Who is the best goalie of the modern era?

[Guest zackmorris]

1) Hasek

2) Roy

3) Brodeur

4) Joseph

I'd love to put Sawchuk 2nd and Tretiak 3rd but we're talking modern era and I'm not sure when that is for most people. It is after all just a loose phrase that could mean anything from beyond the 40s, to only the mid 80s and up.

I've spent more years than anyone here will probably believe studying goaltenders. No one in my eyes can challenge Dominik Hasek. In his prime, he was unquestionably the Gretzky of goalies. He stole every award Roy and Brodeur would've won had he not existed, but the scary part was, he never had an off year. It took until he was broken and in his late 30s for him to slow down, and it can be argued he never truly had a bad year. Even in 08, he just had a couple of off games. He kept us alive in the first 2 against Nashville and likely would've kept right on rolling had he gotten his job back. That goes overlooked as well.

But the man was just on a level of his own. Nothing was random with Dom, believe me, not a damn thing. He understood angles better than anyone, both horizontal and vertical. He understood the percentages, where shots go in what scenarios, etc. He was a brilliant shot reader, and could outwait any shooter. He was a genius and it showed on the ice. He had confidence, and didn't care what anyone thought. Most of all, he was more clutch than Brodeur or Roy, who are both staggeringly overrated. Brodeur is routinely outplayed by hack goalies in the postseason and Roy's great "clutch" performances came with spectacular defensive teams in front of him. He never single handedly won a Cup for any team he was on and I'll argue that until the day I die. Dominik Hasek if you really study the game, was a wall when he was given a lead. He was just as incredible in tied situations and in big games.

He could take the best in the world and make them look silly. It's just a shame coaches are too afraid to teach his style to children, and because of it we'll likely never see another Dom, ever. It'll also be the reason he'll be remembered more than anyone 50-100 years down the line. Then again, you have to understand his style to teach it and I haven't seen many people who get it anywhere.

Edited December 26, 2009 by zackmorris

[Guest ZetterbergFourty]

They say if Hasek had entered the NHL at the same time Roy did, Hasek would have far superior stats to Roy. Not sure who "They" is, but seems to me this is rather accurate.

I think Marty is the best of the Modern Era of goaltenders.

Edited December 26, 2009 by ZetterbergFourty

[T-Ruff 47]

There an obvious choice when you look at all the numbers, I get quite annoyed to see things like "Who is the best post-expansion goalie?" poll on TSN and see Hasek in a distant 3rd place, its just wrong. The Dominator is the greatest goaltender the game has ever seen.

Top 10 regular season SV% finishes:

Hasek - 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 9

Roy - 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 8, 10

Brodeur - 3, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8

Awards:

Hasek:

6 x first team all-star

6 x Vezina Trophy

2 x Hart Trophy & Pearson

Roy:

4 x First Team All-Star

2 x Second Team All-Star

3 x Conn Smythe

3 x Vezina Trophy

Brodeur:

3 x First Team All-Star

4 x Second Team All-Star

4 x Vezina trophy winner

2 Harts > 3 Conn Smythes IMO, as the latter is largely based on having a team good enough to make it to the finals.

Top 5 finishes in Hart voting:

Hasek - 1, 1, 2, 3, 3

Roy - 2, 3, 4, 5

Brodeur - 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5

More quick hits:

- Roy never won another Vezina after Hasek entered the league.

- Brodeur only started getting first team all-stars after Hasek/Roy were no longer competition. And Hasek got them against tougher competition (Brodeur, Roy) than Brodeur did.

- From 1994-2002 Hasek faced 1060 more shots than Brodeur and let in 135 less goals

- Hasek is 1st all time in SV% (.922)

Hasek had probably the greatest single goaltending performance ever in the 1998 Nagano Olympics. He allowed only 6 goals all tournament, including just 2 in the medal rounds. He beat Patrick Roy and Canada in the semi-final 2-1 in a shootout, stopping all 5 Canadian shooters. He went on to shut-out Russia 1-0 in the Gold Medal game and was named the best goaltender in the Olympics.

