Osgood v Babcock round 2

[vOrophin 5]

I think Osgood has a legitimate point, but he is also not playing as well as Howard. He should be getting starts slightly more frequently but he is clearly out backup goaltender currently. As long as he is right and he is ready for the playoffs though - I won't complain. Before anyone says anything about making the playoffs, this team is good enough to make the playoffs no matter which goalie is in the net.

[interminded 1]

There's a lot of things I would like to say about the Caps game, but someone already said it... an probably better than I would.

Matt Saler on http://www.onthewingsblog.com/

Well said, Matt.

[titanium2 867]

There's a lot of things I would like to say about the Caps game, but someone already said it... an probably better than I would.

Matt Saler on http://www.onthewingsblog.com/

Well said, Matt.

I could see where he was coming from until he said "A complete change is needed." Really?

[wings7 62]

There's a lot of things I would like to say about the Caps game, but someone already said it... an probably better than I would.

Matt Saler on http://www.onthewingsblog.com/

Well said, Matt.

I like how in that dude's article, he gave us the victory. I hope that shows up in the standings...

(At some point he will most likely edit that, at which point this will make me look like a noob. I am not. It's truly incorrect at this time.)

Edited January 20, 2010 by wings7

[Outsider 42]

Yeah....that Osgood guy is a real prick. Real cancer, that guy....

Osgood's biggest save.....

After the Carolina win, Howard was unlacing his skates while trying to explain the importance of the bounce-back game. How was an inexperienced NHL goalie able to shake off a rough start so easily?

He stopped messing with the skates and pointed to the veteran to his right who was peeling off mostly dry hockey gear.

There was the answer: Chris Osgood. The reason Howard is succeeding is because of Osgood.

When Howard's season debut was a flop in Europe, Osgood was one of his loudest defenders in a sea of critics. And let's not forget, there were plenty.

"You have to figure it out, sometimes it's tough," Osgood said. "I've definitely wrestled with it a lot … I've come to the conclusion that you can't push it one way or the other. You have to let things happen. That's how you finish the right way."

It's a balancing act. But if Osgood is going to lean one way, it's going to be toward the side of helping a young teammate.

"I don't think if you're a bad guy, things ever turn out the right way," Osgood said

Yeah. Real "problem", that ******* Osgood.

As always......

The Wings are LUCKY to have him. Read it and weep, haters. And for the record, Chris Osgood is not the one who "sucks". Take a look in the mirror.

[Guest Howard He Do It?!]

Yeah....that Osgood guy is a real prick. Real cancer, that guy....

Osgood's biggest save.....

After the Carolina win, Howard was unlacing his skates while trying to explain the importance of the bounce-back game. How was an inexperienced NHL goalie able to shake off a rough start so easily?

He stopped messing with the skates and pointed to the veteran to his right who was peeling off mostly dry hockey gear.

There was the answer: Chris Osgood. The reason Howard is succeeding is because of Osgood.

When Howard's season debut was a flop in Europe, Osgood was one of his loudest defenders in a sea of critics. And let's not forget, there were plenty.

"You have to figure it out, sometimes it's tough," Osgood said. "I've definitely wrestled with it a lot … I've come to the conclusion that you can't push it one way or the other. You have to let things happen. That's how you finish the right way."

It's a balancing act. But if Osgood is going to lean one way, it's going to be toward the side of helping a young teammate.

"I don't think if you're a bad guy, things ever turn out the right way," Osgood said

Yeah. Real "problem", that ******* Osgood.

As always......

The Wings are LUCKY to have him. Read it and weep, haters. And for the record, Chris Osgood is not the one who "sucks". Take a look in the mirror.

All of this is off-ice. Ozzie still has to put up where it counts, between the pipes.

Just couldn't resist with the dirty cheap shot, huh?

[KonstantAdvisor 4]

All of this is off-ice. Ozzie still has to put up where it counts, between the pipes.

Just couldn't resist with the dirty cheap shot, huh?

