gritty players I would like the wings to sign

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

I have to give you a hard time.. it's mandatory..

I would have renamed the topic "mean fighters I would like the Wings to sign", since there's no mention of grit at all, and only one mention of scoring.

The guys I consider "gritty" would be like Ryan Kesler, Scott Hartnell, or Dave Bolland. Unfortunately, I'm sure at least two of those aren't available come summer.

If Vancouver loses game 2, all Nucks fans will want Kesler on the trade block

Edited May 17, 2011 by Bring Back The Bruise Bros

[ben_usmc 253]

Cody M and Eriskine please! I don't see the Avs getting ready of Cody M (of course they do suck so...)

[jollymania 162]

Some good picks for forwards, but none of those dmen would work for the wings

[Andy Pred 48 337]

Zack Stortini anyone?

[Majsheppard 203]

Unless they help the team in ability to play as well, I don't want them.

I think Shane O'Brien would help. The rest of the names seem like a waste of precious cap space.

I like Carcillo, but not enough to justify a trade, unless we were just dumping garbage of course.

Honestly I think it is scoring that we need more than anything. We need a goal scorer, and trade is the only way to get that unless we go after Richards. Grit is lacking, but I cannot justify a roster spot for any of these guys over what we already have.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

In addition, isn't he decent in the faceoff circle?

He is 56% at even strength and 39% on the PK this playoff. Probably because he has had to go up against Pittsburgh and Washington's best faceoff men when shorthanded.

He is 56% at even strength and 47% on the PK in the regular season.

His shorthanded faceoff work leaves a lot to be desired, considering everyone on the Wings in the regular season except for Filppula had at least a 50% faceoff percentage on the PK. However his even strength percentage beats every single Wing.

Either way, the guy is a freaking energy ball. The one issue is what we do with the number of centers, because he has a similar skillset as Helm but not as fast. If the guy was a winger he would be a perfect fit on his line.

For me, it is not about getting an Aaron Downey/Brad May type of player just for a year or two. I think to be tougher and grittier as a team, you have to inject grit into all four lines in some capacity (possibly excluding the first line) and put skilled players in who have a bit of sandpaper in them. That makes it easier for the team to respond to some dickweed cheap shot artist (Cooke, Kaleta, Perry) after a play.

Edited May 17, 2011 by Doc Holliday

[Shaman 713]

I don't think the Wings' bottom 6 spots are in play, too many people already in them and more coming up. If the Wings get a forward it needs to be a 2nd line winger. If theres a guy with hands and an eye for the net that can also play gritty sure, I would be all for it, but a 4th liner isnt going to solve the wings issue of no real scoring depth.

Edited May 17, 2011 by Shaman464

[stillwater 186]

Cody M and Eriskine please! I don't see the Avs getting ready of Cody M (of course they do suck so...)

Erskine, as it was mentioned upthread, has two more years remaining on his Capital's contract.

Edited May 17, 2011 by stillwater

[newfy 695]

Nate Thompson?

He isn't a free agent, but from what I've seen the guy has a lot of fire in him and plenty of grit to help the Wings.

I honestly may not know what I'm talking about but I would love to see him and his sandpaper on the team.

Ive wanted Thompson on the wings for a while now. He is exactly what the wings need to find instead of Drew Millers who provide nothing and skilled guys like Hudler who dont produce. When I say I want a tough guy hes the type of player I want, not the big useless guys. Hes also young and can be around for a while instead of signing an old washed up guy who sucks at the end of his career.

[LeftWinger 4,950]

I like Carcillo, but not enough to justify a trade, unless we were just dumping garbage of course.

Hudler......

I have been mentioning Wisniewski for a few months now, and even though rumor says Montreal wants to negotiate with him, I will still want him here until he isn't available anymore! If he is gonna $4m, the Hoilland, make it so! With the Cap scheduled to increase and trading Hudler away along with giving some modest raises, $4M should be easy to take on...

[stallion 17]

Detroit should definitely try throwing some of their garbage (Hudler) at Philadelphia as it worked out quite well for them in the past (Leino). If we could get a Hartnell for Happy I'd be...well...happy!

[uk_redwing 495]

Enforcer debate here we come.

If people don't like enforcers, they should stay out of this thread. This is a thread where people who like tough style hockey can discuss realistic options the Wings have.

Konopka would be an ideal 13th forward for the team, especially with his faceoff skills. Would come in very handy on the 4th line especially if Draper doesn't come back. However I don't think there will be much change on the 4th line with Mursak ready for next season. Only one depth signing at most maybe. Lets hope its along those lines.

Any extra grit for next season will probably come from the defensive zone. James Wisniewski would be ideal, or Shane O'Brien. We need someone to clear the front of the net and punish opposition forwards.

[pucktividi 472]

Bryan Boyle maybe...he's RFA

[Shaman 713]

If people don't like enforcers, they should stay out of this thread. This is a thread where people who like tough style hockey can discuss realistic options the Wings have.

Konopka would be an ideal 13th forward for the team, especially with his faceoff skills. Would come in very handy on the 4th line especially if Draper doesn't come back. However I don't think there will be much change on the 4th line with Mursak ready for next season. Only one depth signing at most maybe. Lets hope its along those lines.

Any extra grit for next season will probably come from the defensive zone. James Wisniewski would be ideal, or Shane O'Brien. We need someone to clear the front of the net and punish opposition forwards.

I think that since this is a free forum for all to post their opinions as they please that people who think adding a goon like Konopka (who has 22 points in 195 games) would not help the wings can have their say.

My opinion is that a multifaceted player that adds more than grit(IE fighting) would be the best option.

Edited May 18, 2011 by Shaman464

[newfy 695]

I think that since this is a free forum for all to post their opinions as they please that people who think adding a goon like Konopka (who has 22 points in 195 games) would not help the wings can have their say.

My opinion is that a multifaceted player that adds more than grit(IE fighting) would be the best option.

Oh so you mean a guy with good leadership, the ability to fight, PK a bit and is the best faceoff man in the league would be a good option as a cheap 13th forward since he is multi faceted?

How is Miller exactly multi faceted? He can PK, what else can he do? He cant hit hard, he doesnt put up a tonne of points, he doesnt fight etc

[Shaman 713]

Oh so you mean a guy with good leadership, the ability to fight, PK a bit and is the best faceoff man in the league would be a good option as a cheap 13th forward since he is multi faceted?

How is Miller exactly multi faceted? He can PK, what else can he do? He cant hit hard, he doesnt put up a tonne of points, he doesnt fight etc

Well Drew Miller put up almost as many points in 66 as Konopka has in 195, so I would say that right there would put him as more valuable, he kills PKs, he goes to the dirty areas, and best yet, he doesn't average over 3.5 (per ten mins of ice time) minutes in the penalty box per game. Konopka isn't particularly defensively sound (not compared to your average Detroit center), at least not from what I have seen from his stats and the games Ive seen him in.

If you think a guy who spends over 1/3 of his ice time per game in the box is a good addition to a team thats your right, I personally think its a poor idea. As I keep saying if we can get a player that can add grit and actual scoring talent to our team I would be in favor, but no warm bodies who are only on a team because they can fight.

The best option for any grit would come on the blue line as a 6th/7th defenseman, with the high number of offensively sound D men Detroit has adding some girt on the back end wouldn't hurt.

Edited May 18, 2011 by Shaman464

[WorkingOvertime 536]

Well Drew Miller put up almost as many points in 66 as Konopka has in 195, so I would say that right there would put him as more valuable, he kills PKs, he goes to the dirty areas, and best yet, he doesn't average over 3.5 (per ten mins of ice time) minutes in the penalty box per game. Konopka isn't particularly defensively sound (not compared to your average Detroit center), at least not from what I have seen from his stats and the games Ive seen him in.

If you think a guy who spends over 1/3 of his ice time per game in the box is a good addition to a team thats your right, I personally think its a poor idea. As I keep saying if we can get a player that can add grit and actual scoring talent to our team I would be in favor, but no warm bodies who are only on a team because they can fight.

The best option for any grit would come on the blue line as a 6th/7th defenseman, with the high number of offensively sound D men Detroit has adding some girt on the back end wouldn't hurt.

Why is arguing Konopka's PIMs a relevant point? Konopka spent 3.5 (per ten mins of ice time) defending his teammates, something Miller did not do this season. Since most of his PIMs are from fighting (or 10 min misconducts from the refs 'settling the game down'), I can't agree with your negative spin on the stat.

The player you want won't exist on the Wings. There are only a few scorers who will fight (Lucic, Clowe, Stewart), and they come at a price premium. Also, these players would be encouraged by the Wings not to fight since they would be key offensive figures. If you think Konopka is bad in the box, try having one of your second liner's in the box that much. The argument for a skilled fighter contradicts your first point of too many PIMS because of the necessity of PIMs to fighting.

Konopka got 9 points this year playing with Trevor Gillies and Michael Haley (or Matt Martin). Think for a minute about those players and compare them to Helm and Eaves. Then think more about the significant amount of offense Miller adds above Konopka- it's not nearly as much as you think.

[Shaman 713]

Why is arguing Konopka's PIMs a relevant point? Konopka spent 3.5 (per ten mins of ice time) defending his teammates, something Miller did not do this season. Since most of his PIMs are from fighting (or 10 min misconducts from the refs 'settling the game down'), I can't agree with your negative spin on the stat.

