Ozzy for game 4?

[zettie85 106]

I didn't mean to suggest that Phoenix is a bad team, but they are anything but an offensive powerhouse. They were 24th in the league for the regular season in goals scored at 211. Compared that to San Jose in 4th at 257, Chicago at 3rd with 262, Vancouver at 2nd at 268, and Washington at 1st with 313...if they were playing those teams and they were lighting Jimmy up to the tune of a GAA of close to 4 now, it'd be one thing, but this is Phoenix. They are not a powerful offensive team. That's what scares me about Jimmy Howard going forward at this point.

I see your point but I really don't think it matters. Phoenix is a defence first team. If they don't have to defend though it only leaves them one option but add the attacking element into their game. Tippet sees how bad our passes are and how weak our forecheck is at the moment and is getting his boys to play more offencive. Same results no matter who we play.

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

Howard = I like the kid and I want to see him succeed. Not a really good showing so far. He needs to be spectacular in game 4 or I think we will see Oz.

Really this team looks like the January Red Wings not the March Red Wings. If they continue to play like the s*** they have, the goalie won't matter.

I'm expecting 60 full mins of effort on Tuesday, not the 20 from Game 1 or today or the 40 from game 2 - we need 60 to turn this series around....

[Raptor1116 11]

He absolutely hasn't been theJimmy Howard of the regular season.

Actually, he has been the Jimmy Howard of the regular season. Rebounds, rebounds, rebounds, poor angles, over commitment, and poor lateral movement. It's just getting magnified now that we are in the playoffs and teams start crashing the net.

I love Babcock and think he is the best coach in the league but he really screwed the pooch on the goalie situation this season. You cannot play one goalie this much in one season, I don't care who your goalie is. It tired Howard out and it basically dry-docks the backup. Go look at Calgary the past few seasons. They continually run Kipper into the ground during the regular season and then he breaks down in the playoffs.

At this point I'd go with Ozzie. He can't do much worse than Howard is doing. The first goal is on Howard, the second goal is on Howard, and the fourth goal is on him as well, and that's just game 3. Game 2 were full of gaffs by Howard. This is Phx, the 24th ranked offense in the NHL and they are torching Howard. What on earth is going to happen if the Wings make it out of the round and we have to play a team like Vancouver?

Ozzie's a vet. Put him in there, he will be ok. The team would probably even respond to having him in net, knowing he hasn't played in a looooong time and would tighten things up.

[puffy 97]

It's just one game, lets not overreact here.

I wouldn't start Osgood in game 4. Jimmy is our guy and we need to give him another shot.

[Rockitman 11]

Osgood wasn't playing as bad as many have come to believe. Howard came in and played great when Osgood got sick, and after that Osgood never once got a decent shot to get going again. This goes all the way back to November when there was plenty of time to sort things out.

Granted, I do believe Osgood brought this on himself to some extent as well by mouthing off, in my mind, it never should have been made to be an issue. I said this WAY back when. There was no point in even creating the possibility for a goaltending issue. There's no drama on this team and these guys support each other. Keep them both warm and see how it goes down the stretch because after all, the playoffs are a different beast. I'm not saying I'm so smart. This is simple s***...really, really simple s***.

This is how simple, and seriously, think back to November when this all started...contemplate:

Don't utterly and completely ostracize a guy who went to the Cup Finals two years in a row, winning in '08 and carrying a battered team to game 7 in '09: good idea/bad idea?

Again, I am absolutely not saying that Osgood made a wise move in running his mouth, but Babcock should not have let it ever get to the point where Osgood would be so upset to uncharacteristically run his mouth to the press. His lack of foresight on the matter was wholly and completely lacking.

And also, don't forget, aside from simply not giving Osgood any sense of consistent starts, he did little to nothing to support Osgood at all in the press in continually saying that Howard gives the team the best chance to win when asked about Osgood. True or not at the time, it's just not going to help Osgood's state of mind when he's already stewing about not getting starts. And again, not saying Osgood was right to respond, but he was responding to fairly blatant criticisms of him that Babcock initially made in the press. And the bottom line is that Babcock didn't need to be saying what he was saying. I've been saying it for a long time, Babcock was creating a mess, and that mess is really starting to look like a mistake.

And to respond to what will likely be the first rebuttal...