The other time that Hasek faced off against Roy was in the 2002 WCF. The Avs had a 3-2 series lead and could close it out at home. Hasek had other ideas as he stopped 24 shots in a 2-0 road win to force a game 7. We all know what happened in that game as Dom posted another shutout for the series win.

Hasek also had an impressive pre-NHL career. If he wasn't stuck behind the Iron Curtain he would've been able to come to the NHL sooner. Nevertheless his accomplishments there are of note: Goaltender of the year from 1986-1990, and player of the year 1987, 1989, 1990.

If he was able to start his NHL career on time (was drafted in 1983) I don't think such a debate (greatest goalie ever/of modern era) would even be much of one. That said, when you look closely and objectively it's still pretty clear.

Edited December 26, 2009 by T-Ruff

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

The thing is, there is no looking at it objectively.

Even with the more shots on goals, on one hand that means he had to make a lot more saves. On the other, a lot of those were pretty routine and helped save percentage. It's exhausting to get shelled like some goalies do, but it's also hard to not touch the puck for 10 minutes, then make a huge save that keeps your team in the game.

For me, I'm biased. I hate Roy so it's hard for me to put him up there with Marty and Dom.

Hasek was a late bloomer, but was the absolute best goalie for striking fear in his opponent. He could stand on his head and nearly single-handedly win a game.

But Brodeur is a friggin workhorse. He's had 11 seasons where he's started 70+ games. To have the kind of numbers he does with that kind of workload is pretty amazing. Roy never cracked 70 games in a season, and typically played in the low 60s. Hasek waivered between 50 and 60 games a season.

Marty's playoff sv% is .922 over 176 games, Dom's is .928 over 119, and Roy is .921 over 247.

For me, on a single game basis, Hasek was the scariest goalie to play against, Brodeur is a great franchise goaltender, and Roy is a ******.

[CrabCZ 0]

There an obvious choice when you look at all the numbers, I get quite annoyed to see things like "Who is the best post-expansion goalie?" poll on TSN and see Hasek in a distant 3rd place, its just wrong. The Dominator is the greatest goaltender the game has ever seen.

Top 10 regular season SV% finishes:

Hasek - 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 9

Roy - 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 8, 10

Brodeur - 3, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8

Awards:

Hasek:

6 x first team all-star

6 x Vezina Trophy

2 x Hart Trophy & Pearson

Roy:

4 x First Team All-Star

2 x Second Team All-Star

3 x Conn Smythe

3 x Vezina Trophy

Brodeur:

3 x First Team All-Star

4 x Second Team All-Star

4 x Vezina trophy winner

2 Harts > 3 Conn Smythes IMO, as the latter is largely based on having a team good enough to make it to the finals.

Top 5 finishes in Hart voting:

Hasek - 1, 1, 2, 3, 3

Roy - 2, 3, 4, 5

Brodeur - 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5

More quick hits:

- Roy never won another Vezina after Hasek entered the league.

- Brodeur only started getting first team all-stars after Hasek/Roy were no longer competition. And Hasek got them against tougher competition (Brodeur, Roy) than Brodeur did.

- From 1994-2002 Hasek faced 1060 more shots than Brodeur and let in 135 less goals

- Hasek is 1st all time in SV% (.922)

Hasek had probably the greatest single goaltending performance ever in the 1998 Nagano Olympics. He allowed only 6 goals all tournament, including just 2 in the medal rounds. He beat Patrick Roy and Canada in the semi-final 2-1 in a shootout, stopping all 5 Canadian shooters. He went on to shut-out Russia 1-0 in the Gold Medal game and was named the best goaltender in the Olympics.

