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Drake_Marcus

NHL Investigating Hossa & Pronger's contracts

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Two extra years may not sound like a big deal, but they are when you are already 40 years-old.

It is much easier to make a case that Zetterberg and Franzen will be playing at 40 in the final years of their contracts (Detroit points to Lidstrom, Chelios, Yzerman, Larionov, Hull, Thomas, Hasek, etc... ) than Hossa will be at the age of 42 (Chicago points to ????).

Those two extra years Hossa has stacked ON TOP of Zetterberg's and Franzen's bring his cap hit down by almost $1m per year.

All three contracts are obviously trying to circumvent the cap - but one goes a good distance beyond the other two.

It's very hard for me to sit here and say that Chicago shouldn't be able to play "our" game because they don't have the over 40 crowd we do? Sorry, that just doesn't do it for me. I know it's nice to think that we're just better than everyone and we can get away with anything, but I'm not going to trash other teams for playing our game even if taken to a further extreme. Because after all, it's not "our game," it's a glitch in the system that perhaps we exploited first and luckily enough, we got away with it. If they tried to pull the deal off next year for Z after this, we'd probably face the same empty stare down from the league. All cases cited are extreme cases of pushing the rules of the cap. It is what it is. Everything else is just getting petty.

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It's very hard for me to sit here and say that Chicago shouldn't be able to play "our" game because they don't have the over 40 crowd we do? Sorry, that just doesn't do it for me. I know it's nice to think that we're just better than everyone and we can get away with anything, but I'm not going to trash other teams for playing our game even if taken to a further extreme. Because after all, it's not "our game," it's a glitch in the system that perhaps we exploited first and luckily enough, we got away with it. If they tried to pull the deal off next year for Z after this, we'd probably face the same empty stare down from the league. All cases cited are extreme cases of pushing the rules of the cap. It is what it is. Everything else is just getting petty.

Just start listing me players who have played to 42 -- you're going to run out very quick.

40 is not nearly as difficult, on the Red Wings team alone even.

If 40 is pushing it, 42 is raping it.

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Pronger Contract Under Review Too

Blog: KK Hockey By Paul

07/31/09 at 01:22 PM ET | Comments (0)

from Craig Custance of the Sporting News,

Marian Hossa’ contract isn’t the only one being scrutinized by the NHL. An NHL source told SportingNews.com that the league is investigating Philadelphia’s 7-year deal with Chris Pronger to see if it circumvented the CBA and salary cap.

NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly confirmed the investigation of Pronger’s contract in an e-mail to SportingNews.com.

Daly said Pronger’s contract was being investigated for the same reasons as Hossa’s deal.

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I don't care if it is the Hawks. If they got around the Cap and didn't break the rules, good on them.

They couldn't penalize the Hawks. They've done nothing wrong. This is probably a sign that the NHL is going to move to close the loophole as soon as they can - and making an example of the Hawks would be the easiest way of doing that. Still not sure how they can prove anything...

It's still ridiculous that they acted within the rules and are getting punished for it.

I'm definitely not a business guy because I don't see this story. So what if they discussed retirement? They would just be playing by the rules of the CBA.

You are all acting upon the assumption that they did not break the rules BUT there is a specific provision in the CBA which states that

Article 26 is designed to prohibit and prevent conduct that Circumvents the terms of this Agreement.

That is what the investigation is all about whether or not they violated the provisions of Article 26. Probably what they will cite if they find that they did is:

26.3 Circumventions.

(a) No Club or Club Actor, directly or indirectly, may: (i) enter into any

agreements, promises, undertakings, representations, commitments, inducements,

assurances of intent, or understandings of any kind, whether express, implied, oral or

written, including without limitation, any SPC, Qualifying Offer, Offer Sheet or other

transaction, or (ii) take or fail to take any action whatsoever, if either (i) or (ii) is intended

to or has the effect of defeating or Circumventing the provisions of this Agreement or the

intention of the parties as reflected by the provisions of this Agreement, including

without limitation, provisions with respect to the financial and other reporting obligations

of the Clubs and the League, Team Payroll Range, Player Compensation Cost

Redistribution System, the Entry Level System and/or Free Agency.

