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Lidstrom for life

Bertuzzi states he will either stay with wings or retire

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I agree with the Miller redundancy. I hate to say it, but I always find myself placing him last or almost last when trying to write up lines for next season, there's just too many options that could replace him or eventually surpass him. Like you said, he earned his keep. It's just crappy he did it when so many others did as well.

yeah its really tough to fit him in there, but this is not a bad thing. It just means that this team is still really deep. everyone complains about not having a scoring third line, well how about

bert(if he comes back)/abby/cleary third line? abby's offense is underrated on this board, he played with may and maltby for most of the year. I think a cleary/bert/abby line would be an excellent third line that can do some scoring.

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It's a lot more possible when you stop trying to run 2 scoring lines and 2 checking lines. That's basically what we had last year, and the grit was spread too thin over the bottom 2 lines and neither was of any consequence. One or two guys in the lineup who are more geared to scoring would be all it takes to set up three dedicated scoring lines, that brings back the offensive depth and helps run the opposing team's D-Corp more ragged.

It can be done, and I say it should be done.

I think that could be awfully difficult to do successfully given the amount some of the top players are paid. To go for a scoring third line, you'd be getting Williams-caliber scorers. That's all we can afford. I'd much rather have a half-ass grinding line than a line full of Williams.

Edited by Zetts

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There's no payroll room to bring a marquee forward in

Ville Leino appears to have a reasonable contract for a top line forward! (I'm sorry, awful joke, it hurts a bit though)

I'd really like to bring Bert back, I wish for his sake that he could end his career on a high note or do something notable to improve his standing in the eyes of fans around the league. He is still viewed in the same light as Michael Vick by many, and I hate that he's not able to redeem himself from the one moment that defined his career (Jim Joyce? we'll see)

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Thats ok, I get negged by someone who has an issues with me just because I dislike Hudler. I think its hilarious.

I get negged for hating the Blackhawks. :hehe:

Seriously, though, for that price Bertuzzi would be awesome to have back in Detroit. I hope he and Franzen can continue to play together and develop some kind of chemistry.

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I think that could be awfully difficult to do successfully given the amount some of the top players are paid. To go for a scoring third line, you'd be getting Williams-caliber scorers. That's all we can afford. I'd much rather have a half-ass grinding line than a line full of Williams.

Well, let's look at it this way. Williams was brought in for $1.5 Million. He got 15 points in 44 games and was invisible in the playoffs so we won't worry about that. Just glancing through some of the free agent RW's heading to market soon, right away I find (don't groan) Maxim Afinogenov, who in comparison to Williams, played last year at $800K and played all season without serious injury and got 61 points. Now obviously after a season like that, he's going to get a raise -- and apparently an offer from Atlanta is already on the table for him to come back -- but even supposing he goes up to Williams' $1.5 Million, I'll take him over Jason 8 days out of 7! You throw him on the 1st/2nd line, maybe as redwingfan19 suggested you move Bert down to the third line to add more shifty offense, and with one move you're looking at a much scarier set of three lines.

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Draper's contract is a big fat joke

It's bad, but it really isn't much of a problem. $1.5m isn't that bad for Drapes, he brings a lot of intangibles.

Veery likes this

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...In other news, how in God's name is Alligator due for a raise? The guy led (and still does) the playoffs in penalty minutes, is a minus player, and contributed a measly 6 points. I never understood the love for this guy. Oh, I'm sorry, he "sometimes tries to hit things". We might as well have kept Downey then and gave him a raise....at least Downey freakin fought. Man o man I scratch my head at this stuff sometimes. ...

I'm fairly sure that under the terms of the CBA, he's due a small increase up to roughly 890k. Hopefully that would be the extent of it, for now.

Automatic raises are for qualifying offers, but we could sign him for less if he agreed to it. Also, I believe the raise is based off actual salary from the last year ($710k in this case). That would mean a 5% raise to ~$745.

