoretical lucrative offer sheet? Can't he just say, 'thanks no thanks' and go on his happy way without any damage or theoretical lucrative counter-offer sheets?

Yep, unless the player actually signs it the ofer sheet means nothing.

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http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/ccustance.tsn/194440/

Discussions between Hossa and Wings will continue

Filed under: DetroitRedWings MarianHossa

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COMMENTS 0 Sporting News - User Comments

Jul 01, 2009 12:30 AM report abuse

The chances of Marian Hossa signing with the Red Wings aren't great, but it still could happen. Despite reports on the eve of free agency that Hossa had turned down an offer from the Red Wings, the possibility of a deal still exists.

An NHL source told SportingNews.com late Tuesday night that discussions between the two sides will continue.

It's not an issue of either side wanting to get a deal completed, it's a matter of finding common ground. The Red Wings would like to keep Hossa at a annual salary cap number in the $4 million range, which would be considerably less than he'd earn on the open market.

He earned $7.45 million this season and led the Red Wings with 40 goals. It's safe to assume he'd be worth at least that much if he's willing to explore the idea of playing for teams with money to spend like the Los Angeles Kings or Minnesota Wild.

On Tuesday, Detroit GM Ken Holland didn't sound like a GM on the verge of getting a deal done.

"I'm not optimistic," Holland told the Detroit Free Press' Helene St. James. "I've told [Hossa's agent] Ritch Winter we'd love to keep him, but he's hoping to do a lot better than what we're able to do."

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