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stevkrause

Aaron Rome

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It took me several views of the clip to really get a good handle on what happened, and I've got to admit I've switched sides because of it. First off, the 3 stride thing mentioned in the thread is wrong. Rome took 2 "steps" to come to a halt and then drove (kinda jumped) into Horton. No strides at all. Second, it's pretty borderline to call it a blindside hit. I understand "blindside" to mean something roughly perpendicular to the shoulders. Rome comes in at a 45. If Horton is looking forward instead of admiring his pass, he sees Rome coming. That's not blindside. The point of impact looks to be something close to shoulder-to-collarbone, so I'm not sure you can even say it's a blow to the head. Horton probably took more damage from bouncing the back of his head off the ice than the actual hit, but that's certainly conjecture.

The puck's long gone, so it's interference. We've seen 5 minute interference calls, and this one probably qualifies given the nastiness. So we've got that. The hit is undeniably illegal.

Add it all up and you've got an illegal hit (which negates any Chara comparisons), and you could spin a pretty good case for "intent to injure". Although it's not "right", you've got a scrub taking out a star, which will tip the scales some. I come up with 1 game, maybe 2 max. 4 games seems excessive to me.

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different league, different rules - learn to evolve and play within them, simple as that.

I beg to differ - with an exception on the rules.

Playoff hockey has always been fast paced - hard hitting - intense hockey...It's that way today as it was years ago.

This is/was my concern when the whole cracking down on head shots began; not that it doesn't have it's merits, but when a good number of impartial viewers such as myself see this as a clean hit (albeit a tad late - hence the intereference pen) yet an injury had occurred - there'll be the looming chance of a suspension.

Wasn't blindsided, wasn't from behind, no charging...If an injury hadn't taken place we wwouldn't be having this discussion...The league is suspending Rome more for the injury than the hit IMO.

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I beg to differ - with an exception on the rules.

Playoff hockey has always been fast paced - hard hitting - intense hockey...It's that way today as it was years ago.

This is/was my concern when the whole cracking down on head shots began; not that it doesn't have it's merits, but when a good number of impartial viewers such as myself see this as a clean hit (albeit a tad late - hence the intereference pen) yet an injury had occurred - there'll be the looming chance of a suspension.

Wasn't blindsided, wasn't from behind, no charging...If an injury hadn't taken place we wwouldn't be having this discussion...The league is suspending Rome more for the injury than the hit IMO.

you're probably right about the reasoning behind the suspension, but I don't think it makes this hit any more "ok"... it was a dirty hit and warranted the punishment it got.

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It took me several views of the clip to really get a good handle on what happened, and I've got to admit I've switched sides because of it. First off, the 3 stride thing mentioned in the thread is wrong. Rome took 2 "steps" to come to a halt and then drove (kinda jumped) into Horton. No strides at all. Second, it's pretty borderline to call it a blindside hit. I understand "blindside" to mean something roughly perpendicular to the shoulders. Rome comes in at a 45. If Horton is looking forward instead of admiring his pass, he sees Rome coming. That's not blindside. The point of impact looks to be something close to shoulder-to-collarbone, so I'm not sure you can even say it's a blow to the head. Horton probably took more damage from bouncing the back of his head off the ice than the actual hit, but that's certainly conjecture.

The puck's long gone, so it's interference. We've seen 5 minute interference calls, and this one probably qualifies given the nastiness. So we've got that. The hit is undeniably illegal.

Add it all up and you've got an illegal hit (which negates any Chara comparisons), and you could spin a pretty good case for "intent to injure". Although it's not "right", you've got a scrub taking out a star, which will tip the scales some. I come up with 1 game, maybe 2 max. 4 games seems excessive to me.

that's what i think too. i don't think the head bore the brunt of the hit, and it was the head bouncing off the ice that probably did more damage, which can happen even from a clean hit. i'm not suggesting that this hit is clean, but he definitely was late. it's a late hit with really bad consequences.

i'm wondering if this may or may not move the league closer to banning all hits to the head. i remember reading an article where Lidstrom he isn't in favor of that, because then you'd have players just skating with their heads down all the time.

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you're probably right about the reasoning behind the suspension, but I don't think it makes this hit any more "ok"... it was a dirty hit and warranted the punishment it got.

Well - this is where you - me - and others agree to disagree ;)

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To me thats just a late,late hit.....the puck was way up the side boards & Horton had nothing to do with the play anymore. I feel if they would have severely punished these types of hits earlier in the last few years there would be a lot fewer concussed players today.....once a guy gets rid of the puck he is out of the play & it shouldn't be open season on him.....most of Scott Stevens hits were of this nature & it should have been stopped then,instead of being praised. Now a lot of key players are getting concussions & a lot of them never return to their original selves on the ice. I like a hard hit as much as the next guy, but these Torres kinda hits have to be stopped or the game will become like UFC in nature.