I'm pretty sure they went to Osgood seeking comment. His comments reflect the history of the Wings under Bowman, too - there is a lot of precedent for not working your goalie like Babcock has been working Howard. Osgood has had time off for 'hot goalies' before and blaming him for sour grapes now is unfair because Osgood is the one who was between the pipes in November when the Wings couldn't put up more than one goal against some of the bottom-feeders in the league. He was nice and quiet for that.

There is a lot of precedent outside the Wings, too, for what Osgood said. Howard has lived up to a lot of high expectations, but so has Osgood and the stats this season bear that out, whatever the W/L ratio. I still support Babcock, because he's picked the lines that have brought us back to contention through all these injuries, I just think some people are anti-Osgood when they keep repeating 'weak 5-hole' and push the coach to deny Osgood opportunities to play or Howard time to rest. The Calder Trophy is not that important. Forcing things leads to turnovers, losses and injuries and Howard would be on a better pace to win that Calder if Osgood had started against the Islanders. You can't debate that.

By all means, call it a cheap shot, though.

[Guest Howard He Do It?!]

I'm pretty sure they went to Osgood seeking comment. His comments reflect the history of the Wings under Bowman, too - there is a lot of precedent for not working your goalie like Babcock has been working Howard. Osgood has had time off for 'hot goalies' before and blaming him for sour grapes now is unfair because Osgood is the one who was between the pipes in November when the Wings couldn't put up more than one goal against some of the bottom-feeders in the league. He was nice and quiet for that.

There is a lot of precedent outside the Wings, too, for what Osgood said. Howard has lived up to a lot of high expectations, but so has Osgood and the stats this season bear that out, whatever the W/L ratio. I still support Babcock, because he's picked the lines that have brought us back to contention through all these injuries, I just think some people are anti-Osgood when they keep repeating 'weak 5-hole' and push the coach to deny Osgood opportunities to play or Howard time to rest. The Calder Trophy is not that important. Forcing things leads to turnovers, losses and injuries and Howard would be on a better pace to win that Calder if Osgood had started against the Islanders. You can't debate that.

By all means, call it a cheap shot, though.

While there may not be precedent in Detroit for riding a goalie for extended periods of time, there certainly is around the league. Teams like LA, Calgary, Vancouver, NJ and SJ ride their goalies even harder and they seem to do just fine.

Ozzie was nice and quiet because he was getting to play. Ozzie wasn't going to go run to the press and throw the whole team under the bus. Once the playing time dried up, Ozzie became sour and let the press know, a big no-no.

I don't think Ozzie has lived up to his expectations. Ozzie's expectations were to play like he did in the playoffs and so far that has not happened. Howard had very low expectations as he was considered the backup, but he proved otherwise. Is it wrong to say Ozzie has a weak 5-hole? Is it not true? It's almost guaranteed that Ozzie will give up at least one 5-hole goal. It's blatant Ozzie homerism to pretend that he doesn't have an issue with the 5-hole.

The Calder Trophy is not that important, but wins are. Howard has been the Wings' best option to get wins.

I'll call it a cheap shot because that's what it is.

[Stiffy 0]

Okay, I am changing my position (perhaps a first for LGW?). Osgood's comments about getting points and SCF's was out of line. Besides, it's a waste of time. Babcock is focused on the hear and now. He is treating Osgood like he did Hudler - "You want to play more, then play well." Osgood wants it the other way around, but it won't happen with Babcock.

[Guest R2D2]

Osgood needs to quit being a baby; plain and simple. He's a professional, if he can't sit out 12 games and be ready then maybe he needs to retire. .870 Save percentage isn't top tier goaltending on 23 shots, plain and simple.

[ltgator333 3]

Okay, I am changing my position (perhaps a first for LGW?). Osgood's comments about getting points and SCF's was out of line. Besides, it's a waste of time. Babcock is focused on the hear and now. He is treating Osgood like he did Hudler - "You want to play more, then play well." Osgood wants it the other way around, but it won't happen with Babcock.

Yeah worked out really well too as Hudler's been lights-out for the wings this year.