That said, he's a good young player that should develop into a solid 3rd liner. Good defensively, decent offensive potential, pretty good size, not slow, likes to hit, will drop the gloves on occasion. (Funny that you complain about his penalties, then praise Downey for fighting. 26 of Abby's penalty minutes were either fights or scrums sticking up for teammates. Only one of those penalties resulted in an opposing PP. And that was late in a game we were losing 5-1.)

$900k-1M would be a good price for him.

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Automatic raises are for qualifying offers, but we could sign him for less if he agreed to it. Also, I believe the raise is based off actual salary from the last year ($710k in this case). That would mean a 5% raise to ~$745.

That said, he's a good young player that should develop into a solid 3rd liner. Good defensively, decent offensive potential, pretty good size, not slow, likes to hit, will drop the gloves on occasion. (Funny that you complain about his penalties, then praise Downey for fighting. 26 of Abby's penalty minutes were either fights or scrums sticking up for teammates. Only one of those penalties resulted in an opposing PP. And that was late in a game we were losing 5-1.)

$900k-1M would be a good price for him.

abby will be a 20 goal scorer in this league. He has a good shot, decent hands, and strong on the puck. If he ever develops a net presence along the lines of franzen or bertuzzi he could achieve this.

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LOL Cleary hasn't done s*** since he got his NTC and Filppula is about as reliable as the weather forecast.

Right. Cleary put up another 40-point season with a solid defensive contribution in '08-'09 while playing on the 3rd line, while putting in his usual defensive performance. Then he scored nine goals and six assists with a whopping plus-17 in the playoffs. The only person who even came close to that +/- was Zetterberg at a +13. This entire season he was playing injured.

This sort of comment makes it clear that you've no compunction against making arguments that are absolutely not backed up with facts. Oh, wait... you joined here two months ago. Typical.

Filppula? Yeah, let's see. He was on the verge of a breakout season before he was injured as was, he put up 35 points in 55 games on a roster that saw a whole lot of other injuries. In the '08-'09 playoffs, he was our 4th-leading scorer, and he put up 9 points in 12 games in this year's playoffs.

Once again....

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Hey man, gotta admire the dedication and loyalty on Bertuzzi's part. The guy doesn't want to go anywhere else. Sign him Kenny, and just add in bold print to the contract that he has to listen to an audio self-help tape called "Two hands Are Better Than One".

In other news, how in God's name is Alligator due for a raise? The guy led (and still does) the playoffs in penalty minutes, is a minus player, and contributed a measly 6 points. I never understood the love for this guy. Oh, I'm sorry, he "sometimes tries to hit things". We might as well have kept Downey then and gave him a raise....at least Downey freakin fought. Man o man I scratch my head at this stuff sometimes. Also, we're keeping Miller? Is that really necessary? Didn't see him in the Wings future to be honest. Would have rather dipped a bit into the free agent market. A raise for Speedy Gonzalez and Eaves is understandable though. Oh, and weren't the last like 3 years supposed to be "step-up seasons" for Filppula and Cleary? ;)

Miller was a key member of the PK and potted 10 goals. He's definitely worth keeping.

Osgood the Best likes this

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Miller was a key member of the PK and potted 10 goals. He's definitely worth keeping.

i think wings will only be able to keep one of miller and eaves, but I guess they could keep both if bert doesn't come back

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.... Oh, and weren't the last like 3 years supposed to be "step-up seasons" for Filppula and Cleary? ;)

Not really. For Flip, only this last year really was, and that was derailed a bit by his injury. And he still improved.

For Cleary, I think we were happy with him as a 20 goal/40 point guy who could play in any situation. Then his goals dropped a bit, and we were hoping he'd do better this year to help replace some of the lost offense. He was baged up for most of the season, and with all the other injuries, I don't think he was too bad.

It's a lot more possible when you stop trying to run 2 scoring lines and 2 checking lines. That's basically what we had last year, and the grit was spread too thin over the bottom 2 lines and neither was of any consequence. One or two guys in the lineup who are more geared to scoring would be all it takes to set up three dedicated scoring lines, that brings back the offensive depth and helps run the opposing team's D-Corp more ragged.

It can be done, and I say it should be done.

....