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you're probably right about the reasoning behind the suspension, but I don't think it makes this hit any more "ok"... it was a dirty hit and warranted the punishment it got.

I'm gonna have to agree. It doesn't matter what the reason the NHL suspended him, either for the hit or the injury. They go hand in hand for me. Rome makes an illegal hit which knocks Horton out of the playoffs, he deserves to miss as well. People are saying, "well if horton was looking forward..." But I've yet to see someone flip it. Had Rome not stepped up and made a late hit, none of this is going on either.

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I think the league got it right. Clear violation of the rule.

Eventhough most of you wont agree with this next statement, I believe it is OK to take Rome out for the rest of the playoffs as he is not an impact player for VAN and he will be easily replaced by your pick of the remaining Van D-men. This suspension also protects Rome himself against retaliation and possible injury to himself. Rome doesnt seem like a bad guy, just a fast play in a fast game.

I just cant wait for next season when Shanny is calling the shots, then I wont have to read the countless threads on s***ty disciplinary rulings on LGW as Im sure most of you will be more supportive of Shanny than Campbell.

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To me thats just a late,late hit.....the puck was way up the side boards & Horton had nothing to do with the play anymore. I feel if they would have severely punished these types of hits earlier in the last few years there would be a lot fewer concussed players today.....once a guy gets rid of the puck he is out of the play & it shouldn't be open season on him.....most of Scott Stevens hits were of this nature & it should have been stopped then,instead of being praised. Now a lot of key players are getting concussions & a lot of them never return to their original selves on the ice. I like a hard hit as much as the next guy, but these Torres kinda hits have to be stopped or the game will become like UFC in nature.

2 things...

Reduce the size of both the shoulder, and elbow pads thus making them resemble what players wore in the 1970's/1980's.

Hip checking needs to make a strong comeback (although we'll most likely see a sharp increase in knee injuries).

haroldsnepsts and stevkrause like this

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Well - this is where you - me - and others agree to disagree ;)

fair enough and in all honesty, if this hit takes place in the neutral zone, I'd be more in agreement with your line of thought... granted, I'd still think it was a questionable hit, but not dirty, but entering the zone is a very vulnerable position when you don't have the puck, as you are forced to pay attention to so many other variables(stay onside, make sure the puck isn't turned over and you have to go the other way real quick, where the play is going, whether the puck is getting dumped, or carried deeper, etc...)

On any note, I personally think the league got it right and as touched on earlier, I really wish they'd apply the same rules to all players, regardless of their star status...

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2 things...

Reduce the size of both the shoulder, and elbow pads thus making them resemble what players wore in the 1970's/1980's.

Hip checking needs to make a strong comeback (although we'll most likely see a sharp increase in knee injuries).

Now these 2 points, you and I could not agree on more!

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Horton knows the d are back so how the hell does he not look up? I guess he assumed the d were backing up into the zone. Plus I think he was looking to maybe get a pass back from Lucic right away and not so much looking to be onsides or admiring his pass. A little late maybe but it's really hard to see if contact was to the head or not. Looks like another case of injury determining punishment. Oh well...

esteef

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Horton was watching his own pass. His head was up, he was skating forward, and he was watching the player he'd just passed to. Rome's hit was late by only a second, perhaps even a bit less. The hit wasn't from Horton's blindside, and it wasn't a hit to Horton's head. The damage was done by the manner in which Horton hit the ice.

The penalty was for interference. It was not a charge. A charge is when a player takes more than three strides toward another before hitting the latter. Watch the replay.

In any event, Rome has no history of suspension, and because the hit didn't violate the blindside rule and wasn't a hit to the head, I doubt he'll get more than one game. That Horton got so badly injured is just bad luck; many players have taken that hit and gotten back up.

You don't think it was from the blindside? To me it looked like a lateral blindside hit where the head was the principal point of contact.

As I said another thread, this is a situation where Horton was watching his pass, but because he's about to gain the zone he's likely watching to stay onsides. When the pass is on his teammate's stick, you can see Horton start to accelerate into the zone. Yes he should've had better awareness, but this isn't as simple as "keep your head up kid." He's trying to stay onside and the hit was late. As Doug Weight said, after the puck is gone like that you start to relax and make the next move.

Horton knows the d are back so how the hell does he not look up? I guess he assumed the d were backing up into the zone. Plus I think he was looking to maybe get a pass back from Lucic right away and not so much looking to be onsides or admiring his pass. A little late maybe but it's really hard to see if contact was to the head or not. Looks like another case of injury determining punishment. Oh well...

esteef

With the video review they counted it at 29 frames after the puck leaves Horton's stick. 30 frames of video is a full second. The NHL apparently uses up to a half a second as a sort of buffer as to what's not late.

2 things...

Reduce the size of both the shoulder, and elbow pads thus making them resemble what players wore in the 1970's/1980's.

Hip checking needs to make a strong comeback (although we'll most likely see a sharp increase in knee injuries).

