kook_10 1,705 Report post Posted November 25, 2010 There is a chance he will shape up and have value, so there is no need to dump him when his value is at an all time low. The point is waiting until the deadline gives him time to shape up at least a little, and that makes more sense than dumping him 20 games into the season. I'm not looking to dump him at all. He has every reason in the world to improve and the ability to do so. I just don't think many teams would be willing to pick up his contract -cap space or no- if he didn't improve. The Wings also have a greater ability to wait for him to improve because they have 4 good lines and can sit him if need be. Of course having $3m sit in the press box is not a good thing, but doing that and having one of the best records in the league lessens the sting. Certainly if we had no obligation to him and $3M to spend he wouldn't be the first choice, but if we had to trade we'd only get either an equivalent $3m dog in return, or role players (which we have an excess of) or later draft picks. If he sticks it out with the Wings and even partially rebounds it will be a net gain, and the team will be in a good position to resign him at a relative bargain. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wingzman91 134 Report post Posted November 25, 2010 Hudler just looks like he is out of shape, I'd bet money that he will pour it on late season/playoffs, when he starts to get back into NHL condition. Lets all breathe, while I agree, that he needs to get going for what he is getting paid, I also see the team is doing great this year and if we can afford to coddle our floundering players, we should. Moving a player for what ever you can get is a desperation move, anyone feel desperate? Hudler's also dealing with a Modono that doesn't seem to have his heart into this experience. I don't think it has hit him yet that he doesn't have to do it all when he is on the ice, he goes hard for a few seconds and then is a liability until he gets off the ice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shady Ultima 40 Report post Posted November 25, 2010 The Fedorov comaprison? He turned down a contract from Ilitch, then later when he was offered a lessor one, he left for Anaheim. Then in 2008 when Fedorov wanted to come back via the trade deadline and even though some folks in the organization wanted him back, someone in the higer ups (possibly Ilitch) told Holland NO. Thats the only comparison. You don't spite the owner. Especially an owner with the power of Mr. Ilitch. Although, I've never heard that Feds wanted to come back, officially, you don't think the salary cap had anything to do with Federov not coming back here? And Feds spurned Illitch a LOT more than Hudler did. As much as I don't like Hudler, if he hadn't left last year, we'd have had a bad salary crunch. We're lucky he left for the year, because we managed to fill our team up with Bert and Eaves, and later on Miller (not including Williams, cause he sucked). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rivalred 630 Report post Posted November 25, 2010 This just in, Babcock scratched Hudler for Thanksgiving Dinner @ Drapes house, reasoning was "lack of effort and concentration" as in holidays past his attempts to connect the fork-to-mouth totally missed and Kris's 8 yr old kid muscled Jiri off the side dishes and pumpkin pie. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newfy 695 Report post Posted November 25, 2010 I don't understand all the picking on Hudler when Flippula is on pace for a 38 point season and has yet to have a break out season everyone here has been predicting for years on end. Ya he gets hot, but when hes cold, hes freezing. Yeah because Hudler offers the forechecking, very solid defensive play, penalty killing ability and versatility that Filpulla offers to go along with his lower point total. I'm not looking to dump him at all. He has every reason in the world to improve and the ability to do so. I just don't think many teams would be willing to pick up his contract -cap space or no- if he didn't improve. The Wings also have a greater ability to wait for him to improve because they have 4 good lines and can sit him if need be. Of course having $3m sit in the press box is not a good thing, but doing that and having one of the best records in the league lessens the sting. Certainly if we had no obligation to him and $3M to spend he wouldn't be the first choice, but if we had to trade we'd only get either an equivalent $3m dog in return, or role players (which we have an excess of) or later draft picks. If he sticks it out with the Wings and even partially rebounds it will be a net gain, and the team will be in a good position to resign him at a relative bargain. This team is built to win now. We dont have time to wait for guys to shape up. We could get a solid prospect for him instead of sitting around on his cap hit waiting for him to improve, just imrpove a cheap prospect. He has never been liked by Babcock even when he was putting up 60 points, you think Babcock is gonna let him stick around much longer if hes not putting up points? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shaman 713 Report post Posted November 25, 2010 (edited) Yeah because Hudler offers the forechecking, very solid defensive play, penalty killing ability and versatility that Filpulla offers to go along with his lower point total. This team is built to win now. We dont have time to wait for guys to shape up. We could get a solid prospect for him instead of sitting around on his cap hit waiting for him to improve, just imrpove a cheap prospect. He has never been liked by Babcock even when he was putting up 60 points, you think Babcock is gonna let him stick around much longer if hes not putting up points? Because I was talking about anything but points Newfy you really never say anything intelligent. My point is a second liner should be putting up more than .4 points per game. Filpulla is an exceptional third line center, but a poor second liner center. Lack of scoring depth will kill the wings come playoff time if Flip and Huds don't turn it on. Edited November 25, 2010 by Shaman464 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrisdetroit 189 Report post Posted November 25, 2010 See: Leino, Kuznetsov, Fleishman, Ritola, Mattias. Ya, they don't give up on players. Bottom line, you don't produce and/or you can get us something better (Fleishman, Kuznetsov, Mattias) or cap relief (Leino, Ritola), you are out(Hudler.) Not a valid comparison. NONE of those guys that you mentioned had any sucess in the NHL. Hudler had a very sucessful season in the NHL (57 points in 82 games) and in the playoffs when he helped us win the Cup in 08. He had 12 points in 23 playoff games in '08. Hudler isn't going anywhere. If there are no injuries, he will rotate in and out of the line up all year. If he doesn't improve, he will sit most nights. I don't see the Wings givingup on a proven performer after 15 games. Hudler just looks really really slow and mentally retarded out there. He has zero defensive skills, gets knocked off the Puck all the time, and can't win battles on the boards. He is weak. His saving grace is/was the fact that he could score and create plays. He isn't doing that so far this year. Nice. Does your mom know that you are using the compuer? 1 PavelValerievichDatsyuk reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kook_10 1,705 Report post Posted November 25, 2010 Yeah because Hudler offers the forechecking, very solid defensive play, penalty killing ability and versatility that Filpulla offers to go along with his lower point total. This team is built to win now. We dont have time to wait for guys to shape up. We could get a solid prospect for him instead of sitting around on his cap hit waiting for him to improve, just imrpove a cheap prospect. He has never been liked by Babcock even when he was putting up 60 points, you think Babcock is gonna let him stick around much longer if hes not putting up points? No, but its not up to Babs. Kenny won't dish him for only a prospect, they're not gonna get $3m worth of points for him, and another 4th liner would be as useless as **** on a bull. A couple prospects or a propect and a decent pick maybe. I can't see teams lining up for a deal like that though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest mjtm77 Report post Posted November 25, 2010 Not a valid comparison. NONE of those guys that you mentioned had any sucess in the NHL. Hudler had a very sucessful season in the NHL (57 points in 82 games) and in the playoffs when he helped us win the Cup in 08. He had 12 points in 23 playoff games in '08. Hudler isn't going anywhere. If there are no injuries, he will rotate in and out of the line up all year. If he doesn't improve, he will sit most nights. I don't see the Wings givingup on a proven performer after 15 games. Nice. Does your mom know that you are using the compuer? Really? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MulesWillFly93 199 Report post Posted November 25, 2010 Eh, I think he's going to stick around for a while. I'm pretty pissed at him, but I agree that he's out of shape and will in all probability get stronger toward the end of the season, so at least there's a little hope. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shaman 713 Report post Posted November 25, 2010 Really? Way to form a constructive post. But comparing hudler to someone with mental problems is wrong and childish. I would back up his question. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted November 25, 2010 Listen, before Hudler left for Russia, he was offered a $3.5M contract in which he turned own and went to arbitration. He ran to Russia for more money and was awarded a lessor contract with the Wings than he was offered before arbitration. Now he runs back crying and doesn't produce, he will now be gone, because Mike Ilitch has the control, NOT the player. The Fedorov comaprison? He turned down a contract from Ilitch, then later when he was offered a lessor one, he left for Anaheim. Then in 2008 when Fedorov wanted to come back via the trade deadline and even though some folks in the organization wanted him back, someone in the higer ups (possibly Ilitch) told Holland NO. Thats the only comparison. You don't spite the owner. Especially an owner with the power of Mr. Ilitch. That being explained, have a great career Hudler, hope Russia was worth it! Trade him to the Island for a 2nd rouder, which will end up a pick in the 30's... What gives you the impression some team would trade a second round pick for Hudler especially at this time? Brad Stuart went for a third and he's infinitely more valuable than Hudler. Yeah because Hudler offers the forechecking, very solid defensive play, penalty killing ability and versatility that Filpulla offers to go along with his lower point total. This team is built to win now. We dont have time to wait for guys to shape up. We could get a solid prospect for him instead of sitting around on his cap hit waiting for him to improve, just imrpove a cheap prospect. He has never been liked by Babcock even when he was putting up 60 points, you think Babcock is gonna let him stick around much longer if hes not putting up points? Same story, different season from Filppula. He's the reason Datsyuk and Zetterberg are going to get split up if he continues not to produce offensively as the second line center. 