(i) Any act by a Club Actor that, if committed by the Club would

constitute a Circumvention, shall be imputed to the Club and shall

be deemed to be a Circumvention by the Club.

(b) No Player or Player Actor, directly or indirectly, may: (i) enter into any

agreements, promises, undertakings, representations, commitments, inducements,

assurances of intent, or understandings of any kind, whether express, implied, oral or

written, including without limitation, any SPC, Qualifying Offer, Offer Sheet or other

transaction, or (ii) take or fail to take any action whatsoever, if the Player knows or

reasonably should have known (measured by the objective standard of the "reasonable

Player under the circumstances") that either (i) or (ii) is intended to and has the effect of

defeating or Circumventing the provisions of this Agreement or the intention of the

parties as reflected by the provisions of this Agreement, including without limitation,

provisions with respect to the Team Payroll Range, the Entry Level System and/or Free

Agency.

The NHL found (or decided not to investigate because it was not as egregious or they had no proof) that the Wings did not violate Article 26 of the CBA when they signed Z and Mule. however, they are still looking into Hossa (probably either because they have a rat or because of the two extra years).

Just start listing me players who have played to 42 -- you're going to run out very quick.

40 is not nearly as difficult, on the Red Wings team alone even.

If 40 is pushing it, 42 is raping it.

Exactly, pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered.

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If this happens to the Wings it'll be ridiculous. People laugh now because it's the Hawks but this is just the beginning.

It's still ridiculous that they acted within the rules and are getting punished for it.

QFT

this pisses me off so bad I can't even form logical statements right now.

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Pronger's contract itself is punishment enough -- in the likely event that Pronger does not play until the age of 42, Philly will still have his cap hit on the books (because his contract goes into affect after he turns 35).

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Pronger's contract itself is punishment enough -- in the likely event that Pronger does not play until the age of 42, Philly will still have his cap hit on the books (because his contract goes into affect after he turns 35).

Then I don't understand why the league is investigating. . . unless it is about something other than circumventing the cap because Philly is on the hooks for the life of the contract.

Aaaaaah, I figured it out. . . the NHL wants to add a clause to Pronger's contract that when Crosby has his head down and Pronger has him in his sights to take that whiny ***** out, Pronger must scream, "Head up, Sid! Head up, Sid!" and then skate right by him. It's the new league-mandated no-contact rule for Crosby.

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The NHL has already approved Hossa's contract (and Z's and Franzen's etc) so I don't see how it could posibly be about the length and terms of the contract. They'd look pretty stupid saying it's not a good contract now after approving it already. It has nothing to do with that so I don't know why all of the comparisons about them.

They are investigating rumors that the Hawks and Hossa talked about a specific time of retirement which is circumventing the cap and illegal.

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Just start listing me players who have played to 42 -- you're going to run out very quick.

40 is not nearly as difficult, on the Red Wings team alone even.

If 40 is pushing it, 42 is raping it.

Any deal over 6-7 years is pushing it no matter how you shake it. I'm not going to ***** about Chicago when no doubt 29 other teams were bitching about us when we signed Franzen and Z in the same manner. Like I said, I don't really like any of the deals when it really shakes down. Sure, I'm not pissing and moaning about benefiting from it and I'd sign Hossa in a heartbeat to the same deal with the Wings, but I'm not going to be upset when the league cuts the ability to do this kind of tinkering out completely.

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No further responses are necessary after nelson. . . excellent

Edited by MadMan Mark

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Hossa's contract was approved by the NHL -- What we have here is a squeeler! Sweet!

Someone within or close to the Chicago organization is tattling (over the retirement talk), or they would have absolutely nothing to go on and certainly would not have made this public.

There's a lot of bad blood in and out of that office. Classic case of "Who Dunnit?"

Tallon or one of his minions? - everyone knows Tallon wanted to sign Havlat and not Hossa.

Who's the rat?

Gotta be Havlat!!! :scared::scared:

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From MLIVE:

The NHL has no problems with Red Wings' long-term contracts with Henrik Zetterberg, Johan Franzen

While the NHL is investigating the contracts of Chicago Blackhawks forward Marian Hossa and Philadelphia Flyers defenseman Chris Pronger because the contracts seem to stray into, "You can't possibly play until you're 42" territory, ESPN's Scott Burnside reports that the Red Wings are not under investigation for Henrik Zetterberg and Johan Franzen's "lifetime" twelve-year and ten-year contracts, respectively:

July 31, ESPN: For a number of years the NHL has been warning GMs that the league will be watching these kinds of front-loaded, long-term contracts -- a warning that was expressly made again at the general managers meetings in Florida in March -- to try to curb what agents and GMs acknowledge is a loophole in the current collective bargaining agreement.

Although most people point to contracts tendered by the Detroit Red Wings earlier this year to top players like Henrik Zetterberg (12 years) and Johan Franzen (11 years) as other examples of what the league is trying to eradicate, it's believed the NHL has examined those deals and concluded they were negotiated within the spirit of the CBA.

Still, numerous sources believe the NHL's investigation is nothing more than a chill tactic by the league to try to bring GMs to heel.

These sources point out that both the Pronger and Hossa contracts were registered by the league which, they believe, suggests the contracts are compliant with the CBA.

If the league does try to sanction either of these teams, watch for the NHLPA to involve itself as it will view such punitive action as a move by the league to limit players' rights.

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Gotta be Havlat!!! :scared::scared:

I more I think about this...He did say on his Twitter account that the "truth" will be coming out about what happened in Chicago!! haha!

Oh the conspiracy theorist in me loves this.

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I more I think about this...He did say on his Twitter account that the "truth" will be coming out about what happened in Chicago!! haha!

Oh the conspiracy theorist in me loves this.

lol, that would be hilarious, but how would he have been part of the negotiations or known?

i mean obviously we all knew it, but him providing solid proof would seem difficult..

DARMA

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I have to agree that proving collusion wil be difficult. Quite honestly it will be fun watching Hossa wallow in Chi for the remainder of his career. Their foolish off-season moves, i.e. signing Hossa to a looooooong-term deal, F-ing up their qualifying offers to RFA's, not addressing their mediocre D and goalie issues, etc, cost them their competitive future.

If penalties are applied, just add that to the list of:

1. Smashed against the cap currently

2. Lower cap (most likely) next year

3. Stuck with Campbell and Huet's contracts

4. Penalties applied to next year's cap for bonus overages

and the best one

5. Inability to sign as many RFA's next year as they want.

I've said it before, Chi dropped their pants this off-season, and the league is now laughing at them, well, at least I am. If you are a Hawks fan you went from jubilation to scratching your head to WTF!

This years mistakes dont appear to be Talons, even though he said he would take the heat for the free agent mailings screw ups, and of course like mentioned Havlat was who Talon wanted to sign, not Hossa. Looks like the new Braintrust in Chicago isnt so good after all. I love it. I`ll be so stoked if Chicagos new high powered offense is let down by its defense and goaltending in the playoffs while we keep going. I want someone to throw patricia kanes mouthpiece onto the ice again this year too.

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The NHL has already approved Hossa's contract (and Z's and Franzen's etc) so I don't see how it could posibly be about the length and terms of the contract. They'd look pretty stupid saying it's not a good contract now after approving it already. It has nothing to do with that so I don't know why all of the comparisons about them.

They are investigating rumors that the Hawks and Hossa talked about a specific time of retirement which is circumventing the cap and illegal.

All the more reason to get rid of Bettman and start doing things properly.

IMO the league has looked bad over the blatant Pittsburgh Crosby bias over the Wings, the way they have handled the whole KHL problem, and now this contract stuff. You better make it clear in the rules, because once there rules, its peoples job to make the best contract work out for their own benefits. If it says its not illegal in the rules, its not illegal.

Edited by Probie

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I guess it's how and when you enforce rules that are on the books. . . kind of like instigator penalties on superstars in the Finals.

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All the more reason to get rid of Bettman and start doing things properly.

IMO the league has looked bad over the blatant Pittsburgh Crosby bias over the Wings, the way they have handled the whole KHL problem, and now this contract stuff. You better make it clear in the rules, because once there rules, its peoples job to make the best contract work out for their own benefits. If it says its not illegal in the rules, its not illegal.

Slow down there mister. We didn't all go to law school. Are you saying that rules outline everything that is legal?

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