Absolutely agree.

Shanny should make guys where shoulder pads like his. :P

You shouldn't see knee injuries as long as the guys do it right and don't go Lebda submarine style.

Edited by haroldsnepsts
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I'd like to point out that you guys are wrong about what defines charging. The "3 step" bit is obsolete and no longer in use due to the changes in speed of the game. Here's the main bit on what defines charging in 42.1

Charging shall mean the actions of a player who, as a result of distance traveled, shall violently check an opponent in any manner. A “charge” may be the result of a check into the boards, into the goal frame or in open ice.

In other words, it's very subjective: if it looks like traveling to the viewers with a say in discipline, then it's charging. This assumes some sort speedy movement over a distance (regardless of strides) into another player for the sole intent of hard contact. Obviously, this doesn't come into play all the time; if it's called as such it's usually because the action has been deemed to be headhunting.

Meanwhile, it was definitely interference. Almost 2 seconds late, which if nothing else should be enough to back off the hit some. Throw in interference that late with heavy follow through like Rome's hit and you've got very obvious interference. Throw in the rulebook supporting disciplinary action for any interference and you've got a case for suspension. Throw in borderline blindside (Rome starts off his stride from a diagonal position to Horton, and while his initial movement was north-south, by the time he's impacted Horton his movement is almost directly east-west), possible charging, and unnecessary follow through and you've got a recipe for a healthy suspension.

I'm all for physical play and I love big hits... if they're clean. What Rome did was careless, dangerous, and just stupid. The rest of the playoffs is just fine.

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Boston lost a player for the remainder of the series because of deliberate action of Vancouver player. The league decided that this action was illegal. League cannot restore the balance in full since Horton is a better player than Rome. So suspending Rome for 4 games is the best they can do.

Otherwise why not just break an arm or a leg of an opponent's star player and take a 2 minute slashing minor.

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I already said earlier in this thread that I may have gone over the top suggesting it carry over AND I think they got it right with what they handed out...

I've been playing hockey for over 23 years, but the reason players need to keep their heads up, is to protect themselves - This does not exonerate someone who threw a dirty hit, because the receiving player didn't follow the golden rule.

The hit was illegal. However, Horton made it far worse on himself by completely zoning out. This is uncharacteristic of a hockey player to do, because they know that it will often lead to them being freight-trained.

Specifically to rule 48, fine, that very specific rule, with its wording, does not apply here. It doesn't mean that it wasn't still a play that needs to be removed and/or isn't directly connected to that exact type of play...

It was a late hit, but the injury was incidental.

There's no way Horton wasn't getting hurt on that hit - moot point.

This is a horribly arbitrary statement. It's also absolutely wrong.

Regardless of which side you're on, the league got the discipline on this one right.

Again with the arbitrary statements. Obviously several of us disagree with you. And do you know what's funny? If this had been, say, Chara instead of Rome, he'd have gotten one game, maximum. The fact that Rome is a depth defenseman made the severity of the suspension much greater.

The more I watch the video, the more I can see your argument on the charge, there are 2 clear strides (backwards, or forwards, each distinct motion still counts) but the 3rd one is murky... I'll admit when I'm wrong and on this account, I may be - however, I disagree completely on the "watching the pass" BS, you can even see Horton check the line and the linesman as he enters... he was in a helpless position and that hit needs to be given up, no matter how you cut it.

It was not charging. Not a chance.

Horton was watching his pass. As others have mentioned, he had passed forward to Lucic. If Lucic wasn't offside, then Horton certainly wasn't. And he wasn't in a helpless position--and note that players are often in helpless positions when they are hit legally--but rather simply took the hit far harder than he would otherwise because he stopped being aware of his surroundings. All hockey players must be aware of what's going on around them, else they risk being crushed. Had Horton seen the hit coming, chances are high that he would have taken it much more smoothly.

Back to the suspension as well - they got it right, period.

If you're going to make these kinds of statements so repeatedly, you'd be better off just blogging rather than starting a discussion thread.

I added this to the game thread, but I think it fits pretty much here too.

http://www.vancouver...3011/story.html

I disagree with that. I think the Canucks just stopped skating and played a bad game in the 2nd and 3rd. Luongo was mediocre and Thomas was excellent.

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It was not charging. Not a chance.

I disagree, it was charging, by my interpretation of a subjective rule rather than a numerical quota that no longer exists either in the rulebook or in the way the officials call the game. Want to disagree with me? It's subjective. And ultimately subject to the people who run the disciplinary stuff. I think it'd be fair to say that charging played a factor in their decision based upon the length.

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I disagree, it was charging, by my interpretation of a subjective rule rather than a numerical quota that no longer exists either in the rulebook or in the way the officials call the game. Want to disagree with me? It's subjective. And ultimately subject to the people who run the disciplinary stuff. I think it'd be fair to say that charging played a factor in their decision based upon the length.

My opinion is objective.

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