Yzerman or Lidstrom

[zetterbergfan 23]

Which of the two had a bigger impact on the history of this franchise?

Let me first say, I grew up a huge Steve Yzerman fan. That being said, my answer is Lidstrom. We have won four Cups because he is solid for 30+ minutes a game. While Yzerman was one of the biggest contributors in 97,98, 02 runs, I don't think that his absence would have hurt the Wings as much as Lidstroms. The Wings had alot of leadership on those Championship teams as well.

Blasphemy isn't it?

I think the demise of this dynasty as we know it begins the day Nicklas Lidstrom hangs em up.

[ShanahanMan 473]

Which of the two had a bigger impact on the history of this franchise?

Let me first say, I grew up a huge Steve Yzerman fan. That being said, my answer is Lidstrom. We have won four Cups because he is solid for 30+ minutes a game. While Yzerman was one of the biggest contributors in 97,98, 02 runs, I don't think that his absence would have hurt the Wings as much as Lidstroms. The Wings had alot of leadership on those Championship teams as well.

Blasphemy isn't it?

I think the demise of this dynasty as we know it begins the day Nicklas Lidstrom hangs em up.

I love Lidstrom, but I respectfully and completely disagree. Stevie Y was (and some argue still is) the face of this franchise from the mid 80's until his retirement. You think Wings, you think Stevie Y (or maybe Howe). I don't think that will ever change.

[Guest micah]

Great topic.

I say Yzerman was the better Captain, Lidstrom the better player. Yzerman with the bigger impact. Yzerman was not always a great Captain, in fact for the first few years he looked like a bad Captain. I wonder what Captain Lidstrom would have looked like had he been handed the C at 21, and I wonder what he would like today had he spent his early years under the tutilage of Captain Gallant rather than Captain Yzerman. I don't know the answer.

I don't recall the Wings ever seriously considering trading Lidstrom away, which is a fair argument that Lidstrom is/was seen as more valuable.

I like both of them, I love(d) Yzerman, and I say the answer is Yzerman - but I can't really argue with thise who would conclude otherwise. It's kinda like asking "which is less valuable to you, your arms or your legs?" Sure you could live without either, but it wouldn't be an easy or pleasant thing.

[Carman 387]

I'll take Yzerman for the bigger impact on the Detroit Red Wings, on the sole fact that he was the heart and soul of the team before we emerged as one of the greatest franchises in NHL history.

But if you were to ask me who was a better player overall I would say Lidstrom, he has been unquestionably the most dominate defenseman of the past 20 years. Yzerman was great, but he was a notch below Gretzky and Lemieux in his generation.

Eh just my 2 cents.

[zetterbergfan 23]

I love Lidstrom, but I respectfully and completely disagree. Stevie Y was (and some argue still is) the face of this franchise from the mid 80's until his retirement. You think Wings, you think Stevie Y (or maybe Howe). I don't think that will ever change.

I agree with that, but would Steve Yzerman be remembered as a champion if it weren't for Lidstrom?

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

I started a thread last summer about who'll go down higher all time in the rankings, and most people picked Lidstrom.

However, when it comes to impact on the organization, it's Yzerman easily. Best captain ever and a guy who carried this franchise for a long time by himself. Lidstrom has never had to carry a team by himself. Also, he doesn't have the God-like status amongst Wings fans that Yzerman does. Just look at how many people wear Yzerman jerseys and how many wear Lidstrom jerseys.

You could easily say that Lidstrom was the better player for the last 6 or 7 yeard of Yzerman's career, and the most important player on the team even, but as far as all-time importance, it would still be Yzerman by a landslide.

[ShanahanMan 473]

I agree with that, but would Steve Yzerman be remembered as a champion if it weren't for Lidstrom?

Hmm.....hard to say on that one. I gotta admit, theres a good chance that without Lids being there, we wouldnt have won any of our cups! But, I do still think he'd be remembered as a champion with or without Lidstrom and the cups. He was just simply a "model" player, and exactly what the Wings needed after the s***storm that was the 70's. I mean, Marcel Dionne is still considered a champion, and I don't think he ever won a cup.

