1/5 GDT: Red Wings 1 at Ducks 4

[clutchngrab 12]

That is my whole argument in a nutshell. And I do think he s*** the bed here by not being able to play hard enough to beat out Meech or Lebda. Maybe we have different interpretations of that phrase, but that is what I meant by it.

Go Wings!

Yeah, s***ting the bed is kind of imprecise... One man's s*** is another man's wet fart.

Edited January 6, 2010 by clutchngrab

[gcom007 1,465]

Agreed. But if I could ditch his contract today I would.

I certainly hope he takes the Yzerman discount...maybe 3-5M for 2 years tops.

I think Holland f***ed up some things too, but most of this were not in this off-season. What are you referring to?

I agree that we have had surprisingly good efforts out of lots of folks like Miller, Eaves, Bert, etc. It may not be enough, though.

1) I wouldn't bother ditching Rafalski. He's been solid for us thus far for the most part and he's not as grossly overpaid as some suggest. Again, sure, I'd rather have a better deal, but the deal irks me a lot less than some of the other deals that have been given out in the past.

2) I'd love for Lids to take a discount. I think he will, though I doubt it'll be much below $5 million if even that low. When Yzerman was taking those discounts, he was also not playing as much regular season hockey and dealing with far more severe injuries. Lidstrom's still dressing just about every game and while he's finally showing his age more than he has in the past the last year or so, he's still without a doubt an elite player in the league in addition to being the Captain and emotional leader of the team. Anything less than $6 million will be gracious of Lidstrom to give up as he's still really worth the money. Ask any other GM and they'll tell you the same thing.

3) I think Holland was overconfident in his ability to sign guys and thus way to conservative in his dealings. I don't think he assessed the needs of the team on a whole and I don't think he prepared well at all for various possibilities. I think there are some guys he should've written off from the start in order to make the best long-run deals. I think you've got to write Sammy off going in as he's a guy who can get more money and a bigger role on another team. I think he should've agreed to terms with Hossa and Franzen before the playoffs but wait until after the playoffs to announce the deals, then deal Flip away for picks in the off-season. On that matter, I've never liked Flips contract. If he was playing for $2 million it'd be one thing, but on this team, he's not worth $3 million. He's too redundant. We've got enough guys who can play solid defense. Hossa's a superstar who can score a lot of goals and play great at both ends of the ice. He's arguably the best winger in the game today.

Holland should've done all that he could to keep Hossa but he hesitated, he froze up. Sign Hossa and Franzen, deal Flip, let Sammy, Hudler and Kopecky walk if they don't want to play ball past that. Flip's solid on D but doesn't score and Sammy and Hudler are inconsistent at best. Hossa's the real deal and he could've been had at a great price. But at the end of the day, not only did he miss out on Hossa, but he lost everybody else as well, sans Flip of course, who has been rather inconsequential to our overall record as usual this season simply because his strengths don't help us where we need help. Oh, and sans Hudler, who resigned, but solely because the deal will go down in two years. He still lost him.

It was obvious before last season started that the biggest hurdle in the following season would be scoring goals in a cap world. So why he chose to gamble on maybe resigning a couple of inconsistent guys up front when you've got a superstar more than willing to take a ridiculous discount to stay is beyond me. It's absurd even, all the more so after he lost them anyways! He's played it too conservative the last couple years and has moved too slow with guys and put too much stock in guys we develop to the point of compromising on the greater needs of the team.

Draper, like Flip also got too much money. Both Draper and Flip are real solid players, but they're not guys who score, yet the two of them together take up over $4.5 million in cap space. Meanwhile, with Flip out of the lineup, we actually got on our first winning streak and the defense tightened up. I'm not suggesting a correlation so much as saying again, defense is not our issue. We don't give up a lot of goals. We need to score goals. I mean, I love Draper and have a tremendous amount of respect and appreciation for what he's meant to this team through the years, but like you said, we've got to be realistic about what guys bring in this era, and paying Draper $1.5 million a year is insane. Imagine if Draper made $1 million and Flip made even just $2.5 million. We'd have an extra million to get Hossa up to around $5 million which he would've signed for. That's why all these little deals for more inconsequential guys piss me off so much more than a deal like Rafalski's as in his worst stretch with a roughed-up team for help, he's still 6th on our team in points, not even playing in all the games.