1 Shaman reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doc Holliday 1,888 Report post Posted November 26, 2010 This team is built to win now. The team is winning, now. We dont have time to wait for guys to shape up. Yes we do. We could get a solid prospect for him instead of sitting around on his cap hit waiting for him to improve, just imrpove a cheap prospect. Holland doesn't rush his prospects. There is no need to bring someone up if we don't have to. Right now, a prospect isn't going to do much more than Hudler (if at all) and rushing him into the NHL could hurt his long term development as a player. Also I don't know what "solid" prospect Holland is going to get out of a player who isn't producing period. He has never been liked by Babcock even when he was putting up 60 points, you think Babcock is gonna let him stick around much longer if hes not putting up points? Where has Babcock stated he doesn't like Hudler? He spoke pretty highly of him before the season started. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
truebladearmy 33 Report post Posted November 26, 2010 Nice. Does your mom know that you are using the compuer? If you had a valid point, it went out the window. Besides, it's "computer". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Konnan511 1,736 Report post Posted November 26, 2010 (edited) Hudelr sucks. If he doesn't shape up in the next half dozen games, trade him. By the all-star game he'll have ZERO trade value at the pace he's going. Edited November 26, 2010 by Konnan511 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
uk_redwing 495 Report post Posted November 26, 2010 (edited) Nice. Does your mom know that you are using the compuer? I return to the general discussion forums for 3 minutes and I've already seen enough to leave. Edit: What the f*** is a compuer anyway? Edited November 26, 2010 by uk_redwing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shaman 713 Report post Posted November 26, 2010 I return to the general discussion forums for 3 minutes and I've already seen enough to leave. Edit: What the f*** is a compuer anyway? Next generation stuff, but you have to live in the world of super secret high tech military hardware to understand :ph34r: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Konnan511 1,736 Report post Posted November 26, 2010 I return to the general discussion forums for 3 minutes and I've already seen enough to leave. Edit: What the f*** is a compuer anyway? My keys don't always register on my wireless keyboard with how fast I type. I'm guessing the same? You can really only make fun of someones sleeping if it involves there. their, they're and to, too, two and your, you're. Other than that it was probably a keystroke error, not a grammar error. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pockets 9 Report post Posted November 26, 2010 I wonder what it's like in the locker room considering Hudler just up and left for more money last year, maybe that's one reason he hasn't clicked with anyone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest mindfly Report post Posted November 26, 2010 (edited) Hudler just looks like he is out of shape, I'd bet money that he will pour it on late season/playoffs, when he starts to get back into NHL condition. Lets all breathe, while I agree, that he needs to get going for what he is getting paid, I also see the team is doing great this year and if we can afford to coddle our floundering players, we should. Moving a player for what ever you can get is a desperation move, anyone feel desperate? Hudler's also dealing with a Modono that doesn't seem to have his heart into this experience. I don't think it has hit him yet that he doesn't have to do it all when he is on the ice, he goes hard for a few seconds and then is a liability until he gets off the ice. Truth with modification so to speak, the wings are 4-3 on the road, the only solid road games i remember were calgary and edmonton, they got blown away at vancouver and at atlanta, when i see this team rolling on the road as well I will agree, it's still too early to tell, it's a totally different game home versus the road in the nhl especially for the wings Edited November 26, 2010 by mindfly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcom007 1,465 Report post Posted November 26, 2010 I don't understand all the picking on Hudler when Flippula is on pace for a 38 point season and has yet to have a break out season everyone here has been predicting for years on end. Ya he gets hot, but when hes cold, hes freezing. I've