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Lidstrom for life

Bertuzzi states he will either stay with wings or retire

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I sure hope this is what we do.

Miller is a solid player but we don't really need him, have more than enough bottom 6 forwards and PK's.

Helm/Eaves

Flip/Cleary

With help from Dats, Hank and Draper if need be.

I agree that if Ritola has a solid camp and plays well in the PS matches then I see us trading Miller.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that Babcock said starting next season Abdelkader will be starting on the PK full time.

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If you're implying it's because he started slacking off once he got his NTC, I don't think that's the reason.

2010/04/04 Missed 4 games (groin).

2010/03/27 Groin, day-to-day.

2010/03/24 Missed 2 games (groin).

2010/03/22 Groin, day-to-day.

2010/01/07 Missed 12 games (separated shoulder).

2009/12/10 Separated shoulder, mid-January.

2008/11/28 Missed 8 games (left eye injury).

2008/11/11 Left eye injury, day-to-day.

2008/03/25 Missed 19 games (broken jaw).

2008/03/11 Signed by the Detroit Red Wings to a five-year contract extension.

He's not been the same since he broke his jaw, and has had a nagging groin injury, bad eye, and a bad knee. The biggest question mark with Cleary is his health, and so far things are sounding positive.

If you look at his history, he has always had injury problems.

06/07 71 games 20 goals

07/08 63 games 20 goals

08/09 74 games 14 goals

09/10 64 games 15 goals

Really he doesn't need a NTC because his 2.8M cap hit for what he has produced since that signing insures that no other team would want him..

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Right. Cleary put up another 40-point season with a solid defensive contribution in '08-'09 while playing on the 3rd line, while putting in his usual defensive performance. Then he scored nine goals and six assists with a whopping plus-17 in the playoffs. The only person who even came close to that +/- was Zetterberg at a +13. This entire season he was playing injured.

This sort of comment makes it clear that you've no compunction against making arguments that are absolutely not backed up with facts. Oh, wait... you joined here two months ago. Typical.

Filppula? Yeah, let's see. He was on the verge of a breakout season before he was injured as was, he put up 35 points in 55 games on a roster that saw a whole lot of other injuries. In the '08-'09 playoffs, he was our 4th-leading scorer, and he put up 9 points in 12 games in this year's playoffs.

Once again....

And he coudlve been watching detroit play for 25 years your post is so stupid

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And he coudlve been watching detroit play for 25 years your post is so stupid

Well I went to games at Olympia Stadium which closed before smart mouth was born.

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...and Filppula has always "been on the verge".

This was only Filppula's 4th full season. He did show considerable improvement in his 2nd. That improvement, and a nice contract, led a lot of fans to think he was somehow supposed to turn into an all-star while playing on the third line with almost no PP time the next year. So, even though he did improve that year, some people just looked at the lack of goals and thought of it as a disappointment. Failing to meet unrealistic fan expectations doesn't make him a disappointment.

This last year was the first time Flip was really expected to step up. Then he got stuck on the third line again to start the year, and had a significant injury. Despite that his play did improve considerably. He was easily our third best forward in the playoffs.

...

Both Filppula and Cleary are overpaid by 40% for what they have brought to the table the past 2 seasons. Hell Homer deserves more than either one of them, and don't give me any s*** about them being injured, Homer takes more of a beating than both of them put together.

There's more to the game than scoring. Homer scores a little more, but doesn't do any of the other things as well. Then Homer has to take a discount due to his age. Fair or not, his age is an additional risk factor that has to be considered when valuing a contract. If Homer was 27 or 30, he almost certainly would be paid more than Flip or Cleary.

Z and D for the C likes this

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Alex Tanguay's career is over.Wait,did it ever..begin?

I'd say several seasons of over a PPG player, and several good playoff runs would make a more than average career.

dobbles likes this

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Yeah, Cleary sucks. He's never scored any clutch goals and can't play in any situations. LET'S TRADE HIM!!!! Good thing he doesn't have a NTC!!!

GoWings1905 likes this

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what a bum

why did we even sign that waste of space in the first place?

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Dan Cleary should be traded. He's not a top 6 forward, and he's getting paid way to much.

Give your head a shake

cjm502 likes this

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This was only Filppula's 4th full season. He did show considerable improvement in his 2nd. That improvement, and a nice contract, led a lot of fans to think he was somehow supposed to turn into an all-star while playing on the third line with almost no PP time the next year. So, even though he did improve that year, some people just looked at the lack of goals and thought of it as a disappointment. Failing to meet unrealistic fan expectations doesn't make him a disappointment.