Figures that a so-so first start in a month and a couple harmless quotes by The Most Controversial Player to Ever Play Hockey according to LGW.com, ***I said it here*** and there's an epic, dozen plus (wait for it) page thread with people going ape-$hit. It amazes me how much some people hate the guy. I mean, how DARE he say what's on his mind as opposed to the Gary-approved standard media statement for NHL players v2.2!?

Here we go...

[interminded 1]

Yeah worked out really well too as Hudler's been lights-out for the wings this year.

Figures that a so-so first start in a month and a couple harmless quotes by The Most Controversial Player to Ever Play Hockey according to LGW.com, ***I said it here*** and there's an epic, dozen plus (wait for it) page thread with people going ape-$hit. It amazes me how much some people hate the guy. I mean, how DARE he say what's on his mind as opposed to the Gary-approved standard media statement for NHL players v2.2!?

Here we go...

well said, sir

[Carman 387]

Yeah worked out really well too as Hudler's been lights-out for the wings this year.

Figures that a so-so first start in a month and a couple harmless quotes by The Most Controversial Player to Ever Play Hockey according to LGW.com, ***I said it here*** and there's an epic, dozen plus (wait for it) page thread with people going ape-$hit. It amazes me how much some people hate the guy. I mean, how DARE he say what's on his mind as opposed to the Gary-approved standard media statement for NHL players v2.2!?

Here we go...

So you like seeing a Red Wing fling internal affairs out to the media then? I thought the Wing's were a little more stable than that. I agree though people completely bashing Osgood's ability are stupid. But I don't see how people can be happy about him complaining to the media about this?

[aflac9262 211]

In regards to last night, I felt Ozzie was decent, considering the lengthy layoff he endured. However, goaltending hasn't been a real dilemma for the Wings (Howard has been exceptional). There's simply not enough time left in the season to bring out the Chris Osgood experiment now, especially when the team needs the best chance to win, and get as many points as possible to sneak into the playoffs. So I'd rather see Howard in there for the majority of games at this point. Ozzie simply hasn't been good enough this season (and you cannot deny that, despite his lack of starts, and that’s what fueled the layoff to begin with), and considering the situation the Wings are in, they simply cannot afford to be playing musical chairs with goaltenders and losing points because of it. At this point, you have to stick with Howard for the majority of the games down the stretch, due to his rather consistent and dependable services this season thus far.

The Wings real problem is offense. It has been a total disaster this season. Hopefully Franzen's return along with others such as Williams can get something going.

[Guest Shoreline]

Looks like Ozzie is at it again through the media

Ouch.

I was thinking it was interesting how Ozzie hasn't been heard of in the press since he said he knew more than Babcock about goaltending. He finally gets a start after a month in solitary, and he can't resist letting the press know how he really feels....

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/20..._in_net_fo.html

First off, Ozzie didn't play a stellar game against the Caps -- nobody really did. Secondly, Ozzie has, for years, been the most popular scapegoat for just about any game this team doesn't win while he's in net -- even IF this team ends up winning the Stanley Cup and having the #1 seed. There is that much vitriol toward a single player, and there is that much bandwagon'ism in hockey (and really every sport) that if your team happens to lose (god forbid that ever happen) some people will either jump off the team's bandwagon or they'll take a complete s*** on whoever is the more popular player to pick on. It's really fighting a battle of futility to try and stop it, so the best thing to do is just make fun of (or mock or parody) people who do it.

[Opie 308]

First off, Ozzie didn't play a stellar game against the Caps -- nobody really did. Secondly, Ozzie has, for years, been the most popular scapegoat for just about any game this team doesn't win while he's in net -- even IF this team ends up winning the Stanley Cup and having the #1 seed. There is that much vitriol toward a single player, and there is that much bandwagon'ism in hockey (and really every sport) that if your team happens to lose (god forbid that ever happen) some people will either jump off the team's bandwagon or they'll take a complete s*** on whoever is the more popular player to pick on. It's really fighting a battle of futility to try and stop it, so the best thing to do is just make fun of (or mock or parody) people who do it.