always been verbally skeptical of Flips offensive abilities or lack thereof, but at least when he's not scoring he still contributes to the team in our end. I think he's overpaid in Detroit and overrated offensively and I doubt he'll ever truly hit the numbers people expect of him (40-50 peak), but he's a responsible player who can handle a fair amount of minutes. If he gets signed again by the Wings at $3 million, I'll be quite livid. That is, unless he actually is able to come out and have a huge offensive output increase (especially goals) that he keeps up with some consistency. And either way, I still think we should've traded him for picks and signed Hossa long-term at around $5 million a season. But again, at least he still contributes to the team in some way when he's out there. To be blunt, when Hudler's not scoring, he's pretty much worthless. That's the big difference here. Again, I'd much rather have seen Huds walk and Flip traded for picks to sign Hossa long-term at $5 million, but oh well...what's done is done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest mindfly Report post Posted November 26, 2010 I've always been verbally skeptical of Flips offensive abilities or lack thereof, but at least when he's not scoring he still contributes to the team in our end. I think he's overpaid in Detroit and overrated offensively and I doubt he'll ever truly hit the numbers people expect of him (40-50 peak), but he's a responsible player who can handle a fair amount of minutes. If he gets signed again by the Wings at $3 million, I'll be quite livid. That is, unless he actually is able to come out and have a huge offensive output increase (especially goals) that he keeps up with some consistency. And either way, I still think we should've traded him for picks and signed Hossa long-term at around $5 million a season. But again, at least he still contributes to the team in some way when he's out there. To be blunt, when Hudler's not scoring, he's pretty much worthless. That's the big difference here. Again, I'd much rather have seen Huds walk and Flip traded for picks to sign Hossa long-term at $5 million, but oh well...what's done is done. No doubt, in hindsight, that would have been the best for the team, hossa is still one of the best wingers in the game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcom007 1,465 Report post Posted November 26, 2010 No doubt, in hindsight, that would have been the best for the team, hossa is still one of the best wingers in the game. Hindsight? He was one of the best wingers in the game. He's a complete player with more hustle than the majority of guys in the league, despite bona fide star status. He's willing to take an incredibly reasonable amount of money on the cap hit to sign long term and you don't want to let two mid-level guys who have been nothing but inconsistent from the start go to sign him??? It was an absolute no-brainer to me and it still bugs me to this day that they didn't have the spine to let a couple of our guys walk for a guy like Hossa who wanted to be here as much as anyone. Who cares where he developed!?! His worth proportional to the money he was aiming for trumps all. Hudler and Flip are/were overpaid for guys who were/are unproven as consistent players (relative to their idealized roles). Hossa was/is a superstar willing to take a significant pay cut to play here. I try not to question Holland and company as much as some, and generally I think he makes good decisions, but letting Hossa go to keep Flip and Huds in the fold still strikes me as one of his few more idiotic decisions. I get some of his controversial moves, even the ones I don't like. I still don't get or like the Hossa decision one bit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newfy 695 Report post Posted November 26, 2010 Because I was talking about anything but points Newfy you really never say anything intelligent. My point is a second liner should be putting up more than .4 points per game. Filpulla is an exceptional third line center, but a poor second liner center. Lack of scoring depth will kill the wings come playoff time if Flip and Huds don't turn it on. I never say anything intelligent? Ok if youre so smart show me in your post where you said you were talking about points only? You said Flip is on pace for 38 points but no one is all over him. Well no one is all over him because he plays in all situations, is good defensively, and is quick. But thanks for the lesson there shaman and sharing that wisdom of yours which you have generously bestowed on all of us here at LGW No, but its not up to Babs. Kenny won't dish him for only a prospect, they're not gonna get $3m worth of points for him, and another 4th liner would be as useless as **** on a bull. A couple prospects or a propect and a decent pick maybe. I can't see teams lining up for a deal like that though. You dont think Babcock has a lot of say on who he wants on this team? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Booster313 138 Report post Posted November 26, 2010 Do you think we could move Hudler and Kindle or Big E and pick up Kaberle? I know it wouldn't quite work out dollar wise but it would make out defense killer and if Lidstrom decides to retire we have an inside track on a fix or sorts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites