Nicklas Lidstrom HHOF Waiting Period

[Dimaline312000 51]

I think even Steve himself would disagree with you on that. Lids will go down as at least the 2nd best defenseman of all time, the absolute best of his generation, & a cornerstone in helping to grow the game from the perspective of European players. Should the HoF waive the waiting period for him? Absolutely they should. Will they though? I highly doubt it myself.

Not that I'm trying to start anything here but I know Steve Y would probably disagree with me on that point and Lidstroms facts and stats probably prove me way wrong but that's why I said it was my opnion. I know all of Liddy's accomplishments with the Wings, but I don't see him going into the HHOF Immeadiately. If you base it on what I've heard on this thread people seem to think that he's not even Canadian so he won't and that the Hall would only consider it if he were Canadian but Steve is Canadian and he still had to wait. So it's just my opnion nothing more whether I'm wrong or not it's still just my opnion.

He is substantially better than Stevie Y.

ONCE AGAIN IT'S JUST MY OPNION!!

[mjlegend 155]

He was never a top three alltime player, or a Leaf or a Hab, so no.

He's really the only reason to watch the NHL at this point.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

He's really the only reason to watch the NHL at this point.

I hope this wasn't serious.

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

I'd be surprised if they waved the waiting period for Lidstrom. Is he top 2-5 at his position? Sure, but he's not the only recent defenseman to go out with that kind of reputation (before Lids surpassed him in every way, Bourque used to be everyone's favorite vote for 2nd best all-time). Also, as others have stated, waving the waiting period has been virtually unheard of in recent years, despite many retired "no-brainer" candidates. However, of anyone set to retire in the near future, he's certainly the most deserving of that rare honor.

[55fan 5,133]

I'm going strictly off memory here, but didn't they say after Wayne that they weren't going to waive it ever again? If they did, Lids would be the most deserving, but I don't see them doing it.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Would be cool to see it happen, and I'm not really familiar with how balloting/time works etc., but I highly doubt they'd make an exception for Lidstrom even though he's a great player, or for anybody else in general.

[Red Wings Addict 787]

Jeez Eva, did Messier run over your dog or something?

I think Eva might be Gary Coleman in real life.

EDIT: Reference to...

Edited July 18, 2011 by Red Wings Addict

[Chicktube 1]

I hope this wasn't serious.

Agreed!

I think Eva might be Gary Coleman in real life.

i have to say every time i see your winged panda thing i laugh. haha

[IllinoisRedWingsFan 49]

No. After Wayne getting in early I can't see it happening again.

[9-HoweFan 2]

No, he's not Canadian.

Bingo!

[toby91_ca 620]

I'm going strictly off memory here, but didn't they say after Wayne that they weren't going to waive it ever again? If they did, Lids would be the most deserving, but I don't see them doing it.

Agreed.

The waiting period was waived for ten players deemed exceptionally notable, most recently Wayne Gretzky who was inducted in 1999. Following Wayne Gretzky's retirement, the Board of Directors determined that the waiting period would no longer be waived for any player except under "certain humanitarian circumstances."

I'm guessing the "humanitarian circumstances" would be if someone is dying or something.

The Board could always change this, but I don't see that ever happening, unless it's under new Board members and even then, unlikley.

I'd put the probability of Lids having the waiting period waived at 0.00%, I don't think there will even be a discussion about it.

[55fan 5,133]

If dying is the only way he gets in early, then I hope he has to wait the full 3 years.

[toby91_ca 620]

Mark Messier is overrated. He has two Hart trophies to his name, neither of which should have gone to him. People act like his leadership is generational because he said his team would win, and then he came out and scored a couple of goals. People act like the 1994 Cup doesn't happen without "The Guarantee" and that Messier was the most important player, when in reality he was at best the third-most important player. His ego destroyed a locker room in Vancouver, yet most people don't bother bringing that up when talking about him.

Harvey was a great defenseman. One of the best ever. But still not as good as Nick.

Eva, sometimes I agree with your "opinions", sometime I don't and I don't have a problem with that. But what I'm not sure you realize is that those are your "opinions", they are not "facts" - do you confuse these two things often? (I know you don't, I'm just saying).

When you state that Messier should have never won either of his Hart trophies...well, the people actually voting for the award disagree with that "opinion" and for some unknown reason, they are selected as voters rather than you.

Just another example, your statement that Harvey was great, but not as good as Nick, well, that really isn't a "fact" as I know of several people that rate him higher, Bourque as well. Personally, I have Orr at #1, then 2-4 I have Nick, Bourque and Harvey, not in necessarily in that order. My point is that several people will have Harvey and Bourque ahead of him and it's not that absurd of an opinion. At the end of the day, Nick's Norris trophies probably get him to #2 though in my mind.

[xtrememachine1 795]

Late to the discussion on this, but unless the committee is like, "No one gets in before the waiting period starting now", there's no way Lidstrom shouldn't be in right away. I'm not saying it because I'm a Wings fan either. The numbers, the trophies, the accomplishments both in the NHL and international are there. He's arguably the best defenseman ever, he was the most dominant player in hockey for at least a decade. If he doesn't get in right away, they should just do away with waiving the waiting period. Lidstrom is absolutely in that elite class of player that is greater than great. Without a doubt.

[toby91_ca 620]

Late to the discussion on this, but unless the committee is like, "No one gets in before the waiting period starting now", there's no way Lidstrom shouldn't be in right away. I'm not saying it because I'm a Wings fan either. The numbers, the trophies, the accomplishments both in the NHL and international are there. He's arguably the best defenseman ever, he was the most dominant player in hockey for at least a decade. If he doesn't get in right away, they should just do away with waiving the waiting period. Lidstrom is absolutely in that elite class of player that is greater than great. Without a doubt.