Well, let's look at it this way. Williams was brought in for $1.5 Million. He got 15 points in 44 games and was invisible in the playoffs so we won't worry about that. Just glancing through some of the free agent RW's heading to market soon, right away I find (don't groan) Maxim Afinogenov, who in comparison to Williams, played last year at $800K and played all season without serious injury and got 61 points. Now obviously after a season like that, he's going to get a raise -- and apparently an offer from Atlanta is already on the table for him to come back -- but even supposing he goes up to Williams' $1.5 Million, I'll take him over Jason 8 days out of 7! You throw him on the 1st/2nd line, maybe as redwingfan19 suggested you move Bert down to the third line to add more shifty offense, and with one move you're looking at a much scarier set of three lines.

We tried to have 3 scoring lines this past year. Then we got hit by the inuries. It's not like we started the season with a 4th line of May-Miller-Maltby.

What our attempt at 3 scoring lines got us Bert and Cleary on the 2nd line, Williams and a woefully underperforming Leino on the 3rd. Had Willy and Flip not gotten hurt, that third line might have broekn through and started scoring (they were playing well, just not finishing), but the 2nd line would have still been weak.

3 scoring lines in the cap era means you have to have some players performing well over their contracts. For that, you have to be lucky in FA or the draft. Not something you can really plan on.

Afinogenov was a $3m player, had a couple bad years, a lot of injury problem, and some questions about his work ethic. No one wanted to take a chance on him. Atlanta did and it paid off. We could offer him $1.5 and he'd most likely laugh at us. He will probably get back close to $3. Prospal was another guy no one seemed to want that turned into a bargain. You might even put Bert in that group.

We could try the same thing this year with Bert, and/or maybe someone like Tanguay or Chris Higgins, but you have to realize there's just as much chance for moves like that to turn out the way Williams did.

I'd rather bring in someone like Nystrom or Asham that are more sure bets, and hopefully save some room for the deadline.

JKEITH81 and Uncle Danny like this

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It's bad, but it really isn't much of a problem. $1.5m isn't that bad for Drapes, he brings a lot of intangibles.

That used to be the case with Drapes, but I'm not so sure anymore. He's got a ton of heart and I appreciate all he's done for this franchise over the years, but he definitely isn't worth his contract for next season.

He plays less than 12 minutes a game, doesn't really kill penalties anymore, doesn't really take many faceoffs (he had 319, one more this season than Abby). He's still got decent speed and he hits guy, but when you're talking about losing a bigger, much younger, cheaper player like Drew Miller, that $1.5 mill and roster spot definitely hurts.

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How long do we have to keep waiting for guys like Dan Cleary and Valtteri Filppula to have a so-called "step-up" season?

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I hate to exploit Bertuzzi's comments. But if the guy is saying he'll play with us or retire, I say give him league minimum. Not to say he's only worth league minimum, but if he accepted a dirt cheap contract that would obviously help the team out immensely. And if he's going to retire anyway, why not accept a cheap deal?

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Oh, and weren't the last like 3 years supposed to be "step-up seasons" for Filppula and Cleary? ;)

3 years ago was Filppula's second season as a Wing.

Filppula HAS stepped it up, each of the last 2 seasons. In 08-09 he was delegated to the third line and got zero power play time. He was 76th in the league in even strength scoring on that third line. That's more than Kane had, with 150 less minutes.

In 09-10 he was out for a third of the season and played with fourth liners for a while after he got back from his injury but still managed to have a career year in points per game and had 28 points in 33 games.

In short, you're an idiot.

As for Bertuzzi, if Holland isn't going to sign anyone else anyway, we may as well sign him again.

Edited by Z and D for the C
Zeowingsfan and Cheveldae32 like this

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I hate to exploit Bertuzzi's comments. But if the guy is saying he'll play with us or retire, I say give him league minimum. Not to say he's only worth league minimum, but if he accepted a dirt cheap contract that would obviously help the team out immensely. And if he's going to retire anyway, why not accept a cheap deal?

Right but Kenny would never do that. He likes to pay his players fairly according to their market value. It's a good way to conduct business.