Goaltenders, Quarterbacks, and Pitchers are the only positions that get so much flack game to game, really loss to loss. Even in a win those three will get disected. Why they have the biggest impact on the game. They touch the ball/puck on every single possession or in the case of the goaltender are the very last line of defense. And either way all three are left to handle their job all alone.

As a Winger, you lose your man, or get undressed as a D (Like Stuart by Backman) there is someone back there. As a goalie you screw up once and your error is magnified 10 fold if not 100!

Quarterback throws 3 ints all year, playoffs come around he throws 3 in one game, all everyone talks about is how he is int prone. But all season he threw 3, doesn't matter. Same with starting pitcher, walks 4 in 3 innings all of the sudden he has a walk problem.

Nature of the beast.

BTW Ozzie's whole "you can write that down", did he watch to much Almost Famous?

Bad move my man, keep it in house this is making you look bad!

[Guest Shoreline]

Goaltenders, Quarterbacks, and Pitchers are the only positions that get so much flack game to game, really loss to loss. Even in a win those three will get disected. Why they have the biggest impact on the game. They touch the ball/puck on every single possession or in the case of the goaltender are the very last line of defense. And either way all three are left to handle their job all alone.

As a Winger, you lose your man, or get undressed as a D (Like Stuart by Backman) there is someone back there. As a goalie you screw up once and your error is magnified 10 fold if not 100!

Quarterback throws 3 ints all year, playoffs come around he throws 3 in one game, all everyone talks about is how he is int prone. But all season he threw 3, doesn't matter. Same with starting pitcher, walks 4 in 3 innings all of the sudden he has a walk problem.

Nature of the beast.

BTW Ozzie's whole "you can write that down", did he watch to much Almost Famous?

Bad move my man, keep it in house this is making you look bad!

If we take the last few years here alone -- how about all the Lilja and Filppula bashing and blaming? I'm sure you remember that. Each and every loss. Bert even had his own following of people taking a crap on him until people who kept making fun of Bert and blaming him got their self and their stupidity in tow dragged through the mud in embarrassment and mockery. No doubt you're correct and often times the goaltender does get flak the way QB's do in football, and indeed you're right that Oz should not be going to the media (this often has more negative results than positive -- for the team that is), but in the situation here with Ozzie and this bashing, most of it is for the reason stated in previous post, and there isn't very many nice things to say or positive ways to act toward those who do it.

[Grim 5]

bash or no bash... Ozzie has been relegated to an overpaid backup. unless he has a NTC, I don't see the point of keeping him especially if Babs won't use him. Maybe package him to an East coast team and get some other team's backup.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Yeah good thing Chris Osgood carried us to the finals two years in a row. It's not like we had one of the most potent offenses in the NHL or anything.

Potent offenses rarely are the difference when it matters. Defense and goaltending are the biggest factors in the playoffs.

2008: 14-4, .930, 1.55

2009: 15-8, .926, 2.01

Ozzie, did in fact, carry this team to the finals two years in a row.

[Opie 308]

If we take the last few years here alone -- how about all the Lilja and Filppula bashing and blaming? I'm sure you remember that. Each and every loss. Bert even had his own following of people taking a crap on him until people who kept making fun of Bert and blaming him got their self and their stupidity in tow dragged through the mud in embarrassment and mockery. No doubt you're correct and often times the goaltender does get flak the way QB's do in football, and indeed you're right that Oz should not be going to the media (this often has more negative results than positive -- for the team that is), but in the situation here with Ozzie and this bashing, most of it is for the reason stated in previous post, and there isn't very many nice things to say or positive ways to act toward those who do it.

Agreed, no matter what happens (see last years playoff run) there will always be a goalie debate on LGW!

All in all I was happy with Ozzie last night.

The team as a whole played well, Ozzie played great up until the first goal, and then he started sitting back in his net, and that to me said uh oh Ozzie is thinking about this situation. NOW I could be 100% wrong that is just what I saw.

The second goal to me would be like blaming J-ho for the Richards goal in Dallas. Backstrom undresses Stuart, and gets a point blank shot on Ozzie, if he doesn't shoot 5-hole (and still scores) this goal is half the controversy it is made out to be on this board. But 5-hole and Ozzie is like Steriods and A-rod on this board.

