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Who would you most blame for a round 2 loss?


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#61 redwing711

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 01:13 PM

Defense and goaltending. The defense hasn't been really good. Howard has been solid, but far from great. We've become used to a higher level of goaltending in the last two years.

Coaching.


I agree with you on goaltending. Howard has let in too many backbreaking goals. Everytime the momentum had swung our way he gave it back to San Jose. He played great after 1 goal got scored against him, but once that 2nd on goes in he seems to lose all composure.

I have to disagree somewhat when it comes to our defense. Yes, they did not always play up to the level that has come to be expected of them. The biggest offender IMO was Ericson. He seemed to turn the puck over a lot in our end. However, there were so many times they were forced to take bad penalties because Howard sent a juicy rebound right to a sharks player or he was so far out of position that he couldn't get back when needed. How many times did you see not just our defense, but also some of our forwards crowded into the crease desperately searching for the puck because Howard not only didn't freeze it, but also lost sight of it.

I'm certainly not placing all the blame on him, but I do think this series has made it clear that Howard still needs to grow into the job if we want to have success in the postseason.

#62 Wings_Fan_In_Exile

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 01:27 PM

Voted "other" because I see the entire organization as responsible.

Z has been pretty solid, yet got abused in the faceoff dept in game 2.

Defense has been "meh" in my opinion

Special teams have been mediocre

The team in general didnt seem to be playing playoff hockey to me, as in playing their hearts out, blocking shots,
throwing their bodies around (individual players showed this at times, but not the whole roster, and not consistently).

Howie's let in some softies and based on recent history + no starts I have no reason to believe Ozzy would have been an upgrade

Holland, while handcuffed this summer still didn't meet my approval rating. In fairness he didn't make any boneheaded signings or trades, but he didn't really improve the team either.

I could go on, but that's the gist of it. Like I said before, these guys actually exceeded my expectations. It's sometimes easy to forget how spoiled us Wings fans have been.
thanks offsides!




#63 Crymson

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 01:41 PM

I blame Babcock 100%. Who in their right mind rides a rookie goal tender for 3 months straight? Only giving your experienced back-up 1 game since the Olympic break. Any goalie is going to wear down, especially a rookie who has never played a single play-off game in his career before this year. There were games at the end of the season where Ozzie could have played and even lost, but it still would have given Jimmy a break.

I just hope Jimmy doesn't get the sophomore curse and suck it up all next season like Mason down in Columbus.


Reasoning:

1) The team was fighting for a playoff spot; Howard was hot and Ozzie was not. Osgood had had a horrible regular season in '08-'09, and his showing at the start of this season wasn't so great either.
2) Near the end of the season, the team was fighting for seeding.

Your argument regarding "who in their right mind rides a rookie for three months?" is inane beyond belief, and is no doubt based entirely on the fact that the Wings are not winning at the moment. It is also entirely circumstantial.

#64 hokike

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 01:45 PM

_Holland, while handcuffed this summer still didn't meet my approval rating. In fairness he didn't make any boneheaded signings or trades, but he didn't really improve the team either

.

this is called salary cap. Holland had no room for manouvers. And no, not every hockeyplayer desperately wants to sign with Detroit in spite of horribly biased "LGW view"( this is my preventive respons to "ohwhyohwhy Holland did not sign X player"

Howard has been very pleasant surprise so far. he has done already more than anyone expected anyway.

Btw, Nabakov has allowed softies at every game, but as long as they're winning, is not worth of mentioning.

such is life. In basketball players miss layups but in next time make the last second 3 pt shot.

There is no need to overanalyse every allowed goal and make doomsday predictions surpassing even maya 2012 prophecies.

Edited by hokike, 05 May 2010 - 01:46 PM.

Crosby’s frustration level seemed to reach a boiling point in the final seconds, leading to him cross-checking Zetterberg in the back in front of Detroit goaltender Jimmy Howard(notes).

“I knew it was him without turning around,” Zetterberg said.

#65 F.Michael

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 01:48 PM

I also voted for Howard.

Seems like most people think it's between him and the refs.

As I've mentioned in another post - it always rests upon the shoulders of the goalies, and Dmen (or so that's the perception)...Rarley will you hear any of the forwards being called out.

I dunno; maybe I'm a tad sensitive here 'cause I used to play D :rolleyes:

'Evolution' created by Offsides

#66 Wings_Fan_In_Exile

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 01:53 PM

.

this is called salary cap. Holland had no room for manouvers. And no, not every hockeyplayer desperately wants to sign with Detroit in spite of horribly biased "LGW view"( this is my preventive respons to "ohwhyohwhy Holland did not sign X player"

Agreed. I suppose I should have specified that I disliked the Jason Williams and to a lesser extent Bertuzzi signings. I find it hard to believe they were the only two available at that price range. Of course, if the Hudler thing didn't go down as it did he may have done more. Holland gets the least of my blame, but not a free pass.

There is no need to overanalyse every allowed goal and make doomsday predictions surpassing even maya 2012 prophecies.

Welcome to LGW Summer of 2010 :P
thanks offsides!




#67 Wing-in-avs-town

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 02:11 PM

We are really taking some undisciplined penalties, which I think is a direct reflection of the coach. Yeah, some of them were questionable calls, but we shouldn't even be putting ourselves in that position. I also think he's mismanaged our goaltending situation. Howard is our man, and I'm perfectly fine with that, but we've over used him, and if we had to go to Ozzie, there's no way he's ready. Some of the line-up changes also are questionable.
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#68 InKennyWeTrust

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 02:20 PM

We just came out flat in game 1 and never got our footing back after that. I'd say playing so quickly after an emotional game 7, the refs in game 2, and just a pure lack of energy/motivation/cohesion/whatever to finish game 3 have all combined to make this a difficult series.

Howard hasn't looked good, the offense hasn't looked good, the defense hasn't looked good, and the officiating has been atrocious. I don't think there's any one thing that you can blame this on.

#69 BlakKy

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 02:26 PM

I blame the San Jose Sharks.

#70 Wings_Dynasty

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 02:35 PM

I blame the San Jose Sharks.


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"I think a tough team, a team that sticks together, is a lot better than leaving the onus on one guy to take care of business." - Brendan Shanahan

 

It still would be nice to have that one guy.


#71 motorcitykid

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 02:49 PM

I always get the impression forwards get off a little easy...You'll always hear how it was the defense, or the netminding that led to a lost series, but rarely ever do you see the finger pointed at the guys responsible for scoring goals.

I just laughed at this post.
Do you not remember Edmonton? Calgary? Anaheim? A bunch of noshows in all those previous series a few ago and all forwards. What are you talking about? We s***ted on all of those guys, Shanny etc, at the time for their hugely pathetic goal production.
Scoring 4 goals a game should be enough. Howard has been pathetic in the timing of these sorties. It's one thing to give up one off your ass and in, when the scores 6-0, but in a tight hard fought playoff game where EVERY goal means something especially when you're only up by 1 or 2.
Call a spade a spade. The problem is NOT scoring, it's our goaltending.
And even more frustrating is the fact we ain't even getting much regular production from some of our other guys, yet we ARE scoring enough. Until the puck comes into our zone ....

#72 gcom007

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 02:54 PM

I get that people are blaming Howard, but who's the guy who made the decision in November that lead to putting all our hopes on a rookie goalie?

Mike Babcock.

I said it then and I'll say it now, it was never fair to ask so much out of a rookie. You're setting him up for failure. I don't think he gave Osgood even close to a fair chance to get his game going after coming back from illness, and had he done so, we no doubt would've been able to keep a rotation going that kept us in the playoff race and allowed for both goalies to be ready to go in the playoffs.

Howard may have s*** the bed, but he's a rookie, and I'm not going to hold that against him. This one's on Babcock.
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#73 motorcitykid

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 02:59 PM

As bad as the refs have been, I voted Howard for much the same reason as everyone else who did so. For me, its bad enough to give up 4 goals per game in the playoffs (you're not going to win many games that way) but the way he let in those goals was the real killer for this team. Goals after Red Wings goals, soft goals through the five-hole or being out of position, multiple quick goals against, goals off of poor rebound control, goals at the end of the period. I knew this team was in trouble when after the Cleary goal everyone seemed to KNOW they were going to give up a goal in the less than 90 seconds left in the period and sure enough 2 seconds left and Howard lets in a softy five-hole. It was all down hill from there.

Howard limped through the first series spare a game or two and he has done nothing to help the Wings this series. He is a rookie and its understandable he is getting his first playoff disappointment under his belt hopefully leading to future success with a healthier, more rested team. That doesn't change the fact that with slightly better than mediocre goaltending (and competent officiating) the Wings could be one game down or even up in this series. They haven't gotten that, so they are on the verge of a sweep.

Really. Stop with this tired crap. Geez the media won't throw us a bone, ever, and even the horribly bias Canadian press has made the point since the start of the playoffs that a team who may suprise was the Wings because THEY ARE RESTED. Cmon!!
Some of these guys had half a season off. Babcock mentioned this exact point earlier today. Rest is NOT the reason.
Now if you wanna argue fitness/game shape fine. It may be a factor but not the way we've played. We've lost 3 straight by a goal. It ain't because the team is tired. People act like it's all of us out there playing. These guys are in tip top physical conditioning minus the guys banged up like Raffi, Eaves.

#74 hokike

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 03:03 PM

Howard may have s*** the bed, but he's a rookie, and I'm not going to hold that against him. This one's on Babcock.


it has been discussed already here ad nauseaum. Ogood was projected starting goalie but he did absolutely everything to loose his job. Later team had no chance than ride on Howard because team deperstely needed points. there was no room for errors anymore.

in short : without Howard = no playoffs.
Crosby’s frustration level seemed to reach a boiling point in the final seconds, leading to him cross-checking Zetterberg in the back in front of Detroit goaltender Jimmy Howard(notes).

“I knew it was him without turning around,” Zetterberg said.

#75 nate94gt

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 03:05 PM

I blame taking a break and trying to sit on a 2 goal lead on tonight's loss. If anything is consistent, it's this and has been for years. A 2 goal lead isn't a sure-fire win and we've been acting like it has been for a long time.
As for the last 2, I'll be in the corner crafting my tin-foil head gear and continue to be pissed at the refs for the 10 PKs we had in the last game alone.

Bingo. no lead is safe, they need to remember that. they had a lot of losses this year after having a 2+ goal lead.

#76 EasyMark

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 03:07 PM

Other -

1- The Sharks. They are better than generally acknowledged. Case in point: The Sharks led the league in faceoffs. The value of faceoff control in the playoffs can't be overstated. The Sharks are the RedWings:The Next Generation. The system and coach are RedWing clones.

2- Luck. Forget about the refs. The Sharks are capitailizing on the breaks. Game 2, Lids breaks a stick leading to the game winner. Game 3, Sharks make a bad line change but a wide shot ends up on Thornton's stick with Marleau on a 2 on 1.

These two teams are very evenly matched. To go deep in the playoffs a team has to be lucky and good. IMO, that's the difference in this series so far.

Just my opinion.
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#77 FedorovGurl

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 03:21 PM

I thought the usual suspects are always : Bettman, Uwe Krupp, Robert Lange, Matthieu Dandenault, and Sammy????????????

:yowza:
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#78 PKRUSE

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 03:25 PM

   First let's talk about Howard, over and over fans and critics alike are pointing to his missed saves and over looking those he made. On numbers alone Howard is superior to Nabokov, but he also has more self control, he doesn't give up after a few misses. Nabokov is not thought of as the best Goalie in his home town. He is barley tolerated after so many lackluster showings.

Howard is not to blame!

The Ref's… Well fine clearly they made some bad calls and missed others but if you put their bad calls and missed calls on a scale I think everyone will agree (even if only privately) that the Red Wings have alot more on the plus side of bad calls and missed calls then their opponents. I'll even go so far as to say that I think the team and fans have become accustomed to a certain level of favoritism on the part of officiating to the point that when a game is called even Detroit feels slighted.

The Ref's are not to blame either!

Babcock: He is the coach, responsibility begins and stops with him. Its coaching that keeps the team from laying off when they have a lead, its coaching that pulls a goalie if they go cold and its coaching that gets the team to calm down and regain their composure. Babcock is very likely the best coach in all of professional hockey today and you gotta believe when he got home he looked in the mirror and verbally B**** slapped himself. Nobody including the Sharks expects to see Detroit lose game 4 and you can rest assured that the Coaching is going to be precise.

One last thing, the wings were beat by another team, they didn't lose because they suck. They lost because another team was able to capitalize on their mistakes. In the playoffs it's all about who sees a hole and attacks first on a sheet of ice with precious few holes. 

#79 ben_usmc

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 04:29 PM

   First let's talk about Howard, over and over fans and critics alike are pointing to his missed saves and over looking those he made. On numbers alone Howard is superior to Nabokov, but he also has more self control, he doesn't give up after a few misses. Nabokov is not thought of as the best Goalie in his home town. He is barley tolerated after so many lackluster showings.

Howard is not to blame!

The Ref's… Well fine clearly they made some bad calls and missed others but if you put their bad calls and missed calls on a scale I think everyone will agree (even if only privately) that the Red Wings have alot more on the plus side of bad calls and missed calls then their opponents. I'll even go so far as to say that I think the team and fans have become accustomed to a certain level of favoritism on the part of officiating to the point that when a game is called even Detroit feels slighted.

The Ref's are not to blame either!

Babcock: He is the coach, responsibility begins and stops with him. Its coaching that keeps the team from laying off when they have a lead, its coaching that pulls a goalie if they go cold and its coaching that gets the team to calm down and regain their composure. Babcock is very likely the best coach in all of professional hockey today and you gotta believe when he got home he looked in the mirror and verbally B**** slapped himself. Nobody including the Sharks expects to see Detroit lose game 4 and you can rest assured that the Coaching is going to be precise.

One last thing, the wings were beat by another team, they didn't lose because they suck. They lost because another team was able to capitalize on their mistakes. In the playoffs it's all about who sees a hole and attacks first on a sheet of ice with precious few holes. 

What kind of buls*** is this? Are you really trying to tell me that game 2 officiating was fair and wings fans are just used to a bias, howf****** stupid and insulting of you.

Edited by ben_usmc, 05 May 2010 - 04:30 PM.

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#80 cjm502

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 05:00 PM

Well I think Crosby is the obvious choice here.
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