Hockeymom1960 likes this

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Right but Kenny would never do that. He likes to pay his players fairly according to their market value. It's a good way to conduct business.

He need to do that now or they won't be able to put a top team on the ice come october...if bertuzzi wants to play for the same or more than 1.5M it will hurt the team alot..

titanium2 likes this

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Right but Kenny would never do that. He likes to pay his players fairly according to their market value. It's a good way to conduct business.

I think giving Bertuzzi money period is a good thing in his mind.

Either 1 mil or 0 mil next season. What do you think Bert is going to take?

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He must not be looking for much cash if he's gonna hang them up. We should be able to get a bargain. Unless of course he's gonna play it childsih with the whole "that's not enough money for me, I'm not playing anymore" game, which would be really lame.

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I think giving Bertuzzi money period is a good thing in his mind.

Either 1 mil or 0 mil next season. What do you think Bert is going to take?

Kenny won't low ball him, imo. He's a businessman but he does treat his players well. It's a requirement for having the title of "First Class organization." My thinking is that Kenny will make him a fair offer based on his age, health, production, etc. and Bert will just take it if he wants to play. Then you're gonna have a lot of upset people on LGW who think he got too much especially those who can't stop bringing up his past.

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Hey man, gotta admire the dedication and loyalty on Bertuzzi's part. The guy doesn't want to go anywhere else. Sign him Kenny, and just add in bold print to the contract that he has to listen to an audio self-help tape called "Two hands Are Better Than One".

In other news, how in God's name is Alligator due for a raise? The guy led (and still does) the playoffs in penalty minutes, is a minus player, and contributed a measly 6 points. I never understood the love for this guy. Oh, I'm sorry, he "sometimes tries to hit things". We might as well have kept Downey then and gave him a raise....at least Downey freakin fought. Man o man I scratch my head at this stuff sometimes. Also, we're keeping Miller? Is that really necessary? Didn't see him in the Wings future to be honest. Would have rather dipped a bit into the free agent market. A raise for Speedy Gonzalez and Eaves is understandable though. Oh, and weren't the last like 3 years supposed to be "step-up seasons" for Filppula and Cleary? ;)

I think we all know he's a kid who is one of those "retire a Wing" type of guys, and maybe down the road when he's due to receive more money than we can afford, he'll take a slight cut, knowing we were generous when he was young and learning.

It's a long shot but hey, I wouldn't put it past Holland. Or maybe instead of trying to keep him at this amount for a short term deal, and having him earn a big amount once that deal is up, maybe Holland is going to try to tie him up for a few extra years and get some value out of him when he starts to play better. Who knows, I'm sure he has his reasons.

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For those who are trying to figure out Bertuzzi's potential contract...

Holland has signed Lidstrom and Holmstrom, and has stated he will make qualifying offers to all of his RFAs, all before turning his attention to Bertuzzi.

This means our roster could potentially look like this when negotiations with Bertuzzi begin:

FORWARDS

Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.800m)

Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($?.???m)

Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Jiri Hudler ($2.875m) / Patrick Eaves ($0.550m)

Justin Abdelkader ($0.893m) / Darren Helm ($0.659m) / Drew Miller ($0.578m)

Kris Draper ($1.583m)

Mattias Ritola ($0.517m)

DEFENSEMEN

Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($0.900m)

Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) / Brian Rafalski ($6.000m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) / Brad Stuart ($3.750m)

Derek Meech ($0.532m)

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($0.717m)

Chris Osgood ($1.417m)

ROSTER: 22; CAP: $56.8m/$58.8m; PAYROLL: $55.467m; CAP ROOM: $1.333m/$3.333m

So Bertuzzi's contract could be anywhere from $1m to $3m depending on the cap and RFA negotiations. Not unrealistic that he could be kept, but what role would he have? In the lines I listed above, I put together three strong scoring lines. However, two minor changes (Hudler and Franzen for Filppula and Bertuzzi) shift Bertuzzi to a role on a checking third line with a clear secondary scoring role, rather than a line that would be relied on for primary scoring.

JKEITH81 likes this

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