The player you want won't exist on the Wings. There are only a few scorers who will fight (Lucic, Clowe, Stewart), and they come at a price premium. Also, these players would be encouraged by the Wings not to fight since they would be key offensive figures. If you think Konopka is bad in the box, try having one of your second liner's in the box that much. The argument for a skilled fighter contradicts your first point of too many PIMS because of the necessity of PIMs to fighting.

Konopka got 9 points this year playing with Trevor Gillies and Michael Haley (or Matt Martin). Think for a minute about those players and compare them to Helm and Eaves. Then think more about the significant amount of offense Miller adds above Konopka- it's not nearly as much as you think.

Defending teammates? really? I would argue most of is box time was from trying to prove that his job is worth a line up spot. I don't blame him, but I watched the Islanders and the Lightning over the last couple years (not extensively but enough to be familiar with them) and its not like ever other game someone was taking a blatant run at their skilled players. It happens, thats true, but I can count on one hand how many times I've seen a real run taken on a player in the last couple years when watching the wings. Sure there is scrums and extra given after whistles, but, it seems we give it as good as we take it for the most part. Adding a 4th liner that only brings fighting ability to the team won't happen, the Wings philosophy is to role four lines and how deep the wings already are at 13th forward .

Again if you want a player who can fight, the 6th/7th Dman will be where that spot will be filled on the wings.

[WorkingOvertime 536]

Defending teammates? really? I would argue most of is box time was from trying to prove that his job is worth a line up spot. I don't blame him, but I watched the Islanders and the Lightning over the last couple years (not extensively but enough to be familiar with them) and its not like ever other game someone was taking a blatant run at their skilled players. It happens, thats true, but I can count on one hand how many times I've seen a real run taken on a player in the last couple years when watching the wings. Sure there is scrums and extra given after whistles, but, it seems we give it as good as we take it for the most part. Adding a 4th liner that only brings fighting ability to the team won't happen, the Wings philosophy is to role four lines and how deep the wings already are at 13th forward .

Again if you want a player who can fight, the 6th/7th Dman will be where that spot will be filled on the wings.

Last year Konopka was not fighting to keep a roster spot. Gillies was below him on the depth chart and still played almost every game he wasn't suspended.

The Isles sure thought they were getting pushed around because they said the game against the Penguins was a response to the Isles having their younger players ran by multiple teams (with Pitt being the worst offender). I'll take their word for it.

Your post doesn't address the point I made of Konopka's playing ability. I have no doubt he could produce at least 75% of Miller's points while also providing an intangible element the Wings lack. If you take away Miller's points while not on the fourth line, Konopka could likely match him.

Konopka is the type of enforcer that the Wings could play 82 games a year. With the current depth it probably won't happen, but that excuse is around every year with the Wings development system. Personally, I think we're (unfortunately) more likely to see McGrattan signed and play 30 games than Konopka.

[Shaman 713]

Last year Konopka was not fighting to keep a roster spot. Gillies was below him on the depth chart and still played almost every game he wasn't suspended.

The Isles sure thought they were getting pushed around because they said the game against the Penguins was a response to the Isles having their younger players ran by multiple teams (with Pitt being the worst offender). I'll take their word for it.

Your post doesn't address the point I made of Konopka's playing ability. I have no doubt he could produce at least 75% of Miller's points while also providing an intangible element the Wings lack. If you take away Miller's points while not on the fourth line, Konopka could likely match him.

Konopka is the type of enforcer that the Wings could play 82 games a year. With the current depth it probably won't happen, but that excuse is around every year with the Wings development system. Personally, I think we're (unfortunately) more likely to see McGrattan signed and play 30 games than Konopka.

There is no evidence of any of this, hes played nearly 200 games, if he had any scoring touch it would have manifested by now. What intangibles does he bring? He only has one skill that no wing is willing to use and thats the want to fight, and thats not a needed skill set in the 2011 NHL. Beyond that with Emmerton coming up and the wings already being deep at bottom 6 forward I just don't see where he fits, he doesn't realistically play 10 minutes a game because he sits almost half that in the box, and with Miller being a 13th forward I don't see who besides Miller you would take out to put this guy in so he can play 82 games.

[WorkingOvertime 536]

There is no evidence of any of this, hes played nearly 200 games, if he had any scoring touch it would have manifested by now. What intangibles does he bring? He only has one skill that no wing is willing to use and thats the want to fight, and thats not a needed skill set in the 2011 NHL. Beyond that with Emmerton coming up and the wings already being deep at bottom 6 forward I just don't see where he fits, he doesn't realistically play 10 minutes a game because he sits almost half that in the box, and with Miller being a 13th forward I don't see who besides Miller you would take out to put this guy in so he can play 82 games.

