Red Wings re-sign Derek Meech

[redwingfan19 293]

but guys, derek meech was dion phenuefs d partner in junior!

[stevkrause 1,247]

what a waste.

all about retaining assets - good signing, he won't be on the team come end of training camp, but it's good to see us not just giving away assets...

[cjm502 165]

Meech hasnt sucked as hard as Lebda IMO, so im fine with him being our 13th forward 7th defenseman although he will probably still be traded.

[stevkrause 1,247]

Meech hasnt sucked as hard as Lebda IMO, so im fine with him being our 13th forward 7th defenseman although he will probably still be traded.

Agreed 100% - couple that with how much younger he is and I would take Meech over Lebda eve at the same cap hit...

[titanium2 867]

I feel like the phrase, "Holland is just retaining assets-Meech will be traded" should be in the subtitle of this thread. Come on peoples.

[newfy 695]

rofl...

okay

Get a load of this guy. Stevkrause is obviously right here, read what he said guy. It is basically an Entry level contract because he is entering the NHL on this contract and its make or break for him is what he is saying.

Stev is one of the more knowledgeable posters on here and youre clearly on here being a clown but I can't figure out why?

[wingsfaninMA 3]

Get a load of this guy. Stevkrause is obviously right here, read what he said guy. It is basically an Entry level contract because he is entering the NHL on this contract and its make or break for him is what he is saying.

Stev is one of the more knowledgeable posters on here and youre clearly on here being a clown but I can't figure out why?

He played in the NHL two years ago on his elc.

stev also thought huet was canadian. smart guy.

[hooon 1,089]

what a waste.

how are people still not getting this? Stevekrause and others have explained it crystal clearly in multiple threads. People will be traded. There will be lots of competition for those last few spots. We will get assets in return for those who do not make the team. Holland is a genius.

[eva unit zero 271]

Why do people automatically assume Meech will be traded if the Wings sign another defenseman?

Yes, he's hard pressed to make the roster in that situation. But at the same time, what do they do with Kindl/Ericsson?

Lidstrom, Kronwall, Rafalski, Stuart, UFA. That's five. Only room for one.

Yes, one of Kindl or Ericsson could be the #7 guy.

But think about this for a second. Meech is a versatile all-around player who plays every position on the ice but goaltender and makes the league minimum. If he stays as the #7, he's probably the best #7 in the NHL. Kindl and Ericsson each make about $900k, and have much more trade value. They would also be the best #7 if sitting in that spot.

If you're going to have a guy sitting in the press box on most nights (barring injuries) then why pay him $1m when you can pay him half that? Especially when the trade could net you much more in return. The Wings have a good number of offensive defensemen (such as Smith) in the system. If the Wings go UFA, why not trade Kindl/Ericsson and the rights to Larsson to a team that needs a good young defenseman and a good young goaltender in exchange for picks/prospects?

Or what if Meech outplays Ericsson and Kindl, and potential UFA for the #5 spot? Will he still then be traded?

[stevkrause 1,247]

Why do people automatically assume Meech will be traded if the Wings sign another defenseman?

Yes, he's hard pressed to make the roster in that situation. But at the same time, what do they do with Kindl/Ericsson?

Lidstrom, Kronwall, Rafalski, Stuart, UFA. That's five. Only room for one.

Yes, one of Kindl or Ericsson could be the #7 guy.

But think about this for a second. Meech is a versatile all-around player who plays every position on the ice but goaltender and makes the league minimum. If he stays as the #7, he's probably the best #7 in the NHL. Kindl and Ericsson each make about $900k, and have much more trade value. They would also be the best #7 if sitting in that spot.

If you're going to have a guy sitting in the press box on most nights (barring injuries) then why pay him $1m when you can pay him half that? Especially when the trade could net you much more in return. The Wings have a good number of offensive defensemen (such as Smith) in the system. If the Wings go UFA, why not trade Kindl/Ericsson and the rights to Larsson to a team that needs a good young defenseman and a good young goaltender in exchange for picks/prospects?

Or what if Meech outplays Ericsson and Kindl, and potential UFA for the #5 spot? Will he still then be traded?

From a devil's advocate stance, you're dead on, I think the biggest factor in this is indeed how they play in camp... however, just from the time they've already spent in the system and the intangibles, I think it's already a pretty common belief that Ericsson or Kindl would need to play themselves OUT of a spot for this to ever be a possibility...

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

OK signing.

[dragonballgtz 273]

MLive Confirmation: Wings Re-sign Meech to 1-Year, $500,000 Contract

Ansar Khan states Meech "likely to be traded after camp and preseason due to crowded roster."

"Meech will compete for the No. 6 spot in training camp and the preseason, but if he doesn't get it, he'll likely be traded due to the team's crowded roster."

That is the whole quote. The way you broke it up makes it seem he does not have any chance to be a Wing even with a good camp. For $500k that's pretty damn cheap. I thought $750-$800k would be what he signed for.

[eva unit zero 271]

From a devil's advocate stance, you're dead on, I think the biggest factor in this is indeed how they play in camp... however, just from the time they've already spent in the system and the intangibles, I think it's already a pretty common belief that Ericsson or Kindl would need to play themselves OUT of a spot for this to ever be a possibility...

Meech is in the top 7 right now. The only thing that gets him traded is a UFA signing for the third pairing. And even that, as I said before, is unlikely to get him traded as it results in Kindl vs. Ericsson for the last top-six spot.

The most likely situation for the Wings to trade Meech is if the Wings do NOT sign a UFA, and Janik outplays Meech by a considerable amount. Why, you ask? Janik has little trade value, but can pass through waivers without much difficulty, despite being non-exempt. Meech has trade value, but will not make it through waivers. So it's not a matter of Ericsson or Kindl playing themselves below the #6 spot; it's a matter of Meech playing himself below the #7 spot.

Furthermore, Meech has all the tools and ability, if he puts it together, to grab the #5 spot. All of the "Meech will be traded" stuff is more based on the Quincey situation and the fact Meech has been the 7th guy the past couple seasons. Thing is, Lebda and likely Lilja are gone, so two guys who were being used ahead of him are out. Kindl is guaranteed a shot, but hasn't shown himself any better than Meech RIGHT NOW. Ericsson has been horribly inconsistent, and could be the best or worst of the three RIGHT NOW. If there are no signings, it's likely a revolving door between the three unless one claims a spot well ahead of the others.

Currently, the Wings have 12-7-2 signed, with about $3.275m in cap space to sign Helm and Abdelkader. So that shouldn't be an issue. Using this roster, I would set up the following lines:

With DZH:

Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Holmstrom

Hudler/Filppula/Franzen

Cleary/Abdelkader/Bertuzzi

Miller/Helm/Eaves

Draper/Ritola

Lidstrom/Ericsson

Kronwall/Rafalski

Kindl/Stuart

Meech

Howard

Osgood

Without DZH #1:

Hudler/Zetterberg/Franzen

Cleary/Datsyuk/Holmstrom

Bertuzzi/Filppula/Eaves

Miller/Helm/Abdelkader

Without DZH #2:

Hudler/Zetterberg/Franzen

Filppula/Datsyuk/Holmstrom

Cleary/Abdelkader/Bertuzzi

Miller/Helm/Eaves

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

"Meech will compete for the No. 6 spot in training camp and the preseason, but if he doesn't get it, he'll likely be traded due to the team's crowded roster."

That is the whole quote. The way you broke it up makes it seem he does not have any chance to be a Wing even with a good camp. For $500k that's pretty damn cheap. I thought $750-$800k would be what he signed for.

It wasn't meant to confuse people. With Modano seemingly falling out of the running, it's becoming more likely the Wings will spend some of their cash on that veteran 6th Dman. That only makes things more difficult for him to crack the top-6 and if that happens, even with Meech's attractive contract he'll be one of the first offered up as trade-bait.

[eva unit zero 271]

It wasn't meant to confuse people. With Modano seemingly falling out of the running, it's becoming more likely the Wings will spend some of their cash on that veteran 6th Dman. That only makes things more difficult for him to crack the top-6 and if that happens, even with Meech's attractive contract he'll be one of the first offered up as trade-bait.

Despite what the article says, I again say Meech only needs to crack top-seven. If the Wings sign a UFA, then they have their current top four, plus Ericsson, Kindl, Meech, and UFA-guy. You can assume the UFA is at least going to be good enough to be top-six, otherwise there's no reason to sign him, right? So Ericsson, Kindl, and Meech are competing for the last two spots. And even in that situation, as I said before, Meech would basically have to play his way out of the top seven top be traded, rather than secure a spot in it, because it doesn't make sense for the Wings to keep Ericsson and Kindl rotating in the #6 spot playing partial seasons and minimal minutes per game, when one could be traded to a team needing an NHL ready young d-man for picks/prospects and Meech could still serve as one of if not the best #7 defenseman in the NHL. Yes he's older and doesn't have the top-pair potential that Kindl has... but if Kindl can't make the top six either, he'll get MUCH more than Meech in a trade just from his youth and potential, even if Meech is playing better.

[HankthaTank 1,100]

Another discount. He brings a little more depth than is given credit for but a healthy scratch at 500k. W/E

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Despite what the article says, I again say Meech only needs to crack top-seven. If the Wings sign a UFA, then they have their current top four, plus Ericsson, Kindl, Meech, and UFA-guy. You can assume the UFA is at least going to be good enough to be top-six, otherwise there's no reason to sign him, right? So Ericsson, Kindl, and Meech are competing for the last two spots. And even in that situation, as I said before, Meech would basically have to play his way out of the top seven top be traded, rather than secure a spot in it, because it doesn't make sense for the Wings to keep Ericsson and Kindl rotating in the #6 spot playing partial seasons and minimal minutes per game, when one could be traded to a team needing an NHL ready young d-man for picks/prospects and Meech could still serve as one of if not the best #7 defenseman in the NHL. Yes he's older and doesn't have the top-pair potential that Kindl has... but if Kindl can't make the top six either, he'll get MUCH more than Meech in a trade just from his youth and potential, even if Meech is playing better.

We can speculate all we want, but I could post reason after reason as to why Kenny would try to hang onto both E and Kindl given a veteran 5/6th Dman is brought in. It's just as likely that Kindl's potential isn't something Kenny and Co. want to move at this point. While not ideal, Babs could run a revolving door on the 5-6 pairing amongst those three (E, Kindl, Veteran UFA) to help get Kindl acclimated and keep the team competitive. Besides, having a light work-load next year isn't exactly going to kill E or Kindl. Meech doesn't have the upside Kindl does and both Lidstrom and Rafalski are nearing the ends of their careers, which makes retaining someone as young and with more potential than Meech necessary. Meech's contract is more attractive to teams fighting the salary cap next season and there's less risk given the one-year deal. Shall I continue?

The list goes on and on, and its not as simple as just, Kindl will get "MUCH" more in a trade. The Wings brass may not be looking for getting the most out of a trade, rather hanging onto what they consider potential pieces of the puzzle for the future. Meech likely isn't one of them. E more likely, and Kindl even moreso, are.

[HankthaTank 1,100]

A++ post above.

[55fan 5,133]

Lidstrom/Raffy

Junior/Stuie

Lilja (or other UFA)/ ?

?

?=Ericsson, Meech, or Kindl

If no Lilja (or other UFA), then Meech fits. If we have Lilja (or other UFA), then one of the three ? boys goes. It's going to be a tough call.

Ericsson has great potential, but faltered a bit with growing pains last year. Kindl has great potential that we haven't seen yet.

Meech is versatile, and has served us well in that capacity. I would like to see what Ericsson can do as a spare part forward before I let go of Meech completely. If Ericsson (who started out as a forward) can play the position at the NHL level and improve his defensive game, then I would have no qualms about saying bye-bye to Meech.

If Meech leaves the Wings, I'm sure he will do well elsewhere. He's not the worst d-man in the world. He's just not a show-stopper.

[eva unit zero 271]

We can speculate all we want, but I could post reason after reason as to why Kenny would try to hang onto both E and Kindl given a veteran 5/6th Dman is brought in. It's just as likely that Kindl's potential isn't something Kenny and Co. want to move at this point. While not ideal, Babs could run a revolving door on the 5-6 pairing amongst those three (E, Kindl, Veteran UFA) to help get Kindl acclimated and keep the team competitive. Besides, having a light work-load next year isn't exactly going to kill E or Kindl. Meech doesn't have the upside Kindl does and both Lidstrom and Rafalski are nearing the ends of their careers, which makes retaining someone as young and with more potential than Meech necessary. Meech's contract is more attractive to teams fighting the salary cap next season and there's less risk given the one-year deal. Shall I continue?

The list goes on and on, and its not as simple as just, Kindl will get "MUCH" more in a trade. The Wings brass may not be looking for getting the most out of a trade, rather hanging onto what they consider potential pieces of the puzzle for the future. Meech likely isn't one of them. E more likely, and Kindl even moreso, are.

Rafalski was expected to retire at the end of this contract, and has even indirectly implied such. He wanted the NTC so he could be close to home most of the season. His deal expires in 2012. Lidstrom is on a year-to-year basis, and might be gone at any time. Stuart and Kronwall are UFA in 2012 also, and Ericsson and Meech are UFA after this season.

Kindl likely won't be traded. But Ericsson has no better potential than Meech, is not as good defensively, is a much worse skater, and is the same age. His only advantage is his size, which he doesn't use. E is no more part of the future than Meech is. Or rather, Meech is no less part of the future. With more offensively skilled, quick-skating guys like Kronwall, Kindl, and Smith in the system, Ericsson needs to round out his game and provide something, other than a hard shot and decent puck skills, that will get him ice time if he wants to be in Detroit for much longer. If he can't develop a solid physical presence he'll be out of town before Nick is.

[Jesusberg 1,256]

And even in that situation, as I said before, Meech would basically have to play his way out of the top seven top be traded, rather than secure a spot in it, because it doesn't make sense for the Wings to keep Ericsson and Kindl rotating in the #6 spot playing partial seasons and minimal minutes per game, when one could be traded to a team needing an NHL ready young d-man for picks/prospects and Meech could still serve as one of if not the best #7 defenseman in the NHL.

I agree with the idea behind this, but I think Detroit likes the upside of Kindl and Ericsson too much to move them out. When Lidstrom is gone they're going to have to fill the void somehow and Derek Meech isn't the answer. If Lidstrom had a good 4-5 years left in him, no problem, but Kindl had/has high-end offensive skills on the blueline. Before Ericsson lost his confidence he showed some skill with the puck too.

I'm not saying either guy can replace Lidstrom, as I think Smith will be the closest thing we have in the system, but I also don't think the Red Wings are willing to give up on either player just yet.

EDIT: If they don't sign any UFA's at all, then I wouldn't be 100% opposed to using Ericsson and Kindl in the Top 6, and switching Meech in sometimes too. The kids have to learn sometime.

Edited July 15, 2010 by Jesusberg

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Rafalski was expected to retire at the end of this contract, and has even indirectly implied such. He wanted the NTC so he could be close to home most of the season. His deal expires in 2012. Lidstrom is on a year-to-year basis, and might be gone at any time. Stuart and Kronwall are UFA in 2012 also, and Ericsson and Meech are UFA after this season.

Kindl likely won't be traded. But Ericsson has no better potential than Meech, is not as good defensively, is a much worse skater, and is the same age. His only advantage is his size, which he doesn't use. E is no more part of the future than Meech is. Or rather, Meech is no less part of the future. With more offensively skilled, quick-skating guys like Kronwall, Kindl, and Smith in the system, Ericsson needs to round out his game and provide something, other than a hard shot and decent puck skills, that will get him ice time if he wants to be in Detroit for much longer. If he can't develop a solid physical presence he'll be out of town before Nick is.

Well, which one is it Eva....Kindl or E? You're first post talked about the how much Kindl could fetch, now your talking about E's number being up.

E had a rough season last year, no question about it, but that doesn't mean he's going to be garbage from here on out. You say yourself, E's shot and puck skills are there (which they are), his size is an attribute and as he continues to play he'll get more and more comfortable in the Wings' system. With his experiecne increasing he'll be more inclined to use his size and should be a tough guy to play against in front of his goaltender. But the bottom line is that his potential far exceeds that of Meech's.

No one's knocking Meech...he's a hell of a plug-in man both up front and on the backend, but that's all he'll ever be on the Wings. Both E and Kindl have the potential to be consistent contributors on the everyday roster.

[eva unit zero 271]

Well, which one is it Eva....Kindl or E? You're first post talked about the how much Kindl could fetch, now your talking about E's number being up.

E had a rough season last year, no question about it but that doesn't mean he's going to be garbage from here on out. You say yourself, E's shot and puck skills are there (which they are), his size is an attribute and as he continues to play he'll get more and more comfortable in the Wings' system. With his experiecne increasing he'll be more inclined to use his size and should be a tough guy to play against in front of his goaltender. But the bottom line is that his potential far exceeds that of Meech's.

No one's knocking Meech...he's a hell of a plug-in man both up front and on the backend, but that's all he'll ever be on the Wings. Both E and Kindl have the potential to be consistent contributors on the everyday roster.

This season is Kindl's last chance to make the roster. Ultimately if he has difficulty making the top 7, UFA or no, I think he will be traded. Much like Howard vs. Cloutier last year. If Howard couldn't show he was at least competetive with Cloutier, he would have been sent packing.

[newfy 695]

I really doubt they keep Meech

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

This season is Kindl's last chance to make the roster. Ultimately if he has difficulty making the top 7, UFA or no, I think he will be traded. Much like Howard vs. Cloutier last year. If Howard couldn't show he was at least competetive with Cloutier, he would have been sent packing.

It's not as if Kindl was playing himself off the roster. While he may not have done enough to get a spot full-time, the Wings were in no hurry to bring him up given the way they let their kids develop. Either way, you're contradicting yourself once again. A couple posts ago, you talk about how Kindl could fetch "MUCH" more in return than Meech and now you make it out as though he's can't hack it and he's on his last chance.

The bottom line is that he's not. Kindl's locked up for the next 3 seasons for a light cap hit and then he'll still be an RFA. At the very worst, Kindl will take over Meech's job as the 7th Dman but the potential is there for him to be more than Meech will likely ever be.