The other time that Hasek faced off against Roy was in the 2002 WCF. The Avs had a 3-2 series lead and could close it out at home. Hasek had other ideas as he stopped 24 shots in a 2-0 road win to force a game 7. We all know what happened in that game as Dom posted another shutout for the series win.

Hasek also had an impressive pre-NHL career. If he wasn't stuck behind the Iron Curtain he would've been able to come to the NHL sooner. Nevertheless his accomplishments there are of note: Goaltender of the year from 1986-1990, and player of the year 1987, 1989, 1990.

If he was able to start his NHL career on time (was drafted in 1983) I don't think such a debate (greatest goalie ever/of modern era) would even be much of one. That said, when you look closely and objectively it's still pretty clear.

plus 70 save shutout against Devils & Brodeur (April 27 1994, Buffalo 1:0 NJ, game 6, 4OT)

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

Even with the more shots on goals, on one hand that means he had to make a lot more saves. On the other, a lot of those were pretty routine and helped save percentage. It's exhausting to get shelled like some goalies do, but it's also hard to not touch the puck for 10 minutes, then make a huge save that keeps your team in the game.

I'd say that easy saves benefited Marty over any other goalie in the discussion... for years his entire team was built around ensuring nothing but perimeter low-percentage shots. His durability is his soundest asset over Hasek or Roy, but to me, that is hardly enough to warrant placing him at their level.

I'm not sure about Hasek, because he only made it to two finals as a starter. I know he didn't always play on the best team, but also I think about his wandering when pucks are behind the net. It was too difficult on the nerves watching him leave the crease.

Yes, Hasek's out of the net play was poor, but honestly, I can recall next to no instances where the puck actually wound up in the back of the net because of it... he was a gambler at times, but he knew the odds and usually wound up on top.

[clutchngrab 12]

Hasek in his prime was dominant. Broduer second, for consistency through his career. Roy was certainly the most overrated of the 3 top contenders.

[Statts 4]

I break it down like this:

best career- Brodeur

best playoff - Roy

best prime- Hasek

[stuck in socal 56]

Osgood!

[eva unit zero 271]

The Habs top five forwards were Damphousse, Kirk Muller, Brian Bellows, Mike Keane, and Eric Desjardins, with only Damphousse scoring at a point per game pace. This wasn't a stacked Canadiens roster that won the Cup.

You have displayed quite a lack of knowledge regarding the 1993 Canadiens.

One, Eric Desjardins was a defenseman. Oops.

Two, here's some numbers to look at.

Montreal's offense was good, and the defense was good. Montreal finished sixth overall. Montreal's top-six scoring forwards (Damphousse, Muller, Bellows, Keane, Paul DiPietro, and Gilbert Dionne) posted 95 points in 114 man-games.

Montreal also got solid offense and defense from Desjardins, Mathieu Schneider, Patrice Brisebois, and Kevin Haller. Comparably, the Penguins were playing with Larry Murphy, Ulf Samuelsson, and journeymen Jim Paek and Paul Stanton as their top four. . Murphy and Samuelsson doubled-over was pretty much the defense top-seeded Pittsburgh, who most expected to win, used.

It's not the "came out of nowhere riding Roy's hot hand to the Cup" story that people like to tell. Montreal was a legit contender that season. It would be like Detroit winning the Cup in the 96-97 season when they finished 5th overall. Not exactly a team that came out of nowhere.

[Echolalia 2,961]

I break it down like this:

best career- Brodeur

best playoff - Roy

best prime- Hasek

I like this, actually

[Barrie 900]

For me, on a single game basis, Hasek was the scariest goalie to play against, Brodeur is a great franchise goaltender, and Roy is a ******.

[BlueMonk 102]

Hasek in his prime was the best goaltender I ever watched, and by a wide margin.

[Carman 387]

Jimmy Howard. It's not even close.

[egroen 384]

Any exhaustive study I have seen has Hasek on top, then Roy -- and a significant gap between the rest of the pack led by Brodeur.