And you know, a lot of people are thinking Leino was a mistake, but I think Holland created the Leino problem by dropping the ball in the off-season, leaving us with nothing left to pin too many hopes and expectations to a kid who showed flashes of brilliance while being called up from GR. I think Leino's got a lot of upside still, but I don't think he's been given a fair chance at all thus far. There's more to player development than ice time. I think they're put way too much pressure on him since July. He's a rookie. You've got to take it slow and be patient with them.

I guess bottom line is that while I have respect for what Holland has done and the difficulty of managing a team in a cap era, I think loyalty and a conservative approach in certain situations has bitten us in the ass lately. We're still a real good team and I give him credit for finding guys like Eaves and taking a chance on Bertuzzi at a great price, but there'd be a lot less questions if he'd have made smarter deals with some guys earlier on than he did.

And for all the f***s of sake, do you remember when this guy almost resigned LEGACE to a multi-year deal before the playoffs for a reported $4 million-plus?!?!? I mean, seriously, this guy needs to toughen up a bit, because I'll tell you right now, that would've been the biggest ******* mistake of the decade. Bye bye two Stanley Cup appearances, hello years in the Legace suicidal nuthouse.

I like Holland, he's done a good job for the most part, but I think his time may be running out. I'm not convinced that losing Scotty as a consultant hasn't hurt a bit either. It's not like he's a horrible GM by any means, but there comes a time in situations like this when fresh blood can be a good thing. Heaven knows how serious he is about leaving when Lidstrom leaves, but either way, I think it might be wise for them to bring in another head before too long from outside the organization. They just need another voice that can help trim the fat a bit and level more about some of our home-bred guys. It's tough to do, but it's a tough world.

4) And it may be enough. See how easy it was to flip that statement around to be positive? They've all gotten us this far while we keep bleeding more and more guys. As we get guys back, I cannot imagine us continuing to lose as many games as we have. Not only that, I have little doubt that we'll be able to stand up far better to the bigger opponents which in and of itself will help us as we jockey for position. I am not even slightly worried about making the playoffs. Not one little bit. My sole "worry" if you can even call it that is a mentally-sour Osgood (I don't blame him) due to the way this season has gone for him and a rookie that isn't ready for the pressure. Once we get Osgood playing regularly, I'll feel 100% confident that we not only will make the playoffs, but make a run for the Cup.

[Dominator2005 558]

"Soft Euro" (Nokelainen) with the win over North American (Meech)...

[Finnish Wing 110]

"Soft Euro" (Nokelainen) with the win over North American (Meech)...

That's because Finns are not soft. Leino is not like the typical Finnish player, he's said it himself. Finns fought in war against Russia while "tough" Americans attack only smaller countries like Iraq. I've seen tons of soft Americans here in this league.

[Inultus 12]

Hossa's a superstar who can score a lot of goals and play great at both ends of the ice. He's arguably the best winger in the game today.

Laughable. He's not even the best winger on his team.

Moving on, when guys like Lidstrom, Datsyuk and Rafalski are all making terrible giveaways, this team will never win. Thank goodness Rafalski's is the only one that cost a goal or last night would have been even more lopsided.

Lidstrom looked terrible on the giveaway though, either he is really hurting or he just didn't try to play defense on that play at all.

The players who make a lot of money need to make big plays. They simply aren't. When we really need them, they aren't getting the job done.

[HOCKEY MATTERS 167]

With all the injuries the Wings have had, I'm pretty surprised they are doing as well as they are. Take the top 7 -9 players off any other team at the same time....where do you think they would be in the standings.

Glad I had a commitment last night that was unavoidable. Shut the tv off when the Wings couldn't clear their defensive zone and the Ducks got a shorty....on our PP. WTF, really?

I think the Wings will be on fire as the playoffs draw near...a healthy, rested roster is the ticket. In the meantime, I'll stick my head back up my ass and cheer my team on, thankyouverymuch.

edit: i remember the 70's and 80's. this season is a mosquito bite compared to that era. scratch a little and move on.

[seeinred 1,488]

That's because Finns are not soft. Leino is not like the typical Finnish player, he's said it himself. Finns fought in war against Russia while "tough" Americans attack only smaller countries like Iraq. I've seen tons of soft Americans here in this league.

I'm pretty sure you know how much I love the Finns and definitely agree with your assessment of them, but you're seriously overlooking a rather significant portion of history if you think the US only attacks small countries like Iraq.