Both Backstrom and Richards made great individual moves to get themselves in a great position and then followed it up by putting the puck in the net.

The third I had as much chance stopping that while sitting on my coach as Ozzie did, that deflected and then hit the far side post and went in!

I truly believe, Babcock sees his team play better in front of Howard, I think he sees a team that skates harder in front of him.

Not because some one dislikes Ozzie, or someone thinks Ozzie is a s***bag, but simply because the team skates harder, works harder in there own end.

May that be a product of the lesser of two goalies playing, sure, but babs needs these guys firing on all cylinders and to get every point available.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Okay, I am changing my position (perhaps a first for LGW?). Osgood's comments about getting points and SCF's was out of line. Besides, it's a waste of time. Babcock is focused on the hear and now. He is treating Osgood like he did Hudler - "You want to play more, then play well." Osgood wants it the other way around, but it won't happen with Babcock.

I think that's just another prime example of Babcock mishandling a situation. Not to derail the topic, but Babcock never used Hudler properly either.

You can't play well without an opportunity (or two).

[RedArmy 4]

ozzie stinking up a second regular season in the row, just this year wings can't outscore the opposition in every game... 3 goals in seriously? and Wings offense put up over 40 shots? Caps had better goaltending then wings, so they won... simple as that

I know Ozzie hasn't been playing much, but as my friend said when i took to the wings isles disaster last week, these guys get paid way too much money not to show up or to be tired from being on the road trip and etc... the amount of money professional players get paid should be enough to get them in super training and readiness mode to handle all these things

Wings can' t afford poor goaltending in regular season this year as opposed to when they could simple outscore the other team... We miss franzen now more than ever...

Edited January 20, 2010 by RedArmy

[sliverck 3]

While I kind of agree with what Osgood is saying, he shouldn't be staying it to the press. Maybe he has talked to Babcock about it but it didn't go anywhere so he felt the need to take it up a level. But it makes him look like he's whining about suddenly being a backup goalie, I agree he needs shut his mouth and shut his 5 hole. That being said, he shouldn't be sitting for a month and then thrown into a game against one of the leagues top offenses. I'm not liking the way Babcock is handling this, Ozzie should have played one of the weaker teams so that Howard would have been in for this game.

[ltgator333 3]

So you like seeing a Red Wing fling internal affairs out to the media then? I thought the Wing's were a little more stable than that. I agree though people completely bashing Osgood's ability are stupid. But I don't see how people can be happy about him complaining to the media about this?

I seriously doubt he was crying his eyes out or anything. That would get on my nerves. I'm sure the quote selection for the article painted it that way to an extent, that's what news writers do.

OH- and it's not much of an internal affair, imo- it's as public as who's between the pipes and who isn't.

Edited January 20, 2010 by ltgator333

[wings7 62]

First off, Ozzie didn't play a stellar game against the Caps -- nobody really did. Secondly, Ozzie has, for years, been the most popular scapegoat for just about any game this team doesn't win while he's in net -- even IF this team ends up winning the Stanley Cup and having the #1 seed. There is that much vitriol toward a single player, and there is that much bandwagon'ism in hockey (and really every sport) that if your team happens to lose (god forbid that ever happen) some people will either jump off the team's bandwagon or they'll take a complete s*** on whoever is the more popular player to pick on. It's really fighting a battle of futility to try and stop it, so the best thing to do is just make fun of (or mock or parody) people who do it.

Hahaha. You're kidding right? We played when of our best games all season. We only gave up 3. Yes 3. Shots in the first period. And the scapegoat thing, well that's becomming a scapegoat. I've come around to Ozzie the last few years, realized I was wrong. But this commenting to the media is for another team, not here in Detroit. Secondly, at what point is it okay to say, we need the points and Howard seems to get them? Ozzie played plenty early on in the season and when Jimmy got his chance, he made good with it (so far at least). Are we supposed to punish him and potentially our chances of making the playoffs because Ozzie has a better resume? As the cliche goes, "What have you done for me lately."