This last year was the first time Flip was really expected to step up. Then he got stuck on the third line again to start the year, and had a significant injury. Despite that his play did improve considerably. He was easily our third best forward in the playoffs.

There's more to the game than scoring. Homer scores a little more, but doesn't do any of the other things as well. Then Homer has to take a discount due to his age. Fair or not, his age is an additional risk factor that has to be considered when valuing a contract. If Homer was 27 or 30, he almost certainly would be paid more than Flip or Cleary.

So you think Cleary and Filppula are both good value for 3M? And Homer should make less because he is older? Well I'll take Homer's 45 points in 68 games to Cleary's 34 in 65 games any day. The Wing's PP without Homer is dismal, what in the Wing's game is missing when Cleary is not playing? Cleary, in my opinion has not been the same since he got hit in the face with the puck.

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So you think Cleary and Filppula are both good value for 3M? And Homer should make less because he is older? Well I'll take Homer's 45 points in 68 games to Cleary's 34 in 65 games any day. The Wing's PP without Homer is dismal, what in the Wing's game is missing when Cleary is not playing? Cleary, in my opinion has not been the same since he got hit in the face with the puck.

Didn't he just have a surgery to correct some nagging injury recently? I may be mistaken but I think I just read that he expects to be healthier and hungrier than ever in his career come October.

Edit: found the article http://www.freep.com/article/20100526/SPORTS05/100526058/Red-Wings%5C--Dan-Cleary-OK-after-knee-surgery

Edited by Echolalia

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Didn't he just have a surgery to correct some nagging injury recently? I may be mistaken but I think I just read that he expects to be healthier and hungrier than ever in his career come October.

Edit: found the article http://www.freep.com/article/20100526/SPORTS05/100526058/Red-Wings%5C--Dan-Cleary-OK-after-knee-surgery

I think last year was a bad year for Cleary from all the injuries, I am predicting right now that he is going to come back rejuvinated and determined as hell next year and have a career year in pts.

Go ahead and bookmark it now and call me out at the end of next year if I'm wrong.

EDIT - the call me out comment to was the Cleary haters, not directed towards you Echolalia

Edited by stevkrause

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I think last year was a bad year for Cleary from all the injuries, I am predicting right now that he is going to come back rejuvinated and determined as hell next year and have a career year in pts.

Go ahead and bookmark it now and call me out at the end of next year if I'm wrong.

EDIT - the call me out comment to was the Cleary haters, not directed towards you Echolalia

Hey no problem. If Cleary puts his body where his mouth is and delivers I'll be pleased even if he doesn't have a career year. Although if Babs ends up throwing Huds on the third line to have 3 scoring lines its definitely possible that Cleary puts up a personal best.

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So you think Cleary and Filppula are both good value for 3M? And Homer should make less because he is older? Well I'll take Homer's 45 points in 68 games to Cleary's 34 in 65 games any day. The Wing's PP without Homer is dismal, what in the Wing's game is missing when Cleary is not playing? Cleary, in my opinion has not been the same since he got hit in the face with the puck.

Cleary and Flip can both play in any situation. Scoring line, checking line, protecting a late lead, trying to get a late goal, PP, PK, 5v5, 4v4.

Homer can play 5v5 and PP, on a scoring line in an offense role only.

Homer is 37 and was given a 2 year contract. We have to pay his cap hit regardless if he retires, his production falls off the map, or gets worn out and has to sit out to rest every other game. Also, at his age, logic dictates that his abilities are degrading. Granted he had one of his best years this last year, but we still have to assume that next year he will not be quite as good, and decline even further the next. And finally Homer's age, play style, and recent injury history suggest strongly that he will likely miss some significant time over the next two years. So yes, Homer's age is a big factor.

Filppula is still young enough that he could still show even significant improvement. At the very least, he should maintain his current abilities for several more years. He had a similar ppg rate as Homer, and is much more versatile. In terms of market value, he is worth more than Homer at this point. He was underutilized and then had a serious injury, so his production hasn't been quite where we'd like for that money, but we could afford to put him on the 3rd line two years ago, and you can't really complain about one injury in four years. He's also always stepped his play up a notch in the playoffs. He had as many goals, and 2 more assists in the playoffs than Homer. A full season on a top line, with a good amount of PP time, I would expect him to outscore Homer as well as all the other things he does better.

Cleary has a $2.8 cap hit. He spent a lot of time on a top line a couple years ago, and his production wasn't very good. Then he's been nagged by injuries pretty much all this past season. He's 31 and missed around 10-20 games just about every year. He's a little overpriced (or has been at least), and the NTC does seem strange. But there is at least as good a chance that Cleary can get back to or improve on his 20g/40p level as there is for Homer to hit those marks. So factoring in all the rest that Cleary can do and Homer's multi-year discount, the two deals are pretty similar.

At least one of Cleary, Flip, or Hudler will be on the third line this year, and be 'overpaid' for it. I wouldn't say any of them are discounts, while Homer slightly is (Hudler might be, we'll see). But in terms of market value (which is just as important as player value) they all should be getting more than Homer.

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Hey no problem. If Cleary puts his body where his mouth is and delivers I'll be pleased even if he doesn't have a career year. Although if Babs ends up throwing Huds on the third line to have 3 scoring lines its definitely possible that Cleary puts up a personal best.

agreed... I just don't think he's been fully healthy for a couple years and the long playoff runs don't help... I think everyone on the team is going to look pretty rejuvenated next year and this will be a VERY different Wings team than 09-10, even though the roster will be primarily the same...

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With 5 pages, I could have easily missed this; but I Ansar Khan mentioned in an article about the potential Bertuzzi signing that he may not only remain at his current $1.5mil - but may actually get a pay cut.

Holland would like to re-sign forward Todd Bertuzzi. But Bertuzzi must decide whether to return to Detroit -- possibly at the same $1.5 million salary he earned last season or less -- or seek a better deal on the open market.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2010/06/signing_todd_bertuzzi_next_on.html

Is anyone arguing Bertuzzi at $1mil?

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The sheer fact we are discussing trading Cleary in this Bert thread just baffles me and LGW never ceases to amaze with the amount of ass hats that sign in here everyday to say this. The man fought through a torn meniscus which everyone condemns him for and some think thats just sheer Cleary warrior stuff. I am of the latter thinking this guy would die for the Wings on the ice. You NEVER get rid of guys that carry this much respect in the locker room and you NEVER forget what this guy has done during both Cup runs. Clears will be back at 100% and for most thats still not enough but for me that gets me pumped. IF Bert will sign for the right price bring him back. If he retires get somebody else then, I am ok either way. But give up the Cleary bashing.... rolleyes.gif

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With 5 pages, I could have easily missed this; but I Ansar Khan mentioned in an article about the potential Bertuzzi signing that he may not only remain at his current $1.5mil - but may actually get a pay cut.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2010/06/signing_todd_bertuzzi_next_on.html

Is anyone arguing Bertuzzi at $1mil?

I would. We don't need another borderline top 6 forward, bargain priced or not. I'd rather the money be spent on someone who can play a better role on the 3rd or 4th line, and also someone younger who could be part of this team moving forward.

Not saying Bert would be the worst thing to ever happen, just wouldn't be my first choice.

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With 5 pages, I could have easily missed this; but I Ansar Khan mentioned in an article about the potential Bertuzzi signing that he may not only remain at his current $1.5mil - but may actually get a pay cut.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2010/06/signing_todd_bertuzzi_next_on.html

Is anyone arguing Bertuzzi at $1mil?

If he will re-sign for even the same 1.5 (let alone for LESS) - it's a no brainer and an absolute steal for that caphit v. point production...

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In other news, how in God's name is Alligator due for a raise?

If nothing else he is due a raise because in order to sign a Abby to an offer sheet he must receive an offer from the Wings of 105% of his salary last season (Players who earned less than $660,000 in the previous season must be offered 110 percent of last season's salary - Players making up to $1 million must be offered 105 percent - Players making over $1 million must be offered 100 percent.) If the Wings don't make at least that offer they lose his negotiating rights which turns him into a UFA and the Wings get no compensation if he signs with another team.

Miller was a key member of the PK and potted 10 goals. He's definitely worth keeping.

I agree not only did Miller get 10 goals for the Wings but as a midseason pickup he got those goals playing only 66 games for the Wings (and ended up with 19 points). I definitely think they should keep him for his price.

Dan Cleary should be traded. He's not a top 6 forward, and he's getting paid way to much.

If that is true, why would any team trade for him. Not many teams out there looking for a guy who is getting paid way too much.

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