Sorry, I don't buy for a second that Osgood wouldn't have been able to be a part of getting this team to the playoffs if given consistent starts throughout the season. He had some rough starts, but I have no doubt that he would've gotten things together especially down the stretch when things became more critical. Osgood's a big game goalie and he lives for the playoffs; there's no way he wouldn't give all he had to get there if it was on the line. I have complete faith in that.

Well I agree with you on wishing we had the Ozzie of 08-09 going right now but with the way things went for him this year its just too late for him... Like it or not its all Howard or nothing now...

It's just one game, lets not overreact here.

I wouldn't start Osgood in game 4. Jimmy is our guy and we need to give him another shot.

11 goals in 3 games just isn't good enough... rookie or not that is very average and if you expect to win the cup Howie CANNOT be average with the D in front of him right now. He's gonna have to steal a game if we are gonna come back and take this series...

[8 Legged RedWing 367]

No no and no... Jimmy earned this spot the whole season. Our defense left him out to dry today and if we yank him now we shatter his confidence. We live and die by Howard now. Osgood is only getting older and rustier. Playoffs or not.

[Dano33 41]

It tired Howard out

How do you know? How could you possibly know?

Ozzie's a vet. Put him in there, he will be ok. The team would probably even respond to having him in net, knowing he hasn't played in a looooong time and would tighten things up.

Why is it assumed that Osgood will be ok. Why do you think that the team will automatically play better in front of Ozzie when the opposite has happened all year?

I'm an Osgood fan, always have been. Hell, I've been wearing my Osgood jersey for 14 years, but there is absolutely no way we can go to him. I hate when people say "look at the past two years, he turned it on in the playoffs". I won't argue that isn't true, but there's no guarantee he will turn it on this year. He's getting old, players decline as they get older, and I can't justify playing a 37 year old guy in the playoffs who gave up countless weak goals in the regular season (worse than last year imo) and couldn't even be counted on to give Jimmy a break.

Howard is the future, he has to learn to play through adversity. If we yank him now, or at some point during game 4, he will not be able to grow. Especially since the guy who would be replacing him did nothing to deserve a single minute of playoff time this year.

[Hockeytown_Ryan 119]

It's Howard's show.

But if the team just lacks the effort in game 4 and we go down by 3ish then throw Osgood in and blame everything on him.

Wow you know its funny some people ALMOST take you seriously... Asshat!

Edited April 19, 2010 by Hockeytown_Ryan

[Carman 387]

Wow you know its funny some people ALMOST take you seriously... Asshat!

I know, shame on me for making light of a situation, right?

Edited April 19, 2010 by Carman

[Hossa4Life 4]

I know, shame on me for making light of a situation, right?

not many people pick up on jokes in here unless you directly state your joking. I got your humor.

[Hockeytown_Ryan 119]

I know, shame on me for making light of a situation, right?

You never add anything constructive Carman.. EVER!!!! all you do is piss people off.... If that pumps your nads fine just don't expect polite posts in return...

Edited April 19, 2010 by Hockeytown_Ryan

[Carman 387]

You never add anything constructive Carman.. EVER!!!! all you do is piss people off.... If that pumps your nads fine just don't expect polite posts in return...

Never constructive?

http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=61841

http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=64428&view=findpost&p=1946792

Come on now, you just don't chose to read my "constructive" posts...

[Hockeytown_Ryan 119]

Meh hasn't been good, but he is not the reason we are losing nor is he the worst player right now.

Learn from that eh?

I'm happy with Bertuzzi. He is creating chances, hitting, and shooting. We are getting a good bang for our buck with his contract. It's just a shame he has to carry that anchor of Holmstrom around. If Homer actually capitilized on half of the chances Bertuzzi has set up for him non you would be complaining.

Hmm Yeah something to learn from there for sure.....

Never constructive?

http://www.letsgowin...showtopic=61841

http://www.letsgowin...dpost&p=1946792

Come on now, you just don't chose to read my "constructive" posts...

Still looking for one.

Bugger off.. Howard has been your man all year..... Now you don't want to see him in a low light eh? welcome to the big leagues kid! deal with it......

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Pumping nads?

What?

[jmad 18]

As far as I'm concerned, I really understand that Howard is green in the playoffs and he was going to get some lumps. I'm more pissed off that Babcock bet the farm on Howard since December and now we have the best playoff goaltender in the last two seasons rusted pass the point of no return.