Here is an example, focusing on adjusted save percentage:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=718221

PS... This is 1983 to present.

Edited December 27, 2009 by egroen

[egroen 384]

There an obvious choice when you look at all the numbers, I get quite annoyed to see things like "Who is the best post-expansion goalie?" poll on TSN and see Hasek in a distant 3rd place, its just wrong. The Dominator is the greatest goaltender the game has ever seen.

Top 10 regular season SV% finishes:

Hasek - 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 9

Roy - 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 8, 10

Brodeur - 3, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8

Awards:

Hasek:

6 x first team all-star

6 x Vezina Trophy

2 x Hart Trophy & Pearson

Roy:

4 x First Team All-Star

2 x Second Team All-Star

3 x Conn Smythe

3 x Vezina Trophy

Brodeur:

3 x First Team All-Star

4 x Second Team All-Star

4 x Vezina trophy winner

2 Harts > 3 Conn Smythes IMO, as the latter is largely based on having a team good enough to make it to the finals.

Top 5 finishes in Hart voting:

Hasek - 1, 1, 2, 3, 3

Roy - 2, 3, 4, 5

Brodeur - 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5

More quick hits:

- Roy never won another Vezina after Hasek entered the league.

- Brodeur only started getting first team all-stars after Hasek/Roy were no longer competition. And Hasek got them against tougher competition (Brodeur, Roy) than Brodeur did.

- From 1994-2002 Hasek faced 1060 more shots than Brodeur and let in 135 less goals

- Hasek is 1st all time in SV% (.922)

Hasek had probably the greatest single goaltending performance ever in the 1998 Nagano Olympics. He allowed only 6 goals all tournament, including just 2 in the medal rounds. He beat Patrick Roy and Canada in the semi-final 2-1 in a shootout, stopping all 5 Canadian shooters. He went on to shut-out Russia 1-0 in the Gold Medal game and was named the best goaltender in the Olympics.

The other time that Hasek faced off against Roy was in the 2002 WCF. The Avs had a 3-2 series lead and could close it out at home. Hasek had other ideas as he stopped 24 shots in a 2-0 road win to force a game 7. We all know what happened in that game as Dom posted another shutout for the series win.

Hasek also had an impressive pre-NHL career. If he wasn't stuck behind the Iron Curtain he would've been able to come to the NHL sooner. Nevertheless his accomplishments there are of note: Goaltender of the year from 1986-1990, and player of the year 1987, 1989, 1990.

If he was able to start his NHL career on time (was drafted in 1983) I don't think such a debate (greatest goalie ever/of modern era) would even be much of one. That said, when you look closely and objectively it's still pretty clear.

Great Post!

Hasek also had the Vezina wrapped up as late as 2006 with Ottawa at the age of 41, and it was his alone, until he was injured at the Olympics.

Numerous sports writers and scouts with international exposure were already calling Hasek the best goalie in the world years before he ever became a starter in the NHL.

If Hasek had started his NHL career at the same time as Roy (Hasek is actually older), you're right - there would be no debate whatsoever, in fact the debate would be:

Who is best? Gretzky, Howe, Orr, Lemieux or Hasek?

Edited December 27, 2009 by egroen

[Hiei 192]

Montreal was ready to win the cup in 1993. Remember, during the 90s, the East was going through flux after pittsburgh collapsed after the 2nd cup.

93-Montreal

94-Rangers

95 (shortened season)-NJ

96-Florida (FLORIDA??!)

97-Philly

98-Washington

Dom was the only player on Buffalo to write home about those days. Roy had scoring or defense in front of him, and Brodeur....well, if you replace Brodeur with Osgood in the Jersey defensive system, would you get the same result? Granted the first couple years after Brodeur replaced Terreri, he had to work for it, but after that it was gravy.

[Guest zackmorris]

The thing is, there is no looking at it objectively.