And FWIW, more Americans need to know about the Winter War.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

Glad I stopped watching after the 2nd period

[Guest mindfly]

Howard was off early on and wings cant win with the current lineup if they go down 2-0 simple as that

It's also typical for wings...1 duck player scores his first career goal, perry first goal in 12games or something..... hear this too often when talking about the wings...

Poor performance... *sad mindfly*

[FinRedWing 172]

sad mindflyâ„¢

[Mors 201]

Lidstrom and Rafalski are what, our 3rd best defensive pairing now? -3 on the night for both of them. Rafalski got smoked not once, not twice...but 3 times.

[Mors 201]

Howard was off early on and wings cant win with the current lineup if they go down 2-0 simple as that

It's also typical for wings...1 duck player scores his first career goal, perry first goal in 12games or something..... hear this too often when talking about the wings...

Poor performance... *sad mindfly*

I feel like I've seen this dozens of times now...some no-name guy scoring his first career goal against the Wings. Hasek was particularly good at letting this happen back in the day.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

“It was a disappointing effort on our part,’’ Babcock said. “We weren’t prepared to play, for whatever reason. … It was a bad game for our team. That was our worst game in a while."

“It’s very disappointing. We let ourselves down here today. I don’t think you can ever really find out how good you can be unless you play as hard as you’re capable of playing. We didn’t do that tonight.’’

[Guest Shoreline]

It's really gut wrenching watching our team fumble with it's game sans superstars. They can only ride depth for so long.

Edited January 6, 2010 by Shoreline

[Guest mindfly]

5pts out of a playoff spot (although 1game less played)... they can't lose the rest of the games of this roadtrip thats for sure... it could be devastating.

[jollymania 162]

I guess trying to goon it up didn't work for the wings

[Miller Brew 0]

This loss just makes the Kings and the Sharks games all that more important.

[Z and D for the C 712]

This loss just makes the Kings and the Sharks games all that more important.

Along with Zetterberg and Cleary coming back.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

sad mindflyâ„¢

That's about as redundant as you can get.

[Dominator2005 558]

That's because Finns are not soft. Leino is not like the typical Finnish player, he's said it himself. Finns fought in war against Russia while "tough" Americans attack only smaller countries like Iraq. I've seen tons of soft Americans here in this league.

No need to tell me that - I know it... I'm born and raised in former Yugoslavia...

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

The one good thing in this game is that the Wings actually bullied the Ducks for a change. Brookbank and Ryan both pussed out before their fights got started.

I know the anti-enforcer posters are going to tell me that we lost the game, but we didn't lose because we played tough. We lost because our skilled players like to take nights off.

Hopefully, the tide has turned as far as the toughness of this rivalry goes.

[esteef 2,679]

The one good thing in this game is that the Wings actually bullied the Ducks for a change. Brookbank and Ryan both pussed out before their fights got started.

I know the anti-enforcer posters are going to tell me that we lost the game, but we didn't lose because we played tough. We lost because our skilled players like to take nights off.

Hopefully, the tide has turned as far as the toughness of this rivalry goes.

Agree. We were beaten, but not beaten down. Impressed with Janik and Meech sticking up for themselves even though they weren't great fights.

Chins up boys!

esteef

[Echolalia 2,961]

The one good thing in this game is that the Wings actually bullied the Ducks for a change. Brookbank and Ryan both pussed out before their fights got started.

I know the anti-enforcer posters are going to tell me that we lost the game, but we didn't lose because we played tough. We lost because our skilled players like to take nights off.

Hopefully, the tide has turned as far as the toughness of this rivalry goes.

I don't know I saw a fair bit of cheapshotting occur throughout the game, regardless of the fights/scrums. It was nice to see some players other than May stick up for their teammates though.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

I don't know I saw a fair bit of cheapshotting occur throughout the game, regardless of the fights/scrums. It was nice to see some players other than May stick up for their teammates though.

I don't remember any cheapshots.

The Wings looked so unmotivated, that a simple bodycheck from the other team could be considered a cheapshot, since the Wings appeared to be playing a different sport than Anaheim was. Not much hitting out there from the team whatsoever.

Kind of sad when you consider that they have 3 checking lines, yet don't play hard every game.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

I guess trying to goon it up didn't work for the wings

I guess trying to score goals didnt work either!