Babcock doesn't seem to inspire the team, he plays favorites constantly, and now he has a rookie goaltender that is looking pretty sad between the pipes while the one he owns a ring to is taking stats.

we wouldn't even be in the playoffs if Howard hadn't played all season. Great seasons like that don't come along all that often. And i'm sick of hearing that Ozzie "turns it on" in the playoffs. He's been inconsistent his whole career. He's gotten hot at the right time and that was great but you don't count on that. Clutch is not a skill.

[Carman 387]

Learn from that eh?

[/b]

Hmm Yeah something to learn from there for sure.....

Still looking for one.

Bugger off.. Howard has been your man all year..... Now you don't want to see him in a low light eh? welcome to the big leagues kid! deal with it......

[Hossa4Life 4]

ha ha you have so many of those haters gonna hate pictures

[Outsider 42]

we wouldn't even be in the playoffs if Howard hadn't played all season. Great seasons like that don't come along all that often. And i'm sick of hearing that Ozzie "turns it on" in the playoffs. He's been inconsistent his whole career. He's gotten hot at the right time and that was great but you don't count on that. Clutch is not a skill.

Wow. I've kept silent for awhile now, (well....along with the whole "virus" thing on this site....hope THAT is cleared up!), but I HAD TO respond to this gem:

"Clutch" is not a skill, it's a state of being. And it is absolutely what separates a "good" Player from a Champion.

There is NOTHING more important in any must Win situation than being Clutch. Billy Smith was a TERRIBLE regular season goalie. He made a Hall of Fame career out of being......

Clutch.

[jstwatchin 23]

Very first post. I have been at most before this a casual hockey fan. JHoe is from my home town and I have been following the Wings because of that. I haven't seen Osgood's past accomplishments, but know he is a great goalie to have achieved them. I also believe he is a great person in helping coach Jimmy to the season that he has had. I can go back and pull stats and sound like I know what I'm talking about, but it wouldn't make any difference. Jimmy had a bad game today. He hasn't had great games before this in the playoffs, but he hasn't been bad like today. He is a rookie and I think the pressure is getting to this man who has been so cool and strong thoughout the season. Look at his reaction to the 4th goal. He is blaming himself, but needs to keep the doubts away. I know he can handle it.

There have been games I wish I saw Ozzie start just to balance the goalie situation. I agree that the wings are in a corner and Howard has to get it done. The team knows he helped get them here and I think will play their best in front of him. Their best has not always been very good in many games this season. Some Jimmy won for them, some he lost on them. The Redwings need to win game 4! Jimmy Howard will be in goal giving everything he can for the team. It isn't about him vs Ozgood. It's about the Redwings vs the Yotes. Everyone needs to stand behind the team and watch them perform to their abilities ... they can and will win this ...

[Nightfall 871]

Wow, I thought all this time you were biased against him. What changed your tune?

[Zeowingsfan 16]

Wow, I thought all this time you were biased against him. What changed your tune?

If you ever took time to read posts you would have realized that Doc was never against Howard.

[Rockitman 11]

Wow. I've kept silent for awhile now, (well....along with the whole "virus" thing on this site....hope THAT is cleared up!), but I HAD TO respond to this gem:

"Clutch" is not a skill, it's a state of being. And it is absolutely what separates a "good" Player from a Champion.

There is NOTHING more important in any must Win situation than being Clutch. Billy Smith was a TERRIBLE regular season goalie. He made a Hall of Fame career out of being......

Clutch.

VERY true couldn't agree more with that point

[Firehawk 305]

I say Howard even if we go down. The only way I'd agree to pull Howard is if he gets absolutely annhilated and you can honestly look and say "he's done", much like Legace. He had that 'deer in the headlights' look and you knew he was cooked. Howard hasn't shown that to me at all. The first goal took 4 chances to score and the defense allowed that one. The second goal was a total lack of effort by the wings. The third goal makes me think Lidstrom WILL retire after this year. I can't say I've ever seen Lidstrom get totally owned on a play like that one. The fourth goal is a bad goal by Howard, no denying that. Still not enough in my mind to pull him.

The wings are not playing 60 minutes. Even in game 2 there were lapses. Game 1 was ridiculous, and Game 3 was even worse.

