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HHOF Class of 2010.


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#1 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 07:47 AM

From Legends of Hockey

The annual meeting of the Selection Committee will be held in Toronto on June 22, 2010 to select and announce the 2010 inductees. The 2010 Induction Weekend festivities will run from Friday, November 5th through Sunday, November 7th, 2010 culminating with the Induction Celebration on Monday, November 8th, 2010.
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#2 ilmickeyli

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 07:48 AM

C'mon finally get Dino in there :(
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#3 syntax

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 08:40 AM

Joe Nieuwendyk, Pavel Bure and Dino please.
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#4 egroen

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 08:53 AM

Joe Nieuwendyk would be one of the weakest selections ever - I can't believe there is such a media push to get him in on a first ballot.

Basically a 2nd line center not once in the Top 10 for points and never a post-season all-star team selection.

I'm hoping to see Makarov, Oates, Gilmour and Mark Howe.... but wouldn't be surprised to see them all left out, again. Tremblay and Vachon are the other two I believe deserve to get in as well, sooner than later.

As for builder: our own Jimmy Devellano certainly deserves it.

Edited by egroen, 21 June 2010 - 09:30 AM.

Red Kelly #4 and Larry Aurie #6 belong in the rafters!!!

"For my game, I don't need to score the goal," Konstantinov once explained. "I need someone to start thinking about me and forgetting about scoring goals."

#5 HenryMalredo

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 09:19 AM

I put my money on Joe Nieuwendyk being the only first time eligible to get in. 3 cups, a Calder, a Conn Smythe, and he has a good reputation. Doug Gilmour will get in this time around as the HHOF can never let a former Leafs star wait too long. I bet Adam Oates will be last selection. No cups and no awards, but an excellent playmaker, and the former set-up man for Neely and Hull.

#6 Wings_Dynasty

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 09:34 AM

I'm hoping to see Makarov, Oates, Gilmour and Mark Howe.... but wouldn't be surprised to see them all left out, again. Tremblay and Vachon are the other two I believe deserve to get in as well, sooner than later.


Oates and Mark Howe haven't done enough to get in. Gilmour has a Cup. Makarov should be allowed in just for international play, his NHL play was above average but nothing special. By far the most decorated Calder winner ever.

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It still would be nice to have that one guy.


#7 egroen

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 09:44 AM

Oates and Mark Howe haven't done enough to get in. Gilmour has a Cup. Makarov should be allowed in just for international play, his NHL play was above average but nothing special. By far the most decorated Calder winner ever.


The case for Mark Howe, easily one of the best players *not* in the Hall of Fame:

- Made the 1st All-Star Team 3 times, more than Salming, Langway, Savard, LaPointe, Murphy and several other HOFers. In fact, no other player at any position with 3 1st Team selections has been rejected by the Hall.

- Twice a finalist in Hart Trophy voting.

- A top defenseman of the 80s, perhaps the deepest the league has ever been in terms of top-end talent on the blueline (Bourque, Chelios, Coffey are the only ones ahead of him in the 80s)

- Generally considered the best defenceman in the history of the Philadelphia Flyers, one of the most successful teams of the last 40 years.

- Led his team in +/- 7 times in his career, only Bourque and Orr have done that more often. +400 over his career. His +85 in `86 hasn`t been bettered by anyone since then.

- Made it to the Stanley Cup Final twice.

- All-time top playoff point-getter in the WHA. 8th All-time in WHA scoring.

- Had a great career after coming back from a near-fatal extremely gruesome on-ice injury. Class-act player.

Edited by egroen, 21 June 2010 - 09:45 AM.

Red Kelly #4 and Larry Aurie #6 belong in the rafters!!!

"For my game, I don't need to score the goal," Konstantinov once explained. "I need someone to start thinking about me and forgetting about scoring goals."

#8 egroen

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 10:11 AM

Oates and Mark Howe haven't done enough to get in. Gilmour has a Cup. Makarov should be allowed in just for international play, his NHL play was above average but nothing special. By far the most decorated Calder winner ever.


The case for Adam Oates, one of the top playmakers in the history of the NHL:

- Highest point seasons were: 142, 115, 112, 102, 99, 92. 142 pts was in a year where Cam Neely was injured. Top 3 in points three times. Top 10 another 4 times.

- Led the league in assists 3 times. Also finished 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 7 in assists. Both Neely and Hull had by far their best goal-scoring seasons being centered by Oates.

- 2nd Team All-Star selection at center -- against such competition as Gretzky, Lemeiux, Messier and Yzerman.

- Was a Hart finalist

- Was a good two-way player and class act.

Oates was twice the player of someone like Nieuwendyk - Oates was a true 1st line center and star in the NHL. Not only did he compile a lot of points like Nieuwendyk (Oates is 6th all-time in assists and 16th in points), but he also finished amongst the top scorers in the league numerous times (Nieuwendyk was never once Top 10 in points).

Edited by egroen, 21 June 2010 - 10:13 AM.

Red Kelly #4 and Larry Aurie #6 belong in the rafters!!!

"For my game, I don't need to score the goal," Konstantinov once explained. "I need someone to start thinking about me and forgetting about scoring goals."

#9 toby91_ca

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 10:14 AM

Looking at Puck Daddy's odds. I don't get Lindros at 25/1, considering Bure is 2/1.

Looking at stats and awards:

Bure - 702gp, 437g, 779pts (Calder and Rocket*2)
Lindros - 760gp, 372g, 865pts

So, I get that Bure was the better goal scorer and I could even understand why some might consider that he had the better career (not my opinion though), HOWEVER, how does Bure have 2/1 odds and Lindros have 25/1?

Both have far better stats and awards than Neely (who played in a higher scoring era as well), so both should easily get in if you are comparing to Neely, but it doesn't work that way.

#10 luvmnger

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 11:15 AM

dino! dino! dino!

come on.....600+ goals....what does it take to get in these days?
Dino Ciccarelli will always be #1

#11 soultrain

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 12:18 PM

LInk even with the indecent exposure and this slash i think it is time they put him in...thoughts?

#12 Wings_Dynasty

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 12:18 PM

The case for Adam Oates, one of the top playmakers in the history of the NHL:

- Highest point seasons were: 142, 115, 112, 102, 99, 92. 142 pts was in a year where Cam Neely was injured. Top 3 in points three times. Top 10 another 4 times.

- Led the league in assists 3 times. Also finished 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 7 in assists. Both Neely and Hull had by far their best goal-scoring seasons being centered by Oates.

- 2nd Team All-Star selection at center -- against such competition as Gretzky, Lemeiux, Messier and Yzerman.

- Was a Hart finalist

- Was a good two-way player and class act.

Oates was twice the player of someone like Nieuwendyk - Oates was a true 1st line center and star in the NHL. Not only did he compile a lot of points like Nieuwendyk (Oates is 6th all-time in assists and 16th in points), but he also finished amongst the top scorers in the league numerous times (Nieuwendyk was never once Top 10 in points).


That all looks great, but Nieuwendyk:
  • Calder Trophy - 1988
  • King Clancy Memorial Trophy - 1995
  • Conn Smythe Trophy - 1999
  • NHL All-Star Game - 1988, 1989, 1990, 1994
  • Winter Olympics gold medal - 2002
  • Stanley Cup - 1989 (Calgary Flames), 1999 (Dallas Stars), 2003 (New Jersey Devils)
3 Cups vs. 0 Cups. Doesn't mean much to some since other players have Cups and no individual awards, but doing it on 3 different teams is something. Plus, he was nominated and WON awards.

"I think a tough team, a team that sticks together, is a lot better than leaving the onus on one guy to take care of business." - Brendan Shanahan

 

It still would be nice to have that one guy.


#13 Ram

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 12:24 PM

I'm pulling for Dino just as much as anyone else here is.

But I do not understand why Adam Oates is being shot down by some? Both him and Pavel Bure, in my humble opinion, should at least be considered for the Hall from their personal accolades to begin with. The contributions that Bure and Oates made to the game in their time as prime players should not be overlooked.

Joe Nieuwendyk is a no brainer to me. Dougie Gilmour, not so much a no brainer, but I think he'll get in eventually, just for his extended time in Toronto and his performance there.

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#14 egroen

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 12:49 PM

That all looks great, but Nieuwendyk:

  • Calder Trophy - 1988
  • King Clancy Memorial Trophy - 1995
  • Conn Smythe Trophy - 1999
  • NHL All-Star Game - 1988, 1989, 1990, 1994
  • Winter Olympics gold medal - 2002
  • Stanley Cup - 1989 (Calgary Flames), 1999 (Dallas Stars), 2003 (New Jersey Devils)
3 Cups vs. 0 Cups. Doesn't mean much to some since other players have Cups and no individual awards, but doing it on 3 different teams is something. Plus, he was nominated and WON awards.

If your argument is Nieuwedyk has been on better teams than Oates, I'll agree to that.
But I tried to list individual accomplishments for Oates, while more than half of yours were team accomplishments.

As a 2nd line center, Nieuwendyk was definitely good... good enough if there was a Hall of Good. Oates was great.

All Star Games are nothing but popularity contests, but Oates did play in one more than Nieuwendyk.
His 2nd Team All Star Selection I value much more - something Nieuwendyk never accomplished.

These guys started playing at the same time, and Nieuwendyk never approached what Oates was able to accomplish:

Oates top points were -- 142, 115, 112, 102, 99, 92, 82, 82
Compared to Nieundyk's -- 95, 92, 85, 82, 75, 75, 69, 55

Not even comparable.

His Conn Smythe is great, but in his other two Cup years he was hardly a key component: with 23 points in 39 games and a -2 rating.

Oates beats Joe in everything but goal scoring, rookie year and the teams they were on.
Oates scored by far more points, as well as PPG in both the regular season and playoffs.
Both were similar two-way players.

I have a hard time supporting a forward who never even once placed in the Top 10 of the league in points. That does not scream Hall of Fame to me.

Edited by egroen, 21 June 2010 - 12:56 PM.

Red Kelly #4 and Larry Aurie #6 belong in the rafters!!!

"For my game, I don't need to score the goal," Konstantinov once explained. "I need someone to start thinking about me and forgetting about scoring goals."

#15 Buppy

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 01:13 PM

Not a great class, certainly no standouts like Stevie and Brett last year.

Nieuwendyk will probably make it, everyone always seemed to love him. Andreychuk I thought had a decent chance last year, I think has a better chance this year. Gilmour, like Nieuwendyk had a great rep, and being from Toronto probably gets in.

There's a few more deserving candidates, but we might only see 2 or 3 get in. Guys like Dino and Oates don't seem to have the respect, and many don't have really standout stats.

#16 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 02:48 PM

Not a great class, certainly no standouts like Stevie and Brett last year.

Nieuwendyk will probably make it, everyone always seemed to love him. Andreychuk I thought had a decent chance last year, I think has a better chance this year. Gilmour, like Nieuwendyk had a great rep, and being from Toronto probably gets in.

There's a few more deserving candidates, but we might only see 2 or 3 get in. Guys like Dino and Oates don't seem to have the respect, and many don't have really standout stats.


it's pretty hard and unfair to compare guys to Stevie Y. adam oates deserves to be in the Hall, as does dino and his 600+ goals. definately over nieuwendyk that jumped from contender to contender just being a good piece to a obviously great puzzle. bure should take the 3rd spot. that dude was a scoring machine. gilmour and nieuwendyk can go in together next year in matching maple laughs jerseys.

wasn't oates drafted by the wings?? if he stayed with the teams we had, the wings would have had more cups for sure with his set-up skills.

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#17 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 07:36 PM

DINO!DINO!
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#18 egroen

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 07:48 PM

it's pretty hard and unfair to compare guys to Stevie Y. adam oates deserves to be in the Hall, as does dino and his 600+ goals. definately over nieuwendyk that jumped from contender to contender just being a good piece to a obviously great puzzle. bure should take the 3rd spot. that dude was a scoring machine. gilmour and nieuwendyk can go in together next year in matching maple laughs jerseys.

wasn't oates drafted by the wings?? if he stayed with the teams we had, the wings would have had more cups for sure with his set-up skills.

Traded with our assistant coach (MacLean) to St. Louis for Bernie Federko and Tony McKegney.
Federko played one season and promptly retired. McKegney scored 3 points as a Red Wing before he was again traded for spare parts.
Oates went on to score over 100 pts the very next season and would score another 1,200 pts in his career. Even MacLean outproduced Federko in 1990.

Probably the closest Yzerman ever came to outright criticism of Wings management.
Red Kelly #4 and Larry Aurie #6 belong in the rafters!!!

"For my game, I don't need to score the goal," Konstantinov once explained. "I need someone to start thinking about me and forgetting about scoring goals."

#19 EZBAKETHAGANGSTA

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 07:51 PM

The case for Adam Oates, one of the top playmakers in the history of the NHL:

- Highest point seasons were: 142, 115, 112, 102, 99, 92. 142 pts was in a year where Cam Neely was injured. Top 3 in points three times. Top 10 another 4 times.

- Led the league in assists 3 times. Also finished 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 7 in assists. Both Neely and Hull had by far their best goal-scoring seasons being centered by Oates.

- 2nd Team All-Star selection at center -- against such competition as Gretzky, Lemeiux, Messier and Yzerman.

- Was a Hart finalist

- Was a good two-way player and class act.

Oates was twice the player of someone like Nieuwendyk - Oates was a true 1st line center and star in the NHL. Not only did he compile a lot of points like Nieuwendyk (Oates is 6th all-time in assists and 16th in points), but he also finished amongst the top scorers in the league numerous times (Nieuwendyk was never once Top 10 in points).


QFT, he is eaisly one of the best play-makers of all time. I'm always amazed at the fact he was a wing for a short time. I know Hypothetical threads never really accomplish anything, but can you imagine if we had hung onto him and had drafted Jagr instead of Keith P? A few more cups easily in my book.
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#20 GMRwings1983

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 08:09 PM

Russian Rocket baby!!!

I don't know if there's ever been a player in league history that was such a great goal scorer, and yet never played with elite linemates throghout his career.
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