Look above regarding my post on the 3-year waiting period.....but even if it was still available, I'd be on the fence. In my lifetime, there has only been 3 guys to have it waived (Orr, Lemieux and Gretzky). A lot of people have them as the 3 best players all-time. With that as "my" history, it's not as simple to just lump Lidstrom in there, as great as he was/is.

Just a nit on your comments though when you say that his numbers, trophies and accomplishments in the NHL and international are there...well, to be honest, if it wasn't for the trophies, we wouldn't even be talking about this. His numbers, etc. are excellent as well, hall worthy, but several players have better numbers and accomplishments...it's the 7 Norris trophies as the reason we are having the discussion.

[paulwoodsfan 52]

This will not happen. it has happened only four times in four decades, and of those four, two (Howe and Gretzky) were widely considered the greatest player of all time when the decision was made, one (Orr) was unanimously considered the greatest defenceman of all time and the other (Lemieux) was widely considered the most talented player of all time. And the last three guys were generally considered superstars from the moment they arrived in the NHL.

As great as Lidstrom is, he has never been considered a "superstar" at any stage of his career. And his reputation as possibly/probably the second-best defenceman of all time emerged only in the last five or so years. If you had asked this question a decade ago, after he had already played 10 seasons, no one would have taken it seriously. At that point he wasn't even a surefire Hall of Famer.

Don't get me wrong, the guy is a guaranteed first-ballot selection. But to have the waiting period waived, a player will need to be of Gretzky-like stature almost from the moment he arrives, and for his entire career.

[rrasco 1,312]

As great as Lidstrom is, he has never been considered a "superstar" at any stage of his career. And his reputation as possibly/probably the second-best defenceman of all time emerged only in the last five or so years. If you had asked this question a decade ago, after he had already played 10 seasons, no one would have taken it seriously. At that point he wasn't even a surefire Hall of Famer.

I'm sorry, but did you just say Nick isn't a superstar?

[paulwoodsfan 52]

I'm sorry, but did you just say Nick isn't a superstar?

I did. IMO there have been only two players I would consider superstars in the last 30 years -- Gretzky and Lemieux. Before that there was Orr in the 1970s, Hull in the 1960s, Howe in the '50s and '60s and Richard in the '40s and '50s. All of those guys transcended the game itself and all of them also had particular attributes that set them apart from everyone else. Lidstrom absolutely has some attributes that set him apart. He is by far the greatest in history at controlling his stick and corralling loose pucks at the blueline, and he may also be the best ever at skating guys off the puck through exceptional positioning and anticipation. And of course he does pretty much everything else (except hammer opponents physically) exceptionally well. But IMO he does not transcend the game the way the others on the above list did. In the galaxy of stars Lidstrom is one of the brightest of all time, but IMO he is not a superstar.

[eva unit zero 271]

Jeez Eva, did Messier run over your dog or something?

As for the poster who said Lidstrom wasn't as good as Yzerman. Er, no. Yzerman was, at best the 3rd best center of his era. Lidstrom is, at worst the 2nd best defenceman of all time. Yzerman may mean more to Wings fans for lots of reasons, but no way is he a better player

No, I am just sick of the "Messier was one of the elite all-time players at everything" stuff that goes around when he was in my opinion a second-tier center with the likes of Oates, Francis, LaFontaine, and Turgeon. As for Yzerman being the third best center of his era... the two guys ahead of him are considered by virtually all hockey experts to be the top two centers of all-time. So any other "best of his era" center would be third-best. Hardly a good comparison. It's like saying Joe is the fifth-best left winger, and Rob is the seventh-best center, so clearly Joe is better. Is makes sense, except that there is so much depth at center that such a statement is silly.

They waived the requirement for Mario Lemieux, but not for Ray Bourque. Bourque was the undisputed #1 defenseman of his era when he retired. Lemieux was generally considered second to Gretzky, and that he possibly could have been greater if he had been able to stay healthy. So we're talking the best defenseman of the era, or the second best center.

Finally, I don't know that I necessarily agree with the "Lidstrom is so far above Yzerman" sentiment. As stated before, Yzerman had to contend with Gretzky and Lemieux. Yzerman was also underrated early in his career due to his team's lack of playoff success, despite the weak roster. It's the "Brad Park" argument. Brad Park was consistently the best defenseman in the league not named Bobby Orr (finished second to Orr four times in five years for the Norris) and then Denis Potvin, who Park finished second to twice. If Orr had not been in the league, it is entirely possible that Park wins the Norris in all six of those seasons, and goes from being "really good" to being "possibly the best ever" simply from the absence of someone who was better. If Gretzky and Lemieux are not in the league, Yzerman probably wins a couple of Hart trophies and at least one scoring title. Probably named first-team center a few times.

[Guest echos myron]

I want to take a dump on this thread.

[Konnan511 1,736]

ONCE AGAIN IT'S JUST MY OPNION!!

WAARRGGGAAARRBBBLLLEEEEE!!!!!

Nice to see you are the only one allowed to voice your opinion.

[Electrophile 3,554]

Why should the waiting period be waived? He's not dying, is he? Unless he's got a terminal illness that will end his life before the three years post-retirement are up, there's no good reason (that I can see) to waive it.

[Learn2LuvIt 245]

No way would the "Canadian Hockey Elite" waive or hastened the waiting period for a Swede. Never going to happen unless a death certain illness/injury. NEVER.