What I don't understand is, WHY? Why can't the wings find the effort for a full game? What the hell? They were pulling this in the late stages of last playoff. It's like they think because of what they accomplished that it will all work out, but they forget to put the effort in.

I think we will win on Tuesday, but we won't if we don't play with desperation.

[HelmerFan 28]

Howard gives up 5 goals next game in the first, breaks his leg, plays 5 minutes with a broken leg, lets in another goal and THEN...... babs plays goalie himself.

You wont see Ozzy anymore, it is Jimmy even if the ship sinks....

but to answer the question.. YES put Ozzy in! ! ! ! thats what i would like but it wont happen. ( hope to eat my own words )

Edited April 19, 2010 by HelmerFan

[gcom007 1,465]

I say Howard even if we go down. The only way I'd agree to pull Howard is if he gets absolutely annhilated and you can honestly look and say "he's done", much like Legace. He had that 'deer in the headlights' look and you knew he was cooked. Howard hasn't shown that to me at all. The first goal took 4 chances to score and the defense allowed that one. The second goal was a total lack of effort by the wings. The third goal makes me think Lidstrom WILL retire after this year. I can't say I've ever seen Lidstrom get totally owned on a play like that one. The fourth goal is a bad goal by Howard, no denying that. Still not enough in my mind to pull him.

The wings are not playing 60 minutes. Even in game 2 there were lapses. Game 1 was ridiculous, and Game 3 was even worse.

What I don't understand is, WHY? Why can't the wings find the effort for a full game? What the hell? They were pulling this in the late stages of last playoff. It's like they think because of what they accomplished that it will all work out, but they forget to put the effort in.

I think we will win on Tuesday, but we won't if we don't play with desperation.

Howard gave up a huge rebound that lead to multiple shots, and the initial shot went right into his glove. That's on Howard, no way around it, and it's a back-breaker of a goal to give up 30 seconds in. The second goal wasn't a horrible goal, but it was utterly terrible timing, and it wasn't far removed from soft. The 3rd goal was not his fault at all. The 4th goal was soft. Howard even admitted that 3 of the goals were blatantly his fault.

All year long, people have been saying that Howard's strong play gives the team confidence. What do you think this weak play from Howard has done to the teams confidence?

Again, how do you think the team feels when the goalie gives up a crap rebound leading to a goal 30 seconds in to game 3 after 2 shaky games that make up the entirety of Howard's playoff experience? If you can say that the team plays better in front of Howard because of his strong play in the regular season, how is it not reasonable to suggest that the team is looking less confident as Howard has looked less confident?

And don't get me wrong, I am absolutely not a Howard hater, and the damn writers were writing this about the Wings and Howard after he struggled to hold a lead in game 2, let alone today's mess.

At the end of the day, I see a rookie goalie who's learning the hard way what it takes to win in the playoffs. He's shown thus far that he hasn't learned what it takes to make it happen yet in the playoffs. That's okay. I wasn't one of the people feeling like he had to be a superstar hero in his rookie year, and I don't like the kid any less or think any less of him for this. I think he's still got plenty of potential to come out of this in the coming seasons and develop into a strong playoff goalie.

But I'll be damned if I care so little about losing that I'd be willing to watch Howard blow this series just because he "got us here." I don't give a s*** who "got us here." I care about winning. I think Howard would agree with me. I think it's one of the stupidest ******* things in the world to say "we win or lose with Howard." I'm sorry, but I'm a Red Wings fan more than I'm a fan of any individual player, and if a guys not getting it done, you've got to do what it takes to see if the next guy can.

Sometimes you've got to shake things up to get a teams attention, especially after a goalie throws things off. Everyone involved with the team knows that Howard's been huge for us this year, and everyone knows he's a rookie and it takes time for most guys to develop. Just as Osgood had to sit in the regular season, Howard may need to sit in the playoffs to let the veteran who knows how to handle the pressure of the big games do his thing. And Howard might learn a thing or two in the process.

If Howard can't give this team a chance to win (he hasn't thus far), they need to see if Osgood can pull off another "miracle," or just continue to be the strong playoff goalie that he's always been. It's no knock on Howard, it's no grudge and there's most certainly no bias to it. I like Jimmy Howard a lot.

But more than anything, I just want to win.