Even with the more shots on goals, on one hand that means he had to make a lot more saves. On the other, a lot of those were pretty routine and helped save percentage. It's exhausting to get shelled like some goalies do, but it's also hard to not touch the puck for 10 minutes, then make a huge save that keeps your team in the game.

For me, I'm biased. I hate Roy so it's hard for me to put him up there with Marty and Dom.

Hasek was a late bloomer, but was the absolute best goalie for striking fear in his opponent. He could stand on his head and nearly single-handedly win a game.

But Brodeur is a friggin workhorse. He's had 11 seasons where he's started 70+ games. To have the kind of numbers he does with that kind of workload is pretty amazing. Roy never cracked 70 games in a season, and typically played in the low 60s. Hasek waivered between 50 and 60 games a season.

Marty's playoff sv% is .922 over 176 games, Dom's is .928 over 119, and Roy is .921 over 247.

For me, on a single game basis, Hasek was the scariest goalie to play against, Brodeur is a great franchise goaltender, and Roy is a ******.

One thing I don't get, and I think is an overrated aspect of goaltending is workload. So what he played alot? Who the hell cares? This must be a senility thing with hockey writers, or some stupid foolish old school mindset, but workload doesn't mean s*** if the player just isn't as good as another. I see this in Vezina voting-people actually brought up Kiprusoff last season just because he played a ton of games. He was f***in horrible, but for some reason we cream ourselves over goalies who play alot. f*** off, like it's hard anyway. You're a professional athlete, 70 games shouldn't be s*** with days off in between. You're not getting hit, you're not skating all game and I'd put my last dollar on the fact that "keeping a goalie rested" is f***in bulls*** and is all psychosomatic. I'm positive this will be questioned and/or flamed as I'm questioning the conventional logic that everyone believes in, but the hell with it. I've seen goalies win Cups who have played almost every game, and goalies win Cups who barely played half. We all speculate about keeping goalies rested, but how often do they ever look tired in the net? I don't remember any goals going in where someone said "damn, he looked exhausted" and I don't recall any goalie ever just playing a visibly sluggish game.

Edited December 28, 2009 by zackmorris

[eva unit zero 271]

One thing I don't get, and I think is an overrated aspect of goaltending is workload. So what he played alot? Who the hell cares? This must be a senility thing with hockey writers, or some stupid foolish old school mindset, but workload doesn't mean s*** if the player just isn't as good as another. I see this in Vezina voting-people actually brought up Kiprusoff last season just because he played a ton of games. He was f***in horrible, but for some reason we cream ourselves over goalies who play alot. f*** off, like it's hard anyway. You're a professional athlete, 70 games shouldn't be s*** with days off in between. You're not getting hit, you're not skating all game and I'd put my last dollar on the fact that "keeping a goalie rested" is f***in bulls*** and is all psychosomatic. I'm positive this will be questioned and/or flamed as I'm questioning the conventional logic that everyone believes in, but the hell with it. I've seen goalies win Cups who have played almost every game, and goalies win Cups who barely played half. We all speculate about keeping goalies rested, but how often do they ever look tired in the net? I don't remember any goals going in where someone said "damn, he looked exhausted" and I don't recall any goalie ever just playing a visibly sluggish game.

Kiprusoff getting Vezina votes last year was a tragedy. But if a goalie plays more than 70 games and posts similar stats than a goalie who played 45-50 games, that does count for something. A lot of goalies can't handle the heavy, everyday workload and their performance suffers because of it. It shouldn't be considered a huge factor, but workload does factor into a goaltender's performance and should be considered as a factor in the player's overall performance and season.

[egroen 384]

Just because skaters could and have played 30+ minutes a game does not mean it is best - same goes for goalies.

[matt198913 932]

Is this even a question. Easily Broduer

[Guest zackmorris]

Is this even a question. Easily Broduer

lmao@easily

this is what our media aims to do and does extremely well.