There is actually plenty of evidence of Konopka's offensive skill. In the AHL he averaged ~.80 ppg, and he was a 1+ ppg player in the OHL his last season. While that doesn't always translate to the NHL, he certainly has the ability even when averaging 150+ PIMs a year. Further, as I stated earlier in the thread, he has been playing with Gillies and Haley (or Martin). None of those three players have the same skill as Helm, Mursak, or Eaves. He also averaged 10:11 toi this year, despite being on the aforementioned line. FYI the toi does not include time spent in the box (to my knowledge).

I can certainly respect your belief that fighters are no longer needed in the NHL, but 20+ NHL GM's disagree with you. What is wrong with a bottom 3 of Konopka-Helm-Mursak with Emmerton and Miller as the extra forwards? IMO two of Eaves, Miller, and Draper will likely be gone. IMO Emmerton will be another Ritola and might not be on the Wings next season.

[Shaman 713]

There is actually plenty of evidence of Konopka's offensive skill. In the AHL he averaged ~.80 ppg, and he was a 1+ ppg player in the OHL his last season. While that doesn't always translate to the NHL, he certainly has the ability even when averaging 150+ PIMs a year. Further, as I stated earlier in the thread, he has been playing with Gillies and Haley (or Martin). None of those three players have the same skill as Helm, Mursak, or Eaves. He also averaged 10:11 toi this year, despite being on the aforementioned line. FYI the toi does not include time spent in the box (to my knowledge).

I can certainly respect your belief that fighters are no longer needed in the NHL, but 20+ NHL GM's disagree with you. What is wrong with a bottom 3 of Konopka-Helm-Mursak with Emmerton and Miller as the extra forwards? IMO two of Eaves, Miller, and Draper will likely be gone. IMO Emmerton will be another Ritola and might not be on the Wings next season.

20+ GMs have different team philosophies compared to Detroit which values skill and speed in all four lines, it seems Holland agrees with my view because he doesn't seem to be going out of his way to pick up an enforcer. Now again if its a guy who is willing to defend himself and fight thats fine by me, but a goon on skates more and more are going the way of the Dodo, and I for one am happy about that. Grit doesn't win playoff games, look at the stats in the San Jose series, the wings out hit them every game I believe but because of them not scoring they lost. So if you want to see a fighter on skates beat the hell out of other people thats great, but if you expect the wings to carry one of them, I wouldn't hold my breath.

[WorkingOvertime 536]

20+ GMs have different team philosophies compared to Detroit which values skill and speed in all four lines, it seems Holland agrees with my view because he doesn't seem to be going out of his way to pick up an enforcer. Now again if its a guy who is willing to defend himself and fight thats fine by me, but a goon on skates more and more are going the way of the Dodo, and I for one am happy about that. Grit doesn't win playoff games, look at the stats in the San Jose series, the wings out hit them every game I believe but because of them not scoring they lost. So if you want to see a fighter on skates beat the hell out of other people thats great, but if you expect the wings to carry one of them, I wouldn't hold my breath.

You seem to be dodging your original argument that Konopka doesn't have the skill necessary to play on the Wings. My point is that Konopka is a good enough player to be on the Wings' fourth line and that he can also fight. Therefore, his isn't just a fighter on skates as you paint him to be.

Holland signed Downey and May. These players weren't better than the Wings' other choices and they surely aren't better than Konopka. For one they didn't have the offensive potential of Konopka (May did, but not while on the Wings), and Konopka is a great PK'r and faceoff man.

[Shaman 713]

You seem to be dodging your original argument that Konopka doesn't have the skill necessary to play on the Wings. My point is that Konopka is a good enough player to be on the Wings' fourth line and that he can also fight. Therefore, his isn't just a fighter on skates as you paint him to be.

Holland signed Downey and May. These players weren't better than the Wings' other choices and they surely aren't better than Konopka. For one they didn't have the offensive potential of Konopka (May did, but not while on the Wings), and Konopka is a great PK'r and faceoff man.

Hes not better than the following: Draper, Helm, Abdelkader, Eaves, Emmerton, Muršak, Hudler, (and if Zetterberg and Dats are separated) Filpulla or Cleary (if Holland addresses the need for a second line winger the wings need badly) and is in my mind a wash with Miller. All these players I mentioned are or could be the Wings bottom 6 next season, 8-9 players that are competing for 6 spots, and I do believe 4 of them play center. So again it doesn't just come down to is he better than Miller, its is he better than 4 of these players, and he is not. Honestly, ask yourself, if he didn't fight would you ever consider him for the wings? if the answer is no, than obviously this is about fighting, if its yes, well, good luck with NHL 11.

[Datsyerberger 279]

We don't want SOB. That guy takes way too many penalties for what he contributes. A bottom pair d-man just doesn't give enough value to the team for giving the opposition that many PPs in today's NHL.