Edited August 3, 2009 by ShanahanMan

[Chunkylover 26]

I think Yzerman has largely contributed to Lidstrom being such a good captain. He's a great player on his own and might have been a good leader without growing up under Yzerman, but we'll never know. Given that Nick himself has attributed his success to Yzerman, I'd say he was the better captain. However you can't question the results of Nick's captaincy: 3 straight WCF appearances, 2 straight SCF appearances, and 1 Cup in three years.

I believe that this team learned well from guys like Yzerman, Larionov, Hull, Vernon, and Shanahan and we're still enjoying the effects of having them in Detroit. What's key is how well Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Cleary, Kronwall, Stuart, and Rafalski can retain that winning competitiveness and pass it on to the Helms, Abdelkaders, Ferraros and Leinos.

[p_diddy_datsyuk_13 2]

Y

[Lidstrom for life 20]

I started a thread last summer about who'll go down higher all time in the rankings, and most people picked Lidstrom.

However, when it comes to impact on the organization, it's Yzerman easily. Best captain ever and a guy who carried this franchise for a long time by himself. Lidstrom has never had to carry a team by himself. Also, he doesn't have the God-like status amongst Wings fans that Yzerman does. Just look at how many people wear Yzerman jerseys and how many wear Lidstrom jerseys.

You could easily say that Lidstrom was the better player for the last 6 or 7 yeard of Yzerman's career, and the most important player on the team even, but as far as all-time importance, it would still be Yzerman by a landslide.

I agree 100%. Lidstrom is my favorite player of all time but there is no question Yzerman means more to the franchise.

[egroen 384]

As most are saying - Lidstrom is the better player but Yzerman trumps him for importance to the franchise.

[zetterbergfan 23]

I'm really not debating who the best Captain/leader is. I think that Yzerman is the greatest Captain ever...

Let me put it this way: How would the history of this franchise be different if they hadn't drafted Yzerman? Lidstrom? There are alot of "ifs" that you could through into that, but I think the team truly became a dynasty when Lidstrom came into the league. Before that?

[BeeRYCE 2]

Yzerman's presence turned the franchise around completely. His leadership and ability to compete was something that the Wings were able to build around, without his presence... I do not believe we have 3, hell... 4 cups in the expansion era at all. Maybe, by some divine miracle, or some other turn of events we would have won those cups... But he is a huge reason why we have the fanbase we do... Not only in the Detroit area, but by all NHL fans in the world.

Lidstrom on the other hand? It's a different story. He's not the one who turned the franchise around, but he is the one who helped the back end of course. We have had a solid powerplay for the last 15 years because of him, and overall a solid team due to his presence.

However, with all respect due to Lidstrom... Stevie Y had the bigger impact on this franchise.

[Guest Shoreline]

Yzerman, x100. Lidstrom is the backbone of this team now, but without Yzerman, there is no 97/98/2002 cup, no 95 finals. No one could ever underestimate how much an impact Stevie Y had on this team, the fans, North America, etc.

The great thing about Stevie Y is he helped pave the way for the leadership this team has today -- so his impact still occurs even though he's not playing anymore. I don't doubt the Wings will be hurting when Lidstrom retires, but he will pass the torch to another great leader-in-the-making, Henrik Z.

Edited August 3, 2009 by Shoreline

[Reds4Life 51]

Lidstrom is the (much) better player. As for captain, I can't tell. Lidstrom is definitely the more important player though.

[BeeRYCE 2]

Also not to mention, some notable players that describe Stevie as an inspiration are Crosby, Spezza, Thornton, Stamkos, Toews, Marleau, etc, etc, etc... Bottom line, Yzerman influenced a lot of the top North American players in the game today. Without him, who knows? A lot of these guys wouldn't be playing.

[LeftWinger 4,965]

Yzerman's presence turned the franchise around completely. His leadership and ability to compete was something that the Wings were able to build around, without his presence... I do not believe we have 3, hell... 4 cups in the expansion era at all. Maybe, by some divine miracle, or some other turn of events we would have won those cups... But he is a huge reason why we have the fanbase we do... Not only in the Detroit area, but by all NHL fans in the world.

Lidstrom on the other hand? It's a different story. He's not the one who turned the franchise around, but he is the one who helped the back end of course. We have had a solid powerplay for the last 15 years because of him, and overall a solid team due to his presence.

However, with all respect due to Lidstrom... Stevie Y had the bigger impact on this franchise.

Let me first say I am a HUGE YZerman fan, always have been. I remember the day he was drafted, I was so glad we got him instead of LaFontaine falling to us, with that being said, I have to put a different angle on this debate. While you state that Yzerman completely turned this franchise around, and another user stated that without Yzerman we have no Cups in 97/98/02. I have repectfully disagree with you guys. Sure Yzerman was a great player and the organization TRIED to build around him, I say tried because you look at all the failures that lead us to here. Probert, Sheppard, Klima, Sharples, BUrr, Houda, Murphy (Joe that is,) Racine, Graves, Cheveldae.... Sure they tried, but it wasn't until little entry draft in 1989 the REALLY turned this franchise around. Sure, the Wings had above par regular seasons but other than a couple of lucky runs to the Campbell Conferene Finals, most the time the Wings were first round and out. Missing the 1990 playoffs all together. I would say the likes of Fedorov, Lidstrom, Konstantinov, Osgood, LaPointe and Kozlov turned this franchise around and molded it into what it is today. Sure, they kept Yzerman around, but as another user eluded to, he was almost traded after the 1994 playoff debacle. I cannot think of once when Lidstrom and trade were ever mentioned in the same sentence.

They have both had their impact on this team. Steve Yzerman rescued it from fan oblivion with his flashy play in the 80's. He generated ALOT of fan support, but it wasn't until LIdstrom and Fedorov showed up that turned this franchise from a playoff pretender to Stanley Cup Champions. This current dynasty team you see today was built around Lidstrom and Fedorov's impact, not Steve Yzerman's. So, we'll never know if the Wings would have won without Yzerman or LIdstrom individually, but think it is fairly certain that if this team never took a chance on drafting Lidstrom and Fedorov/Konstantinov we wold NOT have 4 Stanley Cups in the last 12 years...

Yzerman's presence saved this franchise, Lidstrom's turned it into a winner...

[LeftWinger 4,965]

Also not to mention, some notable players that describe Stevie as an inspiration are Crosby, Spezza, Thornton, Stamkos, Toews, Marleau, etc, etc, etc... Bottom line, Yzerman influenced a lot of the top North American players in the game today. Without him, who knows? A lot of these guys wouldn't be playing.

All of which grew up when the Wings were winning. Its hard not to choose the Captain of an elite franchise as your favorite player when you are a kid and they are Cup Champions. I look to the like of Joe Sakic who (on record) chose the #19 because he admired the way Steve Yzerman played, and that was BEFORE the Cups. This debate can never be won, BOTH players have had the biggest impact on this team since Gordie Howe. I believe if they were both drafted together, Lidstrom would have the nod, but Yzerman played nearly a decade before Lidstrom came over so its hard to judge them fairly.

[Copenhagen848 58]

Steve Yzerman is the greatest captain of the Detroit Red Wings....ever. Hence his nickname "THE Captain".

Lidstrom is a great player, but you have to wonder how much of his demeanor, class, and professional manner came from watching/playing with Steve Yzerman.

It is my opinion that Lidstrom would not be the same or as good of a player as he is today if had not been for playing with the Red Wings organization. And the Wings organization would not be what it is today without Steve Yzerman.

In other words, you don't get the Lidstrom of today without the Steve Yzerman of yesterday.

For obvious reasons I choose Yzerman over Lidstrom....and as mentioned, he is a god in Hockeytown.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

The pillars of the Red Wings dynasty are Yzerman, Lidstrom, and Fedorov, and without any one of them we'd still be counting up the years since the last championship.

I never did get to see Steve play at his very peak, when he scored 65 goals and set a mark for points unreached by anyone not named Gretzky or Lemieux, so I don't know if it'd be fair for me to say anything about it one way or another with regards to quality of play. Certainly during my life, as Steve aged and suffered injuries while Nick was going through his prime and was an iron man, the latter would be my pick.

For impact though, there's no question it's Steve.

Edited August 3, 2009 by Heroes of Hockeytown

[Guest micah]

Let me first say I am a HUGE YZerman fan, always have been. I remember the day he was drafted, I was so glad we got him instead of LaFontaine falling to us, with that being said, I have to put a different angle on this debate. While you state that Yzerman completely turned this franchise around, and another user stated that without Yzerman we have no Cups in 97/98/02. I have repectfully disagree with you guys. Sure Yzerman was a great player and the organization TRIED to build around him, I say tried because you look at all the failures that lead us to here. Probert, Sheppard, Klima, Sharples, BUrr, Houda, Murphy (Joe that is,) Racine, Graves, Cheveldae.... Sure they tried, but it wasn't until little entry draft in 1989 the REALLY turned this franchise around. Sure, the Wings had above par regular seasons but other than a couple of lucky runs to the Campbell Conferene Finals, most the time the Wings were first round and out. Missing the 1990 playoffs all together. I would say the likes of Fedorov, Lidstrom, Konstantinov, Osgood, LaPointe and Kozlov turned this franchise around and molded it into what it is today. Sure, they kept Yzerman around, but as another user eluded to, he was almost traded after the 1994 playoff debacle. I cannot think of once when Lidstrom and trade were ever mentioned in the same sentence.

They have both had their impact on this team. Steve Yzerman rescued it from fan oblivion with his flashy play in the 80's. He generated ALOT of fan support, but it wasn't until LIdstrom and Fedorov showed up that turned this franchise from a playoff pretender to Stanley Cup Champions. This current dynasty team you see today was built around Lidstrom and Fedorov's impact, not Steve Yzerman's. So, we'll never know if the Wings would have won without Yzerman or LIdstrom individually, but think it is fairly certain that if this team never took a chance on drafting Lidstrom and Fedorov/Konstantinov we wold NOT have 4 Stanley Cups in the last 12 years...

Yzerman's presence saved this franchise, Lidstrom's turned it into a winner...

This was a really good post.

[xtrememachine1 795]

I think the demise of this dynasty as we know it begins the day Nicklas Lidstrom hangs em up.

I would have to disagree. I think as long as we have Datsyuk and Zetterberg we will be one of the elite teams in the league.

Edited August 3, 2009 by xtrememachine1

[eva unit zero 271]

I have to say Yzerman. For this simple reason.

If I look at the top centers of all-time, I am looking at perhaps Gretzky, Lemieux, Yzerman, Esposito, and Beliveau.

If I look at the top five defensemen of all-time, I am looking at perhaps Orr, Bourque, Lidstrom, Shore, and Kelly.

These lists might be slightly different if I were to put some extended time and thought into it, but the point is this: Lidstrom, like most of the others listed, spent more time than not dominating his position on great teams. Also, the trio of Gretzky/Lemieux/Yzerman is the only situation where players listed here spent extended time competing directly. Yzerman, unlike any of the other players listed, spent his prime on a team where his presence or absence directly determined the fate of the team. When it came to other forwards on the team, Yzerman was stuck playing with a collection of primarily third and fourth liners while Gretzky's Oilers saw first liners ending up on the third line. Lemieux's Penguins spent some years with few other offensively talented forwards, but Lemieux almost never saw time without talented teammates.

Imagine what kind of team the Wings would have had if Detroit had a skilled second line center, and solid scoring wingers on the top two lines? Yzerman might have scored closer to 80+ goals and 200 points if he were playing with linemates who actually possessed some level of talent more than your average third liner.

Lidstrom was a great defenseman, but it's hard to say that he ever carried the team in the way Yzerman had to simply because the team had so many great players and the team was never in that situation where he would have had to.

Yzerman was more valuable to the franchise overall, Lidstrom was more important to the Cup wins in particular.

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

You gotta go with Yzerman in terms of franchise impact... only because he was the first person to give the Wings legitimacy again, and he was also the guy people stuck around to play with.

However, in terms of on-the-ice difference maker. Gotta go with Lidstrom as the pivotal guy.

89-90 (With just Yzerman) Our record is 28-38-14... (out of the playoffs)

90-91 (Federov's rookie year) Our record is 34-38-8... (low seed in the playoffs)

91-92 (Lidstrom's rookie year) Our record is 43-25-12... (#1 in conference) and we haven't had a losing record since.

Perhaps we can look at Lidstrom as the last piece of the puzzle, but the team really took off his rookie year and hasn't looked back.

[thedatsyukian 7]

I've got to go with Lidstrom.